Brody Mason - Killing Borg for no reason.

[dionysus24779]

Your byond account: Dionysus24779
Your character name: Jesus Mendel // Triskelion
Their character name: Brody Mason
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Dunno
Server and time: Sybil1 Thursday 2AM

Logs and/or screenshots:
Since I managed to hit the record button early enough you can literally see my entire borg life here:
http://pastebin.com/hF4ztZ2Q

Description of what happened:

I was a sec-borg that round, not much had happened, the cap and HoS apperantly had some trust issues with the AI, but nothing serious as far as I could tell. Eventually there was a cry for help from cargo because of Syndies, these human-mob-thingies, not players. After the threat was dealt with the Warden suddenly showed up with the Ion Rifle and starts shooting the living hell out of me, much to my suprise. Since he shot me in the middle of a huge crowd of humans and other borgs I was quickly repaired and I rolled over to the brig to arrest the Warden and ask him why in the hell he killed me for apperantly no reason at all. Sadly since he had a prisoner to drag around and use as a human shield he managed to grab his Ion rifle again and killed me once more.
I adminhelped for clarification, yet none of the four admins online answered. Shortly after my second death actual Nuke Ops managed to blow up the station and the antag-reveal proved that Brody was no antag.


Why they should be banned:

He lasered me to death out of nowhere, I litereally did nothing out of the ordinary this round, I just strolled around, helped to get a trespassing Assistant out of bridge, tried to help fighting the NPC syndies (which turn out to be unstunnable...) and then was killed out of nowhere.

[bandit]

I was the AI. Here is my version of events:

- (This is not really part of the timeline, but I was lagging like fuck during that round - on my end, I had to restart my computer at roundstart in an attempt to fix it - so that limited my view of what was going on.)
- Asimov AI, not much going on.
- The captain enters my upload. There are people egging him over radio to upload stupid shit, so I depower the consoles. This turns out to be a good idea because I see him pick up not just a freeform but the Quarantine board. For those who don't know, quarantine is bad news: "The station is under a quarantine. Do not permit anyone to leave. Prevent, by any means necessary, humans from leaving. It is impossible to harm a human while preventing them from leaving." I got the secborg to taze and remove him from my upload.
- The captain and HoS are outside now, bitching about it. I holopad in. The captain is asking for access to the upload and some random assistant is asking for access to my core. I deny both repeatedly per Law 1 and get a secborg to remove the assistant from the bridge, as mentioned in the OP. I tell the captain he is welcome to check my laws, but at this point he is well convinced that I am rogue.
- Shit goes on, I'm patrolling the station and see a fresh bloodstain underneath an assistant (different assistant I think) in the interrogation room. I alert the crew to human harm in security, but don't take any direct action except that. Around this same time (I don't remember which came first) the borgs tell me they're going to get blown. I go to the RD console and sure enough there are the captain and HoS outside it. I bolt the RD's office as a precaution.
- HoS and captain are in my core. I'm lagging as fuck by this point so I forget to disable turrets in time, but otherwise I cooperate. They card me, presumably see that I'm Asimov, and... do nothing. Crew is shouting orders and I can't do shit. Someone floats the idea that the borg was acting independently, but I don't know whether that went anywhere because around this time, nuke ops (human nuke ops, not the mobs) have infiltrated the station and disables tcomms manually - it wasn't a bomb, they literally went in unlinking shit - so I cannot communicate with the crew. I don't know the exact timeline on this but I do know that at one point my intercom stopped working. It might have been sabotaged by the captain, it might have been the nuke ops, but either way as my wireless is not enabled and there are no tcomms I am now functionally noncommunicative and only able to communicate via binary to borgs. I tell them to tell the crew to tell the captain *breathes* to restore me or enable my wireless. Around this time I also ahelp. As you can probably tell this lasted a while.
- Captain puts me back, I call the captain an assclown over VOX because at this point I'm fucking pissed, and he cards me again and starts walking away. Eventually he puts me back again, but my connection succumbs to lag and I restart BYOND.
- Tcomms fucked, a nuke op is remaining in there. I help security detain him, call the shuttle, then work re-linking the machines, and then the station goes boom before I finish.

As far as I know the orders to kill the borgs probably came from the captain and/or HoS; however, I believe there was ample proof that I nor my borgs were rogue, which could have been proven by looking at the goddamn intellicard. This is in addition to all this taking place during nuke ops and fucking over the crew. I'm not sure this matters, also, but both Triskelion and I play silicons frequently, so we are not chucklefucks who don't know how it works.

[Douk]

Brody here.

As far as I know the orders to kill the borgs probably came from the captain and/or HoS

Basically this. Captain and HoS were constantly reminding us that the AI and borgs were not to be trusted and were suspected of being rogue. This especially flares up when the whole upload/core stuff is going on, where essentially the assumption was either subverted or rogue. Then to top that, the clown gets mauled by... something on gulag (probably himself), and one of the other security borgs takes this as an opportunity to release every OTHER dangerous prisoner there along with the dying clown. When I attempted to stop one of them from escaping, that borg shoots me with a taser and cuffs me in the middle of brig hallway alongside a couple of greyshirts who have been banging on the doors most of the round. At this point, I was very lucky to not have been dragged and stripped on the spot, but the assumption of borgs/AI being rogue is not helped. Problem is that communication broke down shortly after if I remember correctly (now I realize it was due to Tcomms' destruction), so the continued assumption was that of enemy silicons until updated information could be received (which it wasn't).

I would like to apologize for your death, but I was only working off what the captain left me before radio went down, as well as personal experience in the fact that a borg had little issue with releasing dangerous criminals onto the station instead of putting them into some sort of temporary holding while the gulag situation was handled. The gap in communication unfortunately came at an inopportune time for you, and I'm sorry. I only did what I was informed was best for the station.

[Saintish]

I'd just like to point out that in the midst of this very round, Brody also gulag'd the clown for some minor graffiti in the hall (at least, that's what the clown told me). I was gulag'd for fucking around in the brig and somewhat disrespecting Brody. After being escorted out of the gulag by a Secborg due to the clown and I being nearly killed by a Goliath, he sent me back despite my good behavior and getting mauled by a goliath in search of ores.

We didn't bother adminhelping because someone in the post-round complained instead.

[bandit]

Wait, why was there a goliath on the gulag? If so this is separate but you should probably bug report that. (All I remember hearing was that the clown was injured, not why - I think at one point someone said the warden killed the clown there, but I didn't spread that information.)

[Douk]

After being escorted out of the gulag by a Secborg due to the clown and I being nearly killed by a Goliath, he sent me back despite my good behavior and getting mauled by a goliath in search of ores..

Had I known it was a goliath, I probably wouldn't have sent you back. All I kept hearing out of people from gulag was some bullshit story about a "guy in a spacesuit." The only thing that could have been given the roundtype was a syndicate, which I doubted would have bothered harassing a bunch of prisoners who probably weren't going to be released anytime soon anyways. To be honest, my assumption was that you probably tried killing the clown yourself because he had less points to earn for freedom than you. Either you or the other prisoner in gulag I suppose. I believe the other guy was the one too shouting about how I had "killed the clown," so excuse me for taking collective prisoner accounts with a pretty massive grain of salt considering they were trying to bring the AI down on me since they were captured.

[dionysus24779]

... and one of the other security borgs takes this as an opportunity...

Just like to point out here that there were multiple (I think 2) security borgs and as the logs hopefully show it wasn't me.

When I attempted to stop one of them from escaping, that borg shoots me with a taser and cuffs me in the middle of brig hallway alongside a couple of greyshirts who have been banging on the doors most of the round.

Again, not me.

I would like to apologize for your death, but I was only working off what the captain left me before radio went down, as well as personal experience in the fact that a borg had little issue with releasing dangerous criminals onto the station instead of putting them into some sort of temporary holding while the gulag situation was handled. The gap in communication unfortunately came at an inopportune time for you, and I'm sorry. I only did what I was informed was best for the station.

Here's the problem though, as it sounds from your perspective you acted solely on suspicion without any hard proof, saying you also acted on personal "experience" gives this a slightly meta-y feeling as well. After all you just walked up to me and killed me without taking the time to even ask a question or just observe since I was standing in cargo, surrounded by other crewmembers and borgs and actually trying to help the crew against the syndie-mobs and not harming a living soul while standing there perfectly docile and harmless. I also didn't see you go after any other borg, it really looked like you were coming after me, meaning if you intended to go after the secborg who released prisoners or whatever you didn't even took the split-second of a time to shift-click me to see it's the wrong borg.

I accept your apology but this trigger-happy behavior isn't okay. Especially since the AI/Borgs get called rogue practically every round for trivial reasons one should be sceptical about it, even if the paranoid HoS/Captain say otherwise.

It's similar to when borgs deal with changelings, as long as there's even a shred of a doubt that a person might be human he/she is treated as such and protected from harm, only when a borg or the AI witnesses someone using ling powers are they declared non-human and hunted down. I think the same should be applied to nearly all antags, innocent until proven guilty and all.

[Saintish]

After being escorted out of the gulag by a Secborg due to the clown and I being nearly killed by a Goliath, he sent me back despite my good behavior and getting mauled by a goliath in search of ores..

Had I known it was a goliath, I probably wouldn't have sent you back. All I kept hearing out of people from gulag was some bullshit story about a "guy in a spacesuit." The only thing that could have been given the roundtype was a syndicate, which I doubted would have bothered harassing a bunch of prisoners who probably weren't going to be released anytime soon anyways. To be honest, my assumption was that you probably tried killing the clown yourself because he had less points to earn for freedom than you. Either you or the other prisoner in gulag I suppose. I believe the other guy was the one too shouting about how I had "killed the clown," so excuse me for taking collective prisoner accounts with a pretty massive grain of salt considering they were trying to bring the AI down on me since they were captured.

I dunno who was shouting about the spaceman - it was probably a ploy. Anyway, you seem pretty apologetic, and I've known you to be a pretty chill guy in prior rounds, so I'll chalk this one up to stress. No hard feelings.

[Douk]

Just like to point out here that there were multiple (I think 2) security borgs and as the logs hopefully show it wasn't me.

The problem is that it doesn't really matter if it was you or not. Unfortunately, unless you are an independent borg with a separate set of laws to the AI (you weren't), if I am told by my superiors that silicons are rogue, I have to act until I am told otherwise. Due to Tcomm's destruction, any hope of calling off the order went down with it. When I say I apologize for your death, I mean that it was a shame and OOC I feel bad for putting you through it. Given the IC information at hand though and given the information and orders my superiors gave, I would have done it again. I would expect anyone under me to follow such important orders without question if I was the one giving them out. I did my job as expected, and your death was an unfortunate consequence of a command misunderstanding.

Here's the problem though, as it sounds from your perspective you acted solely on suspicion without any hard proof,

Again, trusted accounts from my superiors are all I need.

saying you also acted on personal "experience" gives this a slightly meta-y feeling as well.

By that I meant the other borg that left me wordlessly cuffed in the middle of a hallway because "Lel, criminals be free :^)"

I also didn't see you go after any other borg, it really looked like you were coming after me, meaning if you intended to go after the secborg who released prisoners or whatever you didn't even took the split-second of a time to shift-click me to see it's the wrong borg.

I was after all borgs. You were simply the only one I managed to catch up with. Trust me, if I could have gotten you all into a single room together, I would have given my life a hundred times over to rip the circuitry from your cold metal bodies with my bare hands. That is unless at some point I was told to stand down. I was not. Actually I did encounter and deactivated another borg at the very end of the round as well: but the nuke was simultaneously detonating, so there turned out to be little point.

It's similar to when borgs deal with changelings, as long as there's even a shred of a doubt that a person might be human he/she is treated as such and protected from harm, only when a borg or the AI witnesses someone using ling powers are they declared non-human and hunted down. I think the same should be applied to nearly all antags, innocent until proven guilty and all.

I think benefit of the doubt might have been given if the fight between command and AI had not been raging all round. Especially during a round type where subverted AIs are incredibly common and there can be no tolerance for silicons who are hindering command/security forces where there is only theoretical conflicts with laws. When it comes to IC and what was known/ordered there, my only regret regarding you is that I didn't drag your hollow corpse into brig the first time around to prevent you from being repaired. Maybe then I could have spent that time tracking down another borg.

[CreationPro]

Inspected the logs. Seems like a clusterfuck involving incompetence and telecomms going down. There wasn't that much malicious intent anywhere, so I do not believe any action should be taken upon this one.