Van Skorvold, greytiding as lawyer

[Thunder11]

Your byond account: Thunder12345
Your character name: Jazmin Malcovich
Their character name: Van Skorvold
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Skorvold

Server and time: Badger, 5:00 PM - 6:00 PM GMT, Jan 4th

Logs and/or screenshots:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/896 ... 0pm%29.htm
Log from Chris Jowers, since I had to go AFK about 5 mins before the shuttle arrived and forgot to save mine.

Description of what happened:

Started with Krystal Symers (Who was a traitor) poly aciding the HoP, Sibyl Secutie (Key unknown). After Sibyl gets the spare ID and replaces her equipment, she gives me (The bartender) and Chris Jowers (The chef, ckey is Torsion) permission to arm up and arrest her. After a firefight leading from the west hallway into medbay, resulting in Chris and Van (The lawyer) being critted by lexorin darts from Krystal's syringe gun, we manage to detain her, and after some discussion, decide on implant removal surgery, followed by permabrigging. Van takes Krystal to surgery and removes an uplink implant, after which we leave her in perma. Me and Chris head back to the bar, and get blown up by a mousetrap grenade hidden under the door, presumably left by Krystal, and are both critted. After being healed in medbay, we're told Sibyl, as acting captain, has decided to execute Krystal at perma. And this is where the shit starts.

Me, Chris, Sibyl and Van enter perma, stun baton Krystal, and drag her to a perma cell, which Chris tosses another of Krystal's mousetrap grenades into. Van starts pushing people around to keep us from executing Krystal, eventually tasing me and Chris, and fleeing perma with Krystal. I chase them to the chapel, take a couple of wild shots with my shotgun, and miss both. I try to stun them with my baton, Van manages to tase me, takes my baton, and flees. After another chase they end up bolted in the gravity generator room. Chris tries, with no success, to hack the door, so I get a toolbox and gloves to try it, at which point Sibyl suicides, saying she "can't do this anymore".

I try to take her gear, at which point Francis rushes up and starts shoving me, takes Sibyl's flash, flashes me, and when I manage to strip Sibyl's ID, runs away, taking the corpse with her. I eventually catch up and try to grab the corpse off her, and she flashes me and takes the ID as well. After chasing her again, she finally understands what's going on, and gives me Sibyl's stuff back.

I head to sec to get a gun, at which point the AI bolts the sec office doors, saying it won't let me into the armoury. After argunig with it for a minute or two, the AI calls the shuttle and I head over to cargo, and return with the QM to use as a fake hostage so I can law one my way into the armoury to get a taser. By the time I do this, and get back to the gravity generator, Van and Krystal have already escaped. I quickly check the arrivals pods for them, and then, since I had to go AFK, suicide out of despair, giving the taser and ID to Chris. At round end, Krystal won because of Van letting her out, and he wasn't a traitor.

Why they should be banned:

Aiding an antag as a non-antag, after said antag tried to kill several people, and stating in OOC he'd do the same thing for anyone else "OOC: Skorvold: Torsion, I would have saved you had you done it.", and being basically a greytider with access and weapons.

Note that Van had volunteered to do sec work earlier in the round, and was given sec access by Sibyl.

[Remie Richards]

Sibyl here.

After being healed in medbay, we're told Sibyl, as acting captain, has decided to execute Krystal at perma. And this is where the shit starts

This sounds bad to me, like it's coming off wrong, so I'll clarify, I had not decided to execute Krystal, Chris requested it after the bombing due to that being something more worthy of an execution.
I wasn't really acting captain, I used to captains spare to produce an ID of HoP permissions again and then left it in my console for convenience.

and if it needs clarifying (maybe it does, maybe it doesn't) but the suicide by myself was just to spice up the round since everything was pretty dramatic, and I didn't really mind just bowing out of it at that point.

[Ikarrus]

This isn't what I'd consider greytiding, but it could be seen as an abuse of security privileges given to Van that round.

I'll direct Skorvold to this thread to get his defence and go from there.

[MMMiracles]

As it should be noted, I was the antag in this situation, so my side may be a bit bias.

It started with 3 failed polysmoke grenades in attempt to kill the HoP, followed by you and Chris coming at me with stun batons and incen shells (even though you were told to arrest, not kill?). The standoff in medbay ended with one lexorin syringe hitting Chris and the other accidently hitting Van when I was aiming for you. When I was getting perma'd you and Chris felt the need to be up security's ass about my arrest and pushing implant removal for the reasons of 'just because' (which is meta-y as fuck). Chris' meta sense was proven true after taking my ID and finding the implant box in surgery where he felt the need to gloat about a bit. Implant removed and thrown in perma. You guys go off to celebrate and trip the potassium grenade I forgot about (the snippit of chat from that is pretty funny imo due to the leadup)

Growing my dank and grass you two come in with:

Spoiler:

Chris Jowers asks, "HEY BITCH, GUESS WHAT?"
Jazmin Malcovich says, "HIYAH KRYSTAL"
Chris Jowers says, "YOU'RE FUCKING DEAD."

Attempt at grenade execution because for some reason a chef and bartender do these things now. Van grabs me and hauls ass away, during this entire manhunt he never actually did anything lethal while you two were hacking into the armory and shouting over commons how you were going to kill us, which prompted the AI to start bolting you in and trying to keep you away, which prompted you guys to keep insulting the AI for being stupid for following its laws or something. Fun things come out of this like:

Spoiler:

[Common] Jazmin Malcovich [Bar] says, "AI, LET ME THROUGH TO THE ARMOURY"
[Common] Jazmin Malcovich [Bar] says, "OR I KILL THE HOSTAGE"

The rest of the shift consisted of you two breaking past the AI's attempts to contain you while hunting us down because apparently my death is going to solve the station's problems, especially all the hell you've both put yourself through trying to get us. I honestly don't know why he would go for my defense so quickly, maybe it was because you two were so eager for the valids that you'd break through the AI's defenses just at a chance at killing me.

I'll note that Chris was armed with the armory at the end of the round duel-wielding adv tasers with ablative, which is a little odd for a chef.

From my perspective, it was just two angry crewmembers who felt the need to take the law into their own hands and get their valids on because they had nothing else better to do, but then again, I was the antag, so my views probably a little bias.

[Skorvold]

Hello. Van here.

I did just about everything described above, but I think the bigger picture is being missed here.

Round start, I'm the lawyer. Seeing as there isn't a courtroom on Efficiency Station I begin to commit my round to renovating a small room behind my office and then eventually my office as a whole. Now, half way through these renovations I hear the HoP, Sybil, talking about a grenade being found under a balaclava. I suggest that she get a scanner and scan it for prints while I try to figure out who could have done this. I immediately point blame at Krystal and go straight to her workplace to accuse her of such, though without the prints yet nobody takes action. A few moments later the HoP has the prints and questions Krystal, asking her why her prints were on a grenade near her office. For whatever reason that's all ignored for that grenade. I check in on the HoP via PDA once or twice and then continue messing with my office. Another grenade happens and fries all of her clothes off. I dump my lawyer locker near the HoP area to offer her some clothes and then I fuck off back to my Office, deciding to decon the doors and put up a hidden wall and just pretend like it's not even there. Just as I finish these renovations, I hear gunshots outside of my office. I open the hidden door and see 2 incendiary shells wiz right by my face in an attempt to hit Krystal, who has the Bartender and Chef on their tail. I follow them up to the Medical Bay and try to talk them into Permabrigging Krystal, but the Chef insists that she has an implant in her, and we later find an implant box and I personally extract the implant from her. With the AI's assistance I permabrig her and ask for more access from the HoP so I can keep an eye on her. I go afk in a nearby locker and when I come back I find I have a PDA message stating that they are going to execute her for a bomb she placed in the bar. I think, okay, fine. Maybe I can talk the HoP out of this. Except, when I head up to the permabrig I don't see any type of Security or Command official laying out a proper execution, I see a Chef and a Bartender entering the brig to give Krystal a lynching, neither of them willing to take a moment to talk this out. I attempt to push past them and drag Krystal out of her cell and back into the Permabrig hub area, telling them to wait and that we could talk this out. They refuse to listen and stun me. In turn, I tase both the Chef and Bartender and take off with Krystal in tow. Meanwhile, the Chef is immediately calling me a traitor and screaming for my blood because I wouldn't let him get his valids. The AI assists us as the two were dumb enough to state murderous intentions on the public radio and we hide in the grav gen area while they try to hack and wall in. Eventually the AI lets us out so we take off again, I hack into Xenobio and tell her to wait there whilst I procure an EVA suit. During this the Chef catches up to me and stuns me, I taunt him telling him if he kills me he won't find Krystal, and I manage to escape him again. The shuttle is a few sparse seconds from leaving the station so I order the AI to allow me into Xenobiology so that I can retrieve Krystal, I then take her to the Security Pod and we ride out safely, thus ending the round.

I never took up a role as a security officer, I asked for extra access to keep an eye on a dangerous criminal as I knew that this perma was easy to escape from. The chef/Torsion bitched in OOC about how I should be banned and how I suck and how Krystal is my metafriend etc. I muted OOC and tried to end things in a polite manor by telling them that if they wanted to they could make a ban request and I would receive the same punishment as any other player.

A thing I forgot the mention, when the execution was mentioned I told Krystal to simply kill herself, so I could then put her brain into something else and shove her back into perma.

I tried my best to be non-lethal and succeeded in doing so, I think killing people in excess is ridiculous, as it accomplishes nothing other than removing more players from the round. My attitude as an antagonist and towards other antagonists reflects this well.

[Skorvold]

Had you not been in such a murderous rage, I could have probably got her to the shuttlebrig.

[Vekter]

I'll handle this once I get home in a few hours. If someone else wants to get it first, by all means.

[Ikarrus]

Executing antagonists is not a right, especially one that's already in security custody. Not carrying out the execution formally with the relevant authorities present will lead to disagreements like this, which I consider to be entirely IC.

If the Commanding Officer of the station had authorized the execution, they need to make it clear, and if possible, be present to avoid situations like this. But it sounded like the chef and barman were out for blood and, instead of talking it out, escalated the disagreement to an exchange of stun shots.

Unless there is a detail I'm missing, I'm going to declare this an IC issue due to a failure to communicate.

[Donk Honk]

Lindsay here and sadly I was a witness to a lot of this, even though I didn't want to be.

From what I recall, Krystal was traitor and many of the things done were traitor worthy. I didn't care for most of it though because I was playing B-Ball with the HoP at the time. Afterwards I spend some time running about to hear about the HoP area getting hit. Run down to see with the others and find grey goop everywhere. Assumptions are easy to make with Krystal being a chemist and things being said.

I shrug it off and try to stay alive. Then Krystal gets arrested in medical [mind you after a shoot out with incendiary rounds], I had no doubt she was a traitor or being arrested. However the first thing that strikes me as bad is Chris Jowers starts babbling about "Lets burger her!" so I immediately text the HoP/Captain saying "can you get down to medbay before mob justice is enacted here?"

Add this to everyone following to brig to watch the show or shout opinions. The whole time this is all that comes out of Chris Jowers mouth. Anything anything gib her. Anything anything burger her. Anything anything are you a fucking idiot? I just watched and waited to see Chris try to disarm at some point, laughing it up a bit at how actually desperate he was. Especially with the implant. If it wasn't burgering her it was taking an implant off.

Then it gets over board. Explosion happens [I had no idea it was Krystal and even asked if anyone was investigating to see if it was her. It was but still god knows! We had a decent sized crew to suspect things] After this its just Jazmin and Chris shouting for blood after the call for execution comes out. I figure at this point Krystal is gonna die in perma via injection. NOPE not good enough for the lynch party who proceeds to yakkity sax it around the station until they hide in the grav gen room [Which mind you is never sabotaged as Chris Prowers proudly states over the radios looking for any excuse he can to get blood.]

I understand killing traitors, I understand the lynch mob tactics for low pop rounds without sec or heads to help handle things. I just find this sad just the amount of desperation used just to end get rid of one traitor from one person namely and that being Chris. I expected hunter tactics from Jazmin but Chris was the one instigating a lot of this with calls for burgering her and just continually badgering anyone with power to just murder her.

Bad round and I hated every second of it and hope I'm never part of another one like it.

[Thunder11]

Executing antagonists is not a right, especially one that's already in security custody. Not carrying out the execution formally with the relevant authorities present will lead to disagreements like this, which I consider to be entirely IC.

If the Commanding Officer of the station had authorized the execution, they need to make it clear, and if possible, be present to avoid situations like this. But it sounded like the chef and barman were out for blood and, instead of talking it out, escalated the disagreement to an exchange of stun shots.

Unless there is a detail I'm missing, I'm going to declare this an IC issue due to a failure to communicate.

Sibyl was there in perma for the execution though,

[Ikarrus]

Alright, after reviewing the evidence and witness recounts, and after consulting with the other head admins, I'm ready to render a judgement on this matter.

I find that Van went over the line for what is acceptable when he defied a legitimate order from the station's then-commanding officer to execute what basically amounts to a terrorist.

Although he was never formally made into a security officer, he was still given security access and equipment to act as one, which he did so prior to the break out. If you want to act as security, you will be held to the same standards as security.

So what happened here was that Van so strongly objected to the legitimate execution of a known terrorist and murderer, that he directly assisted in her escape while acting as an officer though force of arms. I find that his reasoning, while understandable to an extent, crosses the line from conscientious objector into enemy combatant, and is thus insufficient to justify his actions.

I am issuing a jobban from security and lawyer to Skorvold for a period of one week. If you want to continue this discussion you will need to post a ban appeal, or PM a headmin.