Jack Steiner: Releasing the singularity as non-admin

[bandit]

I honestly wasn't going to do this because a jobban has been applied, but a lot of people told me I should make a thread requesting a ban-ban, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I'm not sure whether this should go in Admin Complaints or here but because it did not involve any admin interference I'm going to put it here.

Your byond account: bgobandit
Your character name: C.L.O.W.N. the Engineering Cyborg
Their character name: Jack Steiner
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Stickymayhem
Server and time: Sibyl, about 5 PM Eastern
Logs and/or screenshots: Partial logs below, don't have full logs, sorry, but there are witnesses

I was a roundstart cyborg doing normal cyborg things, getting upgrades, pinging, that good shit.

Suddenly I hear reports over the radio that the CE, Jack Steiner, is in the process of building a second singularity in engineering next to the first one. Literally every time I've seen this happen it inevitably results in that singularity getting loose within minutes, particularly now that the new singularity is a fucking speed demon, and occasionally it results in the first singularity being released as well, causing chaos and horror and large amounts of human harm. So I do what any Asimov borg would have to do: I go down to engineering to check out the situation. I see they've got a field gen out, drag it off, take it to the HoP office (I could've taken it to the captain but the station was in agreement that the captain was a massive comdom), tell the HoP to protect it, he's like "ok."

Head back to engineering, and the engineers are welding down the walls south of engineering, opening the area to space. A few people were in hardsuits but I don't think everyone was. Again, as an Asimov borg I am obliged to fix this, so I go engiborg (in retrospect I probably should have gone secborg and arrested them, but I honestly wasn't expecting it to escalate), take out the metal and RCD modules and rebuild the walls and call security to the area. (It should be noted here that the AI didn't think the situation was that bad, but in my view it was a case of wildly probable future harm (two sings) plus immediate harmful conditions (hull breach). From what I could tell most of the station besides the handful of engineers was against the dualsing being built.)

This goes on for a while of the CE and engies welding down the walls / my rebuilding them until the CE chain-flashes me, drags me to the solar and pushes me off into space. I announce that I've been spaced, fiddle with my modules (I think I'd wasted my third slot on a crowbar or some shit) to try to get my fire extinguisher module out but because I'm flashed it doesn't work. I think the flash finally wore off just before I fell off the z-level, so I did in fact make it back, but it took a while.

By this time security has arrived. There are more engineers than officers so the thoroughly unsurprising happens, i.e. the officers try to stun/taze the engineers while the engineers sax and try to disarm the officers, the CE helping out with his telescopic baton that I drag away from him, then the CE escapes into the SMES room and welds the door. Security gets the engies under control then I unweld the door to find that the CE has dismantled all three SMES units. Security arrests him, I try to fix the SMES but I can't because the powercells are out and IIRC an engiborg can't do shit about that, so I leave the room and am greeted by the approaching maw of Lord Singularity, released by the CE. It eventually kills me and a lot of others as well as destroying a large chunk of the station because the new singularity is a horrifying destruction beast. The CE gets killed too and in deadchat he says that I was "ruining people's fun" and that the released singlo was my fault:

DEAD: Jack Steiner says, "It literally only got loose because of you"
DEAD: Cory Dennis says, "this is why I hate silicons"
OOC: Skasi: the one for geneticists, cmo, doctors and chemist
DEAD: C.L.O.W.N. says, "no, it only got loose because YOU CROWBARRED THE SMES"
DEAD: Cory Dennis says, "remove borgs, remove AI"
DEAD: Jack Steiner says, "If you hadnt called for an engineering crackdown second singuloth would be go"
OOC: Deusgola: .h? Doesn't work
OOC: Skasi: sure does
DEAD: Jack Steiner says, "Dude just don't be so fucking antifun"
OOC: Axon man: Isn't it :h
DEAD: C.L.O.W.N. says, "just don't release the sing :^)"

Round ogre, CE is non-antag. Shit gets called an IC issue.

Why they should be banned: SO basically there are two possibilities here, the CE released singlo on purpose or the CE did it by accident. Deliberately releasing the singularity as a non-antag is unacceptable escalation under pretty much all circumstances. Even if we give Jack Steiner the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn't know what the SMES does (despite being an experienced player who has played engineer many times), accidentally releasing the singularity as a non-antag is still bannable, especially if it kills a large amount of people / destroys a large portion of the station, which this did. Plus, his explanation of "wanting to take the power hostage" is not exactly kosher behavior.

Jack Steiner did in fact receive an engineering jobban for the above. But a lot of the behavior here, including prioritizing a few players' "fun" over the fun of everyone who doesn't want to be eaten by lord singuloth (in deadchat I compared it to shutting down guncargo being called "ruining fun"), plus my getting spaced while incapacitated, plus the absolutely insane escalation, plus his rationale of "wanting to take power hostage" as a non-antag, toes if not outright crosses the Rule 1 line and deserves at least a dayban if not more, based on precedent.

I should also mention here that I don't have a problem with Sticky as an admin and if anything was positively disposed to him today (a spontaneous gimmick when I played mime happened that I thought was cool). This is purely about the behavior involved.

[leibniz]

What made you think that the second singulo would get released?

[bandit]

A combination of experience (literally 100% of the times that I can remember that a second singularity has been built it has gotten loose within minutes -- even if people know what they are doing it is dodgy), location (the second sing was gonna be right next to the first one, so if one got loose the other would be highly likely to get loose as well), code updates (the singularity is much more dangerous now by orders of magnitude, and some setups that worked before may not work now) and the situation (engineering staff generally acting suspicious and un-reassuring about the whole project and its likelihood to cause harm)

[leibniz]

A combination of experience (literally 100% of the times that I can remember that a second singularity has been built it has gotten loose within minutes

Anecdotal.

the situation (engineering staff generally acting suspicious and un-reassuring about the whole project and its likelihood to cause harm)

Suspicious how?

[bandit]

It may be anecdotal but it's happened often enough for me to say that it's generally a bad idea, especially at roundstart and clandestinely (I can see people being bored an hour into the round and getting the captain's approval and an official announcement). I can't exactly provide logs of every time the "Hey Guys I've Got An Original Idea, Let's Build a Sing!" routine resulted in mass destruction but not too many people were thrilled at the prospect despite the handful of engineers.

As for the "suspicious how," to my knowledge there was a lot of "fuck off borg" attitude and eventual spacing/interfering and not many attempts to reassure me that it was on the up-and-up. I honestly thought it was going to turn out to be an antag thing. I never got BWOINKed or anything for any of this, so there is that.

And even if it was totally on the up-and-up and I shouldn't have interfered, that doesn't justify attempting to space me and definitely doesn't justify deliberately taking actions that released the sing. (Come to think of it, now that I remember, he'd said something like "I thought there was a 5-minute window" (between dismantling the SMES and the sing getting loose), so the possibility had to have crossed his mind.)

[leibniz]

It may be anecdotal but it's happened often enough for me to say that it's generally a bad idea, especially at roundstart and clandestinely (I can see people being bored an hour into the round and getting the captain's approval and an official announcement). I can't exactly provide logs of every time the "Hey Guys I've Got An Original Idea, Let's Build a Sing!" routine resulted in mass destruction but not too many people were thrilled at the prospect despite the handful of engineers.

As for the "suspicious how," to my knowledge there was a lot of "fuck off borg" attitude and eventual spacing/interfering and not many attempts to reassure me that it was on the up-and-up. I honestly thought it was going to turn out to be an antag thing.

From what I heard, engineers were working together on a project and you were interfering, it isnt really suspicious and it is natural that they told you to fuck off in reaction.
I think you kinda pushed the boundaries of rule 1 and asimov with this one, but you have a passable law 1 excuse.
This game isn't Safety Station or a desk job simulator where you just do your little work then go home at the end of the day. People tried to have fun and you stomped it out.
Your law 1 concerns were understandable, but maybe a better approach would have been assisting in the construction and making sure it is done properly and safely. The things that would get the second singulo loose are the same that get the first one loose, so you just need a secure containment.

Regarding sticky, it is technically stillchr's ban so it is up to them.

[Ikarrus]

Head Administration is going to be handling this as we would handle any other player. Thus, we find that a 4-day engineering jobban is far too lenient for an experienced player.

Weekban has been issued for stickymayhem.

The engineering jobbans have been replaced with a permanent jobban.

Thank you for your report.