Potential new design push
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Potential new design push
No new modes for a while, instead we look to add new antags to the existing roundtypes, like traitor+changeling but with more antag types.
i.e traitor+changeling + internal affairs etc.
i.e traitor+changeling + internal affairs etc.
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Re: Potential new design push
What ever happened to the idea of datum antags? Did that just quietly die in the corner or what?
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Re: Potential new design push
It's still happening, but a lot of existing antags would not fit within a traitor round and not disrupt it to an extreme extend
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Re: Potential new design push
no one wants to make anything new out of fear of it getting rejected by maintainers after applying hundreds of hours of work to it.
this will eventually lead to stagnation, player loss, then the overall death of the community.
no one believes me because im oxford but hey thats none of my busniess.
this will eventually lead to stagnation, player loss, then the overall death of the community.
no one believes me because im oxford but hey thats none of my busniess.
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Re: Potential new design push
We have had 644 active pull requests in the last month, why do you post things that are just entirely disconnected from reality?oxford
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Re: Potential new design push
none of those 644 pull requests were
-this big new game changing interesting game mode planet amazing loads of content map- (excluding j_mad, and you)-
they we're
-ecigs now fit in your wallet horray-
(noting jmad and you are both horribly understaffed and horribly under motivated and me nor several hundred other people would be surprised if you simply got tired of working on the idea)
and i wouldn't blame you, i do it all the time and im the idea master.
EDIT:
additionally, just looking at the github, TODAY there are 38 pull requests open, SIX have a feature tag.
https://gyazo.com/d3b3903e184fda30c4342476b890f365
five of which are actual features, one is just adding subcategories to the crafting menu.
none of which are "look at this new game mode with hundreds of hours put into it" or "look at this new indepth feature that took me hundreds of hours to make" which was the point of the op
its the same people making the same vague 2 hour ideas.
theres only so much content you can put into a space station over the course of 11 years before you start repeating yourself
you specifically did what i said you would do in my reply to the op which only proves my point more
-this big new game changing interesting game mode planet amazing loads of content map- (excluding j_mad, and you)-
they we're
-ecigs now fit in your wallet horray-
(noting jmad and you are both horribly understaffed and horribly under motivated and me nor several hundred other people would be surprised if you simply got tired of working on the idea)
and i wouldn't blame you, i do it all the time and im the idea master.
EDIT:
additionally, just looking at the github, TODAY there are 38 pull requests open, SIX have a feature tag.
https://gyazo.com/d3b3903e184fda30c4342476b890f365
five of which are actual features, one is just adding subcategories to the crafting menu.
none of which are "look at this new game mode with hundreds of hours put into it" or "look at this new indepth feature that took me hundreds of hours to make" which was the point of the op
its the same people making the same vague 2 hour ideas.
theres only so much content you can put into a space station over the course of 11 years before you start repeating yourself
you specifically did what i said you would do in my reply to the op which only proves my point more
Last edited by John_Oxford on Wed May 31, 2017 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Potential new design push
dont fall for his baitKor wrote:We have had 644 active pull requests in the last month, why do you post things that are just entirely disconnected from reality?oxford
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Re: Potential new design push
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original idea was more along the lines of "choose a 'primary' antag (ie:round type) and season with additional lesser antags up to quota.oranges wrote:It's still happening, but a lot of existing antags would not fit within a traitor round and not disrupt it to an extreme extend
My favorite concept has always been to flesh out the different syndicate factions for traitors and let players choose (or simply forced, to avoid memesters going for murderboner choice all the time) which faction they want to assist.
Assisting a specific faction gives more difficult, and faction themed objectives, and has a different uplink list - with items costing more or less (plus some faction specific items) based on the theme of the faction.
So a Gorlex marauder agent might have better/cheaper access to weapons and exploses, and "slaughter every member of the science department" as an objective, where a Cybersun operative would have better access to stealthy and subversive equipment and some obscure objective like "implicate the CE for the murder of the RD (kill the RD and get the CE taken to centcomm in the shuttle brig? I uno, probably hard to implement)".
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Re: Potential new design push
additional "its oxford dont listen to him" postBeeSting12 wrote:dont fall for his baitKor wrote:We have had 644 active pull requests in the last month, why do you post things that are just entirely disconnected from reality?oxford
i don't blame you i've memed myself into irrelevancy but i'm raising a valid point, its the same one i've been raising for as long as i've been playing here and its always been dismissed on the premise that im oxford.
EDIT:
if you take a look at the contributors list, its 380.
thats 380 people who have contributed to the github over the entire course that this community has been alive.
if you look everyone who has made atleast 100 contributions or more (which is roughly 50 people) they are either
A: a maintainer
B: MSO
C: a headmin (shoutout to CR for being the top contributor next to the master acc)
D: a ex-maintainer
or E: someone who has openly agreed with me that their contributions are either shut down by maintainers or reverted to fast (contributions are counted as passed PRs, not all the ideas that are still in the game and haven't been reverted)
https://gyazo.com/b7847557fbd12b06a83c9038c272f5af
this is the graph of contributions generated by github.
its almost half way through 2017, explain to me statistically why the graph isn't either A: going higher or B: matching the contributions from 2016.
its because we are in decline, its simple statistics.
Last edited by John_Oxford on Wed May 31, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- BeeSting12
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Re: Potential new design push
You would be more relevant if you do your research. I try to do a bit of research before posting on the forums about something so I sound informed and not an idiot peanut posting and it doesn't always work but hey what do i know
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Re: Potential new design push
thats quite literally what im doingBeeSting12 wrote:You would be more relevant if you do your research. I try to do a bit of research before posting on the forums about something so I sound informed and not an idiot peanut posting and it doesn't always work but hey what do i know
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Re: Potential new design push
that was posted before your edit. good for you
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Re: Potential new design push
The community's lifespan exceeds the github's lifespan. There have always been ups and downs. We're experiencing a lot of coder burnout, we've had a few freezes in the past year or so, what we need to focus on is improving what we have instead of adding more ill-conceived shallow new toys.
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Re: Potential new design push
this.captain sawrge wrote:The community's lifespan exceeds the github's lifespan. There have always been ups and downs. We're experiencing a lot of coder burnout, we've had a few freezes in the past year or so, what we need to focus on is improving what we have instead of adding more ill-conceived shallow new toys.
edit: no wait shit i agreed with sawre how do i un-agree
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Potential new design push
ctrl-zNot-Dorsidarf wrote:this.captain sawrge wrote:The community's lifespan exceeds the github's lifespan. There have always been ups and downs. We're experiencing a lot of coder burnout, we've had a few freezes in the past year or so, what we need to focus on is improving what we have instead of adding more ill-conceived shallow new toys.
edit: no wait shit i agreed with sawre how do i un-agree
Limey wrote:its too late.
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Re: Potential new design push
you do know you should ask first if you want to get controversial stuff through?John_Oxford wrote:no one wants to make anything new out of fear of it getting rejected by maintainers after applying hundreds of hours of work to it.
this will eventually lead to stagnation, player loss, then the overall death of the community.
no one believes me because im oxford but hey thats none of my busniess.
Then the only reason your stuff won't get through is either:
A. We said no, congratulations you didn't waste any time
B. We say yes, but your code is shit
Option B can be solved if you actually listen to feedback, instead of trying something, being told no, giving 5 minutes of attempts at the proper way and then going "nah I'm going back to the way you told me not to do" (Which spoilers, gets it denied)
Simple really, just because you put effort in doesn't mean you're entitled to a merge.
私は完璧
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Re: Potential new design push
Well, this thread got derailed fast.
- oranges
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Re: Potential new design push
I went in with such high hopes
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Re: Potential new design push
Well ignoring the memester, is something like the syndicate faction thing I mentioned something you'd think would be interesting?
While it's not an outright new antag, it would add something fresh to the gamemode, and a bit of variety.
While it's not an outright new antag, it would add something fresh to the gamemode, and a bit of variety.
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Re: Potential new design push
yes that is actually quite a nice idea, one it lets us flesh out some of the syndicate lore some more, but more importantly it focuses people to play more strongly along certain lines, like a stealth faction, a combat faction etc.
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Re: Potential new design push
The general gist of it as far as I can envision would be:
1) Themed objectives (probably multiple)
2) certain faction appropriate items discounted to some extend. Perhaps 1 or more faction only items available
3) Certain faction inappropriate items increased in price or outright not available
4) Fluffy info given on how to behave (stealthy/explosive fuck you, etc) as per faction lore (gorelex trusts all factions, cybersun only trust cybersun and mi13 agents, waffle only trust gorelex (not even other waffle agents, HONK)
Probably contentious, but it would be the most FUN if traitors were given the option of working for a specific faction round start (may or may not know which faction?), but if they choose to accept, they MUST (contrary to normal server rules) actually try and follow 4 above.
That way, if you're a turbonerd that just wants to greentext or murderbone, you can simply ignore the system, but if you want an interested theme to your tatoring, you have the option of doing so.
1) Themed objectives (probably multiple)
2) certain faction appropriate items discounted to some extend. Perhaps 1 or more faction only items available
3) Certain faction inappropriate items increased in price or outright not available
4) Fluffy info given on how to behave (stealthy/explosive fuck you, etc) as per faction lore (gorelex trusts all factions, cybersun only trust cybersun and mi13 agents, waffle only trust gorelex (not even other waffle agents, HONK)
Probably contentious, but it would be the most FUN if traitors were given the option of working for a specific faction round start (may or may not know which faction?), but if they choose to accept, they MUST (contrary to normal server rules) actually try and follow 4 above.
That way, if you're a turbonerd that just wants to greentext or murderbone, you can simply ignore the system, but if you want an interested theme to your tatoring, you have the option of doing so.
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Re: Potential new design push
We have a fucking ton of side antags as it is. I'm not sure why we need more
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Re: Potential new design push
revenant, ninja, abductor, any others?
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Re: Potential new design push
swarmers
morph
slaughter memon
devils maybe
morph
slaughter memon
devils maybe
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Re: Potential new design push
Wasn't there a old idea of fleshing out the individual factions that are members of the Syndicate, and then randomly assigned traitors to one of these factions?
Each faction would have somewhat different objectives and some unique tools. The random assignment was suggested to prevent everyone from picking a meta faction.
Each faction would have somewhat different objectives and some unique tools. The random assignment was suggested to prevent everyone from picking a meta faction.
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Re: Potential new design push
no steelpoint you can't add marines get out
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Re: Potential new design push
We could use some more independent non-solo antags aside from traitor and ling. Maybe a mode with a high number of unequipped antags a la rev, or a cultlike antag that does not play in a team.
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Re: Potential new design push
I like the idea of, for a minor antag / midround antag, a "riot", where a bunch of people are all given the objectives to destroy as much of the station as possible without killing anyone
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- captain sawrge
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Re: Potential new design push
That kind of thing works much better when it just happens on its ownNot-Dorsidarf wrote:I like the idea of, for a minor antag / midround antag, a "riot", where a bunch of people are all given the objectives to destroy as much of the station as possible without killing anyone
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Re: Potential new design push
I think every mode should have a chance of having 1 or 2 traitors.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Potential new design push
Counts PR's or Commits or purposes of THIS issue is silly Kor.
It's no secret that people who try BIG THINGS tend to get BIG DICKS in their ass for the effort. People who touch major aspects of modes are either people like you who can remove and replace our 3rd largest mode within 48 hours and from the moment you type a single line of code you have the priceless blessing of knowing that your work will be merged - and people like me or Xhuis who just end up being incredibly disgruntled and burnt out. For me its not even because of being bossed around by people who don't even play, but practically the opposite, maintainers not really offering anything except silence or "Fuck this" and 0 transparency about what it takes to get a big idea merged around here. Maintainers have no appetite for disruption outside of their very narrow ideal so being a maintainer, or as well connected as one, is a requirement if you are a reasonably sane person who doesn't like watching hundreds of hours of work thrown into the dumpster.
Anyway: Datum antags and more antag mixing is just as disruptive as adding any new mode. Almost any crossover will require dozens of snowflake adjustments to the "hybrid" mode. It can be made to work but it just raises the question of "how does stuffing more antags into this round enhance it?" In some cases it could work simply by virtue of adding more variety to the average (and super stale) traitor round, but I fear in most it would just create nightmare scenarios where you get conversion antags with ebows or whatever.
It's no secret that people who try BIG THINGS tend to get BIG DICKS in their ass for the effort. People who touch major aspects of modes are either people like you who can remove and replace our 3rd largest mode within 48 hours and from the moment you type a single line of code you have the priceless blessing of knowing that your work will be merged - and people like me or Xhuis who just end up being incredibly disgruntled and burnt out. For me its not even because of being bossed around by people who don't even play, but practically the opposite, maintainers not really offering anything except silence or "Fuck this" and 0 transparency about what it takes to get a big idea merged around here. Maintainers have no appetite for disruption outside of their very narrow ideal so being a maintainer, or as well connected as one, is a requirement if you are a reasonably sane person who doesn't like watching hundreds of hours of work thrown into the dumpster.
Anyway: Datum antags and more antag mixing is just as disruptive as adding any new mode. Almost any crossover will require dozens of snowflake adjustments to the "hybrid" mode. It can be made to work but it just raises the question of "how does stuffing more antags into this round enhance it?" In some cases it could work simply by virtue of adding more variety to the average (and super stale) traitor round, but I fear in most it would just create nightmare scenarios where you get conversion antags with ebows or whatever.
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Re: Potential new design push
I think traitors and lings should simply be told to prioritize their own objectives over group objectives.Oldman Robustin wrote:Counts PR's or Commits or purposes of THIS issue is silly Kor.
It's no secret that people who try BIG THINGS tend to get BIG DICKS in their ass for the effort. People who touch major aspects of modes are either people like you who can remove and replace our 3rd largest mode within 48 hours and from the moment you type a single line of code you have the priceless blessing of knowing that your work will be merged - and people like me or Xhuis who just end up being incredibly disgruntled and burnt out. For me its not even because of being bossed around by people who don't even play, but practically the opposite, maintainers not really offering anything except silence or "Fuck this" and 0 transparency about what it takes to get a big idea merged around here. Maintainers have no appetite for disruption outside of their very narrow ideal so being a maintainer, or as well connected as one, is a requirement if you are a reasonably sane person who doesn't like watching hundreds of hours of work thrown into the dumpster.
Anyway: Datum antags and more antag mixing is just as disruptive as adding any new mode. Almost any crossover will require dozens of snowflake adjustments to the "hybrid" mode. It can be made to work but it just raises the question of "how does stuffing more antags into this round enhance it?" In some cases it could work simply by virtue of adding more variety to the average (and super stale) traitor round, but I fear in most it would just create nightmare scenarios where you get conversion antags with ebows or whatever.
I think it would be hilarious if a traitor backstabs a Nar'Sie summoning or a changeling eats an operative.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Potential new design push
Yeah but then you have the "antags are allowed to do whatever" kick in and suddenly people with the cult IFF are mowing down their companions
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: Potential new design push
If there is a clearly established antag priority, the "how many layers of brainwashed are you on" scale or whatever
for example
"changeling > cult > traitor > rev > whatever"
Maybe it would be worth trialing. Shaking things up is fun.
Yeah, that guy that looks like a fellow rev is fucking you up, think fast.
At the same time, it might be necessary to limit stuff like traitor revs assisting heads of staff just to make the revs lose.
The real question is, which thread would get an increase in stories, "stories of awesome" or "stories of rage, tears and regret".
for example
"changeling > cult > traitor > rev > whatever"
Maybe it would be worth trialing. Shaking things up is fun.
Yeah, that guy that looks like a fellow rev is fucking you up, think fast.
At the same time, it might be necessary to limit stuff like traitor revs assisting heads of staff just to make the revs lose.
The real question is, which thread would get an increase in stories, "stories of awesome" or "stories of rage, tears and regret".
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement
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Re: Potential new design push
If I understand what you're saying, you're saying that you'll have Cultists who started as Traitors and are now Cultists (With Traitor objectives and items) killing other cultists.Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Yeah but then you have the "antags are allowed to do whatever" kick in and suddenly people with the cult IFF are mowing down their companions
Simplest fix to that issue is simply making it so brain washing over rules traitors. Whilst you'll keep your stuff, you lose your alignment to the Syndicate, just like brain washing a standard crew member loses their alignment to NT.
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Re: Potential new design push
I don't think this will be going anywhere soon for some obvious reasons
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Re: Potential new design push
Datum antags is absolutely what this game needs, and a mode instead of secret where any number of antags can come at once, because one of the largest problems is 'oh it's a ling round time to dump this nuke disk in the trash i need backpack space'
Oldman Robustin wrote:It's an established meme that coders don't play this game.
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Re: Potential new design push
But traitors that DO backstab cultists are way more interesting.Jzoid wrote:If I understand what you're saying, you're saying that you'll have Cultists who started as Traitors and are now Cultists (With Traitor objectives and items) killing other cultists.Not-Dorsidarf wrote:Yeah but then you have the "antags are allowed to do whatever" kick in and suddenly people with the cult IFF are mowing down their companions
Simplest fix to that issue is simply making it so brain washing over rules traitors. Whilst you'll keep your stuff, you lose your alignment to the Syndicate, just like brain washing a standard crew member loses their alignment to NT.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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- TGMC Administrator
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- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Potential new design push
Traitors backstabbing their cult buddies is fine - as long as it's helping them achieve their traitor objectives.
It's as straight forward as silicon laws - the AI will obey human instructions, but if it has to ignore that in order to save a human life, then that's ok - and the players (mostly) seem to manage that just fine.
Of course this makes cult objectives very incompatible with most tators and lings, since they most commonly have to survive the round to win... but hey, that just makes interesting situations where they want the cult to succeed, just not before they can steal the CE's magboots or whatever, and want to see nar nar summoned, but they would rather be cheering on the ritual from a safe distance then actively participating in it.
It's as straight forward as silicon laws - the AI will obey human instructions, but if it has to ignore that in order to save a human life, then that's ok - and the players (mostly) seem to manage that just fine.
Of course this makes cult objectives very incompatible with most tators and lings, since they most commonly have to survive the round to win... but hey, that just makes interesting situations where they want the cult to succeed, just not before they can steal the CE's magboots or whatever, and want to see nar nar summoned, but they would rather be cheering on the ritual from a safe distance then actively participating in it.
- ShadowDimentio
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
- Byond Username: David273
Re: Potential new design push
A huge improvement to the game would be reverting lings to how they were in the ye olden days, or just removing them.
But hey that's just a theory, a GAME THEORY
But hey that's just a theory, a GAME THEORY
Spoiler:
- oranges
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Re: Potential new design push
get out of here david, shoo, shoo
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