Wilson Stockwell (stun and cuffing cult teammates)

[Atticat]

Your byond account: Atticat
Your character name: Zeela Takk
Their character name: Wilson Stockwell
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Xhuis
Server and time: Sybil , around 7:30 PM 11/2/2015
Logs and/or screenshots: Can retrieve them if needed (Irishwristwatch was present to the event because he responded to my adminhelp)

[00:02:19]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : meet me at lockers - dont get caught with it please.
[00:02:19]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : meet me at lockers - dont get caught with it please.
[00:02:19]SAY: Zeela Takk/Atticat : meet me at lockers - dont get caught with it please.
[00:06:18]ATTACK: Wilson Stockwell(xhuis) handcuffed Zeela Takk(atticat) (NEWHP: 95)
[00:06:43]SAY: Wilson Stockwell/Xhuis : You start giving out supplies
[00:06:44]SAY: Wilson Stockwell/Xhuis : Right now
[00:06:49]SAY: Wilson Stockwell/Xhuis : Or I tell security the names of all the cultists.






Description of what happened: I spawned as an engineer and was selected for cult. There were three of us I believe. The three starter cultists were myself (zeela takk), the bartender, and the CMO. Early on, the CMO was caught and I never heard from him again. The bartender didn't do much so I took the lead and told him to meet me at arrivals. We began to convert people via a cult rune under some tables under the guise of a "peaceful cult" and were slowly gathering more members over time. I had whispered to the bartender to stun lone security so we could sacrifice/space them but he never complied with these suggestions leaving myself to carry the whole team (which I was unable to). At one point I converted Wilson Stockwell, who asked for a tome. I told him over cult chat to meet me in lockers. I probably should have been more specific, but he never arrived at the lockers where I was waiting with the tome. I returned to arrivals where I was tabled by wilson, and then cuffed. He then threatened to "reveal the cult names to security" if we did not give him supplies RIGHT NOW.



Why they should be banned: I do not believe it is ok to throw a temper tantrum when you don't get your way (even though I tried to supply him with a tome) and attack the people that converted you while threatening to out them to security. Please keep in mind, it was basically myself doing everything on my own in an increasingly chaotic situation and my team seemed quite impaired. Wilson Stockwell (a converted cultist) put me in serious danger by stunning and cuffing me (a head cultist). He did not uncuff me, that was another team member. Wilson Stockwell clearly acted against the group and I hope he can receive some sort of ban that allows him to approach the situation with less tantrum next time I.E. understanding I was TRYING to get a tome to him if he just read cult chat.

[Zilenan91]

Were the cuffs friendly?


In all seriousness, from what I remember of the incident, he was waiting upwards of 20 minutes to get a tome, and even though you had told him to meet in locker rooms, he might not have been immediately able to do that, so it took a while, during which you left, and after he saw you, he stunned and cuffed you so that he could make his own tome and actually be a contribution to the team. More of a misunderstanding than anything else. Also head cultists don't exists, all cultists are equal.

[Atticat]

It was a hectic part of the shift because we were being invaded/attacked by non-cultists in our arrivals base (construction area). While I was trying to organize people and get the hulks to stop smashing tables hiding our conversion ruins, Wilson went ape on me; making a bad situation much, much worse and effectively ground our cult actions to a halt as everybody became confused and enraged from infighting.

[Xhuis]

Wilson here.

When I was converted, it was because I heard you whispering to stunpaper me when I was alone and decided to go in there in case you were actually a cultist, whereupon I was converted. This outraged me, and I was baffled as to what you guys had been doing for the entire shift. I asked about getting a tome and was told by Alexander Reach that the cult was peaceful. He told me that evidence meant discovery and that since it could lead to violence, nobody had them.

I promptly said that it was bullshit but I was told that the "High Priest" had one as they were wise. I used Imperfect Communion to contact you, whereupon you told me to wait at the locker rooms, where I went. After waiting for around two minutes, I went back to the vacant office (where the cult hid out) and discovered that you had opted to ignore me and instead clumsily fail to convert a hulk, still refusing to give out tomes. In response to this, I tabled you and cablecuffed you, then started removing your backpack to take your tome to create more and start giving them out. At this point Alexander Reach punches me and removes your cablecuffs.

I headed to the entrance to the vacant office to get away from Alexander (who is a hulk, and I was worried he would start attacking me) and threatened to tell Security. I never intended to do this. It would be directly violating team antagonist policy in a much more blatant way than cablecuffing you and making more tomes would. Assuming you ignored me, I would have acquired stun materials, taken you prisoner, and given out tomes as I was going to do in the first place. Instead, you finally saw some sense and started making tomes. I grabbed one, complained over cult chat for a bit, then headed into maintenance to use astral communion to locate our sacrifice target (the detective) who, by this point, had all of the superpowers from genetics, giving us almost no hope of catching him.

The rest of the story doesn't need repeating. We tried to go on the shuttle and got utterly destroyed. I used Blind and Deafen runes to cripple the shuttle, then dragged you (handcuffed by Security) to Thomas Laser, another cultist, and we all invoked a Boil Blood rune. This didn't result in anything because the Gygax promptly wrecked the few survivors that didn't die from the boil rune.

I was very tempted to make a ban request for you, but I decided the issue wasn't worth pursuing. Now, though, you've had the audacity to make your own. Here's my list of problems with how you played that round:

• You decided to deliberately stagnate the round by retreating into peaceful mode
• You refused to give out tomes to cultists, despite cultists being entirely reliant on tomes to succeed - the equivalent of removing conversion pens from gang leaders at roundstart
• You ignored my request for a tome instead of simply telling me that "We won't be using them", and ordered the rest of the cultists not to use tomes before keeping one for yourself and only using it for yourself
• You only started giving out tomes very close to shuttle arrival, and by then most of the cultists were braindead anyway because they had nothing to do and were useless to the cause
• You disregarded your teammates and instead went onto the shuttle alone and were promptly arrested due to your status as a cultist, and our vain attempts to secure control of the shuttle ended very quickly because no cultists were left that weren't braindead

You claim that the peaceful cult was a ruse, but it seems to me like you convinced the rest of the cult it was true then kind of went along with it anyway. By the time you decided to "go loud", barely any cultists were left because they had nothing to do and went braindead after you told them that they were effectively useless. I imagine many of them had complaints, but I was the only one vocal enough to actively pursue complaining about it. When we finally got on the shuttle you started wailing some bullshit about how it's "time to use the magic juice".

I may be a validhunter. I may only care about greentext. But the point of an antagonist is to spice up the round, and you deliberately avoided doing this by refusing to give your converts anything they could use. You completely disrupted the cult's activity, and by not giving anyone tomes, caused the pent-up infighting that I finally released by fighting back.

Oh, and your title is inaccurate. I never laid a finger on any cultists besides you, and that was only to cablecuff you and table you. I didn't do a single point of damage, directly, to any of my cult allies in the entire round.

As for the complaints in your thread:

• I didn't get the chance to uncuff you because I was next to you for the whole of five seconds before Alexander Reach punched me over and uncuffed you himself.
• You were surrounded by fellow cultists, one of them a hulk, with not a single non-cultist in sight. You were in no danger at all.
• You didn't try to get a tome to me. You said for me to wait at locker rooms when I asked, then passed me by and went to the vacant office to talk with the rest of the cultists instead of me. I was standing by the personal lockers the entire time, and unless you ducked through maintenance to get out, there was no way you could have missed me.
• You tell me that you team seems impaired. This is absolutely true and caused directly because of your refusal to give out tomes and thereby give them the means to do anything at all!

Perhaps tell the whole story the next time you mean to make a case against me.

[Atticat]

You cannot accuse me of hoarding tomes when I specifically told you to come to the lockers to receive one. Your failure to come to the lockers or pull me away from the chaos that was our cult base (that I had to manage alone) does not grant the right to attack your teammates.



Regarding your misdirected rage at me being a "peaceful cult"


[23:56:35]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : stun warden with paper if you can
[23:56:35]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : stun warden with paper if you can

[23:58:34]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : when one of them is alone stun paper them
[23:58:34]WHISPER: Zeela Takk/Atticat : when one of them is alone stun paper them

This was said to the other round-start cultist (bartender) who was doing nothing but acting as a liability the entire time. He never stunned anybody or took any aggressive actions against security.


You being enraged does not grant the right to attack your teammate cultists and threaten to sell them out to security.


"Oh, and your title is inaccurate. I never laid a finger on any cultists besides you, and that was only to cablecuff you and table you. I didn't do a single point of damage, directly, to any of my cult allies in the entire round." Policy already dictates stunning and cuffing can be assumed intent to kill.


Let's break it down simply:

1. You requested a tome
2. I told you to meet me at lockers
3. You never showed up
4. I went looking for you at the vacant office
5. You stunned and cuffed me and threatened to sell out the entire cult if you didn't get "your supplies"
6. I was targeted for trying to help you. If I had ignore you, none of this would have occurred.

[Xhuis]

• I was at the locker rooms seconds after you told me to go there. I was there for several minutes before I left and discovered you at our cult base.
• There was no present danger at the cult base. We were surrounded by friendly cultists, and I wanted to show them that I didn't mean to kill you outright - dragging you away could only be seen is pure malicious intent, not just taking off your backpack.
• You might have decided abruptly that you no longer wanted to be peaceful, but the rest of the cult was divided because they thought you were being serious. In team antagonists, you are not the sole antagonist, even if you were the one who rolled it roundstart.
• I did not attack my teammates. I nonharmfully cuffed you. I did threaten to sell you out to Security - I will be the first to admit that - but I also admit that I never meant to actually do it. I had plenty of time alone on the shuttle to relay everything to the Security on the shuttle but didn't do so.

[Atticat]

There WAS danger. There was mass chaos as the hulks smashed tables hiding runes and attacked non-cultists who were invading the area. THEN the hulks began to attack you because they witnessed you attacking me. You stunned and cuffed me while we were being discovered by non-cultists. In your own words you were enraged. You became angry and attacked your teammates for that reason. Unfortunately I was targeted because I was trying to help you instead of ignoring you like the fucking bartender ignored me the entire round.

[Xhuis]

There WAS danger. There was mass chaos as the hulks smashed tables hiding runes and attacked non-cultists who were invading the area. THEN the hulks began to attack you because they witnessed you attacking me. You stunned and cuffed me while we were being discovered by non-cultists.

The only "mass chaos" was a single assistant hulk smashing down walls because they were a shittider. At time of cablecuffing you, there was no imminent danger whatsoever. No shouts over radio, no people with weapons, nothing. The only people that showed up immediately ran off because of how many cultists there were.

Edit: If you're going to continue editing your posts minutes after posting them, please have the courtesy to specify said edits.

[Atticat]

So the question of the day is "Does being frustrated at your converter who tried to help you grant the right to stun and cuff them?"

[Xhuis]

So the question of the day is "Does being frustrated at your converter who tried to help you give you the right to stun and cuff them?"

Does creating a fake ruse of being friendly and then refusing to give the team antagonists the things they need entirely to succeed remove the justification from being angry? You are completely ignoring the fact that I said multiple times that I was at the locker room on this thread, waiting for you for several minutes.

[Atticat]

I tried to help you; you didn't show at lockers so I went to look for you. HOWEVER, I did not hunt you down and cuff you for failing to arrive at lockers. I went looking for you. Unfortunately, you had something else in mind. You being frustrated is not good enough, imho.

[Xhuis]

I tried to help you; you didn't show at lockers so I went to look for you. HOWEVER, I did not hunt you down and cuff you for failing to arrive at lockers. I went looking for you. Unfortunately, you had something else in mind.

I was the one who asked for the tome. You were the only one in the entire cult who had a tome that was willing to use it. Me being angry for failing to receive this is different from being angry because of my own failing to give it out.

[Atticat]

The bartender had a tome and may have given some to other cultists. Again, you prove you misdirected your anger at the only person willing to help you and answer your requests.

[rdght91]

If it matters, I think this is the same player who I remember was stunning, arresting on flimsy pretenses and forcefeeding people alcohol as security.

[J_Madison]

If it matters, I think this is the same player who I remember was stunning, arresting on flimsy pretenses and forcefeeding people alcohol as security.

That was not alcohol; nobody was force fed alcohol.
I had lost my 100u flask of holy water. I was the Chaplain.
This was a cult round. Nobody in security nor myself was willing to put ourselves at risk to get a container.
Instead we opted to use the two beer bottles in the Chaplain roundstart bible to contain the holy water.
All alcohol was drunk by me before hand.

Anyway, since I was directly involved during the cult round, I have some closing statements:
Out of all of the people we caught (more than 10-20), 2 were cultists. Everyone else was a dud.

Your peaceful cult effectively ruined the round, pissed everyone off since we had to individually grab, force, implant, and kidnap people for extended periods of time.
Several people died as a result of this because they got killed during our attempts to secure suspected cultists.

Oldman Robustin decided it was a hilarious idea to take the atmos hardsuit, fuck off from atmos, and spend the entire round walking around with himself set on fire and attacked those that tried to out the fire out. I'll make a thread on this.

[TheNightingale]

"Your peaceful cult effectively ruined the round, pissed everyone off since we had to individually grab, force, implant, and kidnap people for extended periods of time."

Wouldn't it be possible to deal with a peaceful cult... peacefully? Rather than take them down by force like a SWAT team on a mission? Say, conduct some investigations, call the suspects in for questioning, get them to confess by shining a lamp in their face... loyalty implants are good, but they're not always the solution.

[Zilenan91]

>the antag that has a 10 second stun that one item in the entire game can counter, and can be shat out at a stupid rate.

There's no treating a cult friendly. They have too ridiculous a stun for that.

[J_Madison]

"Your peaceful cult effectively ruined the round, pissed everyone off since we had to individually grab, force, implant, and kidnap people for extended periods of time."

Wouldn't it be possible to deal with a peaceful cult... peacefully? Rather than take them down by force like a SWAT team on a mission? Say, conduct some investigations, call the suspects in for questioning, get them to confess by shining a lamp in their face... loyalty implants are good, but they're not always the solution.

Yeah, I don't just mean all of security, the anti-cult implanted players, or myself.

Considering TWO PEOPLE can effectively stun two people for incredibly long periods of time and immediately GIB THEM, cult sounds perfectly fucking peaceful.

I'm talking people getting flat out slaughtered because we believe there is a cult, and they're getting armed in cargo or hulked in MedBay, and they decided to get a litle antsy.

You see what's happened? Everyone that was slaughtered in MedBay wasn't cult. "peesful colt" effectively risked everyone in sec and myself getting banned, and put others at risk of ruining their round for your autistic shitshow.

Call in suspects?
This isn't high, medium or low rp server. This is a NO RP server. My ass would anyone listen to security when they're hulked up.

welcome to roleplay. I learned roleplaying doesn't work in tg the hard way. Shoot them to crit first, answer ahelps and questions later.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

"Your peaceful cult effectively ruined the round, pissed everyone off since we had to individually grab, force, implant, and kidnap people for extended periods of time."

Wouldn't it be possible to deal with a peaceful cult... peacefully? Rather than take them down by force like a SWAT team on a mission? Say, conduct some investigations, call the suspects in for questioning, get them to confess by shining a lamp in their face... loyalty implants are good, but they're not always the solution.

Yeah, I don't just mean all of security, the anti-cult implanted players, or myself.

Considering TWO PEOPLE can effectively stun two people for incredibly long periods of time and immediately GIB THEM, cult sounds perfectly fucking peaceful.

I'm talking people getting flat out slaughtered because we believe there is a cult, and they're getting armed in cargo or hulked in MedBay, and they decided to get a litle antsy.

You see what's happened? Everyone that was slaughtered in MedBay wasn't cult. "peesful colt" effectively risked everyone in sec and myself getting banned, and put others at risk of ruining their round for your autistic shitshow.

Call in suspects?
This isn't high, medium or low rp server. This is a NO RP server. My ass would anyone listen to security when they're hulked up.

welcome to roleplay. I learned roleplaying doesn't work in tg the hard way. Shoot them to crit first, answer ahelps and questions later.

Are you seriously saying that it's the antags fault you charged into a random department and slaughtered it to a man as sec because the victims were'nt antags?

Are you seriously saying that cults not converting the department you pick to murder is somehow them banbaiting you?

What the actual fuck, madison. Also this is a lowRP server you cock.

[J_Madison]

"Your peaceful cult effectively ruined the round, pissed everyone off since we had to individually grab, force, implant, and kidnap people for extended periods of time."

Wouldn't it be possible to deal with a peaceful cult... peacefully? Rather than take them down by force like a SWAT team on a mission? Say, conduct some investigations, call the suspects in for questioning, get them to confess by shining a lamp in their face... loyalty implants are good, but they're not always the solution.

Yeah, I don't just mean all of security, the anti-cult implanted players, or myself.

Considering TWO PEOPLE can effectively stun two people for incredibly long periods of time and immediately GIB THEM, cult sounds perfectly fucking peaceful.

I'm talking people getting flat out slaughtered because we believe there is a cult, and they're getting armed in cargo or hulked in MedBay, and they decided to get a litle antsy.

You see what's happened? Everyone that was slaughtered in MedBay wasn't cult. "peesful colt" effectively risked everyone in sec and myself getting banned, and put others at risk of ruining their round for your autistic shitshow.

Call in suspects?
This isn't high, medium or low rp server. This is a NO RP server. My ass would anyone listen to security when they're hulked up.

welcome to roleplay. I learned roleplaying doesn't work in tg the hard way. Shoot them to crit first, answer ahelps and questions later.

Are you seriously saying that it's the antags fault you charged into a random department and slaughtered it to a man as sec because the victims were'nt antags?

Are you seriously saying that cults not converting the department you pick to murder is somehow them banbaiting you?

What the actual fuck, madison. Also this is a lowRP server you cock.

Maybe I've got different standards for RP, but I see very little of it, that's the thing.

I personally didn't get involved in the slaughter, but several people were killed and people were extremely upset throughout the whole ordeal - I wouldn't be surprised if people got notes for slaughtering people in medbay when they were near the genetics machine due to the fear of "cult" and "hulks".


-edit

I mean, here's a hypothetical scenario for a cult.

"peaceful cult". A cult member starts "shouting cultists names" and drops some books near say, science.

What're Security going to do? Ignore it?
Knowing most players in science, they probably wouldn't want to "let security just cuff them and feed them holy water" and it would probably result in a slaughterfest.

That risks a ban.

edit 2 after supportbus discussion:

What're we gonna do about "sec slaughtering deparments during cult" ignore ahelps?

Here's a genuine round of a "passive, slow cult".
3 cultists in virology, one lets the others soulstone him and uses wraith to kill the AI.
two remaining cultists move to xenobio, convert two scientists there.
This is when the warden and HOS show up to medbay, kill EVERYONE in medbay, then move onto science and kill everyone there.

18 people dead in two departments, 1 was a cultist, other two had ran off into maint. Cult redtexts due to a botched attempt to convert a chef.

But there's that hypothetical scenario, a passive slow cult is similar to a peaceful cult in many ways, and that scenario resulted in more than 20 people being killed, and only two of them cultists.

[oranges]

I may be a validhunter. I may only care about greentext. But the point of an antagonist is to spice up the round, and you deliberately avoided doing this by refusing to give your converts anything they could use. You completely disrupted the cult's activity, and by not giving anyone tomes, caused the pent-up infighting that I finally released by fighting back.

The fuck man, if you don't like a team antag gimmick then go fucking braindead and do something else.

edit: if a sec officer ever copped a ban for murdering people in a cult round when they resisted a raid I'd eat my fucking hat on camera.

editedit:
[00:06:49]SAY: Wilson Stockwell/Xhuis : Or I tell security the names of all the cultists.
Honestly this alone should net you teamantag ban.

[Xhuis]

The fuck man, if you don't like a team antag gimmick then go fucking braindead and do something else.

Being converted to a team antagonist and not liking the way the self-proclaimed leader handles things shouldn't be a reason to force me off the game. I didn't intend to bring the issue up in the first place, as it was an IC issue, but Atticat made the ban request, not me.

[00:06:49]SAY: Wilson Stockwell/Xhuis : Or I tell security the names of all the cultists.
Honestly this alone should net you teamantag ban.

Assuming you read my post above, you would know that this is farce, especially because I had several opportunities to speak to Security and didn't rat us out (despite my enormous temptation to do so).

[Saegrimr]

Xhuis said some stupid things but fuck "peaceful" antags, seriously.

[callanrockslol]

Xhuis said some stupid things but fuck "peaceful" antags, seriously.

under the guise of a "peaceful cult" and were slowly gathering more members over time. I had whispered to the bartender to stun lone security so we could sacrifice/space them

A ruse. Violently kidnapping and murdering sec wasn't very peaceful.

[Saegrimr]

Alright so here's the real question: Did anything actually happen beyond "I got cuffed over communication errors"?

You implied you were doing a dumb friendly cult gimmick.
Xhuis said something stupid, and tabled you to get a tome, then got punched.
Everybody fucked off on their merry way.

None of what happened between the two of you contributed to progress or detriment to the round. In fact the only one that got hurt was the one you're making a ban request against.

Literally the only thing to do here is suck it up.