Boris Pepper, Randy Savage, Goddard Quirin - Mutiny

[hanshansenhansson]

Your byond account: HandDampf
Your character name: Zeke Gray (captain)
Their character name: Boris Pepper (cmo), Randy Savage (ce), Goddard Quirin(hop)
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): ?
Server and time: Sybil, round that just ended before posting this
Logs and/or screenshots:

Description of what happened:
Boris Pepper wanted a vote for Captain at first, then fight me for the captaincy. I was busy and was not interested. After a while he declares himself Captain and tried to instigate a mutiny. When we tried to detain him, CE and HoP joined him and started a full blown mutiny. Not one of the 3 was antag, there was nothing done on my part that would warrant a mutiny.

Why they should be banned:
Not one of them was antag, and this was just shit.

[bandit]

I was security in this round. My involvement in this was arresting a naked Boris Pepper on a technicality ("indecent exposure" is technically against Space Law, etc) then either going afk or fucking off (I don't remember, it just involved not doing anything) and missing the rest of it, including the part where security turned against the captain.

From my vantage point this was indeed a case of mutiny for absolutely no reason. Also noteworthy is that Boris Pepper started out as an assistant and took over the CMO spot, and that they had started a fake Roman "gang" for no reason other than to griff. A few others including the clown were involved in said "gang."

[QuartzCrystal]

Probably gonna need a headmin here, Boris Pepper is played by Bluespace.

[ohnopigeons]

I was a security officer during this round. I don't have the complete picture about what happened, but I do think I have a pretty good one given my circumstances. In my opinion, the mutiny was easily preventable and only happened due to your poor decisions on handling the issue.

As for me, I was the Bridge Security Officer. I had quit the main security force because the HoS was bad, really bad, and ineffective. I went to the HoP to quit, but he offered me the chance to watch over the bridge instead. Which is where most of this happened.

Boris Pepper, being the usual shitter he is, challenged the Captain to a fight for the captaincy as the CMO. The CE was very supportive of the fight itself and tried to encourage it (even wanting to fight Boris himself) but was not really interested in who the winner was. The HoP had a few gripes with the HoS and I presume with the captain as well, but was mostly on the sidelines during this.

When you first came to the bridge, you didn't directly address Boris, the other heads, or the fight itself. Instead all you did was order security over sec radio to handle a "mutiny" in the brig (when you meant bridge). From the point of view of the heads in the bridge and spectators outside, you were being pretty mute. No additional officers came, due to confusion about orders, usual security lethargy, or a combination of both. This severely penalized your Legitimacy score, a real-life concept I learned from EU4.

Then you abruptly left and took me with you to go save the AI when a traitor roboticist broke into the AI sat with an emagged borg. Props to you for stopping the traitor and saving the AI, but that only let the challenge for the Captaincy to fester while you were busy doing that.

Finally, you got some officers on the bridge in order to put an end to the challenge to the captaincy. Which was all fine and good, except you arrested the HoP and the CE as well. This was the real fuckup. I'm not clear on the details about the CE except it was probably a misunderstanding on your part, given my impression of the CE. (I think I remember the CE accidentally batoning the wrong person?) But what I do remember clearly is the situation with the HoP. The HoS called for his arrest over sec radio and you went along with it for no apparent reason. Your personal golem officer then harmbatoned the HoP when he was initially compliant with being arrested, and only after that did he start resisting.

I warned you over the sec radio about brigging/executioning more than half of your heads of staff at once but you shrugged off my warning. I don't know how the takeover itself happened but I do remember coming back to the bridge to see half of the security force saluting Boris Pepper as the new Captain, and attempting to tase and arrest both you and the HoS while everyone was heading towards the emergency shuttle. Whether the officers fell in with Boris due to dissatisfaction with you and the extremely bad HoS or due to general sec blood-thirstiness, I'll never know. For me it was the former.

In the end, the mutiny does seem a bit unfair and cruel, but you share part of the blame.

tl;dr git gud at leadership and realpolitik

[hanshansenhansson]

When you first came to the bridge, you didn't directly address Boris, the other heads, or the fight itself. Instead all you did was order security over sec radio to handle a "mutiny" in the brig (when you meant bridge). From the point of view of the heads in the bridge and spectators outside, you were being pretty mute. No additional officers came, due to confusion about orders, usual security lethargy, or a combination of both. This severely penalized your Legitimacy score, a real-life concept I learned from EU4.

I did not expect a loyality implant security officer to inform the people on bridge about that. That is what you did. I had to leave the bridge, as there was an intruder on the AI sat at that point. You willingly let the mutiny happen, you informed on me trying to move against it, then moved against me in the end. I still do not get the part where it was right for you to decide to join into the mutiny, though. You refused to arrest the HoP before we left for the AI, despite direct orders.

Finally, you got some officers on the bridge in order to put an end to the challenge to the captaincy. Which was all fine and good, except you arrested the HoP and the CE as well. This was the real fuckup. I'm not clear on the details about the CE except it was probably a misunderstanding on your part, given my impression of the CE. (I think I remember the CE accidentally batoning the wrong person?) But what I do remember clearly is the situation with the HoP. The HoS called for his arrest over sec radio and you went along with it for no apparent reason. Your personal golem officer then harmbatoned the HoP when he was initially compliant with being arrested, and only after that did he start resisting.

HoP did multiple announcements over comms, stiring up the mutiny. At that point I asked for his arrest. If you would have done your job, it would have been over at that point. He enabled Boris Pepper absolutly. CE interfered with the arrest of the Boris Pepper earlier.

I warned you over the sec radio about brigging/executioning more than half of your heads of staff at once but you shrugged off my warning. I don't know how the takeover itself happened but I do remember coming back to the bridge to see half of the security force saluting Boris Pepper as the new Captain, and attempting to tase and arrest both you and the HoS while everyone was heading towards the emergency shuttle. Whether the officers fell in with Boris due to dissatisfaction with you and the extremely bad HoS or due to general sec blood-thirstiness, I'll never know. For me it was the former.

The only Head I brigged was the RD, he supplied an assistant with a bomb combined with PDA messages that made it clear the bomb was intended to griff. I did absolutely nothing that warranted the mutiny and behavior of the CMO and HoP. That shit with the Golem harmbatoning happend way down the line (and was an accident, I think he had no charge), after HoP spent every possible minute spamming Mutiny-Announcements.

I had no interaction with the CMO or HoP prior to that incident. Except telling HoP to do his job and go to his office, once.




The whole thing was just LOLOLOL CAPTAIN REFUSES TO NAKED WRESTLE BORIS HE NO CAPTAIN ANYMORE. And as memey as TG is, it went from there. And you took part in it. I would not be salty if one of the instigators would have been a traitor, but not one of them was.

[SHTC]

I was the CE. I wasn't advocating any mutiny. It was after the Captain told Boris to fuck off for a third time that he accepted that we could wrassle. After we had stripped (As it was naked Fist fighting), a Sec officer arrested him for Public Nudity and I just put my clothes back on and sat on bridge. Then the HoP comes into the room and says something about how he thinks the Captain is corrupt. The Golem with Sec Gear came towards us and started to attack the HoP. I knocked it down and prevented it from hurting the HoP, then the Captain comes and started harm lasering the HoP so I not wanting the HoP to die, telescopic batoned the Captain and dragged the HoP away and freed him. The HoP started to kill the Golem and I just left. I never assaulted anyone in harm intent nor did I try to start a mutiny. I Just wanted to engage in the fun happening on the bridge after dealing with the singulo escaping from traitor actions and finding power for the station.

[ohnopigeons]

I did not expect a loyality implant security officer to inform the people on bridge about that. That is what you did. I had to leave the bridge, as there was an intruder on the AI sat at that point. You willingly let the mutiny happen, you informed on me trying to move against it, then moved against me in the end. I still do not get the part where it was right for you to decide to join into the mutiny, though. You refused to arrest the HoP before we left for the AI, despite direct orders.

This is because I had quit the main security force, due to the extremely shitty HoS. If we're going to talk about enabling, you enabled the HoS's shittiness which I wanted to have no part in. Therefore I considered myself under the direct jurisdiction of the HoP, as it was his idea and his custom job placement. I don't remember you ever directly ordering me by name, only security.

HoP did multiple announcements over comms, stiring up the mutiny. At that point I asked for his arrest. If you would have done your job, it would have been over at that point. He enabled Boris Pepper absolutly. CE interfered with the arrest of the Boris Pepper earlier.

I don't clearly remember the HoP's announcements. What kind of announcements were they? My impression were that they were encouraging the challenge itself, not the mutiny. I consider the challenge and the mutiny to be two separate issues.

The only Head I brigged was the RD, he supplied an assistant with a bomb combined with PDA messages that made it clear the bomb was intended to griff. I did absolutely nothing that warranted the mutiny and behavior of the CMO and HoP. That shit with the Golem harmbatoning happend way down the line (and was an accident, I think he had no charge), after HoP spent every possible minute spamming Mutiny-Announcements.

Even worse, that means you literally arrested (or at least tried to arrest) ALL of the remaining heads except for the shit HoS, seeing as you never replaced the RD.

The whole thing was just LOLOLOL CAPTAIN REFUSES TO NAKED WRESTLE BORIS HE NO CAPTAIN ANYMORE. And you took part in it. I would not be salty if one of the instigators would have been a traitor, but not one of them was.

Like I said before, it wasn't your refusal, it was your handling of the situation and how you refused.

[hanshansenhansson]

Even worse, that means you literally arrested (or at least tried to arrest) ALL of the remaining heads except for the shit HoS, seeing as you never replaced the RD.

HoP or CE were not arrested. At least not that I know of. HoP was a mutineer, CE joined in the fight. CMO was just an assistant.

I don't clearly remember the HoP's announcements. What kind of announcements were they? My impression were that they were encouraging the challenge itself, not the mutiny. I consider the challenge and the mutiny to be two separate issues.

Don't have the logs, but they were clearly instigating the mutiny and declaring Boris the Captain.

Like I said before, it wasn't your refusal, it was your handling of the situation and how you refused.

I am sorry that I did not find the time to naked wrestle an assistant for the position of Captain while I was saving the AI from roboticist, myself from being injected and other shenanigans that came up.


@ the CE, might have gotten the wrong picture about his involvement in the mutiny, as he was quite involved in that wrestling shit as usual.

[ohnopigeons]

HoP or CE were not arrested. At least not that I know of. HoP was a mutineer, CE joined in the fight. CMO was just an assistant.

I specifically remember you ordering the HoP's arrest, after the recommendation of the HoS.

I am sorry that I did not find the time to naked wrestle an assistant for the position of Captain while I was saving the AI from roboticist, myself from being injected and other shenanigans that came up.

The problem isn't the fucking wrestling, the problem was

Then the HoP comes into the room and says something about how he thinks the Captain is corrupt. The Golem with Sec Gear came towards us and started to attack the HoP. I knocked it down and prevented it from hurting the HoP, then the Captain comes and started harm lasering the HoP so I not wanting the HoP to die, telescopic batoned the Captain and dragged the HoP away and freed him.

[hanshansenhansson]

HoS wanted HoP arrested because of those announcements. That whole fight was after the mutiny was well in progress. That was a good time after I left for the AI, and took you along. Remember? I honestly have no idea where that "corrupt" talk comes from.

[ohnopigeons]

HoS wanted HoP arrested because of those announcements. That whole fight was after the mutiny was well in progress. That was a good time after I left for the AI, and took you along. Remember? I honestly have no idea where that "corrupt" talk comes from.

I consider the fight to be the start of the mutiny, because that's when people actually wanted and started to remove you by force. Everything beforehand was just a friendly leadership challenge. I don't remember the contents of the announcements but I don't think they were hostile.

[hanshansenhansson]

They openly called for me to be removed. That is not a friendly challenge. I honestly do not remember the exact words either so we are going a bit in circles here by ourselves, maybe an admin can chime in.

[Stickymayhem]

Things like mutiny are an IC issue unless it becomes clear that it's a pattern of behaviour of the player stirring up shit. People have some leeway to behave in a way that may result in pissing people off as long as it isn't happening regularly. This mutiny was supported by half your heads of staff it seems, which regardless of reason does make it pretty legitimate and a lot better than just one dude trying to become Captain out of nowhere.

Maybe they were just playing along because a mutiny is fun. It doesn't matter as long as it doesn't become disruptive and repetitive behaviour. Mutinys are rare and are almost always going to be an IC issue. Sometimes your round just gets ruined through no fault of your own and you have to deal with it. This is one of those times. We have rule 3 for a reason.

You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it.

Sorry your round was messed up, but there will be plenty more good and bad where that came from.

[hanshansenhansson]

Not half the heads. CE was just confused by the situation according to his statement. RD was demoted due to bomb shenanigans and not involved in this situation at all. It was 1 1/2 Heads.
Only the Assistant-made-CMO by the HoP, and the HoP himself were. There was no reason except that I refused to naked-wrestle the Assistant-CMO for my position. This was just shit antagonistic behaviour by a non-antag. Was there not something about internationally stirring up a mob to greytide? Does this mean I can start challenging the HoS for his job by naked-wrestling, and if he refuses declare myself HoS, equip myself and some followers in the armory and start a competing security service? As long as people only complain about it once or twice, of course.

Funny how everything is declared as an IC-issue when it's admins fucking over other players "as long as it isn't happening regularly". Reminds me of that admin stealing the CE suit for shits and giggles. How can you know it is not happening regularly if they do not even get a note about it?

I get it, he most likely talked in IRC/TS with you, giving you his side of the story out of public eye how it was all "good fun" and "no harm". I did not experience it as that, being forced to deal with that shit between saving AI-core and being injected with fire-chemicals.

[Stickymayhem]

If you want anyone to respect any kind of argument you make you'll stop making baseless accusations around conspiracies. Stick to the situation.

The greytide rule was only put in place because it happened so often. If mutinys started happening every other round too then we'd probably have to put a rule in because shitters are abusing it.

It was one round.

And yeah it does mean that you can do this occasionally. Unless your intent is to be a piece of shit just to prove a point. If you're an assistant and the HoS refuses to wrestle you, and you and some buddies start a competing security service and you manage all of that without murdering people then I'd call it a good gimmick.

[Bluespace]

here we go!
Bam, round starts. I am assistant. Run around a bit. Graffiti. Get arrested.
Get released. Go to HoP. Ask for all access, get denied, chat with HoP about plot to take over the station. He declines.
Run around.
Find CMO braindead in hallway.
Run around dragging CMO.
CMO never comes back.
Take ID, become new CMO. Run medical fairly well for 15 minutes.
Wonder why captain is dragging bleeding, critical bodies around.
AI has a shitfit over the captain executing people.
Go to bridge, challenge captain to fist fight for executing both my chemists.
Captain literally does not respond. Says nothing.
Finally decide to fight CE for control of engineering.
Arrested for public nudity after undressing.
Captain comes into brig.
Orders me permabrigged.
Loyalists officers who are sick of the HoS and Captain support me and break me from perma.
Head to the bridge.
HoP under attack. Drag him away to save him. Kill Beepsky.
Head back into the bridge. HoP promotes me to captain. I am saluted by the defected security who are now under my command.
We leave the bridge to head to the shuttle and we're attacked by laser wielding captain/HoS combo.
My officers engage and I flee. HoP is killed in crossfire.
I get to shuttle. 2 of my officers make it too. Old captain and HoS never make it to shuttle.
I help fight off slimes that attacked the shuttle, saving crewmembers.
Crew applauds.

Your security force defected because they were sick of perma/executing people on "I said so" orders from you. I was simply IC pissed you executed my chemists. I would've happily roleplayed anything you wanted, but you just ignored me and then killed the HoP.

[hanshansenhansson]

Interesting narrative, with quite a lot of hyperbole mixed in. I love how you state from the beginning that you intent on taking over, before anything else happened. Everything after that is just you looking for excuses and interpreting them in the worst way to justify this shit. Your intent to take over did not evolve from my mysterious mistreatment, it was there from the beginning.

I dragged one critical bleeding body out of medbay. That was the chemist who just injected me with fire-starting-toxin-stuff, that I barely survived by putting on a firesuit. AI did not have "a shitfit". AI did the usual "I am asimov and killing is not ok" and was calmed down by being told that the "crew transfer center" is just for a "crew transfer". The handful of people in perma were traitors that went braindead before they were offered a borging. There was never a "I said so" situation.

Two people in total were executed that round, one even chose death when offered the borging. The other one was the chemist who tried murdering me. Even the RD who gave bombs to an assistant for shits-and-giggles was just put into the Gulag with his assistant, where he even worked off his lengthy sentence and later returned. You did not want to fight me over chemists, you wanted to fight me for the captaincy, and I had neither interest in that shitty "nekkid wrestle"-meme, nor time dealing with that shit as the AI was under attack at that point.

As far as I could tell, there was that one officer who joined Team HoP earlier for reasons unrelated to me, I had no real interaction with any other of them as I try to not be just HoS² as Captain. The others stayed out of it or were braindead.


But yes, I see this is going nowhere as expected and I take away from this that it is ok to antag as non-antag if you just avoid directly killing people and meme hard enough.

[TheWulfe]

Anon3 Amendment:

Haven't some of the more 'power-players' been banned for instigating mutinys? Also, this is basically greytide, he admits to plotting to take over the station and fighting people with no justification as a non-antag.

[Stickymayhem]

Repeatedly wrecking havoc on other players' experience without otherwise contributing anything of actual value to the game will not be tolerated. Doing this as an assistant ("greytiding") will result in an assistant-jobban.

As I've said, everyone gets the opportunity to be a pain to other people occasionally and in moderation. A core part of the game is a tolerable level of grief or we'd be removing the roles and items that exist solely for that purpose.

Also if you're being a shit in any way and get dunked for it you may very well get memed on or noted by admins if you adminhelp or excessively whine about it. You do either need to git gud, accept defeat or not act like a shit.

[Laharl Monthy]

Okay, so I'll give my opinion on this one, even if Sticky is handling it.

The CE should no longer be considered in this appeal, he ended up being caught up in the current events.

Then comes Boris Pepper and the HoP.
HoP did enable Boris and encouraged him a bit, however, he only realy got involved once the golem started applying beatings. I think he was going for harmless fun until stuff happened, so I'd still call it IC for him.
For Boris...The problem lies in the fact that Bluespace pretty much openly stated that he had the intention to take over captaincy. As far as I remember, this is also not the first time this happened as well. Yes, the situation escalated IC for the HoP and the CE, but not for Boris, who seemed to take over captaincy from the start. Okay, yes, the captain may have not reacted properly, but all this chain of actions comes from the intent that Boris add. There lies the core issue.

So there's two ways to handle this :
-Hugsbox Style : we apply the greytide rule.
-Non Hugsbox Style : Pretty much what Sticky says, tolerable level of grief, which can then evolve into a IC situation.

But, I would still advise giving Bluespace a note. This isn't the first time he does this, I believe.

Edit : What the hell is this word filter? Goddamn it.

[Bluespace]

>roleplay mutiny because captain is shit
>le ban request
remember when the clown could kill people in hilarious ways and get praised for it.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

>roleplay mutiny because captain is shit
>le ban request
remember when the clown could kill people in hilarious ways and get praised for it.

He was so shit, that you sent the idea to take over into the past to force your past self into instigating the mutiny to which he reacted in a shit manner!

[Bluespace]

nah that was just banter with the hop.
i think my entire words were "i'm going to kill the captain!"
bit ironic really.

[bandit]

remember when the clown could kill people in hilarious ways and get praised for it.

This isn't NoX.

[Malkevin]

remember when the clown could kill people in hilarious ways and get praised for it.

No, because that never happened here.

[Syrias]

Wow. It looks like there's an admin who behaves like a total shitter while playing greytide.

Also, you shouldn't be executing people willy-nilly as captain. That tends to cause mutinies. It's simple logic-- if the crew believes that you won't respect their lives (that you're going to kill them if they commit a crime you don't like), and that they are going to die with you at the lead, chances are good that there will be a mutiny. I really believe that both versions of this story are correct. Captain was shit and Boris Pepper (bluespace) was being as big a shitler as he could be, and is protected from getting in trouble due to his admin status.

Since the truth is too murky and this situation is too filled with bullshit and wrongdoing on each side, a warning is probably the only thing in order. Make a note in their files that Hans is not very good at captaining, and give bluespace a warning about not shitting all over everything. Although, obviously, that second one will never happen.

[Bluespace]

Wow. It looks like there's an admin who behaves like a total shitter while playing greytide.

Also, you shouldn't be executing people willy-nilly as captain. That tends to cause mutinies. It's simple logic-- if the crew believes that you won't respect their lives (that you're going to kill them if they commit a crime you don't like), and that they are going to die with you at the lead, chances are good that there will be a mutiny. I really believe that both versions of this story are correct. Captain was shit and Boris Pepper (bluespace) was being as big a shitler as he could be, and is protected from getting in trouble due to his admin status.

Since the truth is too murky and this situation is too filled with bullshit and wrongdoing on each side, a warning is probably the only thing in order. Make a note in their files that Hans is not very good at captaining, and give bluespace a warning about not shitting all over everything. Although, obviously, that second one will never happen.

Boris Pepper (bluespace) was being as big a shitler as he could be

story of my life

protected from getting in trouble due to his admin status.

wrong, and you're dumb for thinking this.

[DrunkenMatey]

Wow. It looks like there's an admin who behaves like a total shitter while playing greytide.

Also, you shouldn't be executing people willy-nilly as captain. That tends to cause mutinies. It's simple logic-- if the crew believes that you won't respect their lives (that you're going to kill them if they commit a crime you don't like), and that they are going to die with you at the lead, chances are good that there will be a mutiny. I really believe that both versions of this story are correct. Captain was shit and Boris Pepper (bluespace) was being as big a shitler as he could be, and is protected from getting in trouble due to his admin status.

Since the truth is too murky and this situation is too filled with bullshit and wrongdoing on each side, a warning is probably the only thing in order. Make a note in their files that Hans is not very good at captaining, and give bluespace a warning about not shitting all over everything. Although, obviously, that second one will never happen.

Boris Pepper (bluespace) was being as big a shitler as he could be

story of my life

protected from getting in trouble due to his admin status.

wrong, and you're dumb for thinking this.

I remember the round after the round mentioned here... you played captain and after I wired all the solars and was disabling the PA (before anyone got around to turning it on) to protect us all from singuloth, you ran in and wordlessly disabled me while i tried talking to you and then lazered me into crit after i was already down (and still trying to talk to you). Left a pretty bad impression despite the apologies after "I'm sorry I nearly killed you while completely ignoring you after you just did all this great stuff for the station... honest!"
did you get a note or anything for that? was pretty shitty behaviour for a captain.

[Bluespace]

>kill an engineer wordlessly disabling the PA after reports of rogue engineers
>le hugbox gibe him note
Maybe try not sabotaging a vital part of the station without letting the crew know solars are completely up.

[DrunkenMatey]

>kill an engineer wordlessly disabling the PA after reports of rogue engineers
>le kickin' rad place to be gibe him note
Maybe try not sabotaging a vital part of the station without letting the crew know solars are completely up.

to be fair, i started the round as the ONLY engineer and was unaware that ever changed until i got back to engineering and saw a guy turning emitters on. The plan was finish wiring all solars, safely pull the PA apart and let the crew know that they won't be eaten by a singulo this shift. Even if you were being paranoid, you coulda just disabled first talked second; considering that I tried talking to you repeatedly before you put me into crit. And why is an engineer wordlessly disabling the PA a suspicious thing when the engine isn't even on? Was I supposed to be narrating to myself while doing it? or telling all the crew what I'm doing? Since when do they care what engineering does so long as they have power and don't get eaten by singulo?

[TechnoAlchemist]

There's no reason for not just asking them what they were doing there was nothing threatening about what they' we're doing. If you wanted to do securities job as a captain you should be held to their standards which shouldn't be hard considering your gun has a fully functional disable function and you were surrounded by cables with which you could make cuffs.

Engineers should be able to modify their environment and decide the paths they choose without being killed in their own department because they're doing something suspicious. Disabling the PA is a really benign thing in terms of "sabotage" and shouldn't warrant an attack without interaction.

[NikNakFlak]

This is pretty damn old now, if techno still stands by what was said above/has nothing else to add, I'll resolve this in 24 hours.