Clown Murder

[ShadowDimentio]

Your byond account: David273

Your character name: Slippy

Their character name: August Talon

Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): TheWulfe

Server and time: Sybil, somewhere around 4:30PM 10/23/15

Logs and/or screenshots: Could somebody dig these up for me? Thanks.

Description of what happened: I was clowning around with a spray bottle of water, standard clown stuff. I walk with August down the hall, and they shoot at me for no reason. I run away, and later find they've set me to arrest because Beepsky is after me. Then I run into them, and they chase me down the hall, gun out. I slip them with a banana and take their gun because they were being shit and shoot at them, but end up shooting myself. Then they fucking beat me to death in the hall, drag me to perma, strip my corpse, and buckle me to a bed.

Why they should be banned: They MURDERED me as a guard, after they started a fight with me and I retaliated, then dragged my corpse to perma so I'd never get revived. I was completely in the right here, and yet the admin I got stuck with, Jud1c470r, ruled in favor of the officer???

Yeeeeaaahhh I'm a little upset.

[Amelius]

Description of what happened: I was clowning around with a spray bottle of water, standard clown stuff. I walk with August down the hall, and they shoot at me for no reason. I run away, and later find they've set me to arrest because Beepsky is after me. Then I run into them, and they chase me down the hall, gun out. I slip them with a banana and take their gun because they were being shit and shoot at them, but end up shooting myself. Then they fucking beat me to death in the hall, drag me to perma, strip my corpse, and buckle me to a bed.

Why they should be banned: They MURDERED me as a guard, after they started a fight with me and I retaliated, then dragged my corpse to perma so I'd never get revived. I was completely in the right here, and yet the admin I got stuck with, Jud1c470r, ruled in favor of the officer???

Yeeeeaaahhh I'm a little upset.

Just gotta say that was completely legit, if not a tad bit shitty but still nothing bannable. Look at it from his perspective.

> Clown is being a shit and slipping people, possibly officers with prisoners as well as creating a general hazard.
> Attempt to arrest and apprehend for a brig sentence, clown resists arrest.
> Clown manages to slip them and steals their firearm.
> They attempt to use it on the guard to prolong the stun and fails from clumsiness.
> Beaten to death. Crimes are as follows: assault on an officer (possibly with lethal intent), resisting arrest, numerous cases of theft/assault, and possession of a restricted weapon. Oh, and don't forget sparking a manhunt.
> More than 10 minutes cumulatively elgible for a permabrigging as per spess law, or execution.

[ShadowDimentio]

I had slipped like, only the mime who was cool with it. There wasn't an outstanding warrant for me. He was ~LITERALLY~ attacking me before I had done anything.

And since fucking when are officers allowed to MURDER PEOPLE without authorization. Last I checked, beating people as guard is, you know, AGAINST SECURITY POLICY. ESPECIALLY if you do it until they DIE.

[Amelius]

And since fucking when are officers allowed to MURDER PEOPLE without authorization. Last I checked, beating people as guard is, you know, AGAINST SECURITY POLICY. ESPECIALLY if you do it until they DIE.

Since sec rules were relaxed really. You really don't see officers asking for head authorization to execute confirmed tators, unless every single traitor round where I fluked has been an utter fabrication, often involving the incineration of my corpse as well. So yeah, sec is allowed to murder without authorization, but the question is if it's valid in this case.

Beating folks is legitimate as well to an extent, if not a bit shitty. Like I said, according to space law you were elgible for a permabrigging, and being elgible for permabrigging, you are also for an execution. You had, at a minimum - a 302 (5 minutes, assault of an officer without lethal intent), a 101 (1 minute, resisting arrest), a 308 (5 minutes, theft), with the following additional potential charges: sparking a manhunt (depends on how long the sequence lasted), possession of a restricted weapon (304, 5 minutes), and x counts of creating a workplace hazard (slipping people with water, keep in mind the water lasts longer than you intend to trap someone), a 207, each worth 3 minutes.

Regardless, you're over 10 minutes.

[ShadowDimentio]

So what you're telling me is that security is well within its rights to try and arrest you for no good reason, and if you fight back because they just tried to arrest you for no good reason, they're allowed to stack like ten charges on you and execute you on the spot?

Because surely you must understand that's FUCKING RETARDED.

[TheNightingale]

Just because you don't know why you were arrested, that doesn't mean there was no reason for it. Maybe someone told Security you were a traitor, the mime complained without you knowing, or you were a suspect in a crime. You're not omniscient, and it's entirely possible that other people know things you don't. If, as a non-antag, Security tries to arrest you, they probably have a good reason for it. Assaulting them, taking their weapon and trying to attack them with it is a fast-track to deadchat.

(Well, that and using the r-slur, it's 2015...)

[ShadowDimentio]

I know what I have and haven't done, and I know I hadn't done anything to warrant an arrest. The guard was just being shit, no matter how you cut it, and he should get banned for it.

So yes. If some mumblefuck tries to arrest me when I haven't done anything, you best believe I'm resisting, if only because every single fucking time security has ever cuffed me they've either stolen my shit, brigged me for an exorbitant amount of time, or both.

Also who are you idiots and why are you posting in here. Admins and involved parties only, go away.

[M0nsoon]

I'm at work right now, but I can do some log diving when I get home. But honestly from what I read, I'm leaning more towards being legit

[sirnat]

The kill was not legit, and heres why.

Not even the HoS can execute without captain authorization.

They shot the clown without provocation, a stun baton would've worked easily enough, the OP was in fear of their life by this fucking idiot who decided "Im going to shoot the clown and not explain myself as to why!"

Him slipping the guy and taking his gun, he's pretty fucking harmless because.. He's a clown, he cant shoot the fuck out of someone.

After shooting himself the guy beats him to death, (Regular officers do not under any circumstance unless their life is in danger to kill ANYONE, unless authorized by the HoS)

This guy was just being a shit, he shouldn't have even touched the op in the first place, doing water slips doesn't even hurt you anymore.

Unless the sec officer even had reason to arrest him, IE someone telling him the clowns a traitor, then he should get a secban or note for this shitness.

And no, slipping one person is not worth a beating to the death, neither is taking a gun and then shooting yourself with it.

[Amelius]

The kill was not legit, and heres why.

Not even the HoS can execute without captain authorization.

That rule is never enforced these days, and for good reason - it's unwieldy, useless in almost every round since the Captain is invariably the least competent person on the station while being a gigantic loot pinata for any antag, and is unavailable most of the time. It's good manners to ask, but if someone's valid, they're valid in cuffs or outside of them, regardless of permissions provided or not provided by other players IG. That said, if the HoS says 'don't kill that confirmed tator' and you kill them, you accept the IC consequences, but no OOC action would be taken. Valid is salad.

Proof: every traitor round where I fluke, am arrested, and promptly beaten to death and incinerated in cuffs, often by a mob of officers without a second thought without Captain or HoS permission involved. Rules for sec were relaxed a long while back, and fortunately at that. There's talk of lowering the bar more, which is probably for the best.

> They shot the clown without provocation, a stun baton would've worked easily enough, the OP was in fear of their life by this fucking idiot who decided "Im going to shoot the clown and not explain myself as to why!"

They shot the clown with a taser. Officers do not need to say 'STOP CITIZEN, LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY I AM ARRESTING YOU SO YOU CAN PREEMPTIVELY SHOOT ME IN THE FACE' to make an arrest. The clown was watering floors, which warrants arrest as it is a crime under space law, and depending on the areas he's watering or if he's trying specifically to slip officers, he possibly caused people to escape, so the 'din do nuthin' argument is invalid. Watering floors on purpose is greytide shit anyway, so how can it possibly be shit to arrest for it?

> Unless the sec officer even had reason to arrest him, IE someone telling him the clowns a traitor, then he should get a secban or note for this shitness.

You make it sound like the arrest alone was rationale for a secban or a note. This is ludicrous, sec wouldn't be able to function under this point of view.

[imblyings]

>if you accrue over 10 minutes I get to perma or execute you because space law

what fucking meme is this, it's certainly not on the wiki page for space law and it's certainly not in the server rules

that being said, you don't need head authorization to execute now, you can execute whenever you feel it's necessary but it better be necessary and justified.

Players also have a tendency to skip out on mentioning things, intentionally or not. I'd wait for the player of the officer to reply before continuing.

[Amelius]

>if you accrue over 10 minutes I get to perma or execute you because space law

Never said that, the point is that at over 10 minutes you are elgible for a perma, and any case you are elgible for being perma'd, you're also elgible for an execution - both effectively do the same thing and remove someone from the rest of the round anyway, so it makes sense. Like it or not, but the clown accrued far more than 10 minutes worth of crimes, hence a perma is likely if anyone is following space law.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

The point being that the clown did nothing wrong , security arrested him because FUCK CLOWN, clown fought back, at which point they used their admin-enforced right to murder anyone who attacks them.

[Jacough]

I slip them with a banana and take their gun because they were being shit and shoot at them

Biggest mistake right here. Taking an officer's taser is asking for a lot of trouble as it is. It's pretty much their only initial ranged weapon and if there's no warden or he's not hanging around the brig or gone then getting a replacement can be a bit of a pain in the ass. Now picking up that officer's taser and then trying to SHOOT him with it? Well shit now you've just shown some pretty serious hostile intent and you're pretty much begging the officer to fry your rectum with the tip of his baton. At most you should have just slipped him and run away.

[imblyings]

>over 10 minutes
>eligible for perma
a meme, handed down by generations of sec officers who've had to justify locking away shitters. This isn't in the space law wiki page and it's not in the rules. I can understand finding excuses to lock away a horrible person who's been an absolute nuisance but the 10min=perma=execution thing won't stand by itself.

Similarly I can kind of understand the officer freaking out with the harmbaton but dragging the clown to perma and then hiding the body seems a bit too much. Still that's without the story from the officer involved.

[CPTANT]

Space law never says that a punishment over 10 minutes means perma, it says you need to inform the warden so he can add the time that is over 10 minutes. It says you can perma for repeated offences.

Also it says certain crimes don't stack. Punishing every act of picking up a taser with a 10 minute sentence as it is both theft of the taser and possession of a restricted weapon is bullshit. I perma'ed someone yesterday for telling the AI to gas the liggers and even I am not THAT shit.

Ohw and space law is a guideline/suggestion.

[ShadowDimentio]

Who are these unrelated autists that keep coming in here trying to justify that guard being a shit

2. If you are not an admin or directly involved with the ban request(You are the one being ban requested, you saw what happened, you were his victim, etc.) then do not post in the ban request

Go away

Also jesus I can't believe that security has gotten so cancerous that people actually try justifying flat-out fucking murder because HE FOUGHT BACK AFTER I TRIED TO ARREST HIM, MURDERBONE ENGAGED and THIS IS JUST HOW SECURITY IS NOW LET HIM MURDER IF HE WANTS

[M0nsoon]

So I went over the logs last night, it seems it was really just a case of bad escalation, and I would've given them a warning and a note about it since it's their first time doing something like that. But like Imblyings said let's just wait on their side of the story before we give them full judgement.

[Docprofsmith]

As the admin who initially ruled on this I already gave a warning and a note to TheWulfe.

[ShadowDimentio]

UNSATISFACTORY, THERE NEEDS TO BE BLOOD

[onleavedontatme]

UNSATISFACTORY, THERE NEEDS TO BE BLOOD

This board should really only be used to draw attention to longterm round after round issues or players setting the station on fire with no admins on, not to facilitate petty revenge. Sounds like the officer was being shitty but spending days trying to get back at him despite him already getting a penalty is also shitty.

You died in a videogame, you didnt agree 100% with the admin who responded, move on.