Box Removal Discussion

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Megarop
 
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 am
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Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby Megarop » Mon May 04, 2020 9:52 pm #560611

oranges wrote:Are you asking me? I enjoy the job

Some of the stuff you say really makes it sound like you don't.
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oranges
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Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby oranges » Mon May 04, 2020 10:18 pm #560613

Sounds like a projection on your part

halitosisman
 
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:24 pm
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Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby halitosisman » Tue May 05, 2020 6:49 am #560641

Flatulent wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:
Flatulent wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:As a general question about future maps, what is the stance on the addition of a map with the concept that it's built in mind with a particular gamemode?

can’t you already load maps if you are admin? Why bother adding an event map into the code, this is content bloat. It won’t be used all the time.

That's not really good logic, cult isn't run 24/7 so is it content bloat? .357 revolvers aren't used all the time, they're content bloat too! As long as the map/mode is in rotation then it's not content bloat.

.357 revolvers can always be purchased if you are traitor, there is no element of chance that would lock you out of buying one. Cult can always roll as long as it’s enabled in config.

An event map may be completely forgotten or may overtake all other maps(and by extension, all other gamemodes) depending on the reception of the game mode. We have gamemode voting disabled, but voting for such a map would be a vote of secret/dynamic vs this new gamemode. Considering there are only so many maps coders can maintain(as oranges himself said in the map vote thread), this new event map would take place of an another map that could be played with any ruleset currently available on tg. Instead of having a choice between 5-6 maps if you want to play secret/dynamic, you now have a choice between 4-5. While it may not sound like such a big problem, today if Meta and Delta were removed from the map vote, you would have an option between Pubby and Box. That’s about it, really. Box is a buggy and badly designed mess and Pubby is a lowpop map.

There is also a problem of metaknowledge. Consider the following: imagine if there was a map that was designed exclusively for xenos. The entire crew knows xenoes are going to spawn. Roboticists will focus on mass-producing cheap mechs for the crew. Assistants will make acquiring bio hoods or other face covering helmets their top priority. A selective plasma flood may be prepared by atmospherics, provided that there won’t be any threat to crew. People will be more armed and prepared for xenos in comparison to an average round where crew wasn’t alerted that xenoes would spawn this round. The gamemode MUST be designed like warops, where crew is alerted roundstart that nukies are here to fuck shit up. But we all know how this plays out every time with war ops. People suicide all the time. Many don’t find warops fun, but since this new hypothetical game mode is announced before the round even begins, it being rolled guarantees some pop death, severity depending on reception of the game mode.


New maps already get forgotten. How can the reception of new maps get any worse? If it overtakes other maps, doesn't that mean it's a hit with the playerbase (or the admins)?

Also, early game metaknowledge exists for every gamemode, even traitors. Do you think security is looking for soap every time they bother to search new prisoners? The difference with traitors is that preparing for a deathmatch is typically not a wise response. For any other gamemode it usually is.

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Tue May 05, 2020 6:53 am #560642

well i guess we ll have to see next year with the same thread as no new content is going to be merged on box, while mappers focus on new/map they like....

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Flatulent
 
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:36 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Byond Username: FlatulentIndustrialist

Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby Flatulent » Tue May 05, 2020 9:48 am #560646

halitosisman wrote:
Flatulent wrote:
BeeSting12 wrote:
Flatulent wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:As a general question about future maps, what is the stance on the addition of a map with the concept that it's built in mind with a particular gamemode?

can’t you already load maps if you are admin? Why bother adding an event map into the code, this is content bloat. It won’t be used all the time.

That's not really good logic, cult isn't run 24/7 so is it content bloat? .357 revolvers aren't used all the time, they're content bloat too! As long as the map/mode is in rotation then it's not content bloat.

-snip-


New maps already get forgotten. How can the reception of new maps get any worse? If it overtakes other maps, doesn't that mean it's a hit with the playerbase (or the admins)?

Also, early game metaknowledge exists for every gamemode, even traitors. Do you think security is looking for soap every time they bother to search new prisoners? The difference with traitors is that preparing for a deathmatch is typically not a wise response. For any other gamemode it usually is.

1. There have been no new maps except kilo, donut rework and ice box. Kilo is a buggy unmaintained mess that doesn’t even work, everyone apparently hated donut a lot and ice box is just box and box fucking sucks. New maps will not get forgotten if they are good. This new map would have to be ultra good to even stand a chance in a map vote because the vast majority of people would want to play secret/dynamic. No matter how good the game mode is, it will not overtake secret/dynamic simply because they offer too much variety. They offer a lot of rulesets. A new gamemode has to be just one ruleset with just one way to play it.

2. Early game meta knowledge for traitors doesn’t even make any sense because you can’t prepare for all varieties of traitors. Chances are you won’t be prepared for SOMETHING unless you get all the fucking gear there is. Traitor has so much shit that power gaming them specifically is an exercise in futility. You powergame them exactly like how you would powergame cult or lings or revs. Just think about how you would deal with a desworder and why would your methods not work against other antags.
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MisterPerson
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Re: Box Removal Discussion

Postby MisterPerson » Wed May 06, 2020 6:03 am #560736

This thread has gone wildly off topic and serves no real purpose. If/when icebox is ready, then we can revisit this. Until then, I'm just going to lock the thread.
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