MEDBAY LAYOUT CHANGE: VOTE OR DIE EDITION

[Pennwick]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Goof just added some new explosive stuff that's pretty fucking robust.

If its so robust that its causing severe damage more than a few tiles away with standard sized beakers BY ACCIDENT then maybe there are some balance issues that should be looked at before implementing them. Chemistry is already almost as lethal as toxins, a department 100% dedicated to putting holes in the station.

Really I think the biggest plus that the current chemistry layout has is anyone walking into medbay has an eye on the chemists. Both the options on the poll give the chemists much greater privacy. If they're getting a buff in lethality they NEED those eyes on them. If science wants to do chemistry to test bombs build a chem dispenser, implement chem-master boards and or just give chemistry Sci access and *gasp* make them walk through the hallways to get to science.

[Saltycut]

Chemistry needs to be easy accesible to people who will often ask for some chemicals like botanists, janitors etc., therfore I vote option 2. I don't like how its shaped though, that little empty area between sec checkpoint and chemistry desk looks kind of odd.

[imblyings]

I'd rather Lumi's proposals to the map be added, rather than any of the offered two map changes, if change absolutely had to occur.

I say this because boxstation is the result of years of tweaking and it's matured into a map that just works. It's intuitive, things are convenient, and the general layout is pleasing enough on the eye. Lumi's changes preserve that feeling while addressing the issues that caused this proposed layout change.

[Fayrik]

I agree with imblyings. Could we get a poll option for Lumi's layout?

[Cheimon]

Since that would reset the poll (same justification for not adding a 'I don't like either' option), it seems unlikely.

At this point with the clear consesnsus we have so far can we at least see if Goofball's prepared to edit his option 2 to make it more palatable to the players?

[Incomptinence]

Can we get a yield on these chemistry mishaps what would bore through rwalls on the other side of the hall?

[lumipharon]

A x2 large beaker black powder nade is 1,4,7 (unless it rounds to the closest full number, then it would be 2,4,7).

[MrStonedOne]

This is refering to not-yet merged changes, not black powder and the like. no idea what goof has in store, but hey apparently, hes holding back on the medbay changes and just making this something for science/toxins to fuck with some how.

[whodaloo]

Can you fit a mirror into genetics somewhere, regardless of which change goes through? We might as well get something good out of these awful redesigns.

[lumipharon]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/8401
>Chemistry Lab for Science

So since moving chemistry is so unpopular instead the new clever plan is to just duplicate chemistry into science.
Welcome to goonstation, enjoy your stay.

[MattNasty]

I vote option 2!

[AdenAbrafo]

This isn't goonstation goofball jesus
But seriously, moving chemistry into science as well makes no sense and is a bad idea. Think about how what you change will effect other parts of the game please. If you want chemists to be able to test grenades then connect it to the testing lab somehow, but chemist and scientist are two separate jobs and should remain as such. also this really isnt goonstation fuck

e: Elaboration on my view: Goofball, what you're trying to put into science legitimately looks like something I'd think to find on an admin z-level. Even if you toned it down a bit to one chem dispenser it would still be a god awful idea. I, and I'm sure everyone, understands that you are incredibly enthusiastic about goonchem and pyrotechnics but what you are doing is literally changing the map so that a job which isn't even related to chemistry has chemistry access so that they can test out your new toys. Please keep your chem/sci bias away from github while you're making changes if you can't make actual good changes.

PS. I had an idea for a medbay redesign. Switch current genetics with current chemistry, switch xenobio with the misc testing lab and then connect chem to the testing lab with a tunnel or something. With this design and a little bit of effort I'm fairly sure chemistry could end up connected to the testing lab while remaining in medical, you just have to fit a table to the hall in somewhere.

[Cheimon]

Connecting chem to the testing lab with a tunnel is as simple as giving chemists the relevant accesses so they can go through maintenance.

Putting chemistry dispensers in science where they're literally about as hidden as you can get without being in maintenance is just asking for villainy. How is anyone going to keep track of what they're making if it's away from anyone's obvious view? I can't see this being a good idea.

[Loonikus]

Connecting chem to the testing lab with a tunnel is as simple as giving chemists the relevant accesses so they can go through maintenance.

Putting chemistry dispensers in science where they're literally about as hidden as you can get without being in maintenance is just asking for villainy. How is anyone going to keep track of what they're making if it's away from anyone's obvious view? I can't see this being a good idea.

Thats kind of the point. It reinforces the idea that science is supposed to make chemicals for themselves, not replace medbays chemistry. As to its security, its vulnerability is kind of a good thing since it gives traitors a greater chance to exploit chemicals and poisons. Also, is department security not a thing anymore? If your that concerned with it, patrol it from time to time.

[Pennwick]

Its getting harder and harder for me not to just post sarcasm and flames.

I'm just not seeing a reason for all these changes. A chemist who wants to test a death mix grenade can go to the HoP for science access. A scientist who wants to test chemicals can build a chem dispenser with a little RnD work. If we really want to make chemistry medsci couldn't we just give chemists standard sci access and let them use their legs and the hallways? God forbid the squishy chemist has to walk out in the dark grey halls with the peasantry. They absolutely NEED a safety tunnel straight to the testing lab so they can avoid gazing upon the assistant filth.

[Saegrimr]

Latest proposed change, be sure to leave helpful and constructive criticism on how goddamn awful it would be to pull monkeys across that full length of space wasted in xenobiology.

All because goofchem.

[lumipharon]

Hey man, I just posted that to say 'there's space to fit xenobio if you move it'. Also I posted something mildly less retarded after that, but I'm sure someone that knows what they're doing could design something nicer with the space.
I'm no mapper.

[Cheimon]

Not a fan of that xenobiology layout, 3 cells facing 3 cells allows you to see what the slimes are up to much more easily. Plus 3v3 means you don't have to drag things as far, which is good because xenobiology is almost entirely about that.

Why can't you just give chemists science and testing lab access? They don't even need dispensers there.

EDIT: my comments apply to the one just before Lumi's.

[Allohsnackbar]

My EYES ARE BLEEDING
WHAT am I looking at here?
I'll tell you: Denial, and goofball acting like paprika and trying to punish us for shooting down his chemistry to sci goon idea.
Also, thanks lumi, for unfucking it a bit.
Constructive criticism:
This is not an appropriate or needed change. Your screwing over xenobiology to add something to Science that we already have elsewhere.

[lumipharon]

Like I said, I would rather nothing change at all, but I would prefer a layout change as opposed to duplicating chem into sci.

[OliveOil]

Why would you remove a chemist's ability to do something other than synthflesh patches and charcoal pills for 1h?
If scientists want a chem dispenser they can simply make it, it doesn't take long.

[MisterPerson]

Why would you remove a chemist's ability to do something other than synthflesh patches and charcoal pills for 1h?
If scientists want a chem dispenser they can simply make it, it doesn't take long.

There's more net fun from a scientist spending 30 minutes mixing chemicals than 10 minutes doing R&D, 5 minutes building the machine, ad 15 minutes mixing chemicals. Per round. So with just 6 rounds that's 1.5 hours of additional fun. Of course it's not really a fair comparison because someone else might do R&D instead, but that's not the point.

That's also under the assumption that sciency chemical mixing is going to be a) interesting in and of itself and b) more interesting than R&D and construction. The former isn't guaranteed by any stretch and the latter is not a safe assumption for the construction, but I highly doubt you'd find anyone defending R&D. It's all up to player preference at the end of the day but I think most people would find doing something more interesting than preparing to do it.

[Saegrimr]

Yeah fuck having to do your job before going and playing with the fun boomy booms.

[srifenbyxp]

-Because my post got deleted by a certain someone-
Leave Chemistry as it is or If you absolutely have to change it leave chemistry on top. Are you really going to force science or anyone else in the matter to go into medbay and then bug the chemist. They can be made but it's too much of a inconvenience when you could just walk up to the desk, ask for something and that's it.

[Fleckers]

Sorry to bump this older thread, but when will we see these changes?

Also to not beak the rules I enjoy option two because of the public access, and i also feel the monkey pen is the perfect size, because those bastards can escape easily in these big pens. Makes it easier as it just kinda feeds them out to you

[Jordie0608]

I don't believe Goof plans on this anymore.