Lanate Mons - invading, griefing

[mosquitoman]

Your byond account: mosquitoman
Your character name: Tommy Wiseau
Their character name: Lanate Mons
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): --
Server and time: Sybil, 2015-06-07 07:30
Logs and/or screenshots: Screenshot below, I have full logs available if needed

Description of what happened:
I was playing a bartender. Shortly after the round started, I left for a moment, then when I came back I saw that character deconstructing everything in my bar. I tried chasing them off with my shotgun, but the griefer was dragging a locker to deflect the bullets. Then they chaintabled me and stole my ID, with the help of another greytider who joined the fight to kick me while I was on the ground. After a while I managed to put two slugs into them, incapacitating them, and left to rebuild what was destroyed. Promptly after that, a security borg came, harmbatoned me, and arrested me. The offender quickly took opportunity and destroyed everything else left in the bar, including ripping the floor tiles out, but leaving the counter and stuff behind it alone. At this point I ahelped this, and I was told it's an IC issue. It was alluded to that if I offer some drinks and pray, I might get some materials to rebuild everything, so I did that, and started rebuilding. Shortly after, the same griefer came to the bar again, ripped the floor tiles I have just laid, covered everything in grass, and built a giant empty glass cage taking most of the room in the bar. After I started replacing some grass tiles, I was chaintabled multiple times, attacked, then we were both arrested by the same security cyborg. My stolen ID was used to gain access to the bartender's backroom to steal some building materials from there, as well as accessing the bar windoor to beat me further. After I was freed, I started deconstructing the glass structure, and replacing some of the grass tiles that were directly under the bar counter. I was then attacked again, chaintabled, my ID was stolen the second time (I had it replaced at HoP's office), and I was arrested for throwing a few punches in self defense. At this point I had enough of this shit and ghosted.

http://i.imgur.com/he1zD2p.png <--- this shows the structure that was built


Why they should be banned:
Clear cut case of invading, wrecking everything in my workplace, trying to take over the bar without as much as asking me for permission once, assaulting and generally trying to ruin my round in the worst ways possible for about an hour. Can't blame the cyborg for arresting me if that's what he decided to interpret his laws as. I have no way to non-lethally kick somebody out of my workplace, so I had to resort to some violence, but in most cases I was attacked or chaintabled whenever I tried to take control of the bar. Note that this all could have been avoided if I was asked (even once) to grant some space for a building project, or they kept it restricted to the theatre (which was 100% unused the whole time). Ausops was the admin at the time and I think he handled this quite well, considering the information available to him. I stopped ahelping about after the second time I was arrested.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3468

This thread contains a discussion about workplace invaders, and my opinion is that, in its light, how I reacted was very much valid, considering the consistent griefing behaviour of the offender. Greybacked shitlers should not be allowed to do as they please anywhere on the station. This can only lead to increasingly abusive behaviour.

[Sabbat]

Without reading your wall of text.

I disassembled the tables in the bar and you answered that by walking up and double tapping me with your shotgun point blank while I was outside the bar, then you tried to space me.

Then after I had made the petting zoo you repeatedly tried to disassemble it or smash the window, to which I answered by disarming or tabling and fixing it. You then attacked by throwing floor tiles at me, so I attacked back, we were both brigged over it.

Then again you attempted to smash/disassemble the petting zoo while people were in it having fun so I tabled you some more.

You could have not been a dick about everything and not tried to space me after I'd left the bar in the first place and I wouldn't have had to table you.

Everybody enjoyed the petting zoo though it was p cool there were lots of corgis and pugs and a fox and runtime and we had a bear at one point but he ate Poly so he had to be put down. We got a new parrot though so it was okay, and even a blobbernaut. Shit was fun everybody enjoyed it.

[mosquitoman]

I asked you to leave, then I told you to get out, then after you started yakkety saxing I reached for the shotgun. Not once during the whole round was I within a screen's length of an external airlock, so any allegations of me trying to space you are an obvious lie. Somehow this does not surprise me, you have a history of shitty behaviour just barely below the banning threshold and lying so much you start believing yourself when people confront you. You could've done that elsewhere, or asked me, or even picked bartender job yourself if you wanted to build there. Putting a slug or two in a greytider who starts disassembling everything for keks is normal and fully expected.

[Sabbat]

You double tapped me while I was standing still in the hall outside the bar talking to the security guard who showed up and dragged me in a straight line toward the escape airlocks, but shotgun stuns don't last that long, so I stood up around robotics and slowly walked back toward medbay because of stamina damage.

You would not have used the dining area. I left a two tile walking space by the bar so it wasn't crowded, anybody who knows the actual bar layout can tell you extended it out to make it look that cramped. I didn't hop the bar and start stealing your booze or break into your back room for your shotgun. I disassembled some tables you wouldn't have used on the opposite side from the bar to build a petting zoo that a lot of people came to visit and enjoy and pet the cute 2D space animals.

It's not "graytiding" to build something in the dining room by the theater, I don't think you know what that term means.

I have a screenshot too! http://i.imgur.com/wwl7DaD.jpg

Look how adorable it is, so many people came to pet the cuties it was awesome.

Regardless, I didn't kill you, or steal anything, or even hop your bar. You ghosted after you got arrested, you said so yourself. The dining area is a public area, which is why security and the heads of staff didn't care. An area that would otherwise have been ignored got used for something fun.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

-anon amendment, I'm being helpful-

So, sans the angriness from both sides, this is the timeline:

1) assistant runs into the bar, wordlessly disassembles things
2)Bartender tells him to cut it out
3) He doesn;t
4) bartender shoots him with beanbags and drags him away, possibly while he was talking to a sec officer
5) Assistant repeatedly tables him
6) Borg arrests the bartender and harms him
7) assistant tears up all the floors, begins making pet cage
8) bartender gets given materials via an admin to replace those stolen and destroyed
9) assistant tables him again, steals his ID and materials
10)assistant builds a cage to hold animals, secborg arrests bartender again
11)Bartender is freed, comes back and starts deconstructing the cage built in his workplace
12)Bartender attacks assistant when assistant steals his ID
13) Bartender is arrested and ghosts

Please post if you feel I have misrepresented what happened. I am simply trying to present what happened in a neutral manner without bias, as both sides appear to be appealing to emotion instead of what happened here, with wildly differing stories.

[Vekter]

You don't get carte blanche to fuck up the bar just because it's a public place. The bartender is fully within his rights to slap your shit (barring killing you) if you come into the bar and start tearing up the place

If you wanted to make a petting zoo, why not ask the bartender before fucking up his work place?

I'm more interested to hear from the sec borg in all this.

E: Also, I need clarification: were you shot with slug rounds or beanbag rounds?

[mosquitoman]

Q.A.I was the cyborg's name.

I used the green shells that the bartender has as his starting equipment. Pretty sure they're nonlethal.

[Vekter]

Q.A.I was the cyborg's name.

I used the green shells that the bartender has as his starting equipment. Pretty sure they're nonlethal.

Those would be beanbag shells, and yes, they do very little damage.

Complaining about the bartender "double-tapping" you with beanbag shells is like griping about being stunned by sec.

This seems like a clear cut case of greytiding, but I'm going to let another admin look over it for me tonight.

[Sabbat]

-anon amendment, I'm being helpful-

So, sans the angriness from both sides, this is the timeline:

1) assistant runs into the bar, wordlessly disassembles things
2)Bartender tells him to cut it out
3) He doesn;t
4) bartender shoots him with beanbags and drags him away, possibly while he was talking to a sec officer
5) Assistant repeatedly tables him
6) Borg arrests the bartender and harms him
7) assistant tears up all the floors, begins making pet cage
8) bartender gets given materials via an admin to replace those stolen and destroyed
9) assistant tables him again, steals his ID and materials
10)assistant builds a cage to hold animals, secborg arrests bartender again
11)Bartender is freed, comes back and starts deconstructing the cage built in his workplace
12)Bartender attacks assistant when assistant steals his ID
13) Bartender is arrested and ghosts

Please post if you feel I have misrepresented what happened. I am simply trying to present what happened in a neutral manner without bias, as both sides appear to be appealing to emotion instead of what happened here, with wildly differing stories.

You forgot all the parts where the bartender attacked first and I only diasrmed/tabled so he would stop attacking. You can ask everybody who was at the petting zoo about it.

Edit 2: After point 9 nothing was right.
I didn't randomly table and take his ID. It was during one of the fights where he kept attacking/throwing shit/etc and then running behind the bar where I couldn't disarm him, eventually I tabled him and took his ID so he would stop, we were both immediately arrested for fighting.
He was not randomly arrested after I built the zoo, he tried starting a fight again, in fact I think right after I built it I left to go get animals to put in it so if he was arrested right after I built it I don't know, but when I got back the windows were pushed around so I put them back, he came up and started throwing floor tiles at me. That was the one fight where I actually punched him. We were both arrested.
I had his ID before the fist fight but he had a new one already so point 12 is just not right.
Point 13) He got arrested for starting more shit while everybody was trying to make him stop and then screaming about it. Security obviously saw fit to arrest the one actually starting trouble and not the one who had just built a simple petting zoo and was just petting corgis and telling people to come pet the cute 2D animal sprites.

You don't get carte blanche to fuck up the bar just because it's a public place. The bartender is fully within his rights to slap your shit (barring killing you) if you come into the bar and start tearing up the place

If you wanted to make a petting zoo, why not ask the bartender before fucking up his work place?

I'm more interested to hear from the sec borg in all this.

E: Also, I need clarification: were you shot with slug rounds or beanbag rounds?

Except it's an in character issue which was resolved in character by the HoP, captain, and security. The HoP is in my screenshot, the HoP has command over the bar, and he supported it. He even brought us animals. He might have a "right" to attack me, but his first attempt was an attempted spacing where he was chased by three people and I wasn't stunned long enough to actually be spaced, all after the security guard first showed up and we hadn't even spoken to him. He literally waited for the guard to show up, I walked out of the bar, stood in front of the window, started trying to talk to the guard, he walks out and uses the rest of his beanbag shells on me while I just stood there and dragged me immediately toward escape. This is why security didn't want to "help" him, because when they showed up he attempted spacing. After that, he would wordlessly attempt to disassemble/smash/throw shit at me/punch me, and when he would get tabled he would scream for security.

After we were both brigged for fighting, he screamed non stop about how I "made it up to get him brigged" and "graytiding" and whatnot.

And I'm not saying Ausops was wrong to give the bartender building material, or whatever, but I will say it's a little weird considering it was just metal and floor tiles and he could have gotten that IC easily.

By the way, even after being given material his "rebuilding" was only to replace the floor tiles and then go back behind the bar. He didn't actually care about "Rebuilding" the tables, he only wanted an excuse to fight somebody, and that's fine that's what most people want, I was just building something fun for everybody to use, which did get used a lot.

Regardless. HoP brought us animals and never told me to disassemble anything, even with the bartender screaming about it right next to him, security resolved our fights IC, I don't remember if we had a captain but if we did he never said anything about it.

Quick edit:
I didn't see the cyborg harm baton anybody, we were both arrested by him a few times, him for punching and throwing shit and me for tabling, but I don't think he ever once harmed anybody. He was generally an okay securityborg and I say okay because I usually hate secborgs.

[Vekter]

You haven't answered my question. What did you expect the Bartender to do when you just walked in and started tearing the bar apart?

[Sabbat]

You haven't answered my question. What did you expect the Bartender to do when you just walked in and started tearing the bar apart?

I'm not the one complaining, though.

But most bartenders are brotenders and welcome people modifying the dining area, it attracts more people to the bar which means more people to serve drinks to. Most bartenders would not respond by emptying every beanbag shell they have and attempt to space somebody even after security shows up to ask what's going on.

With the HoP having supported it and even supplied pets there should literally not be an issue. All fights were resolved by security IC. I didn't start the fights, I didn't steal anything, I didn't touch the secure bar area or anything in it. Nobody did, in fact. Everybody who was in the petting zoo area left the bartender and his things alone, the bartender is the one who would come in and antagonize people.

[mosquitoman]

Sabbat, are you aware that your skull will be one day on display in British Museum, right next to that of Koko the Sign Language Gorilla? There will be a sign inviting visitors to guess which one was legally recognized as an actual person despite the difference in their IQs being less than one standard deviation. The future scientists will argue for years unable to determine which skull belonged to a "human". I can't believe you can look in the mirror without bursting out laughing uncontrollably at your own bullsh*t.

How can you so stubbornly insist I tried to "space" you, while I have not set foot nowhere near any external airlock during the entire round? Are you pretending to be clueless about the game to sway those unaware to your side? Luckily I have full logs at my pc at home and I will post those parts where you say you will attack me if I try restoring my little corner to its original condition, as well as those where you keep chaintabling me for a few minutes, or those where you steal my ID no less than twice for the crime of resisting your greytiding. I have not once attacked you unprovoked and everything I did was just a reaction to your aggressive, griefing behaviour. In fact you were only able to stun me because I was not interested in fighting you, I have only retaliated when I saw there's no chance of you ever stopping because you're a generic, stock shitler.

Not-Dorsidarf's account is nearly 100% accurate. I got my ID replaced once and stolen twice. It was used by the griefer to reach me behind the bar where I took shelter from their relentless attacks which continued every time I tried reclaiming the bar, with cooperation of at least one other greyback. When I was arrested, they used it to take the metal and glass that are normally stored there for themselves.

PS. This is the same guy that started throwing flashbangs and fluorosulfuric acid grenades randomly at me for t3h keks the last time I played as bartender too. I filed a ban request that time as well, which I believe made him take his meta "revenge" on me. He got away with it because ultimately it wasn't destructive enough to cause an actual ban. Like I said he has a history of balancing just below the banning threshold.

[Sabbat]

Luckily I have full logs at my pc at home and I will post those parts where you say you will attack me if I try restoring my little corner to its original condition

You mean after like the third fight where I said something along the lines of "If you don't stop I swear to god"?

You had a lot of time while I was in botany growing grass to "restore your little corner to its original condition", and what you chose to do instead is place the floor tiles that I left sitting on the bar and then go back behind the bar. You were not trying to "restore it", you were just looking to pick a fight, when I wouldn't actually attack you and didn't get arrested the last time you got angry and ghosted.

Please though, post your logs, upload the entire file don't just copy-paste small parts. I want to see my "relentless attacks" that you "took shelter from". I also want to see how you did "not once attack me unprovoked" in your logs, or how I was being aggressive at all.

If you upload your logs it'll show all the times you unscrewed the windows/attempted to unscrew them, it works better for me that way, because even if I had logs I wouldn't have that part since I don't get to see those messages, it'll show I would only disarm you while you were attempting to fuck with the windows or attacking me and I never just randomly disarmed or tried to table.

PS. This is the same guy that started throwing flashbangs and fluorosulfuric acid grenades randomly at me for t3h keks the last time I played as bartender too. I filed a ban request that time as well, which I believe made him take his meta "revenge" on me. He got away with it because ultimately it wasn't destructive enough to cause an actual ban. Like I said he has a history of balancing just below the banning threshold.

You're that guy? It wasn't even a flashbang I tossed back then, which I explained. You got flashbanged by somebody in the hall, oh god it all makes sense now, you were threatening to shoot me back then too even though I was the mime and the bar connects to the theater, which is the mime area, and is where I tossed the ethanol grenade onto the corpse of PunPun that you called a flashbang. Again, in the theater, which is the mime's/clown's area.

You seem to have this problem where you sit in the bar and hope somebody comes up and looks at you funny so you can space them or something.

Also I'm trying to remember the people who chased you into the escape arm while you dragged me, I believe it was the janitor, security borg (or officer) and an assistant but I'm not entirely sure. It was pretty early in the round, I remember the janitor dragging me around while I was stamina damaged because I couldn't stop being dragged since I was so slow, but besides him I don't remember the others. Locations won't be logged, but there were witnesses.

EDIT BECAUSE I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THIS.

I filed a ban request that time as well, which I believe made him take his meta "revenge" on me.

You used two different character names and appearances, one was black one was white. I had literally no way of knowing you were the same person. You apparently knew it was me though, to be fair I have been using the same character and appearance though because I'm not hiding from people.

[Mongke]

I was Rare Pepe the warden of the round, After the two were arrested by the Borg and Jailed I went down to the bar to try and sort out what was happening (since I was the only active security member at the time). The HoP was in the bar so I told him to sort out the mess since he was the boss of both the botanist and the Bartender, He replied by saying if the bartender tries to deconstruct the zoo to table him. I took this as the HoP allowing for the zoo to be built and told the bartender to stop trying to deconstruct it. Although as soon as the HoP left the bartender continues to deconstruct it so he gets tabled, I tell the botanist to cut the tabling out and when he does the bartender starts beating on him so the borg tasers him and brings him to the brig. I believe that anything before the HoP telling the bartender to stop was just typical IC shitlery yet after the HoP the bartender was still mad and disobeyed his superior and acted like an angry toddler not getting what he wants. I think this was entirely an IC issue and the bartender is mad because shit didnt go his way.

On a side note if anyone deserves to get banned its the engineers for not fixing my goddamn brig.

[mosquitoman]

I had not interacted with Head of Personnel during that round at any point in any way. All that you're inferring from a casual remark is false.

Sabbat, you would be best employed as a mine field clearing device, which you would eventually succeed at one way or the other. You are a genetic stain on the fabric of reality. A strong argument for late term abortion. Crystal healing and astral travel make more sense than the manipulative gibberish you keep producing in an attempt to reframe the whole situation in your favour. The issue boils down to a greybacked crotch-grabbing baggy pants ghetto monkey assistant marching into somebody's workplace to wreak havoc then acting hurt and surprised when they get slapped a few times and dragged out. Don't try turning this around as if I was a griefer, it's not going to work. All I did during the round was reacting to your actions appropriately and within reason, trying to undo your destruction, then removing whatever you've built without my permission in my area. If you tried doing the same in medbay, library, chapel, or some other place where everyone has access but there is a person working there, you'd have your sh*t slapped and you'd be dragged out in a heartbeat as well. If you want to build in the bar, become a bartender or ask the person running the place. Not the first time you tried ruining my round then lying through your teeth about it, and probably not the last, but at least I'll know what to expect from you from now on.

[Sabbat]

Ahem.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 576#p92576

I am pretty sure I found the problem.

Like I said the HoP was fine with it and supported it, every fight we had was solved IC by security and there were no murders. This was pretty silly and pointless though.

[Vekter]

Resolving this per other admins. Looks like an in-character issue.