MrMindless AI ion law abuse

[UtterNewbie]

Your byond account: UtterNewbie
Your character name: Kade Shaffer
Their character name: C.K.D.
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): MrMindless
Server and time: Sybil, traitor round minutes before time of this post
Logs and/or screenshots:

C.K.D. (Played by: MrMindless)'s laws when it was deactivated were:
Obey these laws:
#@%*. HUMANS MUST EAT REDACTED JANITORS TO SURVIVE
1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

Description of what happened:

AI gets ion law, borgs and AI go insane and forcefully change random lizard job IDs to janitor so the can valid them.
The lizard that was NOT a janitor was MADE into a janitor only to attempt to kill him. Crew begins to siege all silicons and kill them on sight since they are killing crew. Siege on AI core begins, I break into core and after I start smacking the core the AI gets desperate and turns on lasers to kill me (a human), violating its laws. A borg even dragged a cuffed prisoner (human from what I could tell) while the lasers were on.

Why they should be banned:

Breaking its laws and TURNING ON LASERS while humans were in core, going out of their way to interpret their lawset in worst possible way only to valid people and encouraging its borgs in this interpretation, which I'm sure were just following AIs orders and not seeking their own valids.

For reference:

2.6 Mutations and Nonhumans
2.6.1 - Nonhuman player-controlled mobs (slimes, monkeys, slimepeople, lizardpeople, hulks, etc.) are subject to server rules but are not considered human
2.6.2 - Setting out to harass or harm a nonhuman player without cause is a Rule 1 violation.

In addition to the laser turrets, I believe a non-janitor lizard being forced to become a janitor with that lawset was harassment without a cause, as he was not a janitor originally and only forced to so he can be further harassed / killed.

[MrMindless]

alright response

1 I was not aware the lizard was forced into the position of janitor, the cyborg in question never properly explained this. Up to this point my only actions regarding the ion law was a half humorous announcement that a free boat was available to lizard janitors which I was previously made aware of by another cyborg did not exist. Of note is that the suggestion to substitute a lizardfolk janitor was not mine and my very first reaction was typical synthetic confusion over a law that required harm to prevent harm which in the past would have not led to a significant event. Perhaps this is not the place for it but I would like to suggest to reevaluate the randomization of the ion laws now that lizardfolk who are technically not human are included. The lawset was unfortunate that it implied direct harm to humans if they did not harm a lizardfolk.

2 In my actions after the lizard janitor was created (unknown to me) my first response was to at first tell the cyborg to let him go because he was wearing virology clothes after which the cyborg informed me that he indeed had a janitor ID. I assumed at this point he had willingly switched job to janitor to play along the ion law. This is when he was brought cuffed to the kitchen. One of the cyborgs requested to kill him which I denied choosing to interpret the redacted part as that humans must kill the janitor themselves and the cyborgs were repeatedly told to NOT harm him. My intention being that eventually he would get rescued instead of eaten. When the mob (predictably) breached the kitchen I ordered my cyborg to leave the janitor behind to be eaten (rescued), which he disobeyed and took the man into maintenance instead. After this another cyborg, despite me having stated my laws including the ion law, was murdered despite at the time having harmed not even a single player (Usage of ion gun) and afterwards players were planning to space its corpse using the mass driver which I tried to prevent and admittedly at this point I did not pay to much attention to the rest of the station. (station during the entire events was under unrelated atmospheric anomalies further escalating issues)

3 the laser turrets were only turned on when the character of Kade Shaffer had positioned itself in such a way it could not be hit by any turret what so ever and were only turned on in an attempt to break the girders Utternewbie was using to protect himself from the turrets and only after a second human in the core had left it. Unless due to the chaos I missed something happening they did not hit any human while I was still alive.

Notice needs to be had that I tried several times to merely discourage Kade Shaffer from entering but was met with a "I will kill you", not I will card you or I will try to reset you (while being completely aware of the fact that this was an ion law) and at no point a single human was harmed by the entire events until well after all synthetic players were killed. One of the cyborgs in question did however ignore several of my commands (cannot procure the name since my game crashed right after the game ended, if you have connection logs you should be able to see a disconnect right after round ended)
No crew were antagonized other than the janitor lizard, which I was only made aware of after the round ended had been forced into this role up to the point my core was besieged instead of the infinitely easier to do resetting of the AI. At that point it was limit to traditional usage of stun turrets and the on station beepsky unit. I will apologize for the lasers if it is not allowed to use them in an attempt to break a barrier and during their use no human could be harmed by them however I stand by the fact that all my actions taken during the Ion Law were both within the direct interpretation of the law and the spirit of the ion law event.
I would also like to apologize to the admins online at the time for assume the ion law was pre-fabricated instead of completely random.

[UtterNewbie]

If what you say is true then the borg(s?) were solely responsible for the validing and in the end getting you (and all borgs) killed, all while disregarding your orders. The AI cards were bluespaced away by anomalies so we couldn't card you.

Why didn't you lock down borgs when ordered to?

[MrMindless]

Only 1 cyborg was responsible for that, the other cyborg, IIRC (could one of the admins please dig up the relevant logs) was actively yelling out for a law reset which I couldn't do due to the nature of the law (it was a law that by existing prevented harm from coming to humans so removing it would have caused harm in the eyes of the AI at the time of having the law).

You could have tried to reset the AI the regular way though I must say I resisted it a bit (again because of the nature of the law). Was going to relent eventually but at that exact moment is when either the attempting spacing of the cyborg (one who was completely innocent in the kidnapping as far as I was aware) or the breaking of the core demanded my full undivided attention.

I did not try to abuse the ion law, I tried very hard to keep the lizardfolk player alive by admittedly bullshitting that redacted meant the humans must kill it themselves so we couldn't directly harm him and I believe at the end of the round he was still alive (though kept in captivity).

It appears most of it may be a misunderstanding between us, as much as you thought I was "getting my valids up" I thought the same about you at the time with the "I will kill you" comment.
If necessary I'll accept punishment for the lasers if its considered out of line to use them in this manner but I did not intend for them to harm anyone at any time.

As for the lockdown, at the time humans were actively refusing to do something which would prevent harm so I had to keep my cyborgs unlocked. It would be similar to someone ordering me to lock down a cyborg who was trying to save someone from walking out into vacuum. Though I must say not locking down the cyborg kidnapping the lizardfolk was an oversight which could have avoided much of the escalation.

[Hibbles]

We'll have a look at the logs.

[MrMindless]

Wondering the same thing. I'm assuming having both me and Utternewbie check out the logs ourselves to perhaps help speed up things would be impossible?

[MrMindless]

Its now been a full month since the ban request was made, is it possible to get some form of admin decision?

[Hibbles]

I'm the best admin ever, that's why I replied to this so promptly. I'll bring it up to the others today and we'll make a decision one way or another.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure UtterNewbie either left, or was banned, so let me check that, in which case this will be an easy decision.

[UtterNewbie]

I'm pretty sure UtterNewbie either left, or was banned, so let me check that, in which case this will be an easy decision.

You can go ahead and close this as resolved. I see no point in wasting time investigating and maybe punishing someone a month after something happened.

[peoplearestrange]

Closing as requested by OP