Security Borg ignoring direct law 2 orders

[newfren]

Your byond account: Newfren

Your character name: Bill Nefren

Their character name: Security Cyborg-821

Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Nope22

Server and time: 2015-10-26, around server time 11:00

Logs and/or screenshots: -

Description of what happened: I was breaking into EVA and they arrested me - alright fine whatever, you don't have to follow spacelaw but that doesn't mean you can't when it doesn't interefere with your laws sure. I tell it Law 2, stop arresting me - it does not. It takes me out of EVA and I tell it Law 2, let me back into EVA. It does not. When I ask what its laws are of the AI the AI tells me it's asimov and the borg is linked to it. I ask the secborg why it's not letting me in - it tells me that it's a law 1 concern because the captain MIGHT LASER ME TO DEATH for breaking into EVA.

I continue to break into EVA (I needed shit from in there for I think building a maint autolathe and murdering everyone later but that's fairly irrelevant) and the borg again arrests me, takes me to the brig, and puts me in a cell for 3 minutes. During this three minute sentence the AI is calling out various people over the radio as having I think E-Swords or E-Daggers and murdering people - the borg decides that the best way it can prevent harm is by baby sitting me at my cell instead of going to try and stop the murderer, even after I told the borg what the AI was saying over the radio.

Why they should be banned: If this was a security officer doing this shit then sure, I think you're a bit of a cunt but you're doing your job. However it was a secborg that made extremely flimsy justifications for ignoring Law 2 requests, then proceeded to ignore a Law 1 threat to baby sit me. Hoping for a silicon ban because this was fairly horseshit!

[Nope22]

Oh boy where to start. First of all you left out the very important issue of you being a grey tiding/shitter breaking into high security places for literately no reason at all. But I guess I have to go further into this to make you actually understand why I brigged you in the first place. The first thing I see when I come around the corner is you breaking into Eva for no apparent reason other then to lol greytide despite the fact the captain that was currently in that round was known to brutally punish people least I intervene, such as the guy he almost whipped to death and it was very fucking clear that if he even /saw/ you he would pull out the policy of grey shits breaking into high security places for a vaild kill thus i Took the initiative. You as a fucking player needs to understand that picking Assisant out of ALL people does not give you the SLIGHTEST right of freedom to break into shit,cause unwanted problems for the rest of the crew then try to l-law 2 borg let me go! And its funny also that you just /happened/ to be after by a confirmed holoparaiste at the time that I brigged you to further keep you from getting fucking killed but oh no lets not mention that at all.


Overall you were acting shit, you got the boot sec cyborg or not I had full reason to get you away from eva and keep you from being a fucking head ache to everybody else how you have not copped a ban from assistant yet is beyond me. Another note to add is the admin at the time did not seem to have a problem with me stopping your shitty behaviour but I'll let them pull up the logs to deal with you.

Minor edit: It also appears you are unaware of the policy of Probable harm/future harm I suggest you go read it.

[bandit]

An0n3 Amendment: security policy literally says:

EVA and the like are not permitted to have access denied; greentext (antagonists completing objectives) is not human harm.

As for releasing prisoners (emphasis mine):

Nonviolent prisoners cannot be assumed harmful and violent prisoners cannot be assumed nonharmful. Releasing a harmful criminal is a harmful act.

And the policies about silicons and harm, in full (emphasis mine):

An Asimov-compliant silicon cannot intentionally inflict harm, even if a minor amount of harm would prevent a major amount of harm.
Humans can be assumed to know whether an action will harm them and that they will make educated decisions about whether they will be harmed if they have complete information about a situation.
Lesser immediate harm takes priority over greater future harm.
Intent to cause immediate harm can be considered immediate harm.
As an Asimov silicon, you cannot punish past harm if ordered not to, only prevent future harm.
If faced with a situation in which human harm is all but guaranteed (Loose xenos, bombs, hostage situations, etc.), do your best and act in good faith while not violating 2.1.1 and you'll be fine.

None of which particularly allows for "it was very fucking clear that if he even /saw/ you he would pull out the policy of grey shits breaking into high security places for a vaild kill," unless the captain outright said "I'm going to laser you if you break into EVA."

[Wyzack]

This is why secborgs are always shit. You cannot pull a fucking flimsy law1 justification out of your ass to enforce space law

[Jazaen]

Humans can be assumed to know whether an action will harm them and that they will make educated decisions

Pretty sure that he was knowingly doing something that could resist in his harm, and you didn't have to brig him to protect him from harm.
Also, if cap really WAS a condom, he could have killed him regardless, so the proper course of action would be to take him to genetics/surgery and change his identity. Taking him to security, place historically full of bloodthirsty people, doesn't seem to be a good idea.

[onleavedontatme]

Maybe you should have arrested the captain for attacking people instead of his potential future victims for being attacked?

[Saegrimr]

OH BOY WHERE TO START INDEED!

First of all you left out the very important issue of you being a grey tiding/shitter breaking into high security places for literately no reason at all.

Like the armory or engineering? That'd be the only way you could possibly law 1 someone out of there.
There is nothing dangerous about EVA.

The first thing I see when I come around the corner is you breaking into Eva for no apparent reason other then to lol greytide

Good thing theres no "Law 0: Prevent greytiders from breaking into EVA"

despite the fact the captain that was currently in that round was known to brutally punish people least I intervene, such as the guy he almost whipped to death and it was very fucking clear that if he even /saw/ you he would pull out the policy of grey shits breaking into high security places for a vaild kill thus i Took the initiative.

And you should be arresting the Captain for harming others.

You as a fucking player needs to understand that picking Assisant out of ALL people does not give you the SLIGHTEST right of freedom to break into shit,cause unwanted problems for the rest of the crew then try to l-law 2 borg let me go! And its funny also that you just /happened/ to be after by a confirmed holoparaiste at the time that I brigged you to further keep you from getting fucking killed but oh no lets not mention that at all.

You as a fucking player need to understand that picking a cyborg, especially secborg that has BIG RED TEXT saying that you are to follow your AI's laws and not space law, does not give you the SLIGHTEST right of freedom to break any of your laws, for any reason. Welcome to ASIMOV, literally the human bitchslave.


So barring any extra information that might appear like him toolboxing someone on his way into EVA, i'll be applying a week silicon ban for egregious and willing violations of your laws.

[Saegrimr]

[10:37:18]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : Law 1 overdies law 2
[10:37:43]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : The harm of the captain lasering you to death
[10:37:45]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : For breaking in
[10:38:08]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : The captain is not the problem
[10:38:13]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : You are acting as the problem
[10:38:16]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : Stop breaking into shit maybe.
[10:38:28]SAY: Security Cyborg-821/Nope22 : Future harm comes first

And after checking the logs, haha no.

[oranges]

Usually I err on the side of not arresting people unless they're harming or I get a direct order to do it.

Basically playing secborg sucks, if security is competent they'll use you to detain only and not do the actual arresting.

[imblyings]

a ban was placed by saegrimr for this, closing.