Lance Hardwood - Lasering to crit as nonantag

[Sweaterkittens]

Your byond account: Sweaterkittens
Your character name: Ardens (in the round in question), Jayne Hightower

Their character name: Lance Hardwood
Their byond account: u/k

Server and time: Sybil, 4:45 PST
Logs and/or screenshots: Server crashed during ahelps, could not retrieve logs.
Description of what happened: I was playing atmospherics tech and helping to fix a flood. Whoever flooded had routed the plasma tank directly into the air mix line. So after repairing the piping, I cleared the air mix line of plasma, and then turned it back on. Lance, who was another atmos tech, came in and started to turn off line, telling me the distro pipes still had plasma in them. On scan, they had 2% plasma. For those unfamiliar with Atmos, the distribution loop is connected to every vent on the station. Lance insisted that we siphon the entire distro loop to get the 2% of plasma, disregarding the fact that it was Metastation and even with a volume pump that would take an obscene amount of time to drain the entire loop (as well as the fact that it would keep areas from re-pressurizing). I instead installed a volume pump into the air line, so that as new air was pumped into distro, it would dilute the plasma in the loop (while it was being siphoned) as well as not completely suffocate the station, as several areas had been depressurized from plasma fires or panic syphons. In any case, my method was not dangerous and far more effective than trying to siphon the entire stations distro loop.

Lance disagrees, and starts telling me "If you touch it again I'm going to laser you into crit". Which is shit, since I'm a fellow atmospherics tech, and both of our opinions are equally valid. I continue trying to fix it as I don't want half the station to be depressurized, and he lasers me to crit.

Why they should be banned: Unless he was an antagonist, warning me that he's going to laser me into crit because he personally does not like the way I atmos doesn't make it okay to then do so. It's never been a precedent that you can say "I'm going to beat you to death with this toolbox if you walk down my hallway!" and that somehow makes you allowed to do so. Human or not, this very clearly falls under rule 1. If I had been some rando in atmos, I would take it, but I was an atmospherics technician, doing my job, and got lasered half to death by this guy.

[IrishWristWatch0]

Basically IC it looked like you were trying to continue pumping plasma. He warned you and tried to get you to stop. But IC it looks like you were trying to stop him from fixing the problem. I talked to him about the lasering being a bit much but he stated 'I didn't particularly have a choice, but sure'. So the lasering you to crit and bringing you to medbay IMO was justified IC, a bit much but justified.

[Sweaterkittens]

I would like to clarify that it did not look like I was trying to continue pumping plasma AT ALL. This is where logs would be really handy. He scanned the air mix pipe, HE EVEN AGREED THAT THERE WAS NO PLASMA IN IT. I remember distinctly that he said "Yeah it is" when I told him it was clear. It was not even remotely fucking justified, it was very clear that he did not think I was going to pump plasma, only that he disagreed with my solution.

EDIT: He would have to be OUTRAGEOUSLY incompetent to think that what I was doing was flooding plasma, after scanning the goddamn pipes. If that is the case, and he was truly that inept, it shouldn't excuse his actions.

[NemoVonFish]

This was already handled by the admins, but alright, i'll reply.

There were two loops here, the Distro and the.. uh, what's the light blue one. Whatever. Dark Blue and Light Blue. Tater faget put plasma in both of them. We got rid of the plasma in the light blue one, but there was still plasma in the dark blue one, that's why I said what I said. You refused to drain the dark blue one that goes to the rest of the station, under the justification that it'd be diluted, despite the fact that even a little plasma in the air will give people toxin damage.

even with a volume pump that would take an obscene amount of time to drain the entire loop (as well as the fact that it would keep areas from re-pressurizing)

I don't want half the station to be depressurized

Yeah, nah, I've drained the distro loop entirely from 2,000kpa in about five minutes, it doesn't take much time at all. And no places were depressurized; we were fighting a plasma flood, not hull breaches.

I was an atmospherics technician, doing my job

You weren't doing your job, you were half-assing your job, and I asked you several times to stop, but you silently turned it back on again. If you don't want to do your job properly, sure, fine, whatever, but don't deliberately impede someone that does.

The moment you went down I dragged you straight to medbay, told the admin that bwoinked me to wait while I healed you before I replied, made sure you were actually healing, then left. If I had any other option to stop you leaving plasma in the distro loop I would have used it.

[Sweaterkittens]

The light blue one is the air line. The traitor routed plasma through the air line, which then went into distro. Do you even know how atmos works? The dark blue one IS THE REST OF THE STATION. You seemed completely oblivious to the fact that anything in the "Dark Blue Pipes" Aka, the distro line, was already open to the vents. My justification of diluting it was entirely relevant FOR THAT EXACT REASON. The fact that it was draining into the station anyway made it even more important that the contents of that pipe be a clean air mix, and there WERE areas that were depressurized. We were fighting a plasmaflood, some of which got ignited, some that got panic-siphoned, making areas depressurized. Again I have to say, do you know how atmos works? Because you honestly don't strike me like you have a lot of experience.

You didn't "ask me to stop", you demanded I let you do your shitty "siphon all the air out" routine and threatened me with death if I did my job.

"Don't deliberately impede someone that does [do their job]" Hilarious that you'd say that, being that that is EXACTLY what you were doing to me. I didn't "silently turn it back on", I told you what I was doing, I explained how it was going to help, and you continually threatened to laser me if I didn't let you be king of atmosia. You don't get to threaten a coworker with death because you're fucking bad at the game and you don't understand what they're doing, or how it helps. The fact you dragged me to medbay makes fuckall of difference because it was your fucking incompetence and aggression that led us there in the first place. It is arguable which method was better, I stand by that mine was, but you don't get to fucking crit someone REGARDLESS of your intention afterward because you think you could do a better job.

Just so the admins can see this clearly, you're saying "You were half-assing your job (you thought), so it makes it okay that I lasered you for doing your job in your department

[NikNakFlak]

Alright, I tested a fair amount of things said here and got a varying number of results.

The first thing that I tested was how fast I could clear the distro line completely. From 1000 kpa, it took 25m27s39 (25 minutes, 27 seconds) with it shooting into waste on full blast. I can only assume it would take close to 40 minutes with 2000kpa. This was with a regular pump. With a volume pump, it took around 22 minutes for 1000 kpa. Barely an improvement to be honest. Either way, sweaters is correct that it would take forever regardless and would be very in-effective. 5 minutes for 2000 kpa simply isn't possible to clear the distro into waste.

The next thing I would like to bring up is that sweaterkittens way of flooding air into the depressurizing areas actually worked. With 2% of plasma in the distro line, the plasma that came out into the area was less than even traceable amounts so while he would be in-fact still pushing plasma to distro, the amount was so small that if the scrubbers were set to scrub plasma, it cleared it in less than 5 minutes. However this method has some drawbacks. First, it only effected areas that were de-pressurized due to panic siphons. An area un-effected by plasma but which still had less than ideal pressure would get flooded with these trace amounts and though small, they still dealt toxin damage. However again, if the scrubbers were set to scrub plasma, it would clear up the small amounts in no time. The second drawback is this method only is effective if someone manually turns the scrubbers to plasma, otherwise it just floods more (though small) amounts of plasma into a room. In this specific instance, it would seem that sweaters idea not only worked but was way more effective because regardless of which other way was used, clearing the distro line takes forever and is simply just pretty terrible.

If a fire had burned in a room and the pressure was high due to no one panic siphoning then it wouldn't matter because distro wouldn't push new air in anyway.


So Nemo was in fact, wrong.

[imblyings]

Even without taking into consideration the analysis offered above, I'd treat this the same way I'd treat a scientist lasering another one for not following their research pastebin say, during a blob round.

Gonna apply a standard dayban and close this.