Hey, thanks for appealing! Since you've addressed the ban in points, i'm going to do so as well.
1.
Down syndrome and why i decided you've crossed the line.
Here's our ticket with relevant part that influenced my decision bolded out and seperated by new lines:
► Show Spoiler
From Ticket #7 during round 227809 on Terry:
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Log Begins ----
2024-04-25 17:46:02:
Ticket Opened by maxipat: mind explaining? [2024-04-25 17:45:12] Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) (Security Locker Room (72,139,2)) (Event #9)<br />
(WHISPER) "you ligger"
2024-04-25 17:46:29:
Reply from avaster: are we not allowed to say that? i thought specism is allowed
2024-04-25 17:47:21:
Reply from maxipat: as far as im concerned, the warden who you called a ligger is not even a lizard, it sounds like a poor try to disguise an n-word
2024-04-25 17:48:10:
Reply from avaster: its not a disguise to call anyone the n word lol, its specism language, its an acceptable slur . if you think that then im sorry, but you're wrong
2024-04-25 17:48:39:
Reply from maxipat: sure, ill ask for second hand opinions in adminbus
2024-04-25 17:49:16:
Reply from avaster: if you dont want me to do it to non lizard people thats really interesting to me because it happens all the time, although if you dont want me to do it, i wont do it. although my intentions were not a disguise as n word, thats a huge assumption
2024-04-25 17:49:44: Reply from maxipat: while im getting the second hand opinion, what about a mongoloid?
2024-04-25 17:51:08: Reply from avaster: if im not mistaken, mongaloid is just another word for someone with downs, its just like saying retard. i dont see the difference, as they're similar 'slurs', retard is ok but mongaloid isnt? it is a grey line
2024-04-25 17:54:36: Reply from maxipat: Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, DISABILITY, orientation or the like is not tolerated. If you're using retard as a synonym to "you have down syndrome haha" then its bannable as well.
2024-04-25 17:55:51: Reply from avaster: im not intentionally using it to insult someone's disability, its disgusting. i just thought that since retard is generally ok to use, mongaloid would be ok, too. since its the technical term, i let you know that was what it was. although we dont obviously use those words for that specific meaning
2024-04-25 17:56:46: Reply from avaster: personally, i dont see the difference between retard and mongaloid, how come one is ok to use, but the other isnt? my intention isnt to insult people with disabiliities, thats disgusting behaviour.
2024-04-25 17:57:08: Reply from avaster: its an honest mistake since the two are practically hand in hand, and if you dont want me to use the word then that's fine, i wont
2024-04-25 17:57:17: Reply from maxipat: UN stopped allowing using term mongoloid when referring to peoples with down syndrome in 1965.
2024-04-25 17:58:45: Reply from avaster: im confused why are we talking about the united nations, this is a space station 13 server. how on earth was i supposed to know the united nations in 1965 stopped using the term. im pretty sure they stopped using the term retard as well yet we still use it on this server
2024-04-25 17:59:33:
Reply from avaster: how was I supposed to know this was a blacklisted word when we use retard? its an honest mistake, and im sorry for using it if it isn't allowed
2024-04-25 18:01:57:
Reply from avaster: if im genuinely going to get banned for the word mongaloid, yet retard is ok then im completely dumbfounded. this logic in my opinion doesn't make sense
2024-04-25 18:05:05:
Reply from avaster: sir am i going to get banned for this?
2024-04-25 18:15:26:
Reply from maxipat: okay, i got the 2nd hand opinion hence my silence - while retard or mongoloid on its own when you mean it as "idiot" isnt bad (headmin opinion) IT IS bad when you mean it in literal down syndrome sense. I also got a +1 from MSO that using ligger as a slur against someone is just trying to disguise n-word as a "allowed" slur, i think you also called him an autist [2024-04-25 17:44:27] Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) (Security Office (76,138,2)) (Event #17)<br />
"ince" which is additionally frowned upon by the host, on top of that i got 3 admins and a headmin opinion that the way youre malding at them, while its usually allowed is crossing rule 1 of being a toxic dick. I'm gonna put a 1 week ban for r1 and r11 combined. You can appeal on forums if you think it's too harsh or unfair.
2024-04-25 18:18:15:
Reply from avaster: man no one means retard or mongaloid, atleast i dont targetted toward people of disbility. i ltierally have a brother who has autism. and how come ligger is only specifically allowed against lizards? how on earth was i, or any player supposed to know this? and rule 1 being a dick, im being stunned by security to be a clown and accused of being a racist by the admins, im obviously upset....
2024-04-25 18:19:58:
Reply from avaster: you're giving me a week ban for things every single player does, you might as well ban the whole server. i actually cant believe this
2024-04-25 18:20:33: Client disconnected
2024-04-25 18:20:34: <a>Maxipat</a>/(Mei Fumiwara) has created a temporary 7 days server ban for Avaster.
2024-04-25 18:20:35: Resolved by Maxipat
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No Further Messages ----
This ticket can be viewed:
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.1.18.1
Both mongoloid and retard, as you've correctly pointed out aren't outright banned. You can get away with calling someone a retard and not suffer major consequences apart maybe getting your ass kicked IC-ly. (Mongoloid is a bit trickier, because online, retard is commonly used as a synonym to idiot, while the same isn't true for mongoloid, so you should be extra prepared to defend your case when admins possibly ask you about it.) What crossed the line was your explanation, how you use BOTH as a synonym and a word that's supposed to target people's with down syndrome. You don't have to insult a person with actual down's syndrome using those to be bigoted, it's enough that you try to use that health condition against someone, same as if you called a non-gay person a faggot trying to demean them, that's not allowed.
avaster wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:00 pm
2.
Ligger - "...but my speech freedom!?"
Again, the ahelp but now cropped to only contain ligger discussion:
► Show Spoiler
2024-04-25 17:46:02: Ticket Opened by maxipat: mind explaining? [2024-04-25 17:45:12] Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) (Security Locker Room (72,139,2)) (Event #9)<br />
(WHISPER) "you ligger"
2024-04-25 17:46:29: Reply from avaster: are we not allowed to say that? i thought specism is allowed
2024-04-25 17:47:21: Reply from maxipat: as far as im concerned, the warden who you called a ligger is not even a lizard, it sounds like a poor try to disguise an n-word
2024-04-25 17:48:10: Reply from avaster: its not a disguise to call anyone the n word lol, its specism language, its an acceptable slur . if you think that then im sorry, but you're wrong
2024-04-25 17:48:39: Reply from maxipat: sure, ill ask for second hand opinions in adminbus
2024-04-25 17:49:16: Reply from avaster: if you dont want me to do it to non lizard people thats really interesting to me because it happens all the time, although if you dont want me to do it, i wont do it. although my intentions were not a disguise as n word, thats a huge assumption
MrStonedOne in peanut thread wrote:
if you use ligger in a context that seems out of place and more fitting for the n-word you are gonna have a bad time.
Using it on a human (regardless of skincolor) smells like you are just using it as a stand in the n-word, as a random insult to be thrown around to get a reaction. at that point it stops being speciesism and stops fitting under the exception for ic species-ism.
kieth4 in adminbus after i asked there for 2nd hand opinion wrote:
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/DjaH8NL.png)
(Ligger is an in universe thing if you're using it to replace actual slurs it's not good)
In this situation, you were being beaten up by a
human warden, so you've decided to start cycling through known to you slurs, one of them was "you ligger". When you're using specieism (as you've said) slurs against lizards against non-lizards, it's up to you to prove that you're not trying to mask a "n-word" there under pretense of specieism. Instead of trying to explain yourself, you decided to tell me that i'm wrong in my assumption, but gave no arguments for that except that apparently it happens all the time.
3.
Toxicity (of our server, our server)
Your game logs, cropped only to your spoken text, with login and logout (when you got banned) included:
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... nd-227809/
► Show Spoiler
[2024-04-25 17:22:02.985] GAME: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) Client Avaster/(Appo Martin) has taken ownership of mob Appo Martin(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Security Post - Medbay (56,75,2))
[2024-04-25 17:22:48.173] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "cunt" (Security Locker Room (71,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:26:11.240] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "yeah" (Cargo Bay (54,104,2))
[2024-04-25 17:31:25.018] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "fucking" (Security Office (77,133,2))
[2024-04-25 17:31:25.691] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "idiotr" (Security Office (77,133,2))
[2024-04-25 17:31:54.617] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "fuck you" (Security Locker Room (70,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:37:34.123] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "fuck you" (Security Post - Medbay (54,75,2))
[2024-04-25 17:41:48.833] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you're dead" (Security (71,129,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:11.066] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you're" (Security (78,130,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:12.012] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "warden" (Security (78,130,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:13.045] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "retard" (Security (78,130,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:19.389] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "get this" (Security Office (75,134,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:20.525] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "retard" (Security Office (75,136,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:21.574] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "off me" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:23.054] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "hes" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:23.560] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "k-OW!" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:24.274] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "illing me" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:27.271] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "s-OW!" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:27.530] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "ince" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:29.015] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "the start" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:34.169] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "what are you fucking doing warden" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:38.514] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "he was killing me" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:41.788] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you fucking cunt" (Security Office (76,138,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:48.194] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you cant even demote you dumbfuck" (Security Locker Room (70,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:51.048] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "we're the same rank" (Security Locker Room (70,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:44:58.815] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "fucking mongaloid" (Security Locker Room (72,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:03.409] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "im dying to him" (Security Locker Room (72,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:08.919] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "he stunned me" (Security Locker Room (72,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:09.919] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "first" (Security Locker Room (72,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:12.631] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you ligger" (Security Locker Room (72,139,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:18.461] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "yeah" (Security Locker Room (69,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:19.936] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you only see" (Security Locker Room (69,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:21.595] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "what you see" (Security Locker Room (70,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:24.193] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "fucking retard" (Security Locker Room (71,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:28.523] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "look" (Security Locker Room (73,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:45:51.025] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "you stupid mother fucker" (Security Locker Room (70,140,2))
[2024-04-25 17:51:32.103] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "im in" (Medbay Treatment Center (62,79,2))
[2024-04-25 17:51:33.766] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "medbay" (Medbay Treatment Center (62,79,2))
[2024-04-25 18:03:32.681] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_3555) "sec" (Security Office (74,135,2))
[2024-04-25 18:18:45.849] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Appo Martin) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer (mob_4437)
[2024-04-25 18:18:45.900] GAME: Avaster/(Appo Martin) (mob_4437) Client Avaster/(Appo Martin) has taken ownership of mob Appo Martin(/mob/dead/observer) (Command Hallway (105,132,2))
[2024-04-25 18:20:33.905] GAME-ACCESS: Logout: Avaster/(Appo Martin)
It took you only 40 seconds since roundstart, when you started throwing insults left and right. No player should feel forced to be around a person that can't form a single sentence without throwing an insult or a slur inside. Yes, you can get angry at people, yes you can roleplay a mean character, but don't be a "fucking cunt" while doing that (read as: do something more in a round than insult every person you come across). The round took an hour, yet you only had maybe 3 log lines (single words) where you weren't trying to insult someone, out of 38 lines. Admins are here to make sure everyone is having a fun time playing a game, and what you've shown me in this round is a clear cut rule 1 "being a dick" case.
As to OOC toxicity, it didn't really affect my reasoning because i didn't feel as if you were toxic towards me, although the way i started the ticket leaves a sour taste in my mouth for what I apologize.
4.
What's next?
I can offer you a decrease in ban duration to 4 days instead of 7, as well as eventual re-wording of the note if you please so and have anything in mind. I'm not willing to fully unban you and i still believe what i put in the ban reason, you should take this time to think whether your time on server is something that makes this community a better place, and if not - think how you can change it, because
I wouldn't want to play with you around with how things are right now.