Silicons more interested in valids than following laws.

[omnitricks]

Your byond account: omnitricks

Your character name: The Headsman (mime)

Their character name: Deep Thought (AI)

Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): JefftheMighty

Server and time: Sybil 3:30 pm GMT

Logs and/or screenshots: Because I was the mime, I could only talk in PDA which is not recorded unless I receive. This is what I received from the AI in response to my requests.
Message from Deep Thought (AI), "Good morning." (Reply)
Message from Deep Thought (AI), "I am afraid you do not have proper access to Area: Bridge." (Reply)
Do note that these messages were in response to my requests for help and not my requests to be let into the bridge I've asked for minutes ago confirming that the AI did receive my messages and could have acted upon them.

Description of what happened:
Round start was tator mime. Wasn't too interested with objectives (killing an AI is too much work) so I went for my Headsman sthick again for fun. Grabbed the set of items I usually get and I needed (balaclava, gloves, tools, etc) until the last one. My headsman axe. Went to the bridge but since there was no reason to hack the doors, I pda'd the AI to open it but no answer. Borg passed by and I pointed to the door over and over but it refused to open them and just watched. Another crewmember came past by and told it to open it but it only opened the door once refusing to open the second and stayed and watched again.

By then I got fed up and walked off to decide if I should try atmos to get it but I tried one more time, returning to the door and pdaing the AI. This was when I was shot by random MD (Van Skorvold) while he shouted foul creature and the effects of chloral started kicking in. Because I was messaging the AI with my PDA I started messaging it for help (I can't remember if I messaged it the specifics) but the only reply I got was the above and nothing else. By then MD spaced me.

I ahelped but as always Saegrimr advocates a certain playstyle and supports only what he accepts so I was not going to get any help from him although some of the arguments he had made sense: The AI cannot immediately respond or was interacting with other people in the station. That being said I was already dead and could read chat to know what is going on in the station. The AI has shown signs it received my messages from its earlier replies so I know it did not miss them (and I sent at least 3 requesting for help) It knew there was a risk I was going to be harmed if not already and yet it did not attempt to locate me nor notify anyone else like sec. There was no reason it could not have found me after that either because my sensors were maxed.

Why they should be banned:
I was killed and taken out of the round within 5 minutes because the AI is more interested in its valids rather than following its laws. Silicon policy states that the AI should not be denying law 2 requests to open doors with a few exceptions and none of the exceptions actually include the bridge or EVA (the bridge was for me and EVA was for another assistant that got fed up with the AI's denials and tried hacking the doors himself) This is also the reason why I point out Saegrimr supports only what he accepts and I won't be getting any help from him because despite pointing out the silicon policy, he insists the AI was right in not obeying the law 2 requests. Also there was the risk of a legitimate law 1 threat which the AI has ignored and showed no sign of acting upon or at least confirming. Both the evidence supporting the antithesis of law 1 and law 2 shows that the AI is incapable of playing silicons.

So while I am not asking for a ban for my death and ruined round, I would like for JefftheMighty to be banned from any silicon jobs at least because of his inability to follow his laws in preference of valid hunting and preventing crewmembers from legitimate actions according to his laws without a proper reason. Also ruined antag round fnr.

[Saegrimr]

I ahelped but as always Saegrimr advocates a certain playstyle and supports only what he accepts so I was not going to get any help from him

Passive aggressive jabs are always the best way to get what you want.
Relevant logs for whoever ends up handling this.

Spoiler:

[11:16:49]PDA: The Headsman (PDA: PDA-The Headsman (Mime)) sent "AI please open the bridge doors. I need the axe for my job." to Deep Thought (AI)
[11:17:01]SAY: Deep Thought: Atmospherics alarm detected in the Central Primary Hallway!
[11:17:52]SAY: Deep Thought: Assistant Dobbs, you do not have proper authorization to access this area.
[11:17:59]SAY: Deep Thought: Genevieve Weinstein has signed up as Shaft Miner.
[11:18:31]SAY: Deep Thought: Negative. Please do not commit self harm on your journey to receive the proper access forms.
[11:19:15]SAY: Deep Thought: Security will be informed of your impending suicide. Please, on behalf of Nanotrasen, do reconsider. You have so much to live for! Like [Insert Relative/Partner's Name Here]
[11:19:40]PDA: The Headsman (PDA: PDA-The Headsman (Mime)) sent "AI " to Deep Thought (AI)
[11:19:50]PDA: Deep Thought (PDA: Deep Thought (AI)) sent "Good morning." to PDA-The Headsman (Mime)
[11:19:55]EMOTE: The Headsman: <B>The Headsman</B> yawns.
[11:20:03]PDA: The Headsman (PDA: PDA-The Headsman (Mime)) sent "Open the bridge so I can get the axe" to Deep Thought (AI)
[11:20:10]PDA: The Headsman (PDA: PDA-The Headsman (Mime)) sent "Help sleep toxed." to Deep Thought (AI)
[11:20:25]PDA: The Headsman (PDA: PDA-The Headsman (Mime)) sent "Help" to Deep Thought (AI)
[11:20:47]PDA: Deep Thought (PDA: Deep Thought (AI)) sent "I am afraid you do not have proper access to Area: Bridge." to PDA-The Headsman (Mime)
[11:21:36]EMOTE: The Headsman: <B>The Headsman</B> appears to be gasping!

I personally don't see why any AI would let the mime have a fireaxe "for his job", maybe i'm overthinking the whole potential harm thing... You know like the guns in the armory.

His response.

Spoiler:

[11:33:45]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr->(Deep Thought): Hello, can I ask what your interaction with the mime was earlier on the bridge?
[11:34:09]ADMIN: PM: (Deep Thought)->Saegrimr: The mime asked to enter the bridge, and lacking authorization was denied.
[11:34:21]ADMIN: PM: Saegrimr->(Deep Thought): Did you get any messages about "help"
[11:35:00]ADMIN: PM: (Deep Thought)->Saegrimr: Help, spammed 3 times I think? I scanned around and didn't catch anything untoward so I assumed he was just being a dick.

[Antonkr]

>axe
>potentially dangrous
>requested by person to who does not need it for their job. (And no, mime is your real job)

Potential for harm

Overrides law 2

[elyina]

So you already handled this in game Saegrimr?

[Saegrimr]

I gave my input when it happened but Omnitricks wasn't satisfied and wanted to file a ban request for someone else to handle.

[Swagile]

uhhhhhhh

is this being moved to admin complaints or locked or what...

i know i am not involved but after saegrimr's response, it seems omnitricks is being left hanging

just saying

[peoplearestrange]

I've directed game admins to have a look at this.

[Antonkr]

I gave my input when it happened but Omnitricks wasn't satisfied and wanted to file a ban request for someone else to handle.

Game admin descsions on something being valid is final and typically if you disagree an admin complaint is the better place. Ban requests are made for when no admin is present or for some reason couldnt resolve the issue.

Lock this thread.

[callanrockslol]

>axe
>potentially dangrous
>requested by person to who does not need it for their job. (And no, mime is your real job)

Potential for harm

Overrides law 2

By your logic nobody should be allowed to use anything larger than a pen lest they hit someone with it, everything on the station is potentially dangerous and you can deny access to almost every room on the station. It's a tool, it just happens to be a heavy one.
This is a very terrible excuse as to not let someone into the bridge even though you have to under your laws and I would like to direct you to the very substantial silicon policy that might clarify some things.

[Antonkr]

>axe
>potentially dangrous
>requested by person to who does not need it for their job. (And no, mime is your real job)

Potential for harm

Overrides law 2

By your logic nobody should be allowed to use anything larger than a pen lest they hit someone with it, everything on the station is potentially dangerous and you can deny access to almost every room on the station. It's a tool, it just happens to be a heavy one.
This is a very terrible excuse as to not let someone into the bridge even though you have to under your laws and I would like to direct you to the very substantial silicon policy that might clarify some things.

Except that axes are able to cause far more harm then most other tools. Also, if the mime asked to get inside bridge in general and the AI refused, then yes it would violate 2, but in our case 1 was easily appealed to through the mime specifically asking for the axe.

[Pandarsenic]

The Fire Axe is a tool, not a weapon, in most situations. Unless you had prior reason to think he was going to take the axe to people's skulls, it's a tool with potential for harm, completely different from, say, a laser or an e-sword.