Krusvik - Jackrip - Another bad apple

[jackrip]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Sybil Round 156540
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Jackrip / Korol Konets
Admin: Krusvik
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 156540
Detailed summary:

logs here https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/156540

Killed him as a changeling and he spent the entire round fucking me over. Round ID 156540

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[2021-02-17 06:30:57.023] ADMIN: 06:30:57.023] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes. 
[2021-02-17 06:31:30.404] ADMIN: 06:31:30.404] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes. 
[2021-02-17 06:31:48.365] ADMIN: 06:31:48.365] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes. 
[2021-02-17 06:31:59.347] ADMIN: 06:31:59.347] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes. 
[2021-02-17 06:32:15.894] ADMIN: 06:32:15.894] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fake bwoink. 
[2021-02-17 06:32:47.944] ADMIN: 06:32:47.944] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fatten up. 
[2021-02-17 06:33:00.765] ADMIN: 06:33:00.765] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fatten up. 
[2021-02-17 06:33:09.088] ADMIN: 06:33:09.088] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fatten up. 
[2021-02-17 06:35:48.573] ADMIN: 06:35:48.573] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes.
[2021-02-17 06:36:02.508] ADMIN: 06:36:02.508] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fake bwoink.
[2021-02-17 06:36:31.839] ADMIN: 06:36:31.839] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Bad Luck. 
[2021-02-17 06:42:31.930] ADMIN: 06:42:31.930] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Bad Luck. 
[2021-02-17 06:43:20.365] ADMIN: 06:43:20.365] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Knot Shoes. 
[2021-02-17 06:43:48.273] ADMIN: 06:43:48.273] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Bad Luck. 
[2021-02-17 06:44:19.264] ADMIN: 06:44:19.264] ADMIN: Krusvik/(Jackie Black) punished Jackrip/(Korol Konets) with Fatten up.

I left sybil and went back to bagil and Krusvik was there. He started to bully some other poor antagonist so I brought it up (Round 156542)

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07:31:50	ADMIN	Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) punished VanDarkholme69/(Brennen Snow) with Knot Shoes.

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07:32:03	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "krus"	(79, 102, 2)	Medbay Treatment Center
07:32:06	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "stop fucking with the traitors"	(79, 102, 2)	Medbay Treatment Center
07:32:14	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "thats how you get an admin complaint kek"	(79, 102, 2)	Medbay Treatment Center

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07:32:34	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "I've never had one of those before"	(97, 105, 2)	Medbay Central
07:33:50	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "You have a very strict definition of ruining. "	(89, 133, 2)	Central Primary Hallway
07:33:57	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "He seems to be fine."	(89, 133, 2)	Central Primary Hallway

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07:34:04	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "you said the same thing about me last shift"	(97, 114, 2)	Central Primary Hallway
07:34:17	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "i was fat, shoes tied, head broken, brain injuries where i got stunned if i looked at mimes"	(84, 102, 2)	Medbay Treatment Center
07:34:22	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "thats ruined."	(86, 100, 2)	Medbay Treatment Center

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07:34:48	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "The mime thing was pretty funny. But regardless, you still killed everyone. "	(96, 132, 2)	Head of Personnel's Office

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07:35:58	SAY	MagnumDink/(Peanut Arbuckle) (DEAD) "If someone is being a fag I'm fine with their antag round being ruined"	(99, 147, 2)	AI Upload Access

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07:36:14	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "cringe"	(99, 147, 2)	AI Upload Access

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07:36:21	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "Muh antag round"	(99, 147, 2)	AI Upload Access

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07:36:30	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "some people get antag like once a month"	(99, 145, 2)	Central Primary Hallway

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07:36:48	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "I'm well aware. I get the tickets all the time"	(99, 145, 2)	Central Primary Hallway
07:37:09	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "People don't get antag and ask me for antag multiple times a day, and their excuse is alwways I HAVNT BEEN ANTAG IN MONTHS"	(99, 149, 2)	AI Upload Chamber

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07:37:09	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "so when you say muh antag round after debilitating a man and taking 15 minutes out of his antag time"	(99, 149, 2)	AI Upload Chamber
07:37:22	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "you are indeed the asshole in the situation"	(99, 152, 2)	AI Upload Chamber
07:39:53	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "if someone is an antag"	(106, 171, 2)	Armory
07:39:57	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "and they are murderboning"	(106, 171, 2)	Armory
07:40:04	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "don't intervene until there are more dead than alive"	(106, 171, 2)	Armory
07:40:06	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "and if you do intervene"	(106, 171, 2)	Armory
07:40:15	SAY	Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "make ghost roles / interns etc, get people back into the game"	(106, 172, 2)	Armory

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07:40:30	ADMIN	DSAY: Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) "I don't think a single person watching you had any doubts you would kill everyone."	(106, 171, 2)	Armory

[Armhulen]

Use the format pleeeease

[jackrip]

Use the format pleeeease

fixed to use the format

[Krusvik]

So there's a few things going on here, but the way I see it, the crux is going to be: "Was Krusvik allowed to smite Jackrip for murderboning after Krusvik was involved in the round?"

I believe I was, and I'll explain why.

Jackrip is well known for murderboning, valid hunting, and power gaming. I especially see them during my timeslot where I am often one of only two or three admins, the EST mornings. During this time, regardless of whether or not I'm playing or adminning, I will see Jackrip at the core of the conflict. If they're an antag, then a lot of people are dying/dead. If not, then they are usually one of the biggest threats to the antagonists. It was to absolutely no one's surprise when Jackrip killed virtually everyone during the round in question following the tradition of another killing spree, while only talking to complain about something or to vent their minor irritation in deadchat between revivals as a changeling. This was at both the station and the evac shuttle.

I've watched this happen a dozen times. There was no doubt in my mind that despite my intervention, which I did to level the field with the unsuspecting crew, that Jackrip would kill all but at least one person on the shuttle. The smites, which were: knotted shoes a handful of times which humorously lead to brain damage, fatten to slow them down as they were effectively killing the station, and temporary bad luck for two instances before being made permanent as he continued to kill, and it did little to prevent them from killing all but two passengers on the shuttle. The two survivors were miners that blocked the airlock with the lava staff, so when Jackrip used a brick of X4 to open the airlock, they accidentally destroyed the wrong walls/floor. Between the lava and space floors, Jackrip was unable to enter the bridge. This had nothing to do with the smites mentioned previously.

Based on this so far, was I allowed to smite Jackrip for the benefit of the round?

Well, yes. It was discussed here in this policy thread https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 8&start=50

The issue is I was involved in the round, and in my defense, my involvement had zero influence on my decision to diminish Jackrip's capabilities. I was the only admin online, and I was going to be invariably killed by Jackrip. I'm perfectly fine with being killed because it means I get to both play in the round and help people as an admin. I happened to be the first person Jackrip killed, so I was able to watch them from the start of the round spring from person to person. As deadchat grew, the smites were more frequent.

You were just killing people.

Most people had seen this before and we knew where it was going, especially on a lowpop round. Some people just wanted it to end. It was in the interest of net utility to either speed this along or make it more entertaining for those who are now dead and orbiting you.

Now, some things you pulled from the logs:

07:36:30 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "some people get antag like once a month"

That's clearly not you. I'm well aware this happens, and overwhelmingly, I try to avoid acting in bad faith.

07:31:50 ADMIN Krusvik/(Roberto Mathews) punished VanDarkholme69/(Brennen Snow) with Knot Shoes.

This person was also murderboning, and I tripped him in a room full of people he and his partner killed. There was no active threat that could take advantage of it, and he called it a gamer moment. He thought it was funny, and I thought so too. I didn't approve of this person killing everyone either, but I am not familiar with this ckey. So, at most, I would call this cheeky.

07:37:09 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "so when you say muh antag round after debilitating a man and taking 15 minutes out of his antag time" (99, 149, 2) AI Upload Chamber
07:37:22 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "you are indeed the asshole in the situation" (99, 152, 2) AI Upload Chamber
07:39:53 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "if someone is an antag" (106, 171, 2) Armory
07:39:57 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "and they are murderboning" (106, 171, 2) Armory
07:40:04 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "don't intervene until there are more dead than alive" (106, 171, 2) Armory
07:40:06 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "and if you do intervene" (106, 171, 2) Armory
07:40:15 SAY Jackrip/(Korol Konets) (DEAD) "make ghost roles / interns etc, get people back into the game" (106, 172, 2) Armory

By and large, this is exactly what I do. I have done this with you and watched you kill the entire Deathsquad. You're recommending a relatively safe bet from your own perspective. My question to you is why do you pretend to care? You engage in this behavior while proactively giving solutions on how to deal with this behavior. While you killed the captain you were telling him he's an idiot for recalling when you killed everyone. If you can think that introspectively, then why are you doing this at all?

In addition, you are very adamant about antag time, and I often see you rolling for antag. You killed another traitor in the round in question without hesitation, even as he told you he was a traitor too. I don't think this has any particular bearing on the decision at hand, but I don't think you're defending yourself sincerely.

MagnumDink/(Peanut Arbuckle) (DEAD) "If someone is being a fag I'm fine with their antag round being ruined"

I don't even know why you included this, lol.

Ultimately, I do not believe I am disqualified from doing what I would normally do in this situation because you killed me. It's not a grudge, and I have zero ill-will towards you. I only disagree with your consistent actions.

[pugie]

To provide better clarification on the brain damage part of this, it isn't the knotted shoes that gave him brain damage per se, the bad luck smite that krusvik used has an effect that results in being knocked down causing massive (199) brain damage. Should jackrip have been hit once in the head beforehand and suffered minor brain damage I'm sure this would have resulted in his immediate death.

[Thunder11]

To further clarify Pugie's clarification, the bad luck smite, among its other effects, gives you a 50% chance to fall and hit your head when slipping or any reason. This does a flat 75 brute damage to the head, and 100 brain damage. The bad luck can be made either permanent or temporary, and if it is temporary you are no longer unlucky after having a bad luck induced accident. That particular smite was used on three occasioned, so assuming they were temporary, if two of those had caused Korol to hit his head that alone would have caused enough brain damage to instantly kill him. One such slip would cause sufficient brain damage to gain brain traumas. This behaviour is in addition to the chance that the bad luck can trigger a vending machine crush, door crush, or being pushed over an open space and falling.

[jackrip]

Do I need to respond to this thread to get a resolution? I feel like krus's whole argument was "korol bad and it was lowpop"

But it wasn't lowpop (27 people) and griefing a player with admin tools cannot be justified with "because it's korol", ESECIALLY since I killed you earlier in the round.

You made every vending machine I walked by slam on me, breaking every bone in my body. You made me trip every time I went through an airlock and then it would close on me and give me brain damage. You made me extremely slow and you gave me a trait that stunned me for 15+ seconds at a time. You got me killed twice at least.

I don't know you krus, I don't know if I fucked with you in th past but god damn this was super overkill. All I wanted out of this thread was for you to not do it again, but now you're doubling down and saying that your behavior was totally acceptable, which would create a precedent and allow any admin to just completely fuck over my round at any time.

[Krusvik]

I've had some time to really reflect on this.

I was wrong, and I'm sorry.

I have a lot of experience with writing and roleplay, and that intercepted how I should have acted as an admin. From my perspective, I justified my intervention, but in reality, preferential treatment allowing the circumvention of rules is not something I want to try and set a precedent on, and as I spend more time reflecting on this, I no longer believe I was even justified in the way I previously thought. I should still have not done anything after my involvement in the round. It doesn't matter how I felt because it's not a rule or standard we can all follow, and once more, there were several ways that I could have approached the situation more deserving of you and myself, and all of them were better.

My response to you was overkill. I acted immaturely and irrationally. I should have messaged you and let you know why I disagreed with your actions rather than jumping to punishment. You were right to make this complaint, and I will be evaluating my behavior more attentively in the future. I'm genuinely disappointed in myself for taking this long to realize that.

I have not heard from the headmins about this yet, but I accept whatever disciplinary actions they decide are appropriate.

[jackrip]

That's a great reply. I didn't make this thread so you would get punished, I just don't want this becoming a thing that keeps happening to me or others

Obviously I can't control what headmins do but I'm happy with the response and am not looking for anything else out of this thread

[Domitius]

We are happy to see Krusvik has updated their stance and that Jackrip is satisfied with their response.

Admins must never use their tools to mess with a round that they've been playing in, doubly so against those who may have killed you. Admins should properly remove themselves from the round emotionally should they chose to re-admin after dying.

Krusvik will be demoted to Admin Candidate with Coconutwarrior97 acting as their trainer to properly address their breach of this conduct.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Uphold.
Domitius: Uphold.
Naloac: Uphold.