baron bellybean: shuttle meta

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:11 am #111213

your byond account: Cik
your character name: brycen bigguyforyou(nukeop)
their character name: baron bellybean
their ckey: goymaster123
server & time: sibyl approx 2:45 AM CST
logs and/or screenshots: N/A was away from op shuttle at the time fetching the disk
description:

me & team resolved to do 'fag ops', infiltrating as a crew of cigarette butts. one of our number who lost us earlier gets spotted at arrivals and gets called out as an op by baron bellybean, but no one really bites. the cigarette butt infiltration team infiltrates to the teleporter door, emags in to the cap's office and starts shooting, killing the captain and a few others who had gathered there. a shootout starts but i manage to grab the disk and camouflage myself, sneaking as a cigarette to engineering maint disguised, then i ran for it back to the shuttle where i meet another op. the nuke's gone however at this point. i kill a few more people but the nuke was probably spaced so i just killed some and withdrew. i learned after the round from OOC that goymaster had meta'd the shuttle location, blown in (not sure on the explosive, but it was one tile(?) and spaced the nuke before we could get back to the shuttle.

we won a minor victory because i retained the disk, but the meta was clear. he didn't follow anyone back. as soon as he saw a nukeop suit he started grabbing tools to breach the shuttle according to OOC.

he apparently wasn't banned by ausops as meta'ing the shuttle is not against the rules. which i believe it actually is and has been forever.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:28 am #111214

Policy wise, specifically searching where the syndi shuttle positions are located for no reason isn't allowed. If someone has seen nuke ops come in from a certain direction, it's up in the air as to whether they are allowed to search that immediate area in space or not. If there's reasonable doubt from eyewitness accounts that goymaster knew of the nuke ops or a general direction they came from before he boarded it then yeah it might be meta.

I was not an eyewitness, the only relevant logs I pulled confirming that he broke in, and I was handling multiple lines of conversation as well as an unrelated issue when this happened.

Other complaints, such as stealing the nuke, breaking in etc, are unwritten rules at best and complaints about that should be directed towards the people who are capable of editing the rules page on the wiki, who I am not one of.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:32 am #111215

according to a guy in OOC that's what he did, but they'd have to post here to give proof. unfortunately OOC's muted so i can't link the thread.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:33 am #111216

Keep in mind breaking into the shuttle was completely impossible previously unless
A: some retard left the shutters open
B: they steal a syndie ID

Now that all turfs are destructable however, anyone can break into the shuttle with ease - something that isn't reflected in policy.

It's bloody awful if after hearing OPS!! you getting a space suit and tools, and flyin around the station to break into the ship and space the nuke.

Of course the ideal solution is just add turrets to the ship again, which bypasses most of the policy drama. Dunno why they got removed...

LNGLY · Post by **LNGLY** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:47 am #111218

I was an op this round

here is what happened chronologically

1) We agree to fag ops and depart

2) One guy gets lost and apparently spotted. Whitelist ops 2015.

3) The rest of us go get the disk

4) We go back to the shuttle

5) There is a hole in the shuttle's hull and the nuke is gone. No one knows where it went.

6) Baron Bellybean announces on the radio that the operatives have the nuclear authentication disk, and that he has spaced the nuke. He tells the crew that the shuttle is at the SW location.

7) 7-8 crewmembers charge into the shuttle and kill all of the operatives.

Baron Bellybean claims that he followed us back to the shuttle, which is literal horse shit because the nuke was already gone when we got there.

I have personally been gibbed and had the disk given to the nuke ops before because I chased the guy with the disk to their shuttle then I went inside and took it. If that is policy, how is it simultaneously policy that it's okay to see a nuke op, go meta all the shuttle spots, break into the shuttle, and space the nuke before anyone has even seen you? Please take this as an opportunity to, all of you, make up your minds about what is and isn't appropriate to do as a crewmember in a nuke round.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:11 am #111229

He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:50 am

green is my route, red is ops

I was going to do the solars, grabbed a hardsuit and a couple cable coils. I went through maint to get to the first solar and saw the ops, I ran out the emagged airlock into space and saw their shuttle.

I didn't expect to be able to weld in, but apparently you can now.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:51 am

invisty wrote:He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.

yes I went to check the shuttle locations before I knew it was ops

just as I'm known to do.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:54 am #111237

goymaster123 wrote:
invisty wrote:He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.
yes I went to check the shuttle locations before I knew it was ops

just as I'm known to do.

I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or you admitting you fucked up.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:00 am

Tornadium wrote: I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or you admitting you fucked up.

you have good reading comprehension skills.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:15 am #111241

goymaster123 wrote:
green is my route, red is ops

I was going to do the solars, grabbed a hardsuit and a couple cable coils. I went through maint to get to the first solar and saw the ops, I ran out the emagged airlock into space and saw their shuttle.

I didn't expect to be able to weld in, but apparently you can now.

you can't run out the airlock and find the shuttle, it's like 2 screen lengths to the southwest

edited: i'm a dummy

edit 2: wait, there's no way you were trying to wire the solars. by the time you were in any position to follow us we were on the exfil and had been in a running shooting match for at least a minute. you were the one who spotted us originally so you knew we were aboard. no way you were trying to "wire the solars" conveniently right next to the shuttle, that's baloney.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:34 am

Cik wrote: you can't run out the airlock and find the shuttle, it's like 2 screen lengths to the southwest

As you can see in my diagram, I went downwards.

Cik wrote: you were the one who spotted us originally so you knew we were aboard. no way you were trying to "wire the solars" conveniently right next to the shuttle, that's baloney.

yeah it's not like the shuttle parks next to the aft solar array or anything

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:50 am #111247

It is somewhat convenient that you went to the most commonly used spot for Ops to "wire the solars".

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:12 am #111249

Tornadium wrote:It is somewhat convenient that you went to the most commonly used spot for Ops to "wire the solars".

by the time he was in a position to 'wire the solars' we had already been aboard the station for like 5 minutes, and he knew about it because he called us out at least twice

:^)

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:05 pm #111258

goymaster123 wrote:
invisty wrote:He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.
yes I went to check the shuttle locations before I knew it was ops

just as I'm known to do.

This is just plain not allowed. Seriously bad metagaming.

Do you understand why this isn't allowed?

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:11 pm #111261

Vekter wrote:
goymaster123 wrote:
invisty wrote:He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.
yes I went to check the shuttle locations before I knew it was ops

just as I'm known to do.
This is just plain not allowed. Seriously bad metagaming.

Do you understand why this isn't allowed?

no

all other forms of metagaming are allowed

so do you?

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:14 pm #111262

Amnestik wrote:
Vekter wrote:
goymaster123 wrote:
invisty wrote:He didn't find the nuke ops accidentally, that's for sure.

I was the AI, and this guy practically made a bee-line to check the shuttle locations.
yes I went to check the shuttle locations before I knew it was ops

just as I'm known to do.
This is just plain not allowed. Seriously bad metagaming.

Do you understand why this isn't allowed?
no

all other forms of metagaming are allowed

so do you?

Not quite,

There are quite a few different metagaming actions that will get you dunked. Eg testing shuttle for rev.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:15 pm #111263

>all other forms of metagaming are allowed

?????????????

???????????? what

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:18 pm #111264

lets not get baited into replying to sarcasm

goy do you have an answer for the timing issue brought up by cik

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:21 pm #111265

Vekter I think goymaster was pretty clear about that post being sarcasm, re read it and the two after it

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:49 pm #111309

I thought attacking the shuttle like that was an instaban/instagib at the least. Maybe waiting there to ambush them on the way back is one thing, but spacing the nuke is way over the line.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:55 pm #111311

Wyzack wrote:Vekter I think goymaster was pretty clear about that post being sarcasm, re read it and the two after it

Not my fault he refuses to use sarcasm tags.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:49 pm

imblyings wrote:lets not get baited into replying to sarcasm

goy do you have an answer for the timing issue brought up by cik

I've already explained what happened, what timing issue? I saw a group of ops coming down from bombing telecomms and ran out the emagged airlock and spaced myself to the south of it.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:50 pm

Cik wrote:
Tornadium wrote:It is somewhat convenient that you went to the most commonly used spot for Ops to "wire the solars".
by the time he was in a position to 'wire the solars' we had already been aboard the station for like 5 minutes, and he knew about it because he called us out at least twice

:^)

I had to get a station bounced radio to call it, you had bombed out telecomms. This is way later on the timeline.

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:08 pm

goymaster123 wrote:
imblyings wrote:lets not get baited into replying to sarcasm

goy do you have an answer for the timing issue brought up by cik
I've already explained what happened, what timing issue? I saw a group of ops coming down from bombing telecomms and ran out the emagged airlock and spaced myself to the south of it.

Because that was TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THE FACT THE SYNDIE SHUTTLE DOCKS THERE EVERY TIME, HUH?

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:18 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
goymaster123 wrote:
imblyings wrote:lets not get baited into replying to sarcasm

goy do you have an answer for the timing issue brought up by cik
I've already explained what happened, what timing issue? I saw a group of ops coming down from bombing telecomms and ran out the emagged airlock and spaced myself to the south of it.
Because that was TOTALLY UNRELATED TO THE FACT THE SYNDIE SHUTTLE DOCKS THERE EVERY TIME, HUH?

I don't see how this was wrong, what, are you supposed to completely avoid the shuttle regardless of previous action, even if you're trying to escape from an op team? Even if you went out the airlock they emagged? That sounds pretty meta to me.

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:39 pm #111344

ITS NOT META LIKE IN BAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE "REALISTIC" ITS META ACTIONS THAT ARE ALSO EXTREMELY CHEAP AND CREATE A SHITTY EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE, LIKE I DUNNO, SPACING THE NUKE AFTER SNEAKING ON BOARD

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:58 pm #111350

Image of distance of syndie shuttle properly lined up at it's sw destination from the DM (just thought it would be helpful to show the distance between solars and the shuttle.)

Spoiler:

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:15 pm

TheWiznard wrote:Image of distance of syndie shuttle properly lined up at it's sw destination from the DM (just thought it would be helpful to show the distance between solars and the shuttle.)
Spoiler:

It was like, 4 am or something when this happened, I must have gone from the solars.

rdght91 wrote:ITS NOT META LIKE IN BAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE "REALISTIC" ITS META ACTIONS THAT ARE ALSO EXTREMELY CHEAP AND CREATE A SHITTY EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE, LIKE I DUNNO, SPACING THE NUKE AFTER SNEAKING ON BOARD

you need to calm down, it's not like this was done with any malice.

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:42 pm #111375

goymaster123 wrote:
TheWiznard wrote:Image of distance of syndie shuttle properly lined up at it's sw destination from the DM (just thought it would be helpful to show the distance between solars and the shuttle.)
Spoiler:
It was like, 4 am or something when this happened, I must have gone from the solars.

rdght91 wrote:ITS NOT META LIKE IN BAY WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE "REALISTIC" ITS META ACTIONS THAT ARE ALSO EXTREMELY CHEAP AND CREATE A SHITTY EXPERIENCE FOR EVERYONE, LIKE I DUNNO, SPACING THE NUKE AFTER SNEAKING ON BOARD
you need to calm down, it's not like this was done with any malice.

I'm not emotional, I'm writing in all caps because you can't seem to grasp the simple idea that what you did was simply win in a manner that makes the round shitty and anticlimatic.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:05 pm #111383

Why do ops always park in that exact same spot anyway.....

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:10 pm #111385

CPTANT wrote:Why do ops always park in that exact same spot anyway.....

Because its closest to tcomms and the AI.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:33 pm #111400

CPTANT wrote:Why do ops always park in that exact same spot anyway.....

it's a good insertion point because southwest maint is rarely travelled, it's near telecomms, the singularity and the AI is easy to reach by stealth. it's also favorable for hitting a bolted bridge, as you can move quickly through HOP office, conference room, into the bridge. the only other used spot generally is north, for attacking the armory directly.

goymaster123 · Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:59 pm

rdght91 wrote: I'm not emotional, I'm writing in all caps because you can't seem to grasp the simple idea that what you did was simply win in a manner that makes the round shitty and anticlimatic.

Most round ends are shitty and anticlimactic, hell the vast majority of the station dies in the vast majority of rounds.

LNGLY · Post by **LNGLY** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:38 pm #111410

goymaster123 wrote:
rdght91 wrote: I'm not emotional, I'm writing in all caps because you can't seem to grasp the simple idea that what you did was simply win in a manner that makes the round shitty and anticlimatic.
Most round ends are shitty and anticlimactic, hell the vast majority of the station dies in the vast majority of rounds.

doesn't really matter

you should understand that it's an uncool move to space the nuke

the round is literally unwinnable when you do that and no one had any opportunity to stop you at any point. based on how you spoke in OOC afterwards your entire point with this was to make people angry and congrats, you succeeded, hope this ban request goes well for you

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:46 pm #111412

It's always been my understanding that it's just finding the shuttle that is the issue

Not the actions taken with it - If found legitimately, free game.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:58 pm #111419

Scones wrote:It's always been my understanding that it's just finding the shuttle that is the issue

Not the actions taken with it - If found legitimately, free game.

The question is whether or not if was found legitimately

goymaster123 · Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:14 am

LNGLY wrote:
goymaster123 wrote:
rdght91 wrote: I'm not emotional, I'm writing in all caps because you can't seem to grasp the simple idea that what you did was simply win in a manner that makes the round shitty and anticlimatic.
Most round ends are shitty and anticlimactic, hell the vast majority of the station dies in the vast majority of rounds.
doesn't really matter

you should understand that it's an uncool move to space the nuke

the round is literally unwinnable when you do that and no one had any opportunity to stop you at any point. based on how you spoke in OOC afterwards your entire point with this was to make people angry and congrats, you succeeded, hope this ban request goes well for you

Syndies got a minor victory, and the onstation nuke was still a viable option.

goymaster123 · Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:15 am

Vekter wrote:
Scones wrote:It's always been my understanding that it's just finding the shuttle that is the issue

Not the actions taken with it - If found legitimately, free game.
The question is whether or not if was found legitimately

which I think has been pretty well gone over.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:25 am #111476

Vekter wrote:
Scones wrote:It's always been my understanding that it's just finding the shuttle that is the issue

Not the actions taken with it - If found legitimately, free game.
The question is whether or not if was found legitimately

Which the answer is: No

The shuttle can never be legitimately found accidentally. Accidentally finding the shuttle can never be enforced and so there is a blanket ban. Which should be pretty well known, just like the ban on moving the armory without some kind of break-in.

An example of legitimately finding the shuttle would be dressing up as a nuke-op, fooling the other nuke-ops that you're one of them, following them back to the shuttle, then setting off the nuke inside the syndie shuttle when they don't know how the nuclear authentication disk works and you offer to help.

Post by **Vekter** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:34 am #111495

goymaster123 wrote:
LNGLY wrote:
goymaster123 wrote:
rdght91 wrote: I'm not emotional, I'm writing in all caps because you can't seem to grasp the simple idea that what you did was simply win in a manner that makes the round shitty and anticlimatic.
Most round ends are shitty and anticlimactic, hell the vast majority of the station dies in the vast majority of rounds.
doesn't really matter

you should understand that it's an uncool move to space the nuke

the round is literally unwinnable when you do that and no one had any opportunity to stop you at any point. based on how you spoke in OOC afterwards your entire point with this was to make people angry and congrats, you succeeded, hope this ban request goes well for you
Syndies got a minor victory, and the onstation nuke was still a viable option.

This isn't possible without direct admin intervention.

I am withdrawing myself from this request as I feel I cannot judge impartially against goymaster.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:29 am #111502

Well,

from the info provided, the nuke ops get spotted by you, you head out to do solars, escape into space after bumping into some, and land at the shuttle only accidentally. That sound about right?

goymaster123 · Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:34 am

imblyings wrote:Well,

from the info provided, you head out to do solars, the nuke ops get spotted by you, escape into space directly after and land at the shuttle only accidentally. That sound about right?

close enough

goymaster123 · Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:51 am

ohnopigeons wrote: Which should be pretty well known.

please explain how it is well known when it is never mentioned in the rules or wiki.

EDIT: it is mentioned on the wiki.

Do not worry too much about the crew metagaming their way onto your ship early in the round, the spot the ship appears in is chosen by an agent from a list of several locations around the station. But they still may bumble onto the shuttle.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:03 am #111510

You skipped out the part where the nuke ops said you spotted them first before you then allegedly went out again to wire the solars in your answer. Not many people willingly wire solars after nuke ops get spotted, and I find it incredibly unlikely you would do that and then 'accidentally' find the shuttle.

It'll be a 3 day ban for use of information obtained outside the game, that being the position of the shuttle docking ports.