Mathew Svensen(Lolnon) Ban Request

Hazardous012 · Post by **Hazardous012** » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:36 am #38007

Your byond account: Hazardous012

Your character name: William Harshman

Their character name: Mathew Svensen

Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Lolnon

Server and time: SS13: Server 2 (Sybil) @ 9:00PM - 10:00PM, 10/21/14

Logs and/or screenshots: http://pastebin.com/PPDvMvu5
(w/ Captain William Harshman, Warden Mathew Svensen, HoP James Jameson)

Description of what happened:
I joined midgame as the Captain: my name, William Harshman. I grabbed a grey jumpsuit, grey cap and black shoes, and then headed to the Captain's office. In the office, I placed my essentials in a backpack and left that on the counter; the rest of my items I carried with me or stocked in the locker.

My first confrontation was with the HoP, James Jameson. I entered his office, gave myself an Assistant ID, then left. He had asked me why I was dressed up as a grey shirt and I told him to shush.

Spoiler:

I walked over to the brig dawning my Assistant disguise and provoked the security. The first on the scene was Mathew Svensen, the Warden, who stunned and handcuffed me. He checked my inventory and saw that I had the captain's items, realizing that I was acting frivolous. He brought me into the interrogation room and pegged me to tell him I was a changeling. I lightheartedly told him I was and he took me over to the permabrig, removing my loyalty implant.

Spoiler:

For the duration of the round, I repeatedly implored to the HoP, HoS, and the Warden to restore my identity. The Warden maintained that I was not the Captain because I did not have my loyalty implant and over time the HoP turned on me as well, the both of them pegging me for a doppelganger.

At the end of the round my items were still not returned. The HoP was in no position to help and the Warden denied that I was the Captain. In desperation I stole his gun and shot at him, then resisted his efforts to subdue me multiple times. Mathew and James ran to the shuttle and I was cuffed so that Mathew could bring me along. Inside the airlock before the shuttle, he kept me for a few moments to wait out the timer. Then, he stunned me and entered, leaving me handcuffed outside the door. The shuttle escaped and Mathew had left me behind.

Spoiler:

End-round OOC comments.

Spoiler:

Why they should be banned:

For me to deny that I am at any fault would not absolve me of anything, so I’ll approach this as candidly as possible.

Yes, I did put on a greyshirt and fuck with security; and yes, I did humor the Warden during the short interrogation he gave. It was definitely and undeniably a less than professional thing for me to do. Being a hotly tempered prick throughout the ordeal certainly also didn’t help to convenience my situation either. My ban request lies in the simple fact that Mathew Svensen knowingly propagated this illusion of me being a traitor despite all evidence to the contraire. He sought out to depose me of my position for no apparent reason (as he wasn’t an antagonist) and in light of this I am very distraught at his unwarranted actions.

When I started out, I fancied myself with the notion of disguising as a grey shirt for a single reason: so that I could probe the station without the possibility of being recognized. My only stop was the security department, for the few moments I spent pacing about freely I attracted the Warden’s attention and prompted him to detain me. But after this, he knew that I was in fact the Captain, that I was wearing the Captain’s articles in my pockets and that I was superficially dressed as a greyshirt. Still, he continued on to interrogating me, asking questions that would suggest I was a changeling. I couldn’t’ve possibly figured he was seriously doing this malignantly, until he operated on me and removed my loyalty implant (afterwards he denies me ever having an implant).

For the entirety of the round I implored the HoP, HoS, or anyone I could find to do something. The HoP, who initially was behind me, knew that I was the Captain dressed as a greyshirt. Later on, he has his conviction shaken by Mathew, who turns the HoP utterly against me by the end. Only a few people were on my side, the bartender and CMO, who were both themselves adamant that I was the Captain. The Warden ignored all of their protests and didn’t bother to forfeit my items by any account. This lead to a few altercations where I attempted to seize his gun and fight back, but when the shuttle had left I was left stranded on the station handcuffed in the airlock. I felt that his actions would be justified by round end when it would be revealed that he was an antag, but he wasn’t. It is also made apparent that he was aware I was Captain all along by a few comments in OOC after the round end.

Please leave a comment if anything needs to be clarified.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:15 am #38179

Hm, yeah no.
The second you admitted to wanting to screw with sec was dicky. Pretending to be a ling made you valid.

I don't see anything done by security that round that would be worthwhile to be talked to.

Unless a headmin has anything to say, gonna call this one valid.

Hazardous012 · Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:02 pm

'Wanting to screw with sec" simply to screw with sec wasn't my intention. Had you read a bit further you'd see that I was dressed as a greyshirt to enter the brig and illicit a reaction discreetly and for diagnostic purposes. Though I informally humored the discussion over it with Mathew during our short interrogation, that grading scale that I mentioned was intended to be an applied indicator of their competence.

At no point did I pretend to be a 'ling. If I came off as such then it would've been utterly a misattribution on Mathew's account that could've been resolved were he not flagrantly griefing. If someone wants to make the jump and assume I'm a changeling without any grounds for it and with full knowledge that I was Captain (as Mathew knew from the start, reconfirmed by round end) then why should they be given prerogative to grief me? And also, though it's not shown in the logs, people were affirming that the game round was traitor and they went so far as producing items that could only be spawned in by syndicate at that time (e.g. a chameleon projector).

edited to remove comment

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:35 pm #38362

Hazardous012 wrote:'Wanting to screw with sec" simply to screw with sec wasn't my intention. Had you read a bit further you'd see that I was dressed as a greyshirt to enter the brig and illicit a reaction discreetly and for diagnostic purposes. Though I informally humored the discussion over it with Mathew during our short interrogation, that grading scale that I mentioned was intended to be an applied indicator of their competence.

At no point did I pretend to be a 'ling. If I came off as such then it would've been utterly a misattribution on Mathew's account that could've been resolved were he not flagrantly griefing. If someone wants to make the jump and assume I'm a changeling without any grounds for it and with full knowledge that I was Captain (as Mathew knew from the start, reconfirmed by round end) then why should they be given prerogative to grief me? And also, though it's not shown in the logs, people were affirming that the game round was traitor and they went so far as producing items that could only be spawned in by syndicate at that time (e.g. a chameleon projector).

edited to remove comment

I was dressed as a greyshirt to enter the brig and illicit a reaction
Which you did. Additionally, traitor+ling does exist, and you admitted on your own accord that you were a ling, even if you were not. A ling full well would be able to imitate a captain, as well as steal an implant. You put yourself in the situation to get a reaction, reaction you got.

Hazardous012 · Post by **Hazardous012** » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:21 am #38371

To address each point separately...

Antonkr wrote:'I was dressed as a greyshirt to enter the brig and illicit a reaction'..Which you did.

Are you saying that my dressing as a greyshirt was inherently bad? I stated that it was done for diagnostic purposes.

Antonkr wrote:Additionally, traitor+ling does exist, and you admitted on your own accord that you were a ling, even if you were not.

Yes, traitor+ling does exist, but throughout the duration of the round not a single changeling was found and not a single concrete report of changeling activity surfaced. The testimonial was in humor and ungrounded; my admission for the purposes of amusing Mathew whom I hadn't a clue would be plotting deviously at the time.

Antonkr wrote:A ling full well would be able to imitate a captain, as well as steal an implant.

My arrival on the ship was midgame. It would be absurd to think a 'ling could disguise himself as the Captain, steal his implant and all of his items, and end up in security (willingly) within the 2-3 minute timespawn he'd be given.

Moreover, defending Mathew's ignorance that I was the actual Captain is ludicrous: He stated himself that he knew I was Captain all along. Why defend someone then who uses ambivalence for his pretenses to be depraved?

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:52 am #38377

Antonkr wrote:'I was dressed as a greyshirt to enter the brig and illicit a reaction'

OOC knowledge is seperate from IC knowledge. OOC sure you would know that lings typically come in multiples (though believe it or not especially on low pop 1ling+6tators do exists)

You wanted to illicit a response from wearing a greyshirt and towing around captain's gear. You obtained the response. That was my point, nowhere did I assert that dressing as a greyshirt was bad, but dressing as a greyshirt to obtain a response, was what put you into the situation in the first place.

The testimonial was in humor and ungrounded;

Although I typically do not like up bringing real world comparisions into the game, admitting to being involved with an Islamist terrorist group, even as a joke when being interviewed by FBI would end you badly. Here you admitted to being a changeling, which I should probably remind you is a soul devouring, shape-shifting thing that can mutate, and mimic people. You once again, solicited a response, and you are making a ban request for the response you have got.

Moreover, defending Mathew's ignorance that I was the actual Captain is ludicrous: He stated himself that he knew I was Captain all along. Why defend someone then who uses ambivalence for his pretenses to be depraved?

Once again, IC knowledge is separate from OOC. There is nothing in the rules stating that you cannot play dumber then your true self is, in fact it is sometimes considered roleplaying. Sure, while persay on a server like Bay, someone would right away see people in blood red hardsuits and know they are lings, they would RP the situation out, and not say "; NUKE OPS AT BRIDGE", even if OOC they knew right away the situation. In this similar way, what he did was acceptable, but by /tg/'s different standards and expectations.

I'll forward this thread to HBL for review if he has anything to add.

Hazardous012 · Post by **Hazardous012** » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:42 am #38379

Antonkr wrote:OOC knowledge is seperate from IC knowledge. OOC sure you would know that lings typically come in multiples (though believe it or not especially on low pop 1ling+6tators do exists)

You wanted to illicit a response from wearing a greyshirt and towing around captain's gear. You obtained the response. That was my point, nowhere did I assert that dressing as a greyshirt was bad, but dressing as a greyshirt to obtain a response, was what put you into the situation in the first place.

It wasn’t a low-population server at the time. Nearly 60+ people were on it, your assertion that only 1 ‘ling would be around is unlikely. ICly practically everyone drives on this information no matter how metagameish it is, and when everyone infers something then it is solemn mentioned aloud.

My point is that the response is gratuitous and should be brought to the administration’s attention. This prevailing sentiment in SS13 that you wrought about your own punishment is detrimental to moderation, especially when admins brush over your problems since on some tenuous arbitrary level you deserved it.

Antonkr wrote:Although I typically do not like up bringing real world comparisions into the game, admitting to being involved with an Islamist terrorist group, even as a joke when being interviewed by FBI would end you badly. Here you admitted to being a changeling, which I should probably remind you is a soul devouring, shape-shifting thing that can mutate, and mimic people. You once again, solicited a response, and you are making a ban request for the response you have got.

I don’t think your example applies, that situation and this situation are very different. When the FBI interrogates a randy over his involvement in a terrorist organization, it is on professional terms and with superiors gleaning over every detail to the nub, giving the interrogator a definitive incentive to do things by the books. Despite your conviction otherwise, the interaction between a Captain and his Warden (especially in those circumstances) would be much less warranting of obstinacy. It was also assumed in both parties that I was the Captain, a resolution that Mathew betrays in the following comment:

Spoiler:

At this point, he knew undoubtedly – and ICly - that I was the Captain.

Antonkr wrote: Once again, IC knowledge is separate from OOC. There is nothing in the rules stating that you cannot play dumber then your true self is, in fact it is sometimes considered roleplaying. Sure, while persay on a server like Bay, someone would right away see people in blood red hardsuits and know they are lings, they would RP the situation out, and not say "; NUKE OPS AT BRIDGE", even if OOC they knew right away the situation. In this similar way, what he did was acceptable, but by /tg/'s different standards and expectations.

No need to reiterate the fine line between IC and OOC, I know. My point is that he wasn’t only aware OOCly, he was also aware ICly. Yet he still persisted in snubbing me out and keeping me a lowly assistant. Don’t let him illusion you into seeming ignorant, he was certainly disposed to ruining my shift.

peoplearestrange · Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:36 pm

It's been nearly a month since this was started. I'm going to go ahead an archive this.
If you want to re-open this topic please PM me or another admin.

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