Ban Request : Caiden Williams and Some Other Dude

[Tornadium]

Your byond account: Tornadium
Your character name: Osborn Auman
Their character name: Caiden Williams (And some other dude, Don't have the name can't seem to access logs)
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): See above
Server and time: Sybil 9GMT
Logs and/or screenshots: Can't access logs for some reason, page 403s.
Description of what happened: So towards the end of a round, Caiden and his buddy illegally get all access from the HoP with the "Super Hero" title. At this point they were jacked up with pretty much every single power. Refused to acknowledge that he gave them said all access when I asked dozens of times, Didn't consult anyone in security to my knowledge either. Kept coming back and trying to loot the armory, Stuns don't work so we can only attempt to take them down with lasers.

They keep fucking coming back and end up eventually killing me (The Warden for the round) and nearly killing two other officers.

Why they should be banned: Massively fucking shitty abuse of Powers and All Access forcing security to use lethals to even attempt to stop them from looting anything they wanted and then using it as an excuse to murder (Admittedly after quite a while, their original intention was not to murder).

[Syrias]

Your byond account: Iezzoni
Your character name: Syrias Merritt

Verified-- I was witness to these events (at least the griefing in the brig, the fact that he had that title and super powers, and that he was doing nothing but being an asshat to security all round despite not even being antag), and concur that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge. I am also unaware of who the second person was, as I only was witness to Caiden's tomfuckery.

[Vekter]

Lemme look into this real quick.

E: Ckey for Caiden is Infernite. Looking for his buddy.

E2: Looks like this was somewhat of a misunderstanding. The HoP had given him sec access to act as a "superhero", but neglected to clear it with the HoS. I'm gonna call this IC in that he felt he was defending himself (tried to make his intentions clear multiple times, per the logs), and the Warden kept trying to crit him (which is acceptable given >hulk).

[Tornadium]

Lemme look into this real quick.

E: Ckey for Caiden is Infernite. Looking for his buddy.

E2: Looks like this was somewhat of a misunderstanding. The HoP had given him sec access to act as a "superhero", but neglected to clear it with the HoS. I'm gonna call this IC in that he felt he was defending himself (tried to make his intentions clear multiple times, per the logs), and the Warden kept trying to crit him (which is acceptable given >hulk).

Why is this IC?

I end up dying because the only way to stop him was with lethal force?

He keeps forcing me into a situation where he either takes whatever he feels like from the Armory or I try to stop him with the only method I can? That makes me a valid kill?

[Vekter]

So basically, this is how he said things went down:

* Him and the Viro got powers from genetics and wanted sec access to use them to help.
* HoP for whatever reason granted them access and didn't tell the HoS
* He went in, explained things and went for a bulletproof vest, you gunned him down close to crit
* He knocked you out because self-defense and asked you not to hurt him again (dunno if you heard this or not from being knocked out)
* You got back up, understandably tried to kill him, he went apeshit and offed you

It's a bit unusual, but all of this could've been solved with a bit more communication. I warned him about attacking sec, but otherwise it's not really something I'd ban for.

[Tornadium]

So basically, this is how he said things went down:

* Him and the Viro got powers from genetics and wanted sec access to use them to help.
* HoP for whatever reason granted them access and didn't tell the HoS
* He went in, explained things and went for a bulletproof vest, you gunned him down close to crit
* He knocked you out because self-defense and asked you not to hurt him again (dunno if you heard this or not from being knocked out)
* You got back up, understandably tried to kill him, he went apeshit and offed you

It's a bit unusual, but all of this could've been solved with a bit more communication. I warned him about attacking sec, but otherwise it's not really something I'd ban for.

He tried to take more than the bullet proof vest, Weapons as well.

I believe I told him I'd have to find out what the hell the HoP was doing first but he went and took shit forcing my hand.

I asked the HoP what he was doing about 20 times.

[Infernite]

My only crime was defending myself.
I only went places I had access to.
I was gearing up to arrest criminals not lethally.
The only guns I picked up were the ones warden tried to murder me with.
Hulks can't even use guns, why would I need them.
I only seriously fought back once warden tried to kill me 3rd or 4th time, sparing his life every other time and I tried to explain myself multiple times.

[Lumbermancer]

At this point they were jacked up with pretty much every single power.

I end up dying because the only way to stop him was with lethal force?

You should deploy lethal force without any hesitation on hulks that are being shit.

Kept coming back and trying to loot the armory

Especially since his access was not cleared, making it simply invalid, and he entered armory. Gun the fucker down next time. I would.

[Tornadium]

My only crime was defending myself.
I only went places I had access to.
I was gearing up to arrest criminals not lethally.
The only guns I picked up were the ones warden tried to murder me with.
Hulks can't even use guns, why would I need them.
I only seriously fought back once warden tried to kill me 3rd or 4th time, sparing his life every other time and I tried to explain myself multiple times.

You were gearing up with illegal access.

I didn't murder you, I critted you once and let you leave.

You came back. I have no idea why did you take them?

You left me literally no choice but to use lethal force to stop you, that does not make me "valid" because you feel like looting the brig with illegal access.

[Vekter]

It's not illegal access if the HoP gives it to them.

[Tornadium]

It's not illegal access if the HoP gives it to them.

So the HoP gives him all access without any consultation with the Captain or the HoS and that's legal?

Really?

[Vekter]

It's not illegal access if the HoP gives it to them.

So the HoP gives him all access without any consultation with the Captain or the HoS and that's legal?

Really?

It's not illegal in the sense that it's not his fault. The HoP acted out of line but it shouldn't be placed on the person he gave the access to.

Also, as far as I can tell, he was just given sec and armory access.

As far as I'm concerned this all seems like a big misunderstanding. Unless another admin thinks differently I'm going to resolve this.

[Tornadium]

I wouldn't be complaining if they didn't come back after they got critted the first time.

They came back and put me in that position AGAIN.

[Lumbermancer]

The HoP acted out of line but it shouldn't be placed on the person he gave the access to.

Why not? Didn't we have exactly the same discussion not so long ago, about "pretending" to be security and consequences of such actions? Whether you want to call yourself Super Hero, or Bodyguard, same rules should apply.

[NikNakFlak]

This was investigated/talked about more in-deftly in #supportbus.
Resolved and logs posted for transparency and information sake.
http://privatepaste.com/53e9f8a577