Ban Request: Geneticist banbaiting sec (monkey DNA and riot)

[Steelpoint]

Bottom post of the previous page:

So from what I read from the logs, the Geneticist was going out of his way to NOT do his job of cloning people, as well as charging and threatening to kill and/or monkey anyone (including Security) if they attempt to enter his department to do his job that he is failing to do.

Skipping everything else that happened (The whole part of the Geneticist attacking and buckling the Officer) the Head of Security, leaves the station and transfers authority to a ambiguous third party (Red Lizard Guy). So at this point the HoS has willingly given away his power for a while and can no longer fully assess the situation.

Imo I honestly think the Officer in question, the OP, was simply doing what he thought was best at the time. With the Brig and Perma Brig compromised and vented/toxic he was left with no real options. He could not risk leaving someone who has demonstrated clear hostile/lethal intent somewhere that is no secure but there is no where secure to put him.

The Geneticist had it coming, and the ban against the OP was erroneously placed.

[TheNightingale]

From the perspective of Space Law, the Geneticist did as follows:

- 301 - Assault with a deadly weapon (monkeying someone = just as bad as, if not worse than, murdering them. Attempted murder is also a possible charge.) - 5 minutes
- 302 - Assault of an Officer (ditto, plus disarming and punching) - 5 minutes
- 307 - Sabotage (refusing to clone the huge pile of bodies - a charge for Mutiny would be possible, if a little odd) - 5 minutes
- 210 - Breaking and entering (indirect; the SO had to smash the windows because of him) - 2 minutes

That's seventeen minutes, not including the charge for attempted murder. Put Mutiny in there (for refusing to clone the Captain, and assaulting Security) and it's seventeen minutes with a capital crime. I've always believed, should an execution be lawful (i.e. a possible punishment under the law) but unauthorised by the Captain/HoS/Warden (in that order), that it's an IC issue (that is, something the HoS/Captain should handle)?

(Sticky, it's icky)

[bandit]

(Anon3 amendment, etc, etc)

There is also 311 - Dereliction of Duty: to willfully abandon an obligation that is critical to the station's continued operation. Cloning would very much qualify.

[MrStonedOne]

To everybody crying that the security officer shouldn't have gotten banned.

He had the geneticist in cuffs, and was told not to execute by the hos. Had either of those two things not been the case, this would have been another story.

[rdght91]

Which is why I asked him. And he said "yes." But it didn't mean yes, apparently. That's in the appeal thread.

[Malkevin]

To everybody crying that the security officer shouldn't have gotten banned.

He had the geneticist in cuffs, and was told not to execute by the hos. Had either of those two things not been the case, this would have been another story.

So what you're saying is that if the officer hadn't followed correct procedure by subduing the guy first and then asking his boss permission to execute when he found perma no longer existed, but instead beat the fuck out of him in a blind rage... that would've been absolutely fine?

What if the officer wasn't an officer but a medical doctor that sleep toxined the geneticist and then spaced the geneticist without asking anyone, he be fine right?

Or what if the officer hadn't bothered asking the hos and executed him autonomously?
That'd be fine too right?
I mean everyone except for sticky, including you, has agreed that the geneticist was being a dick enough to warrant spacing, the only issue you have is that the hos, who was flying around in space with his head up his arse, said no.
This is the exact reason why I'm arguing that getting permission for a legitimate execution should be nothing more than an ic issue, because sometimes your boss is dumb.

[Steelpoint]

Also once again, the HoS ceded away his authority to someone that not even he knew the name of (Red Lizard Guy). As such the HoS had no idea or context as to what was going on inside the station.

[Jeb]

what do you do when the brig is on fire and you cannot safely detain the criminal

[Jeb]

PM to-Admins: Just be clear, someone trying to monkey me several times and ignoring all warnings gives me a little leeway right?
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Stickymayhem: OOCly yes
Click on the administrator's name to reply.

PM to-Admins: Okay

Also lets not forget that Stickymayhem, our glorious headmin, did reply to his adminhelp saying "yes".

Should sticky not have wanted that to be misinterpreted, then he should have written out an actual answer to the adminhelp, not something that could be taken as "yeah do whatever".

The security officer is not at fault here.

[AdenAbrafo]

Why can't you guys just admit the security officer wasn't in the wrong? The very same people arguing for the banning of the security officer are the same people who are against drawing lines in the sand yet you are putting your foot down against this one security officer because 'lol rules are rules' even though the HoS fucked off into space that round, said all of one thing to the security officer about the situation and the round had gone to shit.

[Falamazeer]

Because the rule change means the job is literately undoable after a certain point in many rounds.
And it's a symptom of an even larger problem, Namely that a security officer is not equipped to fight off the criminals and the admins at the same time.

[oranges]

If you can't detain them just get them demoted and let them go.

[rdght91]

If you can't detain them just get them demoted and let them go.

1. The guy would have come back and tried to kill me anyway (I already let him go once), and probably would have brought his friends in medbay.

2. The station was full of plasma, fire and holes

3. I'm not even sure if the HOP was alive much less working the line.

[AdenAbrafo]

if the permabrig isn't open then why would anyone be changing ids for a security officer? demoting someone as security is even more likely to get you banned.

[TheNightingale]

Personally, I'd have bucklecuffed him in a patient room in a muzzle and straitjacket. Though if anything, the community response to this case should give some indication as to what the players consider acceptable punishments for misbehaving crooks.

[Falamazeer]

And yet nobody asks for context when they see officers doing such things in a round, You drag a guy through medbay and you'll have vigilante doctors out to save humanity and teh worldz interfering to punish the jackbooted tyrannical thug security officer.

Not to mention this case in particular involved vigilante doctors already.

[oranges]

If you can't detain them just get them demoted and let them go.

1. The guy would have come back and tried to kill me anyway (I already let him go once), and probably would have brought his friends in medbay.

At which point you're then perfectly within your rights to valid salad him and his friend

[Shaps-cloud]

And yet nobody asks for context when they see officers doing such things in a round, You drag a guy through medbay and you'll have vigilante doctors out to save humanity and teh worldz interfering to punish the jackbooted tyrannical thug security officer.

Not to mention this case in particular involved vigilante doctors already.

tbf if the officers have the patient/criminal already cuffed, there's no point in leaving them in crit/badly wounded

[lumipharon]

Security reserve the right to carry out executions, without authorization, in the case of potential significant risk or extraordinary circumstances.

Straight out of the rules.

Potential significant risk: The guy attempted more then once to monkey him, a fate worse then death, and was clearly going to continue to try do so.

Extraordinary circumstances: The brig was bombed to shit.


Why does going against what the chucklefuck HoS said earn a ban when the next rule exists to say that authorisation isnt needed under certain circumstances?

[Scones]

I've been trying to follow this thread so correct me if I'm wrong

Security Officer breaks into Genetics, Geneticist is not doing cloning. Officer wants to clone someone(?)
Genticist tries to monkey him (????)
Gets arrested, uncuffed, keeps being hostile
Brig is super fucked, Officer can't be bothered to deal with the guy, kills him

If I'm right I don't see the problem here, somebody please correct me. Sticky saying he had clearance but banning him just confuses me but again I've only skimmed the thread.

[rdght91]

I've been trying to follow this thread so correct me if I'm wrong

Security Officer breaks into Genetics, Geneticist is not doing cloning. Officer wants to clone someone(?)
Genticist tries to monkey him (????)
Gets arrested, uncuffed, keeps being hostile
Brig is super fucked, Officer can't be bothered to deal with the guy, kills him

If I'm right I don't see the problem here, somebody please correct me. Sticky saying he had clearance but banning him just confuses me but again I've only skimmed the thread.

I stabbed him with his DNA injector after he chased me out of genetics into the medbay hallway with it when I tazed him. It was an actual monkey SE, so he ventcrawled back to his buddy who fixed him and then they and most of medbay then rioted because they were screaming over the radio as another security officer came in to back me up. Both of us got knocked down several times during this brawl, I think it was 4 or 5 on us 2. Otherwise yeah, that's the gist.

[Vekter]

Shoo shoo gains goblin

This thread has spawned like 3 policy discussion threads and zero bans, locking and moving