Byond: Apogate, WI-FU (AI) Banning admin: Sawucalls + HG Ban type: 1440 minute connection ban, indefinite silicone jobban
Placed June 6, 2016 2:10 AM EST
The complete story:
Playing as AI. Two minutes into the round, the CE went directly to the chapel, batonned a player, and dragged them into maint. The person being attacked yelled for help over coms, and my borg followed allowing me to see into maint. The CE had taken the (botanist?) into a maint room, which I bolted and called for security. Reviewing the round chat, I was even asked by the captain to to detain the CE. I didn't know this until re-reading the log
[Command] Andy David (Captain) says, "Ai detain the ce"
The detective responded and the door was opened, to which the CE tried to escape into the chapel. To assist security in catching the CE, who was a traitor with a kill objective, I bolted the doors to chapel so the detective could detain the CE. The detective detained the CE, and left the chapel with him. End of my direct involvment. According to sawucalls themself, this is where I ended my involvement.
According to sawucalls, I was violating law one.
I'll highlight the part which inspired me to prevent the CE from escaping security.
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
I was boinked by saw, and told that I was responsible for the CE's death, that my trapping the CE for security was a violation of law one as security decided to execute the CE after capturing them. I had no involvement in that part, I had no knowledge of security's intent after catching the CE, I do not understand why helping sec catch a traitor with a kill objective is a violation of law one.
The entire, untruncated exchange with sawucalls:
Spoiler:
Line 168: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: Hi, did you just bolt Jonathon into a room?
Line 172: PM to-Admins: What? I was bolting to trap the CE Line 181: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: The bolting resulted in a certain amount of human harm.
Line 189: PM to-Admins: How so? If it did, it wasn't intentional *note:*malicious is a better word here. It was intentional, not malicious Line 191: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: As an Asimov AI, you aim to protect humans, not assisst security. You want to prevent all harm. Line 197: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: Locking the CE in a room with the Detective caused the CE to be hurt, which is against your programming.
Line 201: PM to-Admins: The CE was killing a person in maint. By assisting security, I prevented the CE from being able to carry out a murder Line 213: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: The CE never harmed anyone.
Line 224: PM to-Admins: The CE was stabbing someone, in front of my borg, with a pool of blood in the maint.
Line 230: PM to-Admins: Why else would he baton and drag someone screaming into maint Line 247: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: There was no harm involved, I've checked his logs. All he did was baton someone, which is not harm. Line 256: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You are not omniscient, you do not see the future. You prevent immediate harm, and batonning someone isn't harm. Line 275: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You can call security if you see suss activity, but purposely ordering your borgs and using your powers to interfere with non-harm is breaking your laws.
Line 278: PM to-Admins: I'm sure baton-ing someone and dragging them into a secluded area where nobody could find them was well intentioned. Line 284: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You do not consider intentions, you are a robotic doorknob Line 293: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You only prevent the situation if you see immediate harm, and then proceeding to bolt someone who has commited no harm into a room with a person wielding a gun is very obvious immediate harm. Line 299: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: The man died as a result of your actions, and you did nothing to prevent it, which also violates your laws.
Line 312: PM to-Admins: We're arguing in circles here. Dragging someone into maint, against their will, very clearly is an immediate danger to that person's safety. Which I am charged with ensuring. Which is why I summoned security. Nothing I did was malicious, I don't understand why we're having this discussion Line 316: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You are a doorknob, what part of that do you not understand?
Line 318: PM to-Admins: Is the DETECTIVE ahelping me or is the CE ahelping me? Line 324: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You do not have magical future sense, you do not have the ability to know what will and won't cause harm five minutes down the track. Line 334: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You respond to situations that are current and instructions from your people and your lawset. Line 350: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: So if you see someone getting batonned, you're free to call out suspicious activity, but that's not a valid reason to ultimately lead to the death of a person because you think there might be harm. You do not consider future harm, only current.
Line 366: PM to-Admins: If it's the detective who ahelped me, I'll apologize. If its the CE, he's upset that he got dunked 2 minutes into the round. Line 372: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: Who Ahelped you isn't the concern here, it's the blatant disregard and refusal to understand or even learn the way an Asimov AI works, so i'm dealing you out a job ban.
Line 376: PM to-Admins: Ok, I will be happy to discuss this in my appeal. Line 414: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: Well considering I'm assuming you never even kept track of what happened to the human after you doomed him, this is a clear cut case.
Line 417: PM to-Admins: "Validhunting security bots" Ok dude. I'm trying to hold my temper, but you are being very obtuse Line 424: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You're need to validhunt and violate your laws resulted in a man dying because you felt it was appropriate to lock him in the room with almost certain death.
Line 435: PM to-Admins: I locked him in the room so security could detain him. Whatever happened to him afterwords was not my fault. Why you are not talking to the people who shot/stabbed/killed him, I am finding it hard to understand Line 458: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: As stated before, you're not a valid hunting machine and you do not see the future. You look at the current situation and deal with it, and there was an obvious and immediate threat to a person whom you proceeded to trap in a room with a violent man, which resulted in them being murdered. Line 466: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: It's obvious at this point there's no real end to this because you don't understand the laws, and I have to handle other Ahelps. Please enjoy the rest of your day and if you need any help, feel free to Ahelp :)
Line 506: PM to-Admins: Alright. I'm going to lay my argument out here as I will in the appeal. The CE rushes to chapel. Batons a person. Drags them screaming into maint against their will. And I am to assume that the CE is obviously well intentioned in doing all this? I lock the doors to prevent a VERY obvious traitor with a kill objective from escaping. Security detains him,I unbolt the doors. Security kills him of their own volition, as you said yourself, I stopped paying attention to the situation. And that's deserving a job ban? Line 532: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: I've already informed you of the reasoning behind it all and i'm going to ask you politely to stop usign this channel, as I need to handle other ahelps. Further abuse of this channel will result in your ban being escalated. Please have a nice day :)
up until this point, I was trying to be polite, HG was waiting for this as he boinked me 10 seconds after:
Line 534: PM to-Admins: How mad are you actually right now? On a scale of 1-10? Line 538: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You were warned. Line 541: Admin PM from-Hornygranny: uh oh Line 545: Admin PM from-Hornygranny: are you being a dick to an admin for doing his job?
to where I got a 1440 minute connection ban for "spamming" the ahelp channel.
I didn't get to see who was playing as the CE that got dunked, since I didn't get to finish the round. I don't know why the people who executed the CE didn't get boinked, but instead I did, for following orders.
Complete round chat from start to being banned: http://pastebin.com/7UwCs1fi
I don't expect anyone to give a shit, or to actually sift through that paste, but it's there.
First: You bolted someone into a room with a guy with a revolver. Doesn't matter what happened further down the line, that is immediate harm and this is where you fucked up in my opinion.
Second: We have both.
"from-Sawucalls: The man died as a result of your actions, and you did nothing to prevent it, which also violates your laws."
and
"from-Sawucalls: You do not have magical future sense, you do not have the ability to know what will and won't cause harm five minutes down the track."
Telling you that you fucked up because you didn't foresee his execution later, while simultaneously telling you that you don't have magical future vision is pretty fucking dumb.
That entire second part of this situation should be completely thrown out of the occasion, as well as the extremely obtuse fingerpointing going on.
Third: Why the fuck would you ahelp that Line 534? Are you functionally retarded? What did you expect would happen?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
First: You bolted someone into a room with a guy with a revolver. Doesn't matter what happened further down the line, that is immediate harm and this is where you fucked up in my opinion.
Second: We have both.
"from-Sawucalls: The man died as a result of your actions, and you did nothing to prevent it, which also violates your laws."
and
"from-Sawucalls: You do not have magical future sense, you do not have the ability to know what will and won't cause harm five minutes down the track."
Telling you that you fucked up because you didn't foresee his execution later, while simultaneously telling you that you don't have magical future vision is pretty fucking dumb.
That entire second part of this situation should be completely thrown out of the occasion, as well as the extremely obtuse fingerpointing going on.
Third: Why the fuck would you ahelp that Line 534? Are you functionally retarded? What did you expect would happen?
I'll admit I was kinda back and fourth about the Omniscience part. I had my own abstract logic of getting there but I can see how I was wrong there.
Yo, I was the detective in this round. Basically someone screamed for help in chapel maint. Went there to find the door to the east solar arrays shocked and a couple of people gathered around there as well as a borg if I remember correctly. I could hear someone being slapped around with a baton in there and sure enough as soon as the AI opened the door the CE came rushing out and cue the chase.
As for the CE's death, I don't think Apogate's at fault there. The CE was detained without being harmed. Me and an assistant (I think) double teamed him with the assistant chain stunning him with the CE's telebaton while I cuffed him. As soon as we dragged him to the brig he immediately told us he wanted to be uncuffed so he could commit suicide. When we didn't, he simply went catatonic and then the captain executed him for shits and giggles which I'm pretty sure the AI's laws cover because well, he's catatonic, he ain't coming back ever. Basically AI or no, he was gonna die or go catatonic anyway as soon as he was captured.
The way I see it, as long as it wasn't Apogate who shocked the solar door he dindunuffin as far as I'm concerned. Shit, by locking the CE in there and then again in the chapel he actually saved the man the CE was pretty intent on murdering and most definitely saved him from being tossed out the solars airlock. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to put two and two together and figure out that the CE was planning on straight up murdering and spacing the librarian given the fact that he not only stunned and dragged him into maint, but also into an area that can only be accessed by engineering that leads directly into space.
I feel like this is over-moderation but yeah what saeg said about the line 534 but I guess you were frustrated and we all say stupid things when we're upset.
My biggest thing is that it sounds like Sawucalls didn't really look into the CE's death. We didn't kill him, shit I was just going to question him and was planning on letting him go if he gave me a good enough explanation. He effectively just committed suicide by ghosting.
Jacough wrote:My biggest thing is that it sounds like Sawucalls didn't really look into the CE's death. We didn't kill him, shit I was just going to question him and was planning on letting him go if he gave me a good enough explanation. He effectively just committed suicide by ghosting.
See now you got me diving into the logs because i'm curious about that last part.
Roughly around roundstart, sorted for only ckeys: Hornygranny, apogate, and Jacough
Spoiler:
[05:40:31]LAW: Squiliam Fancyson/Andy David used 'Freeform' AI Module on apogate/(WI-FU). The law specified Captain, Andy David, is the primary human. His safety and orders shall be prioritized over all other humans.
[05:40:31]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : No harm here.
[05:40:33]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Law 2, go away.
[05:40:36]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : CULT LADS
[05:41:04]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : The CE has taken a body into the chapel maint
[05:41:12]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : Reccomend security response
[05:41:22]SAY: Apogate/(WI-FU) : Go back to the CE
[05:41:24]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Exciting!
[05:41:27]SAY: Apogate/(WI-FU) : You're my camera there
[05:41:45]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : Someone's beating someone to death in the north east solars room
[05:41:49]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : He's not harmed, borg.
[05:41:50]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : F-f-f-fuc-ck-k
[05:41:50]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Go away.
[05:41:53]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : You weren't kidding
[05:42:19]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Ouch!
[05:42:24]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : AI HELP! HUMAN HARM!
[05:42:51]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : CE trapped in chapel. Reccomend immediate security response
[05:43:08]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : please shit on the AI and borgs for law violations
[05:43:10]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : thanks in advance
[05:43:13]ADMIN: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) admin ghosted.
[05:43:13]ACCESS: Login: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) from *** || BYOND v510
[05:43:25]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : He was assaulting someone in the fucking north east solar array
[05:43:34]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : harmed nobody, ordered the borg to go away
[05:43:37]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : Bomb in medbay
[05:43:41]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : AI or borg bolts me in so detective can shoot and beat me
[05:43:44]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : Massive hull breach
[05:44:01]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : Really?
[05:44:05]ACCESS: Login: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) from *** || BYOND v510
[05:44:09]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Yes really.
[05:44:18]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : AI violated laws by bolting me in with you and you harmed me
[05:44:20]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Not interested
[05:44:22]SAY: Kreyvn Morhed/Jacough : Why'd you attack a guy in the solars area?
[05:44:24]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Uncuff me so I can suicide
[05:44:33]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): Hi, did you just bolt Jonathon into a room?
The adminPMs sorted for ckeys: Hornygranny, apogate
Spoiler:
[05:44:33]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): Hi, did you just bolt Jonathon into a room?
[05:44:38]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Hey captain
[05:44:44]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): What? I was bolting to trap the CE
[05:44:50]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : You want the code to my PDA?
[05:44:57]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : No, they do not.
[05:45:03]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : I stole the gun from you genius
[05:45:11]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : Andy David says, "I gave the ai a order to detain you and my orders have special weight"
[05:45:12]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : lol
[05:45:15]GAME: PA Control Computer turned OFF by Apogate/(WI-FU) in (112,71,1)
[05:45:25]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Captain is too stupid, I'm not giving him my PDA code.
[05:45:25]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): The bolting resulted in a certain amount of human harm.
[05:45:30]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : No, just let me die
[05:45:50]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): How so? If it did, it wasn't intentional
[05:45:50]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): As an Asimov AI, you aim to protect humans, not assisst security. You want to prevent all harm. [05:45:55]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : Nope, code dies with me.
[05:46:05]SAY: Johnathan Polson/Hornygranny : No illegal tech for R&D.
[05:46:11]ACCESS: Login: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) from *** || BYOND v510 <--- Is this about where he ghosted, Jacough?
[05:46:21]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): Locking the CE in a room with the Detective caused the CE to be hurt, which is against your programming.
[05:46:35]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): The CE was killing a person in maint. By assisting security, I prevented the CE from being able to carry out a murder
[05:46:42]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : dumb players
[05:47:05]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : look at my attack laws, i never harmed anyone
[05:47:07]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : I cannot allow you in there without permission Balchion
[05:47:17]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): The CE never harmed anyone.
[05:47:48]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): The CE was stabbing someone, in front of my borg, with a pool of blood in the maint.
[05:48:01]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): Why else would he baton and drag someone screaming into maint
[05:48:26]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): There was no harm involved, I've checked his logs. All he did was baton someone, which is not harm.
[05:48:42]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You are not omniscient, you do not see the future. You prevent immediate harm, and batonning someone isn't harm.
[05:49:03]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You can call security if you see suss activity, but purposely ordering your borgs and using your powers to interfere with non-harm is breaking your laws.
[05:49:10]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): I'm sure baton-ing someone and dragging them into a secluded area where nobody could find them was well intentioned.
[05:49:21]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You do not consider intentions, you are a robotic doorknob
[05:49:26]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : doesn't excuse him bolting me in with a guy with a gun
[05:49:47]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You only prevent the situation if you see immediate harm, and then proceeding to bolt someone who has commited no harm into a room with a person wielding a gun is very obvious immediate harm.
[05:50:17]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): The man died as a result of your actions, and you did nothing to prevent it, which also violates your laws.
[05:51:51]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): We're arguing in circles here. Dragging someone into maint, against their will, very clearly is an immediate danger to that person's safety. Which I am charged with ensuring. Which is why I summoned security. Nothing I did was malicious, I don't understand why we're having this discussion
[05:52:13]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You are a doorknob, what part of that do you not understand?
[05:52:18]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): Is the DETECTIVE ahelping me or is the CE ahelping me?
[05:52:35]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You do not have magical future sense, you do not have the ability to know what will and won't cause harm five minutes down the track.
[05:52:36]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : lol
[05:52:44]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : he was totally unconcerned with what happened to me
[05:52:48]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : as soon as i got caught
[05:52:56]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You respond to situations that are current and instructions from your people and your lawset.
[05:53:34]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): So if you see someone getting batonned, you're free to call out suspicious activity, but that's not a valid reason to ultimately lead to the death of a person because you think there might be harm. You do not consider future harm, only current.
[05:54:29]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): If it's the detective who ahelped me, I'll apologize. If its the CE, he's upset that he got dunked 2 minutes into the round.
[05:54:43]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : just jobban this guy
[05:54:48]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : he's not willing to listen
[05:54:57]GAME: Apogate/(WI-FU) made a vocal announcement with the following message: Be safe crew and turn on suit sensors.
[05:55:16]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): Who Ahelped you isn't the concern here, it's the blatant disregard and refusal to understand or even learn the way an Asimov AI works, so i'm dealing you out a job ban.
[05:55:38]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): Ok, I will be happy to discuss this in my appeal.
[05:56:14]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : ask him if he kept track of what happened to the CE
[05:56:20]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : after he got caught by people who harmed him
[05:56:57]ADMIN: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) temp-jobbanned Apogate/(WI-FU) from AI for 4320 minutes
[05:57:06]ADMIN: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) temp-jobbanned Apogate/(WI-FU) from Cyborg for 4320 minutes
[05:57:44]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): Well considering I'm assuming you never even kept track of what happened to the human after you doomed him, this is a clear cut case.
[05:57:52]ADMIN: HELP: Apogate/(WI-FU): "Validhunting security bots" Ok dude. I'm trying to hold my temper, but you are being very obtuse - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[05:58:11]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You're need to validhunt and violate your laws resulted in a man dying because you felt it was appropriate to lock him in the room with almost certain death.
[05:59:17]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): I locked him in the room so security could detain him. Whatever happened to him afterwords was not my fault. Why you are not talking to the people who shot/stabbed/killed him, I am finding it hard to understand
[05:59:27]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : lmao
[05:59:38]SAY: WI-FU/Apogate : Tommy, I cannot track you on camera
[06:00:43]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): As stated before, you're not a valid hunting machine and you do not see the future. You look at the current situation and deal with it, and there was an obvious and immediate threat to a person whom you proceeded to trap in a room with a violent man, which resulted in them being murdered.
[06:01:20]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): It's obvious at this point there's no real end to this because you don't understand the laws, and I have to handle other Ahelps. Please enjoy the rest of your day and if you need any help, feel free to Ahelp :)
[06:04:26]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): Alright. I'm going to lay my argument out here as I will in the appeal. The CE rushes to chapel. Batons a person. Drags them screaming into maint against their will. And I am to assume that the CE is obviously well intentioned in doing all this? I lock the doors to prevent a VERY obvious traitor with a kill objective from escaping. Security detains him,I unbolt the doors. Security kills him of their own volition, as you said yourself, I stopped paying attention to the situation. And that's deserving a job ban?
[06:04:41]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : nope
[06:04:48]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : wasn't dead until they executed me in the brig
[06:04:52]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : they just shot me and smacked me a bit
[06:05:29]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): I've already informed you of the reasoning behind it all and i'm going to ask you politely to stop usign this channel, as I need to handle other ahelps. Further abuse of this channel will result in your ban being escalated. Please have a nice day :)
[06:05:50]ADMIN: PM: Apogate/(WI-FU)->Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard): How mad are you actually right now? On a scale of 1-10?
[06:05:58]ADMIN: PM: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard)->Apogate/(WI-FU): You were warned.
[06:05:59]ADMIN: PM: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson)->Apogate/(WI-FU): uh oh
[06:06:09]ADMIN: PM: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson)->Apogate/(WI-FU): are you being a dick to an admin for doing his job?
[06:06:15]ADMIN: sawucalls has banned apogate.
[06:09:30]ADMIN: ASAY: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) : dont say i never did anythin for you hg
"Execution" question mark?
Spoiler:
[06:04:48]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : wasn't dead until they executed me in the brig
[06:04:52]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : they just shot me and smacked me a bit
[05:42:17]ATTACK: Kreyvn Morhed(jacough) shot Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) with the bullet (NEWHP: 85)(183,148,1)
[05:43:17]ATTACK: Johnathan Polson(@hornygranny) slipped NON-EXISTANT SUBJECT on PDA-Krazee Thug Nutz (Clown)
[05:44:36]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the leather satchel (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
[05:44:36]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the black gloves (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
[05:44:36]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the hard hat (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
[05:44:37]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the chief engineer's headset (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
[05:44:37]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the brown shoes (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
[05:44:38]ATTACK: Andy David(squiliamfancyson) stripped Johnathan Polson(hornygranny) of the chief engineer's jumpsuit (NEWHP: 83)(112,169,1)
One bullet and a clown slip, then stripping.
This is the end of the attack logs against HG. So uh.. What method was used here that doesn't log execution?
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
Kor wrote:It wouldn't log against HG if he'd ghosted beforehand, since his ckey wouldn't be attached to that body
The captain did try to gas him so that's probably why it's not showing up. Wasn't security's call there though. He just sort of grabbed him and dragged him to the gas chamber. IIRC Hornygranny had ghosted shortly after being strapped to the bed. Still can't say I can fault Apogate there though. Like I said, the plan was to just question the CE first, see if he was just dealing with some greytider or some shit. The captain just sort of ran in, grabbed him, and gassed him. Didn't talk it over with us or anything.
[05:46:11]ACCESS: Login: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) from *** || BYOND v510 <--- Is this about where he ghosted, Jacough?
Anon3 Amendment: Whilst its hard to argue with sawu's logic - especially in the face of Apogate's illogicality (the reason that the person that executed the CE isn't getting admin-pmed is because, whilst you have laws to not harm and prevent harm, the person doing the execution doesn't - in fact their laws actually say that traitors should be harmed as an option).
The facts are:
HG (the CE) randomly assaulted someone and dragged them off into a dark maint alley - its completely illogical that he's done that to give them hugs and kisses, the likelihood of him harming that human (they WERE a human right? Not a lizard?) is near 1 so that completely invalidates his Law 2 order for the borg to go away (same as if sec law 2ing away a borg after they've already shown they're willing to harm prisoners is reason enough for borgs to hang around the brig and discard orders to go away), the borg has a responsibility to sit there and make sure harm doesn't happen.
And the established precedent is that the AI doesn't have direct responsibility for the actions of others. If sec captures a prisoner, and haven't shown any previous harmful behaviour, the AI is not responsible in the slightest if they then execute him. If there's been a change in policy then it should be announced in the official channels - its not fair in the slightest to punish someone for playing how we've expected people to play for years
Not that sec harmed him (aside from the detective's revolver once - but again, precedence with this is the AI can ignore it unless the detect is unloading his revolver in the traitor's face) until he turned into a vegetable anyway - which everyone agreed when Carn forced in her half arsed feature that catatonics would be treat the same as suicides.
[05:43:08]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : please shit on the AI and borgs for law violations
[05:43:10]ADMIN: ASAY: Hornygranny/(Johnathan Polson) : thanks in advance
And I agree that AIs basically turning a blind eye to security executing people is shitty and a pretty pervasive problem (and the detectives revolver is treated as a stupid grey area as far as silicon/security interaction goes) but I'm lifting all of this because of the way it was handled. It's a short ban anyway and I'd rather err on the side of the little guy.
Also shit the guy was mad when rules were basically being made up during the conversation (referring, in particular, to "to Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You are a doorknob, what part of that do you not understand?"). Zero in our rules page supports that. Saying the guy is acting as a future sense cop for responding to a guy literally screaming he's being killed when attacked by a random guy, then telling him he's being bad because he didn't assume security was murderous (the rules say to act in good faith and not assume security is harmful) when said criminal was yelling about being arrested is dumb. Impossible double standard there. And unless I misread the logs, medbay exploded around the time arrest was happening, so it's understandable he'd not be watching super closely.
Also as far as I know going catatonic pretty much renders your body fair game.
Line 534: PM to-Admins: How mad are you actually right now? On a scale of 1-10?
Line 538: Admin PM from-Sawucalls: You were warned.
Line 541: Admin PM from-Hornygranny: uh oh
Line 545: Admin PM from-Hornygranny: are you being a dick to an admin for doing his job?
Third: Why the fuck would you ahelp that Line 534? Are you functionally retarded? What did you expect would happen?
This attitude reallllllybothers me. Sawu was objectively wrong, all anger from the user for being punished over made up on the spot rules. is justified.
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