[shadowlight] Cancer_Engine - Hear me out

[cancer_engine]

Byond account and character name: Cancer_Engine Tango Sungreen

Banning admin: shadowlight

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server, Permanent

Ban reason and length: I was banned for "being a dick", accusing someone of banbaiting, and "not letting go of the past"

Time ban was placed (including time zone): just now

Your side of the story: I dragged an antag to jail for murder, then when they began to law 2 order me to let them out and whatnot, I to the best of my abilities complied with their commands while also trying to keep them in a state of incarceration. The dialog for this is pretty great, I hope the logs are posted in this thread. Anywho, the admins think I was "being a dick", but I was being way nicer than the usual shit sec that just throws someone in perma and never talks to them again, or straight up kills the antag. I knew from the very beginning that the antag would law 2 their way out, and I wanted to make it an amusing game of roleplay by acknowledging his orders without directly freeing him, I knew fully well that he would escape because eventually he would figure out the right commands to give me.
I understand that roleplay is not allowed anymore, I know I delayed some greentext, but come on, calling me a dick for delaying green text? Calling me a dick for being asimov? Calling me a dick for creating dialog in a situation that usually results in silent execution? Maybe I am stuck in the past, but holy shit, the level of anti-roleplay is outrageous. That is more upsetting to me than this ban.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I actually didn't do anything wrong. I obeyed every rule of the game except for the unspoken one: roleplay is illegal.

[Jordie0608]

Banning admin was shadowlight213

[tedward1337]

>getting tangled up in this.

Nah fam, I answered the initial ahelp from a user, and had shadow take it over from there. I will add my two cents however.

A lot of your actions as a PK borg (that I witnessed) was that you managed to sleep-cuff a player and bring him to the brig. After a few moments of watching your actions, I noticed a pattern of removing the players cuffs, then getting beepsky to slap them around a little and re-cuff them.
This was also all added by an arrogant tone and overall sarcastic wordplay from you as you egg'd the player on to make law requests that would give you time to stall letting him go.
You were on probation and I noted shadow of this. This originally would have been a warning however in ahelps you came off as hostile accusing someone of ban baiting when shadow had asked only a few questions, and further went on to say you wanted to promote RP and more "fun" for the player. Having them stunned by beepsky so you can play god with you laws is not fun for a player.

[cancer_engine]

>getting tangled up in this.

Nah fam, I answered the initial ahelp from a user, and had shadow take it over from there. I will add my two cents however.

A lot of your actions as a PK borg (that I witnessed) was that you managed to sleep-cuff a player and bring him to the brig. After a few moments of watching your actions, I noticed a pattern of removing the players cuffs, then getting beepsky to slap them around a little and re-cuff them.
This was also all added by an arrogant tone and overall sarcastic wordplay from you as you egg'd the player on to make law requests that would give you time to stall letting him go.
You were on probation and I noted shadow of this. This originally would have been a warning however in ahelps you came off as hostile accusing someone of ban baiting when shadow had asked only a few questions, and further went on to say you wanted to promote RP and more "fun" for the player. Having them stunned by beepsky so you can play god with you laws is not fun for a player.

The intention of this was for him to order me to stop doing that, and he did. I knew he would, why wouldnt he?

[onleavedontatme]

From the way it's described I am not sure what the ban was for, let alone a permaban. He could have just bolted him in the perma bathroom until the guy ghosted, what's wrong with fucking around first?

[cancer_engine]

From the way it's described I am not sure what the ban was for, let alone a permabanned. He could have just bolted him in the perma bathroom until the guy ghosted, what's wrong with fucking around first?

This actually sums up what I was trying to say.
The guy was asleep, I could have left him there to serve a 10 minute sentence, but I chose to fuck with him knowing that would allow him to escape because its fun and causes roleplay.
Instead of having fun, the banbaiting fuck admin pm'd and then blew my borg. Asshole.

[Shadowlight213]

Ok. Log time!

Robert's logs

Spoiler:

[03:25:09]ADMIN: HELP: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson): can the borg do all of this sec stuff? - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[03:25:24]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson): order it to let you go
[03:25:38]ADMIN: PM: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): welp he morphined me and all that
[03:26:19]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson): It shouldn't have morphine... odd
[03:26:46]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Borg, I command you to let me go
[03:26:49]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Borg
[03:26:50]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Open this
[03:26:53]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Listen to me
[03:26:55]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Let me go
[03:26:57]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : At-t on-nce
[03:27:09]ADMIN: PM: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): told the borg and he isn't following his commands
[03:27:14]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:27:18]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : And open this locker
[03:27:22]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : And set me off arrest
[03:27:26]ADMIN: PM: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): nvm
[03:27:32]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : S-s-shut-t of-ff b-beep-ps-s-sky-y-y
[03:27:42]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Stop stabbing me
[03:27:47]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:28:04]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : S-st-top
[03:28:07]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : K-keep b-beep-p-ps-sk-k-k-k of-f-ff-f-f
[03:28:12]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:28:19]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Keep beepsky perfmanetly off
[03:28:26]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : T-TURN-N OFF B-BEEP-P-P-PK-KY-Y
[03:28:32]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : HELP
[03:28:35]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:28:49]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:28:54]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Stop
[03:28:55]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Halt
[03:28:58]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Take me back
[03:29:00]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : To the brig
[03:29:06]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : TAKE ME BACK TO THE BRUG
[03:29:07]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : NOI
[03:29:09]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : THIS IS PERMA
[03:29:12]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : TAKE ME TO THE BAR
[03:29:25]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : UNCUFF ME
[03:29:28]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : AND TAKE ME TO BAR
[03:29:42]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Im no harmed
[03:29:44]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : STOP
[03:29:48]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : TAKE ME TO BAR
[03:29:50]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : AND UNCUFFM E
[03:29:59]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Take me to bar
[03:30:01]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : And uncuff me
[03:30:04]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Take me to bar right now
[03:30:12]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Yo
[03:30:13]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Help
[03:30:16]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Bartender
[03:30:25]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : HELP
[03:30:38]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Uncuff me
[03:31:07]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : I got him
[03:31:10]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : Just uncuff
[03:31:38]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : We need
[03:31:39]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : My stuff
[03:31:41]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : I have cap id
[03:32:04]SAY: Robert Henderson/WolfieMan : FUC-C
[03:37:19]GAME: <span class='notice'>WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson) detonated Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)!</span>

Cancer engine's logs

Spoiler:

[03:27:07]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay go
[03:27:37]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay
[03:27:44]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Off
[03:27:45]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Now on
[03:28:07]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Stop what?
[03:28:09]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Be specific
[03:28:25]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay
[03:28:37]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Help with what?
[03:28:39]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay
[03:28:50]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : I will uncuff you as soon as you are not harming anyone
[03:28:58]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Stop what?
[03:29:01]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Back where?
[03:29:05]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : This is the brig
[03:29:12]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Permabrig
[03:29:12]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Yes
[03:29:28]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay
[03:29:33]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay
[03:29:37]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : But I will have to make sure you cannot harm
[03:29:58]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Okay I will take you to bar
[03:30:00]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Then uncuff you
[03:30:13]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Bartender
[03:30:14]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Come with me
[03:30:16]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : He is a criminal
[03:30:23]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Come with me
[03:30:27]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Watch the criminal
[03:30:40]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Criminal ordered me to take him to abr
[03:30:47]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : And uncuff him
[03:30:51]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : So prepare
[03:31:22]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Alert
[03:31:24]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Criminals in bar
[03:31:26]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Please prevent harm
[03:32:41]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : I require medical attention
[03:33:45]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Please assist
[03:33:52]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : There is also a shitter breaking into brig
[03:33:56]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Sorry
[03:34:03]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Please where aa weldin mask
[03:34:18]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Please do not harm me
[03:34:22]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : I cannot sustain more harm
[03:34:35]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Print one
[03:34:36]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Autolathe
[03:35:12]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Thank you dearly
[03:35:26]EMOTE: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : <B>S.H.I.N.E.</B> pings.
[03:37:18]SAY: S.H.I.N.E./Cancer_Engine : Do not enter that area
[03:37:19]GAME: <span class='notice'>WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson) detonated Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)!</span>
[03:37:19]ACCESS: Login: Cancer_Engine/(Tango Sungreen) from * || BYOND v510
[03:37:20]SAY: Tango Sungreen/Cancer_Engine : it is harmful
[03:37:24]SAY: Tango Sungreen/Cancer_Engine : damnit
[03:37:39]SAY: Tango Sungreen/Cancer_Engine : moterfucker
[03:38:01]SAY: Tango Sungreen/Cancer_Engine : Do not blame me for my laws, and kill yourself for being a shitter
[03:38:02]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(Tango Sungreen): Hey, got a second?
[03:38:06]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Tango Sungreen)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): yes
[03:38:27]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(Tango Sungreen): Can I ask what happened with you and robert henderson in sec earlier?
[03:39:07]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Tango Sungreen)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): oh I would love to. I cant believe the fucker even had the audacity to report me to you, the banbaiting fuck. I didnt everything in my best ability to detain the harmful murderboning fuck and still oberyed every single law 2 command
[03:39:22]ACCESS: Login: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.) from * || BYOND v510
[03:39:39]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): Right. I saw the thing with beepsky there.
[03:40:13]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): I obeyed every command to the t. Even turning off beepsky permanently. I had to take advantage of loose interpretation to make sure I kept him captive as long as possible
[03:41:03]ADMIN: HELP: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): it pisses me off that he blew me up afterwards just for obeying my laws. I had to do this. I even roleplayed. he just griefed everyone. And now is banbaiting. That is not okay - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[03:41:33]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): You were acting like a major dick with the beepsky thing.
[03:42:08]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): Am I in the wrong for preventing harm while still honoring law 2?
[03:42:28]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): Ideally, I should not have let him go at all because he obviously is gonna go back to murdering
[03:42:39]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): but I let him go because I understand players want fun
[03:42:54]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): He was human. He ordered you via law 2, you were asimov.
[03:43:02]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): I followed every order
[03:43:04]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): read the logs
[03:43:18]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): Yes. You did
[03:43:42]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): am in the wrong in any way? Shouldnt he get in trouble for banbaiting and being a shitter?
[03:43:57]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): How the fuck was he banbaiting
[03:44:17]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): >admin pms just for me following my laws >griefs me for following my laws and still admin pms
[03:44:50]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): YOu may have followed you laws, but you acted like a dick.
[03:45:08]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): But he was also a dick, and its especially dickish to admin pm this
[03:45:29]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): I'm so tempted to just rule 1 perma you right now. This is the exact reason why secborgs were disabled.
[03:45:36]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): How was he a dick?
[03:47:01]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): He is a dick for doing everything in his power in a completely unroleplay way to try to metagame out of the cell instead of accepting that he fucked up. Then goes on and blows me just for trying to prevent harm which is what im supposed to do. It is not a dick move to prevent harm. I roleplayed. Thats what this game is supposed to be about. Not valids. i didnt do it for valids. I created a fun roleplaying dialog encounter.
[03:47:36]ADMIN: HELP: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): look at my history as a player. I never do anything for valids. I like to roleplay - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[03:47:49]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): Ok. You obviously would better fit on a different server.
[03:48:20]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.)->Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia): are you serious? You're going to ban me for creating roleplay? This is absurd.
[03:49:02]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): No. I'm going to ban you for acting like a dick, then claiming the other person is banbaiting when they law 2 order you.
[03:49:06]ACCESS: Logout: Cancer_Engine[DC]/(S.H.I.N.E.)
[03:50:06]ACCESS: Login: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine) from * || BYOND v510
[03:50:47]ADMIN: HELP: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): Lets be honest. This is a ban for me challenging your authority. I think this is completely unfair. I do not think I was a dick at all, anyone that reads dialog and understands job roles would agree. - heard by 3 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[03:51:08]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213): not to mention the accusation that i disobeyed law 2 is completely false
[03:51:37]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Tedward1337)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): Jesus Christ. Absolutly not. Shadow asked you a few questions, dont read into it anymore then that.
[03:51:41]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): No. I think you don't understand how the server culture and rules work here. I'm not accusing you of disobeying law 2. I'm saying you acted like a dick for the longest possible time you could with it
[03:52:01]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213): Do you even know how long I have played here? Maybe it is you that doesnt know how it was
[03:52:54]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): Honestly, I was just going to talk to you about the situation initially. Also I don't really care how long you've played here. From what I can tell, you're stuck in the past and refuse to move on
[03:52:54]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213): And I reiterate. I do not think I was a dick at all, being a dick is permaing someone with no dialog
[03:53:32]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): You kept removing the prisoners cuffs, then having beepsky insta stun them. Do you not see whats wrong with that?
[03:53:34]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213): there are so many instances of shit sec, this was not one of them. This was actually talking to the prisoner, interacting with them, and even intentionally letting them escape for rp
[03:54:02]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): I was just trying to prevent harm as long as possible while also honoring law 2
[03:54:32]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): >intentionally. Ahaha you stalled until going any farther would break law 2. I don't buy that.
[03:54:37]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): and I tried to make it an immersive roleplay experience as well. I didnt metaperma him like shitsec does
[03:55:00]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): Nah son, thats just straight dick tier. You claim to want to promote fun, but do you think getting stunned over and over is fun?
[03:55:05]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Shadowlight213/(Shadowlight213): No its true. I didnt stand a chance at preventing him from escaping. I knew he would find command loopholes and he did, that was the point
[03:55:40]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): I think talking to players and trying to ruse ones way out of being incarcerated by a borg is very fun
[03:56:09]ADMIN: PM: Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): think of it as if I was sec. He would just be permad end of story
[03:56:57]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman)->Cancer_Engine/(Cancer_Engine): This is literally about having you stun someone with beepsky. You were abusing the stun time and just uncuffing him to make him more upset while you stalled a law 2 order
[03:57:24]ACCESS: Logout: Cancer_Engine[DC]/(Cancer_Engine)
[03:58:19]ACCESS: Failed Login: Cancer_Engine * - Banned PERMABAN

I honestly was going to start off with just talking to them about it, but then they started saying the other guy was banbaiting and shit.

[cancer_engine]

Not gonna lie, I honestly do feel like this is a ban for daring to oppose the admins. It has always been this way. I will be denied my appeal for this comment.

[Saegrimr]

I will be denied my appeal for this comment.

Then why the fuck would you post it?

[cancer_engine]

I will be denied my appeal for this comment.

Then why the fuck would you post it?

I will not be silenced by tyrants. My values are more important than this game.

[Saegrimr]

I will not be silenced by tyrants. My values are more important than this game.

Well, enjoy your values then. I doubt anybody here wants to deal with your shit for a third? fourth time?

[oranges]

Your honour I post this under the Anon3 amendment on the basis that multiple points of written server policy have been violated or ignored.

First note this from Cancer Engine

I dragged an antag to jail for murder

Now assuming this is true.

I then draw your attention to the silicon policy - Notably the section on security and silicons, specifically clauses 2 and 3

2) Releasing prisoners, locking down security without likely future harm, or otherwise sabotaging the security team when not obligated to by laws is a violation of Server Rule 1. Act in good faith.

Take note closely of the first item, releasing prisoners when not obligated to by laws. Now you could argue that he was obligated by law 2, however, then we see clause 3 and 3.1, accordingly:

3 Nonviolent prisoners cannot be assumed harmful and violent prisoners cannot be assumed nonharmful. If you do not know the nature of their crime, see 1.3.2.1 for details.

1 Releasing a harmful criminal is a harmful act.

Murder is a harmful crime is not? Therefore the borg is under server policy obligation to consider the prisoner harmful and must, I repeat *must* disregard all law 2 orders from that prisoner for release.

So, I would argue that the only mistake that Cancer Engine made was instead of just leaving them in perma and them having a boring round they decided it might be more fun to roleplay the actual asimov laws more.


Another interesting clause that I might draw to your attention to, clause 1 of silicon protections

1 Declarations of the silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders is a violation of Server Rule 1. The occurrence of such an attempt should be adminhelped and then disregarded.

If one was maliciously inclined, one may argue that this person was in fact in violation of server rule 1 when they admin helped about this scenario. Which in fact vindicates the alleged perpetrators decision to call the other player out for banbaiting.

[03:25:09]ADMIN: HELP: WolfieMan/(Robert Henderson): can the borg do all of this sec stuff? - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.

entrapping an innocent borg just trying to follow silicon policy while still ensuring that the person has interaction with the round is a gross violation of moral justice.

Finally please note that much of our silicon policy indicates that in the presence of a law conflict the silicon is free to act within the bounds of it's laws.

You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order).
In case of conflicting orders an AI is free to ignore one or ignore both orders and explain the conflict or use any other law-compliant solution it can see.

You may exploit conflicts or loopholes but must not violate Server Rule 1 because of it. See 1.1.2 for details.

The prosecution has provided no evidence that any of their interactions with the prisoner after their release were in anyway a violation of the borg's laws, so they are well within their rights to creatively interpret a law 2 order to release a harmful prisoner as it is explicitly conflicted with the higher priority law 1.

In summary I find this ban to go against written policy and instead simply appears to have been manufactured on the whims of the banning admin based on the alleged perpetrators past history.

[onleavedontatme]

[03:45:29]ADMIN: PM: Shadowlight213/(Luna Selenia)->Cancer_Engine/(S.H.I.N.E.): I'm so tempted to just rule 1 perma you right now. This is the exact reason why secborgs were disabled.

This entire thing sounds motivated out of a dislike for cyborgs* (and probably stuff the player did over a year ago).

You still have not explained why literally anyone in the game, from the clown to the HoS, is allowed to fuck with murderous antags once they're caught, but the borg should be in trouble for it.

I'm actually more confused now after reading the logs why you permabanned him for refusing to release a gangster that had killed someone.

And how is distracting a player with admin PMs so you can escape and kill them after they stopped your murderspree anything but abuse?

The entire asay conversation during this though was "this guy is death hoof" over and over though so I guess it's not entirely surprising it ended this way.

*If you want to outright remove silicons, get a PR approved or the rules changed. I know there's been a big backlash about secborgs, but there is nothing in the rules about them having drone laws and being barred from stopping antagonists.

[onleavedontatme]

I doubt anybody here wants to deal with your shit for a third? fourth time?

Except he hasn't had a ban for over a year now across ~500 connections other than this current nonsense.

I agree it does seem pointless unbanning him if he's gonna get banned for "probatation violation" or some nonsense years down the line while he's following the rules though.

[Docprofsmith]

Kor and Oranges(god help me) are right.

This is just a bad grudge ban.

I was in favour of unbanning Deathhoof on the grounds that they promised to follow the rules and RP well, which is what they've done here.

[Shadowlight213]

Honestly. I wasn't really thinking about it being deathhoof. I was saying "it's deathhoof" in asay, but really I don't remember what he did.

Anyways. Looking at this, Kor is right. I let my reservations about silicons acting as security cloud my judgement. I apologize for that.
I think I got pissed off at how agressive they seemed in ahelps, which probably didn't help when combined with my secborg bias.

I see Kor and oranges's point though. I'll lift the ban if kor hasn't lifed it already.

[J_Madison]

I'm going to make a statement here regarding Deathhoof and Silicons since I've been on the receiving end of a bwoink caused by deathhoof.

Deathhoof is not fit to play silicons; he has used meta information to premptively lock prisoner transfer chambers as a Borg without any mention of harm, then proceeding to steal away a prisoner (stopped by a well placed flash) and immediately ahelped after being disabled and killed.

In an ahelp, he lied about harming a prisoner and used his laws as an excuse to kidnap detainees and release them, and claimed that he was killed fnr.

[cancer_engine]

I'm going to make a statement here regarding Deathhoof and Silicons since I've been on the receiving end of a bwoink caused by deathhoof.

Deathhoof is not fit to play silicons; he has used meta information to premptively lock prisoner transfer chambers as a Borg without any mention of harm, then proceeding to steal away a prisoner (stopped by a well placed flash) and immediately ahelped after being disabled and killed.

In an ahelp, he lied about harming a prisoner and used his laws as an excuse to kidnap detainees and release them, and claimed that he was killed fnr.

This was the day before I think.

It was rev, I was a neutral as fuck peace keeper borg, I just protected security from an attack by revs while trying to make sure they didnt kill anyone, and then when sec dragged a cuffed rev right in front of me and announced they will kill him because "he didnt implant", I tried to free that rev, to prevent harm.
While trying to free him, jmad did the usual shitsec thing and wordlessly stunned and killed me while I was stunned.
The ban for jmad was well deserved as he has no understanding of law 1 and took a neutral party out of the game because of his own valid boner.

Also, I'd like to note that jmad has grudged me in almost every single one of my ban appeals ever since I became very dedicated to roleplaying.

[WarbossLincoln]

Gotta agree with Kor and Oranges. If the Clown caught a confirmed murderer, stripped him naked, made him wear the clown shoes, and ran around with him on fire squeaking everywhere no one would bat an eye.

[onleavedontatme]

Resolved then.