[peoplearestrange] PinkledWrenis

PinkledWrenis · Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:31 am

Banned for playing the game?
[peoplearestrange] unknown - banned for not having proper valid escaltion (?)

TL;DR and long winded

PinkledWrenis - Sun Head

[peoplearestrange] is the banning admin
Global temp ban
As a non-antag you have removed someone from the round by debraining them without valid escaltion to you whilst ignoring any other routes of valid roleplay when sec initally ignored you(didn't even attempt to take teh critted/morphined body to security). Judge/Jury/Executioner

1440 minutes

17:20 US EST
TL;dr I an MD, CMO blatently beating people to death and crit, security arrested, released him very shortly after, he returns continues with the murdering, morphine him, security comes, show them the evidence, leaves him in medical alseep in uncuffed, they dont come back, I debrain him, get bwoinked on the way to robotics.

Not as long winded as I thought it would be as the TL;DR his all the points. Ill try to go more in depth to more important points.

Having a convicted murderer released is the prerogative of security and the captain, however it is another thing if the released immediately begins murdering again and security does nothing despite evidence of the fact. Working in the same department with someone who has murdered at least twice and is not being brought to justice by security leaves you with two options, leave your department or do something about the traitor.

The first part of the discussion was about me not role playing which was untrue and shortly dismissed. It was then all about 'appropriate action' of which he would only say that I should have cable cuffed him(the CMO) and brought him to security.

Ill get to the ban 'points' now.

"As a non-antag you have removed someone from the round by debraining... "
I debrained to force borg an antag.

"...without valid escaltion to you whilst ..."
You're supposed to watch traitors kill people and take no action or have any response?

"...ignoring any other routes of valid roleplay when sec initally ignored you(didn't even attempt to take teh critted/morphined body to security)"
This says the most about the ban. He was unsure of the circumstances surrounding the CMO and other parties involved and did not check the logs to confirm the things I was saying. I didn't take an approved route of role play it seems. Also ignoring the fact that security was mostly dead.

"Judge/Jury/Executioner"
As it is with all traitors on the station who draw the attention of the crew. This is the most accurate thing about the ban.

I was short at first with peoplearestrange because I did not expect to get bwoinked over something that was IC and within the rules of the server. I did apologize shortly into our discussion.

Why you think you should be unbanned: Peoplearestrange didn't go over the logs with me to show that I had done everything IC and with good reason. Maybe he did after the ban, but not before. The ban should be completely removed or greatly shortened with an explanation as to why it isn't removed

peoplearestrange · Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:06 am

Ok here we go, for the 24hour ban here is my explanation and break down of points as best I can. Of course I welcome other opinion from anyone who cares to look through the stuff.

PinkledWrenis wrote:Having a convicted murderer released is the prerogative of security and the captain, however it is another thing if the released immediately begins murdering again and security does nothing despite evidence of the fact. Working in the same department with someone who has murdered at least twice and is not being brought to justice by security leaves you with two options, leave your department or do something about the traitor.

Of course, that isnt the issue as I said in game.

PinkledWrenis wrote:The first part of the discussion was about me not role playing which was untrue and shortly dismissed.

Im not sure if any of this is roleplaying, but I guess at least you were talking to people.

Spoiler:

PinkledWrenis wrote:It was then all about 'appropriate action' of which he would only say that I should have cable cuffed him(the CMO) and brought him to security.

I still think given his drugged state, that would have been pretty reasonable.

PinkledWrenis wrote:"As a non-antag you have removed someone from the round by debraining... "
I debrained to force borg an antag.

Who was already knocked out from morphine

Spoiler:

So probably could have just been forceably handed over to security/the captain at that point, or even ANYONE else of authority.

PinkledWrenis wrote:"...without valid escaltion to you whilst ..."
You're supposed to watch traitors kill people and take no action or have any response?

You attacked first, you are a doctor NOT the law, you shouldnt be running into battle or "hunting down antags" which is effectively what you did here.

Spoiler:

PinkledWrenis wrote:"...ignoring any other routes of valid roleplay when sec initally ignored you(didn't even attempt to take teh critted/morphined body to security)"
This says the most about the ban. He was unsure of the circumstances surrounding the CMO and other parties involved and did not check the logs to confirm the things I was saying. I didn't take an approved route of role play it seems. Also ignoring the fact that security was mostly dead.

I didnt check the logs as I watched it play out infront of me whilst observing, backed up by another admin observing.
As I have said multiple times, the issue is not what you did before, the issue is with you removing someone from the round permanently by de-braining them, not as an antag and with no authority and no real roleplay to make those actions reasonable.
I have now checked the logs and I still feel correct in my analysis of the situation.

PinkledWrenis wrote:"Judge/Jury/Executioner"
As it is with all traitors on the station who draw the attention of the crew. This is the most accurate thing about the ban.

I'm not sure what you're are saying here? Of course traitors get the run of the mill because they are there to provide conflict and to make the game move forward, otherwise rounds would be very boring. However equally if everyone is a traitor and can do what a traitor can it quickly becomes a deathmatch and very little RP happens. This gets extremely boring extremely quickly.

PinkledWrenis wrote:I was short at first with peoplearestrange because I did not expect to get bwoinked over something that was IC and within the rules of the server. I did apologize shortly into our discussion.

You did, and I appreciate that. I was short as well and I apologise for that.

PinkledWrenis wrote:Why you think you should be unbanned: Peoplearestrange didn't go over the logs with me to show that I had done everything IC and with good reason. Maybe he did after the ban, but not before. The ban should be completely removed or greatly shortened with an explanation as to why it isn't removed

I have no go over the logs as well having had observed the round and I believe your actions were and are still unjustified.

PinkledWrenis · Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:39 am

"Im not sure if any of this is roleplaying, but I guess at least you were talking to people."

At least I tried to. Hard to role play without dialogue between two people. Only people I got what might be considered a reponse was from the AI and a sentient runtime.

"You attacked first, you are a doctor NOT the law, you shouldnt be running into battle or "hunting down antags" which is effectively what you did here."

I did no hunting. I did morphine him and then a moment later disarm him when sec arrived. I should be more passive from now.

"So probably could have just been forceably handed over to security/the captain at that point, or even ANYONE else of authority."

Security was unreliable and unavailable, if you were observing you know this. By your logic the only person of authority to handle a situation of security would be the HoS, captain, security, and possibly the HoP. I could have wandered and found the HoP or captain maybe or I could have done what I did and continue on with my job as normal while the CMO was now a productive, friendly member of the crew.

"I still think given his drugged state, that would have been pretty reasonable."

In other circumstances I would agree. When security is oblivious and non responsive though it is different.

They were borged and still part of the round. I would understand more if I left them dead in a closet but that was not the case. It seems however that I'm going to have to eat this ban. Thank you for responding quickly.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:14 am #143165

Since when can't crewmembers fuck over antags who are going around killing people?

I thought rule 4 specifically states that non-antags can do whatever they want to antagonists.

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:27 am

Non-antags are freely allowed to kill antagonists, regardless of the situation.

PinkledWrenis · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:31 am

No rules were broken. I believe this one of those 'admins discretion' type of bans. The only rule I could see that he would interpret as broken would be rule 1, ignoring the circumstances though.

peoplearestrange · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:32 am

TechnoAlchemist wrote:Non-antags are freely allowed to kill antagonists, regardless of the situation.

When did this become a rule?
(If its a rule I think that just plain stupid...)

The issue, again, is not that they killed them, effectively unprovoked, but that they purposely took the time to debrain them and permanently (within most circumstances) remove them from the round.

PinkledWrenis · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:35 am

I went immediately to borg them. I believe the CMO was still borged by someone else while I was incapacitated. It was also not unprovoked. What was to stop me from being next on his list? I was proactive and damn sure the CMO was a traitor before I acted. Braining only takes a few seconds, just as a side note.

peoplearestrange · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:44 am

Unbanned.

PinkledWrenis · Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:49 am

Thank you peoplearestrange. I didn't mean to cause a ruckus, I honestly just felt that ban wasn't justified by your own reason that I was taking him out of the round permanently when I was trying to borg him to keep him in the round, albeit with laws so he cannot continue to harm. I hope that there is no bad blood between us and that we can have a good time playing together.

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:08 am #143175

[Gah I spent too long typing and reviewing this earlier before I actually posted it, but I will anyways]

Hey there, I was the CMO round, and I thought I'd explain my point of view.

So it started off like normal, and I was wandering around doing some crap, when the janitor had tried to assassinate me via explosion, so whether I was a tator or not in self defense I had the right to kill him if I couldn't capture him effectively.
I took him down in the bar, but his crony, some atmos tech dragged off his body away, and I chased fighting him.

That is when you and some random other guy were there, without knowing why I was fighting, joined in against me assuming I was a traitor. Fair enough.

After you guys downed me security showed up and revived me and took me away. While in security I talked to the captain and he released me since it was in self defense and such.

Then after returning to medbay, you guys had started cloning the janitor because originally sec & you would have thought I did it without warrant, so right after he got out of it I killed him again. Essentially the same as if you didn't clone him in the first place.

Thats when you strode in validantly, syringe gun in hand. Shooting me down as I yelled for security. You did know I was released and that there was no reason you should have shot me, but oh well.

Then instead of turning me into security while I was drugged for 20 minutes (plenty of time), you forcefully debrain me without telling it to anyone else, because you're a "vigilante"

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:56 pm

if the cmo was antag he doesn't have a right to ahelp getting dunked. that's one of the rules this server is founded on or else every round would be bogged down with "some guy killed me cuz i killed someone else 30 minutes ago and someone reported it! how could he have KNOWN THIS IS AN OUTRAGE REVIVE ME IMMEDIATELY AND SPAWN ME A MAULER"

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:40 pm #143250

Sometimes that doesn't apply, if you're at the start of the round and some nerd just runs in and drops you with a fire axe out of nowhere that's not cool. Obviously that doesn't apply here, but still.

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:23 pm #143263

Super Aggro Crag wrote:if the cmo was antag he doesn't have a right to ahelp getting dunked

Aside from the fact I didn't actually ahelp and PAS did it on his own, if they don't have good reason to assume they're an antag or are doing stuff for just validhunting, I'd say they do.

T007 · Post by **T007** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:50 pm #143268

I was the atmos tech that pulled the janitor away from the CMO, I was in the bar with other people and heard someone getting beaten and opened the theatre airlock, and dragged the janitor to medbay

the CMO followed and beat me in medbay with his baton (and also tried to drag me into maint), but I ran back into medbay and he was stopped by the other crew, after I was healed by the clown I saw that the captain was reviving the CMO, I left medbay and didn't see what happened next

considering the CMO never tried to explain self defense or claim the janitor was a traitor before attacking (and apparantly killed the janitor again after being revived and released), the crew that witnessed his actions were completely justified in assuming he is an antag or acting like one, the OP should not have been banned in my opinion

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:11 pm

Bawhoppennn wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:if the cmo was antag he doesn't have a right to ahelp getting dunked
Aside from the fact I didn't actually ahelp and PAS did it on his own, if they don't have good reason to assume they're an antag or are doing stuff for just validhunting, I'd say they do.

you murdered a guy twice. that's a good reason to assume you're an antag. pinkled wrenis deserves an apology for this i think.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:33 pm #143277

Bawhoppennn wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:if the cmo was antag he doesn't have a right to ahelp getting dunked
Aside from the fact I didn't actually ahelp and PAS did it on his own, if they don't have good reason to assume they're an antag or are doing stuff for just validhunting, I'd say they do.

Did you tell pinkled why you killed the janitor?

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:46 pm #143278

Didn't we do away with this stupid, casual, hug box mentality? Are we literal children? How can there be a fucking sense of danger and paranoia if admins take it upon themselves to treat the players like fucking children and make sure people can be cloned or arent killed in most situations because GOD FORBID anyone possibly get removed from a round, especially if they're an antag.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:22 pm #143287

Or we can resolve this?

/tg/Station 13

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