Brody Mason: Repeat Shuttle Calling as Non-Antagonist

[Arete]

Your byond account: Arete
Your character name: Ophie Schlange
Their character name: Brody Mason
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): (Not sure)
Server and time: Sybil, about 10:00pm to midnight PST
Logs and/or screenshots: Didn't take any screens, should be straightforward to investigate from server logs.
Description of what happened:

I was the CMO. Brody Mason was the HoP. The shuttle was being repeatedly recalled despite the crew being in agreement that it was time to go. I saw that the communications console board was missing and the windows to secure storage were intact. I went back to the bridge and rebuilt a communications console so that I could see the location of the next shuttle recall. It was the gateway. I went to the gateway and heard some construction being done (presumably the communications console being disassembled). Brody Mason came running out the door, and I attempted to subdue (edit: I guess I should clarify that by "subdue" I mean "kill") him. I failed, and he got away. Later, I confronted him again and he killed me.

Later, the shuttle was called with a 25 minute time, and that's what ended the round. Upon the round's end, I saw that Brody Mason wasn't an antag. I hadn't made any adminhelps that round, because it seemed obvious to me that repeatedly recalling the shuttle was antag behavior. In the post-round discussion, we decided to make a ban request thread for it.

Why they should be banned: Repeatedly extending the round without the crew's consent or even notification seems like a serious Rule 1 violation.

[Aleph]

I was the AI that round

He kept building hidden comms consoles and kept sneaking off to recall the shuttle every time it was called for no reason. He teamed up with Aile Mao (bread22) near the end of the round and bought a bunch of guns and I believe they killed one or two people. They missed the shuttle and got robusted by Oldman, in which bread22 started throwing a bitch fit in OOC about Oldman powergaming or somthing like that. He also kept denying that he was helping the HoP as well once the next round started

[Pinkled]

Your byond account: PinkledWrenis
Your character name: Pathetic Libido
Their character name: Brody Mason/Allie Mao
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): 22bread/NA
Server and time: Sybill, about 1am to 3am EST US
Logs and/or screenshots:

Description of what happened: Short and sweet. Shuttle keeps getting recalled by HoP(Body Mason), crew wants to go home. I find him in the hall with a critical CMO and a small group, by this point he and Allie Mao had been called out by multiple low ranking crew members as traitors. Find them hunkered down in cargo with eguns galore. When I try to enter cargo to dispense justice(thought they were traitors)Allie gunned me down with lasers before I could even enter then I was finished off by Brody with a fire axe.

Why they should be banned: Recalling the shuttle and stealing Communication boards so the crew cannot call the shuttle, murdering other players without consideration as non-antags.

[M0nsoon]

I was one of many clowns, Molesto to be exact

I was there to witness the Brody and Alie beat the shit out of the CMO, but to be fair he had an duel esword so that might be why Alie joined in to kill him.

At this point I tried to save the CMO but he was dragged back into the fray so I didn't want to mess with them and get myself killed as well, so once they left the body I dragged him to genetics where I got him cloned, this is where Robustin came in where we discussed and agreed that HoP must have been a traitor, after medbay though I fucked off to steal more clown masks so I don't know what happened after medbay.

[ExplosiveCrate]

I was the only cyborg that round and while I was busy most of the round running around the asteroid (and later maint, trying to find who was recalling the shuttle) trying to be as helpful as a mining borg can be, I did end up running into the HoP once with Alie in the cargo bay. They had bolted the doors there and made even more doors to bolt closed, even cut the AI control wire. I believe Alie straight-up told the HoP to "order guns" (which they did, apparently). Didn't see them again after that, was too busy dealing with other things, such as that one bluespace event that shunted a few people into space.

Also, I might be remembering this incorrectly but I distinctly remember the HoP denying that he had anything to do about it, or at least expressing confusion about why everyone wanted to kill him.

Stalling the round FNR for an hour ain't cool

[Laharl Monthy]

Round Stalling, double murder as non-antags...

Sounds pretty clear cut to me. I'll skim through the logs a bit first, however.

EDIT : Pathetic Libido gets lasered by Aile Mao/22bread at around 2:42:40 server time, on friday the 17th. At the same time, she gets also shot with pellets (A gun, I suppose?) by Brody Mason/douk. Brody then finished her with a fire axe. Stories seem to check out.
EDIT2 : skimming through the logs, Aile Mao kept repeating at multiple intervals "whiskey foxtrot bravo". Still trying to find out what the hell he was doing with that.
EDIT3 :

Aile Mao : Atleast we got our murderbones off a little
Aile Mao : With this fag

Ho wow. No comments.

EDIT3 : It appears that Douk did recalle the shuttle 3 times over the course of 20/30 minutes, which seemed to have indeed extended the round. The discussion logs between him and Mao also attest that they did construct at least another comms array in cargo. Forcefull apparently caught them both in the end, and Alie adminhelped because CJS was "griffing" them. I find this ironic.

I'd like the input of ForcefulCJS before coming to a final decision, however. I cannot find the second murder people have been talking about.

[twotwobread]

Ho wow. No comments.

I applaud your complete lack of neutrality Laharl, as everything you said was completely out of context, the quote you made of what was said was out of context, the comms array was there because I was sick of the shuttle being recalled, and the "double murder" was merely an act of a greytiding faggot trying to burst through my voice activated cargo bolt system™ which he succeeded in breaking, after he and various others had tried to murder the HoP (whom I had no reason to believe was under any wrongdoing).

"whiskey foxtrot bravo" was the voice command to bolt cargo doors, I had to change this from two other things after a cargo tech (who I had to ask the HoP to demote) abused the shit out of.
There were people trying to murder the HoP in the halls and I dragged him back to cargo, fixed him up, and slew the assistant or whoever the fuck was fucking with my doors and windows with an axe.

I just got done slaying spiders at a cargo shuttle that arrived thanks to the spider clan, then oldman robustin came and stomped our shit. I ahelped foolishly about Oldman Robustin, I thought the shuttle had not yet arrived after the 25 minute call, and I assumed it was 3 minutes to get on, when it had actually already departed.

Understandably there is the perception of wrongdoing on all sides, but this can easily be explained by the lack of knowledge that comes with relying solely on IN CHARACTER information.

[Douk]

Alright. I will try to address the grievances as best I can so people can understand the rationale behind my actions.

>Recalling the shuttle
The station was and continued to be in good condition during the period of shuttle recalls. We had not even reached the 1 hour mark, and one person or another would attempt to recall. Once I know was from the AI who was just doing it because of law 2 (which was not authorized by command staff), and another was by Oldman, who was a pretender captain of which I didn't just arrest on the spot (either for likely killing the captain, pillaging his body, or illegally taking his position) because I personally didn't want the job; I accepted him as a leader, but I was not obligated to obey him as a commander. In all cases, there was zero reason to leave outside of someone cutting one of the wires coming from engineering which caused a power outage (an easy fix which I told engineering about, but they didn't feel the need to do their job). I wasn't recalling to be a dick, I was doing it because there was still plenty of round to go around, and leaving would be a complete waste for everyone involved.

>Two murders
Not really murders. One was the CMO, which had come chasing after me with a telescope baton earlier (which I only responded with a single egun stun and retreated), and then later tried to kill me with a duel esword. That was likely the large public event which made people think I was a traitor (since CMO had mistakenly put away the esword when I stunned him), but I was just trying to defend myself. The other case was with some guy outside of cargo who nearly killed me once after a mob tried tearing me apart for killing the CMO. He found me again in cargo trying to recover, and tried breaking in. I open the door, and he waits around the corner. I go to confront him, and he attacks, so I shoot him with the combat shotguns the QM provided. Not quite the unprovoked assault that seems to be painted by some members of this thread, though I suppose there is some room for subjective interpretation depending on the known context (or lack there of).

>The murderbone joke
Admittedly toeing the line with OOC in IC, but it was more a comment on the fact that we had been constantly assaulted by validhunters looking to get their juicy kill on what they assumed to be a traitorous HoP.

>Comms console in cargo
Went unused, and wasn't actually build by me. Once the shuttle call set for 25min came around, even I thought it was pretty excessive. I wasn't going to recall and make the crew suffer through even more time than that. By that point, I could see people could not be expected to stand at their positions any longer and were beginning to mob up in the halls.

[Aleph]

The singulo was loose for over half an hour and you were still trying to recall it. Also the CMO found out that you kept recalling it from the construction site and thought you were a traitor, never mind you or bread trying to steal the comms boards to stop anyone from calling the shuttle again.

Everyone in OOC thought you were a traitor, and don't we have a 'you're valid if you act like an antag' rule? Nevermind you and/or bread kept denying that you recalled the shuttle the round after and got very defensive when the admins suggested to FNR what happened.

EDIT:

OOC: 22bread: I was with him but I didnt know his supposed crimes
OOC: 22bread: You guys were attacking the HoP and breaking into cargo like the grey tide shitters you were

[Douk]

The singulo was loose for over half an hour and you were still trying to recall it. Also the CMO found out that you kept recalling it from the construction site and thought you were a traitor, never mind you or bread trying to steal the comms boards to stop anyone from calling the shuttle again.

Everyone in OOC thought you were a traitor, and don't we have a 'you're valid if you act like an antag' rule? Nevermind you and/or bread kept denying that you recalled the shuttle the round after and got very defensive when the admins suggested to FNR what happened.

Funny thing about the construction site console actually. I don't think I even got to use it before an admin tried to destroy it with an anomaly. Managed to completely trash the room EXCEPT for the console (which only had a cracked screen) and the APC in maint. I really didn't have much intention of recalling until I realized the kind of challenge was put before me. Main comms consoles were already dismantled (not actually my doing surprisingly, I was just as shocked to see that as anyone else trying to use them), and I managed to repair the broken console with 10 seconds left on the clock. At that point, station was still in decent condition and workable (singulo wasn't released or anything yet), so I recalled and dismantled the console. I wasn't the only one with comms boards running around mind you: QM was the one to assemble the console in warehouse (which went unused), so the dismantling of the default consoles was the work of various 3rd parties.

Also I don't think I even spoke in OOC after the round ended. I just saw a lot of very pissed off people and waited around for a while for an ahelp to be sent my way. Bread might have spoken up, but I believe I was silent. I didn't participate in the next round either, so I don't know where that is coming from. As for "act like a traitor" rule, I don't really care that much that people tried to attack me, but I will not stand idly by and let myself be murdered, nor were my actions explicitly traitorous. The decision to recall or call the shuttle is not democratic by default. If that were the case, we'd probably leave the second ANYTHING goes wrong on the station. It is at the discretion of command staff to call or recall the shuttle (taking into account the crew's leanings on the topic as they see fit), and as I stated previously, captain was already murdered, which made me the official captain even if I didn't stop Oldman from pillaging the gear. There was no higher authority at that point: if the station was still workable and the round wasn't being extended into the 3rd hour or something, then recalling was a perfectly valid choice. It's not my fault if engineering is too lazy to fix a single cut wire or set up solars when singulo drifts into space; the SMES cells alone probably could have kept the station fully powered for another 30-45 min if they still maintained a proper connection. I let us leave when the arrival timer was set to 25 min because even I recognized that as more than enough (if not a bit excessive) time to play out the rest of the round.

Also, as a final note, consider the fact that CMO attacked me with a duel esword. His claims as to who is and isn't a traitor (from a hindsight OOC perspective) should be taken with a grain of salt in remembering that likely WANTED misdirection.

[Saegrimr]

I don't think I even got to use it before an admin tried to destroy it with an anomaly.

We actually can't tell them where to spawn (yet), they pick a random room.

[Pinkled]

>Two murders
Not really murders. . . The other case was with some guy outside of cargo who nearly killed me once after a mob tried tearing me apart for killing the CMO.

That is admission to killing two people, if you're still cant find the two murders, Laharl.

[Douk]

I don't think I even got to use it before an admin tried to destroy it with an anomaly.

We actually can't tell them where to spawn (yet), they pick a random room.

Oh. Took the challenge for nothing then. I just figured it was an IC way of destroying the console.

>Two murders
Not really murders. . . The other case was with some guy outside of cargo who nearly killed me once after a mob tried tearing me apart for killing the CMO.

That is admission to killing two people, if you're still cant find the two murders, Laharl.

Yes, but confirmed cases of self defense mind you.

[Arete]

For the record, I don't see myself being killed as an issue that requires OOC punishment at all. If 22bread really didn't have anything to do with extending the round, then there was nothing wrong with him figuring that the guy trying to murder his boss with a traitor weapon needed to be stopped. Though, given the information that was posted here and in the chat after the round, I have a hard time believing that he actually had no idea what was going on. If the round being extended so much actually bothered him, surely he would've asked his head of staff buddy what was up.

As for "act like a traitor" rule, I don't really care that much that people tried to attack me, but I will not stand idly by and let myself be murdered, nor were my actions explicitly traitorous.

This is really egregiously attempting to toe the line. You took the spare communications board without letting anyone else know, you recalled the shuttle without asking or even informing the crew of your reasons for doing so, you continually built and rebuilt the console to try to avoid detection, and you did all of this while fortifying your department and stocking up on weapons. These are not the actions of someone who thinks that other people will appreciate a longer round. These are the actions of someone who knows he's ruining everyone's fun and doesn't want to get caught doing it.

[Douk]

Like I said, the point of the recalls was not to ruin people's fun, quite the contrary really. The shuttle was essentially being called over fucking nothing, and we still had not hit a time in the round where there was nothing left to do. I couldn't really communicate why I did it, because comms were down for most of the time I was recalling, and when I realized that people WERE pissed about it (around the time an angry mob nearly killed me), that was the point I stopped recalling. That was the point I realized that, even if the station could still be salvaged and some fun could still be squeezed out of the round, the people had no interest and were willing to kill/destroy anything that would stand between them and ending the round.

Movement of the board is something I learned from experience to hide not from command or the crew, but the AI. I was more concerned about AI cutting power to the room I was in or bolting doors if I left a working console in one room because itself has decided it wants to end the round and will do anything in its power short of murder to carry out whatever stray law 2 order will allow for a uninterrupted shuttle call. Crew is seldom the problem: its AI's who have personal biases in the law 2 orders they do or don't follow, and I've had to play enough rounds with those kinds of players that I know a few measures to counter them.

Fortification and gun orders didn't go through until after I was done recalling, and it was purely to defend myself from the mobs who were still after blood. I wasn't even the one who personally ordered them, I just went along with it because, from a practical standpoint, it made sense to be armed enough to disperse a violent mob.

[Arete]

I just don't buy that at all. Getting a bounced radio is stupidly easy, especially as HoP. You could have walked a few steps to the nearest intercom. You could have used the communication console to make an announcement. You didn't do any of that. The captain going braindead meant you could theoretically be acting captain, but you were not acting in that capacity at all. Instead, you had decided that you were going to "take on" the crew by extending the round an hour past where everyone wanted it to end. Being HoP does not give you a license to grief the crew.

[Douk]

Here's the thing Arete. So long as the station is still in good condition and safety of the crew is still in good hands, its not my obligation to reach out to the crew in a gesture of democratic idealism. There is a point where the round must end simply because there is nothing left to do, but that is, in the end, at the discretion of the command staff to decide on a time. If they have grievances that they wanted to convey to me about the shuttle recalls, they could have come to me. Pretty easy too, I scarcely left my office the whole round, even between shuttle recalls. Had that mob just come to my window and said in a startling majority "we want to go home," I would have had no problem just letting the timer run down and ending the round. Instead, they support a murderous traitor CMO and attempt to lynch me in the hall over it. Same message came across, but if they really had a problem with it earlier, they could have asked. Besides, using a bounce radio or station-wide announcement would have run into the problem of only getting a small subset of the actual station population responding in an incredibly disorganized manner. What stray shouts are heard over the select few who have station-bounce radios is not representative of the station as a whole, quite the contrary. From a meta perspective, people who bothered to pick up those radios prior to a comms outage are likely the same powergaming crowd who WOULD demand shuttle calls if they couldn't find traitors to sate their valid murderbones on. Mind you, that's a whole heap of assumptions, but you get the idea that what would be communicated to me by that small group of people could not be a measure of a whole station's attitude. And once more, I was in my office. It was not hard to find me if they supposedly knew I was the one recalling, all they had to do was talk to me. Not everyone had a working radio, but just about everyone who still was relevant in the round at that point had working legs. Also, all references of the chain of command for this server explicitly state that, in case of captain death (not just brain death in this case mind you, I saw his bloodied corpse), the HoP assumes the captain role. It doesn't matter if you, as a crewmember, dislike me: that is the structure that is set up as a game rule before the round even begins.

I did not "take on" the crew by extending the round: that is assuming that I was taking an explicitly antagonistic role when recalling. That is an incredibly biased assumption that COMPLETELY ignores any sort of explanation I have given in favor of your own biased perspective. I understand that both perspectives need to be taken into account for deliberation and judging purposes, but at least some consideration and thought could be put into both sides if justice is to be achieved instead of vengeance.

[ExplosiveCrate]

. Had that mob just come to my window and said in a startling majority "we want to go home," I would have had no problem just letting the timer run down and ending the round.

The problem with that is that from what I can gather nobody even knew you were the one recalling the shuttle until after you were traced back to the gateway. By that time everyone (at least, everyone with a radio) only knew this:
1. Some asshole was recalling the shuttle
2. That asshole built his own comms console with a board clearly stolen from Secure Tech Storage
3. The console was relocated several times
4. The CMO, who nobody had seen perform any antagonistic actions, claimed that it was the HoP who was recalling the shuttle.
5. The HoP was nowhere to be seen prior to the events and never made any effort to communicate to the crew about his actions, even after the shuttle was called for the third time

And then people saw you and your buddy ordering weapons in a fortified cargo bay.

[Aleph]

You're trying as hard as you can to deny that you knew the singulo was out when you recalled the shuttle twice.

Also you never explained why you kept hiding a comms console without telling anyone and went as far to kill someone as a non-antag just because they found that you were recalling it in secret. You and Bread's behavior sounds too much like the old 'got caught griffing, better make up stories to dodge punishment' gig that keeps popping up every month or so.

Robust was perfectly valid in egunning both of you, hell he could of killed both of you and be still rulled valid because of your antag actions. A lot of people were angry in OOC that you were not an antag after what you did.

[Douk]

. Had that mob just come to my window and said in a startling majority "we want to go home," I would have had no problem just letting the timer run down and ending the round.

The problem with that is that from what I can gather nobody even knew you were the one recalling the shuttle until after you were traced back to the gateway. By that time everyone (at least, everyone with a radio) only knew this:
1. Some asshole was recalling the shuttle
2. That asshole built his own comms console with a board clearly stolen from Secure Tech Storage
3. The console was relocated several times
4. The CMO, who nobody had seen perform any antagonistic actions, claimed that it was the HoP who was recalling the shuttle.
5. The HoP was nowhere to be seen prior to the events and never made any effort to communicate to the crew about his actions, even after the shuttle was called for the third time

And then people saw you and your buddy ordering weapons in a fortified cargo bay.

I will try and address these individually:
1.) Alright
2.) I took a comms board because someone had dismantled the one that was in bridge shortly after the first recall. I never caught who did it though, so I built a new one in a separate location, and somewhere the AI wouldn't normally think to look just in case it was ordered (or just flat out wanted) to shut down the power.
3.) First time was because the room it was inhabiting at that point had been all but destroyed and required EVA to get to. Second time because, as the following events to it showed, the AI was scouring the station looking for the person who might recall and, had I left the console there, would have found me out far sooner than it did.
4.) Ditto
5.) Like I said, I was in my office most of that time. It was dark as hell since the lights in the main hallway were down, but power was still chugging along fine at that point, and I was still waiting for anyone to drop by for access changes or altering job slots. If anyone had a problem with it, they needed to come to me about it and actually ask. Not every command decision is going to be broadcasted, but they usually will be freely declassified if someone genuinely asks or voices it as a problem in a way that represents a majority or valuable opinion. I received none of that.

As for the ordering guns in cargo, that was AFTER the mob had nearly killed me in the main hallway. At that point, I couldn't return to my office, because AI had proven that it didn't give a shit about human harm and would have let the mob right in. Cargo, with some heavy weaponry accompanied, is actually highly defensible. I stayed there not as a nest for causing harm for the station, but as the only means to my own survival. I may have been captain at that point, and you could go on about how I have responsibilities to the station that needed to be fullfilled, but none of that can happen when you will be killed the moment you walk out the front door. I just waited out the extended shuttle call in cargo for the rest of the round because of this: I wasn't going to dare recall when it was so obvious to me that the crew wanted none of it.

You're trying as hard as you can to deny that you knew the singulo was out when you recalled the shuttle twice.

For one, by the last time I recalled the shuttle, I had just recently been in engineering to check the SMESs to determine why power wasn't being transmitted to the station properly. At that point, the singulo had not been released. It may have been so sometime between then and when the next comms console was assembled, but even then, there wouldn't have been much of a way of knowing while comms were still out. As far as I had seen by the last recall, the station was still in decent condition minus the need for a few minor repairs here and there.

Also you never explained why you kept hiding a comms console without telling anyone

I already said: someone had already dissembled the comms board in bridge while the station was still in it's prime and we had no reason to leave. If I had just rebuilt it there, the board would have been immediately removed, and whoever wanted it called would have just told AI to call it (mind you, AI already made it clear it wanted the shuttle called, and was willing to bias it's received commands to make that happen). Given prior experiences with evac-happy AIs, the last thing I wanted to do is be stuck in a bolted and powered down room because "Law 1" while the station is still in peak condition and crew harm is minimal.

and went as far to kill someone as a non-antag just because they found that you were recalling it in secret.

Again, not quite. Both CMO and the guy from the mob were both initial aggressors (CMO with baton AND later the dual eswords, and the mob guy nearly critting me when the CMO was taken down AND when he stalked and attacked me with an axe at cargo). I didn't give two fucks that they knew I recalled the shuttle at that point, but if they attacked me because they had grievances with such actions, they could have spoken up instead of attacking. Had they done that instead of going straight to attempting murder, they wouldn't have gotten their shit kicked in. ESPECIALLY in your case with TWO attempts at assault, one of which with dual eswords. How did you NOT expect to be killed.

Again, I would like to remind you that, once I had been dragged out of the angry mob, I did not recall again. I could have EASILY done it just before the 5 min mark and delayed the round for another hour if not more: Bread had made another comms console. But no, I didn't because that was the first time that, in their own apish way, the crew made it clear that they no longer wanted to be there. That was also around the time that I was informed about the singulo situation and, at that point, my criteria for "station must still be mostly intact" could no longer apply.

[Arete]

I didn't give two fucks that they knew I recalled the shuttle at that point, but if they attacked me because they had grievances with such actions, they could have spoken up instead of attacking. Had they done that instead of going straight to attempting murder, they wouldn't have gotten their shit kicked in.

This is complete bullshit. There's an intercomm in the gateway. You absolutely must have heard me shouting over the radio that the guy recalling the shuttle was in the gateway. If you wanted to have a discussion on the matter, that was your chance. After you got done disassembling the comms console you had built there, you ran. There was no chance to flag you down nonviolently, and you had made it completely clear that the only way you were going to stop was by force.

You completely shut down every method people could have used to talk to you about the issue. An HoP who goes out of his way to avoid talking to the crew at all isn't an acting captain. He's just some asshole with all access.

[Douk]

I didn't give two fucks that they knew I recalled the shuttle at that point, but if they attacked me because they had grievances with such actions, they could have spoken up instead of attacking. Had they done that instead of going straight to attempting murder, they wouldn't have gotten their shit kicked in.

This is complete bullshit. There's an intercomm in the gateway. You absolutely must have heard me shouting over the radio that the guy recalling the shuttle was in the gateway. If you wanted to have a discussion on the matter, that was your chance. After you got done disassembling the comms console you had built there, you ran. There was no chance to flag you down nonviolently, and you had made it completely clear that the only way you were going to stop was by force.

Except do you REALLY think that shouting over intercomms about a location and nature of a person that, as it turns out, is already on everyone's shit list is ACTUALLY going to have a chance at non-violent resolution? Hell, Arete's actions and account PROVE that peaceful negotiation was not going to happen. He came there to MURDER, and he had the tools to do so quickly an efficiently. Had I stuck around and tried to talk it out, he would have rushed in and murdered me on the spot with little hesitation or consideration. Even then if I did manage to talk the CMO down, there would have been no quick way of communicating this to the REST of the crew in a convincing manner before they too swarmed and murdered me, as they attempted to do mere minutes later. Yes I heard the comms broadcast my location, but the fact that it was spoken like a hunter pointing at game and letting go of the dog's leash, it was obvious that trying to talk down an angry mob from such a cornered location was SUICIDE. No, we KNOW it would have been suicide thanks to Arete. Sure, I might have been able to retreat to my office to send a station-wide message explaining my actions, but I was AGAIN chased down by the CMO and then by an angry mob before that could happen.

Given this, there were no realistic opportunities to try and calmly and logically communicate my reasoning. It was a moot point anyways, as I had no intention nor reason to recall the shuttle beyond that point (even when the means were made available again, I did not). That was the last shuttle call, and the rest of the round was basically spent huddled in cargo hoping that the mob doesn't break down the doors, which judging by the one guy who came by with the axe, they would have gladly done and did try. I could not leave again without grievously jeopardizing my own life to do so. The station was in anarchy and little could have stopped it at that point, my efforts would have been worthless. So, seeing as I could no longer remedy the situation, I resolved to seclude myself as to not make any tension worse.

[Aleph]

You didn't recall it because it was a 25 minute shuttle and thought that an admin would track you if you did it again.

Also we're still waiting for an answer as to why you were hiding the comms console, because it sounds like you were killbaiting.

[Arete]

If order on the station has collapsed to the point that people hearing your location on the radio is a death sentence, then the station is definitely not doing well enough that a shuttle recall is warranted, let alone a shuttle recall against the wishes of everyone who happens to be standing near an intercomm or carrying a bounced radio. You're the one that antagonized the station to the point that your life was in danger, and claiming that you had to start acting against the station once you put your own life in danger is borderline killbaiting.

[Douk]

You didn't recall it because it was a 25 minute shuttle and thought that an admin would track you if you did it again.

Again: baseless assumptions which completely fail to meet ANY middleground between our two positions.

Also we're still waiting for an answer as to why you were hiding the comms console, because it sounds like you were killbaiting.

I already told you. I had no intention of first recalling the shuttle in bridge, then the AI waiting for me to enter somewhere like the officer meeting room, and then bolting all the doors and cutting the power. Things like that where the AI goes long out of its way to fuck over anyone who tried to recall when it doesn't want a recall is, from experience, not uncommon, and a situation that the admins will not do anything about because TECHNICALLY its still allowed under law 1 (even if the station is mostly intact and total crew numbers are stable if not higher than round start).

If order on the station has collapsed to the point that people hearing your location on the radio is a death sentence, then the station is definitely not doing well enough that a shuttle recall is warranted, let alone a shuttle recall against the wishes of everyone who happens to be standing near an intercomm or carrying a bounced radio.

Except 4+ years of experience playing on this server would tell you that anyone who's going to make such a public event out of someone they don't like's location is probably not coming there with roses and cake. I was not born yesterday, I know a public call like that is one meant for violent action, and your own actions prove that. Up until that point though, no large group of people had communicated to me that they were staunchly opposed to staying on the station, and at the time, we still didn't have much reason to leave. By the time the call goes out over radio about getting to gateway, the last shuttle recall has already happened and can't be undone. Best I could do then is not recall it again, which I had no intention of doing nor did.

You're the one that antagonized the station to the point that your life was in danger, and claiming that you had to start acting against the station once you put your own life in danger is borderline killbaiting.

There's a difference between acting against the station and self defense. If I was acting against the station, I would have taken my guns from cargo and hunted down anyone who attacked me in that angry mob until they and anyone else who dared stop me was dead. But no, in all cases, I first attempted to disengage and THEN struck back. In your case, I stunned you during your initial chase, stood there a moment to let you know that no further action was to be taken, and left you. I could have lasered you to death right then if I was going off the notion of "acting against the station," but all I wanted was to get the hell out. It was only later that I killed you because it became clear that you were not going to give up your pursuits regardless of your supposed claims to want diplomacy. Diplomacy may have had a chance had you taken my sparing of your life in good faith and tried to actually flag me down non-violently. Instead, you come at me with eswords.
Same thing with the guy in the mob. He had his attempt to kill me in the main hallway, and I was willing to forgive him as well as those others who made the attempt on my life. It was the fact that he then proceeded to stalk me out later and attempt to violently pursue me that lead to his death. Notice that, outside of those who attempted TWICE to engage me, nobody else was physically harmed in this affair? You cannot fault me for diplomatic breakdown when you yourself had no intention for diplomacy. I at the very least gave you a non-verbal cue of good faith, especially given the circumstances of not having time at that very moment to stand around and talk it out given the impending mob.

[Arete]

By the time the call goes out over radio about getting to gateway, the last shuttle recall has already happened and can't be undone. Best I could do then is not recall it again, which I had no intention of doing nor did.

Why did you disassemble the console and take it with you when you expected a mob of people who were also opposed to further shuttle calling to take control of the area?

There's a difference between acting against the station and self defense.

You cannot say "I couldn't do the reasonable thing because I already escalated things to the point where doing the reasonable thing would get me killed." That's called killbaiting.

If I was acting against the station, I would have taken my guns from cargo and hunted down anyone who attacked me in that angry mob until they and anyone else who dared stop me was dead.

I believe that you were deliberately toeing the line. Saying "I could have been even more of a shit" does not cut it.

Diplomacy may have had a chance had you taken my sparing of your life in good faith and tried to actually flag me down non-violently. Instead, you come at me with eswords.

If diplomacy was going to happen, it probably would have been sometime before you extended the round for half an hour longer than necessary, while you were sitting in your office and listening to everyone talk about how they wanted the shuttle to arrive.

[Douk]

Why did you disassemble the console and take it with you when you expected a mob of people who were also opposed to further shuttle calling to take control of the area?

Because, as far as I knew, it was the last comms console board left on the station. If we didn't have that and the AI was dead, we wouldn't be able to even call the shuttle

You cannot say "I couldn't do the reasonable thing because I already escalated things to the point where doing the reasonable thing would get me killed." That's called killbaiting.

How exactly did I escalate things? Up until that point, there was no violent tendencies to speak of, and your only evidence against me being a traitor was the fact that you knew I recalled the shuttle at least once. When you took to violence, I showed that violence was not my intention and was letting it go. You then came back and tried it with MORE violence. I tried to de-escalate things from a situation that didn't and shouldn't call for violence in the first place. At best, you should have had security arrest me instead of trying to go in guns ablazing trying to get them sweet valids. While I understand and sympathize with your response, the cause and reaction you took are not equivalent. Had you attempted non/minimally-harmful methods FIRST to capture me and then resort to flat out killing after, then you might have a point.

I believe that you were deliberately toeing the line. Saying "I could have been even more of a shit" does not cut it.

You're missing the point. It's not a matter of "I could have done worse," it's a matter that how I handled the situation suggests a different intention than you are suggesting. If I wanted to killbait, there are far more effective ways of doing it that better satisfy the intention of validating murder. Both cases here were first physically initiated by someone else with attempt made first to retreat. Under virtually all real-world law accounts of self defense, it was valid if an attempt to retreat is first made.

If diplomacy was going to happen, it probably would have been sometime before you extended the round for half an hour longer than necessary, while you were sitting in your office and listening to everyone talk about how they wanted the shuttle to arrive.

And again, comms were down for most of the time that the shuttle recalls were happening. When they first started too, there still was the lingering issue that the round had not gone on that long and there was simply no REASON to leave outside of the AI calling because someone ordered it to via Law 2. Not to mention that there really weren't that MANY people complaining while comms were still up; no more than you'd expect of any shuttle recall and certainly not enough to believe a major shift in station attitude on the issue. I can possibly see grievances with the recalls after that point, but nobody communicated the problems and concerns beyond that point. And again, once they did (in their own, violent way), the shuttle was not recalled again.

[Arete]

Because, as far as I knew, it was the last comms console board left on the station. If we didn't have that and the AI was dead, we wouldn't be able to even call the shuttle

But that's exactly my point. You said that you were sure an angry mob was about to seize the gateway, and that this mob was adamantly against further shuttle recalling, so you feared for your life. If pro-ending-the-round group has taken the board, then there's no danger of the round not ending. Your stated motivations here are self-contradictory.

We're clearly talking in circles here. I'm going to make one last effort post on the subject, then leave it up to the admins to decide whether this was behavior that should be discouraged.

• From your office, you heard the crew discuss and decide to call the shuttle. Therefore, you were aware that you were repeatedly extending the round against the wishes of the crew. This is a clear enough rule 1 violation that we even penalize antags for doing it.
• You did not even attempt to roleplay out some other resolution over the radio. By your own admission, this was because you knew that giving up anonymity would better equip the crew to stop you. This kind of unilateral round disruption is unworthy of a head of staff.
• When you were found out, you believed the threat to your life was significant enough that you couldn't spare the time to talk. However, you did take the time to disassemble the comms console and take the board with you. This indicates that the chance to continue to grief the crew was more important to you than staying in the round.
• After your confrontation with me, you made no attempt to de-escalate the situation by, for example, admitting your conduct over the intercomms and surrendering your comms console board. Instead, you were content to continue to appear to be a traitor and focused your efforts on procuring weapons.

I think that this conduct shows complete unsuitability for head roles at the very least, and enough disregard for others having a good time to probably warrant further punishment too.

Addendum after going through the thread one more time to make sure I got everything:

the comms array was there because I was sick of the shuttle being recalled

>Comms console in cargo
Went unused, and wasn't actually build by me. Once the shuttle call set for 25min came around, even I thought it was pretty excessive.

So, there are three comms console boards on the station. One was in my possession when I died. One I had left behind after using it to get the message that the recaller was in the gateway. One was with Brody when he ran away from the gateway. Either someone is lying, or the comms console that did the 25 minute call must have been either Brody's or Aile's, right?

[Timbrewolf]

Decided to look into this because this argument has gone on long enough.

>Recalling the shuttle
The station was and continued to be in good condition during the period of shuttle recalls. We had not even reached the 1 hour mark, and one person or another would attempt to recall. Once I know was from the AI who was just doing it because of law 2 (which was not authorized by command staff), and another was by Oldman, who was a pretender captain of which I didn't just arrest on the spot (either for likely killing the captain, pillaging his body, or illegally taking his position) because I personally didn't want the job; I accepted him as a leader, but I was not obligated to obey him as a commander. In all cases, there was zero reason to leave outside of someone cutting one of the wires coming from engineering which caused a power outage (an easy fix which I told engineering about, but they didn't feel the need to do their job). I wasn't recalling to be a dick, I was doing it because there was still plenty of round to go around, and leaving would be a complete waste for everyone involved.

[02:10:09]GAME: Stu Alpha/(Mira 38p) has called the shuttle. (Oldman requested this call on behalf of the AI and stated a lack of communications were a threat to the station and worth leaving over)
[02:12:44]GAME: Douk/(Brody Mason) has recalled the shuttle. (No reason given)
[02:15:38]GAME: Arete/(Ophie Schlange) has called the shuttle. (By this point people had been asking the CMO to build a new comms console to call the shuttle with)
[02:20:26]GAME: Douk/(Brody Mason) has recalled the shuttle. (No reason given)
[02:25:27]GAME: Arete/(Ophie Schlange) has called the shuttle.
[02:25:51]SAY: Aile Mao/22bread : please stop abusing the shuttle call system
[02:26:09]SAY: Ironside/ExplosiveCrate : Please stop RECALLING THE SHUTTLE WHEN THE SINGULARITY IS FREE.
[02:27:42]GAME: Douk/(Brody Mason) has recalled the shuttle.


It's pretty obvious who was pulling the lever and who wasn't. I can look right at the radio chatter (a small snippet of which I've included for everyone else's benefit) and tell that more people wanted the shuttle called than didn't. I'm banning you from all head jobs for the next month because you're obviously not cut out for it if you think hiding in cargo with your buddy and playing shuttle relay is a benefit to the station.