[Tedward1337] Pow Ergam - security harassment

[UtterNewbie]

Byond account and character name: UtterNewbie, Pow Ergam
Admin: Tedward1337
Time incident occured: Sybil, double agent round minutes before this post
Detailed summary:

I'm a security officer, I gear up and head out to patrol. As I pass HoPs office I see someone holding a C4 and people saying some guy Jeb was a syndicate. I react as fast as I can and get both the guy holding the C4 and Jeb cuffed. I ask a present engineer to help me drag them to brig where I try to solve who is responsible for the C4. After I put each to their cell and start searching them, I find nothing on either of them so I ask a borg to bring me detectives scanner, since at the time we had no detective. Scan results on the C4 again did not provide any evidence pointing to either party being responsible for the C4.

Around this time I start receiving admin pms from Tedward1337, which will continue for the REMAINDER OF THE ROUND. At first he wants to know why one of the 2 guys is brigged. I answer that one of them is suspect of being a syndicate because of the C4. He's not satisfied and keeps bombarding me with questions constantly for everything I do afterwards. As I try to continue playing while answering his PMs at the same time, something explodes as I'm in the process of stripping gear from one of the prisoners. I assume the explosion came from outside of brig. Note at this point I was so frustrated by Tedward1337 CONSTANT pms and about one of the 2 guys being brigged that I may have not paid as much attention to what was going on as I could have.

After the explosion one prisoner is knocked out by it, I taze him so he doesn't try to escape if he suddenly gets up and cuff him. After I drag both of them to interrogation room as brig cells were exploded. In there I am still dealing with admin PMs from Tedward1337 and all the while being deaf and saying in game that I'm deaf so they are patient with me, since a lawyer went in and tried talking about who knows what. While I'm trying to keep up with Tedward1337 PMs one prisoner manages to uncuff himself and spawn in a syndicate bomb with a PDA, he throws it and kills the other suspect while killing himself too.

Tedward1337 keeps harassing me over the situation for the rest of the round blaming me for not metagaming PDAs being uplinks, not being omniscient and seeing one of the prisoners spawning in a C4 during me being in other cell WHILE TALKING TO Tedward1337 IN ADMIN PMS.

I think what Tedward1337 did was horrible, he caused me to waste time talking to him over an IC arrest for a C4 to the point it took me literally 10 minutes to do something simple as process 2 prisoners. His PMs didn't stop at any moment and I had to deal with him and 3 explosions going off in my vicinity, all the while wrestling an IC situation about who of the 2 present is the syndicate. In the end screen BOTH of the suspects were syndicates, but by this point I already ghosted because I couldn't deal with Tedward1337 constantly harassing me over this incident for the entire round.

I can't even recall all the bullshit he interrogated me about, but it was round long. I would very much like someone to post the logs from the conversation because the things he said and the way he acted are not how an admin should handle anything. At the end he WARNED me that I should do my job as a sec officer. I don't even have words for that.

[TheBibleMelts]

Were either of the brigged people in perma? If not, then Tedward shouldn't have been down your asshole and distracting you unless things escalated further.

[QuartzCrystal]

I was Jeb, and you goof'd dude.

I was thrown onto a table and repeatedly knocked down by JR Dobbs, I yelled for help for help to you and then JR tried to put C4 on me on the HoP's desk. This doesn't work and you appropriately stun JR and he drops the C4. As you start to drag JR away he yells out that I'm a double agent and you then stun me (I'm still on the HoP desk) and you get the engineer to drag me to the brig as well. I continuously ask "Hey what's my crime? I was the one attacked!" etc, you never actually respond to me.

I had originally asked someone to look into the matter as I thought it was the clown-HoP who had yelled out that I was a DA (thus being super metagamey) but I was mistaken, Ted then watched the entire thing go down as you arrested me because the dude who was attacking me and putting C4 on me was calling me a DA. You took off my back pack and searched it (I'm assuming you did the same with JR) and didn't bother to remove my PDA (or check it). I then stayed cuffed and buckled in my cell while the lawyer agreed with me that you were being a pretty crappy sec officer. Yes, I know tedward was messaging you but you were still able to handle searching me and buckling me in my cell (and setting my timer twice to ensure it stayed longer than 5 minutes).

After a while I resisted out of my buckle, the moment I did this I noticed that JR in the cell beside me had put C4 on the wall between us. You were outside the cell and numerous people yelled about the C4, I yelled something along the lines of "YOU DIDN'T EVEN SEARCH HIM?!" (as I was trying to still insist on my innocence). You then stunned both me and JR and buckled us in the interrogation room with the lawyer. As we sat there and you argued with tedward JR managed to both unbuckle himself and uncuff himself, and then use his PDA to order a minibomb which gibbed me, killed him and also killed the lawyer. You then kept arguing with tedward and essentially acted like a huge asshole and blamed him for everything.


Like, dude. You arrested two people and never even bothered to check PDAs (you played dumb on whether you're allowed to check PDAs when arresting someone on suspicion of being a syndicate) and had the brig bombed not once, but twice right in front of you. Yeah getting admin messages is distracting but holy crap did you goof hard. I was blown away while I was both arrested and after I was dead with the bullshit you were giving to tedward. No one else had seen what happened (people were AFK) so I insisted on not getting involved as I was technically involved and it got to the point where myself and others just had to tell tedward to give you the ultimatum (a warning to do your job next time) and stop messaging you because you were belligerent. Like, at the most basic level you arrested two dudes where C4 was involved, and you let us both keep our PDAs, and because of that the brig got bombed twice and three people (one totally innocent) died.

[Takato26]

My only beef with the guy is his name. Also how we handled the not searching and then being cuff buckled with a PDA kinda irks me.

[UtterNewbie]

Were either of the brigged people in perma? If not, then Tedward shouldn't have been down your asshole and distracting you unless things escalated further.

None of them were in perma, I was trying to determine which one of them was the syndicate but the admin made it literally impossible to focus or do my job.

QuartzCrystal, I did not see anything at the HoPs besides that "Jeb is syndicate" or some such and one other guy holding a C4. Hence I took both of you in. But then I guess your friend tedward came in to the rescue and started bombarding me with admin PMs, thank him for dying. He prevented me from playing normally.

[QuartzCrystal]

Were either of the brigged people in perma? If not, then Tedward shouldn't have been down your asshole and distracting you unless things escalated further.

None of them were in perma, I was trying to determine which one of them was the syndicate but the admin made it literally impossible to focus or do my job.

QuartzCrystal, I did not see anything at the HoPs besides that "Jeb is syndicate" or some such and one other guy holding a C4. Hence I took both of you in. But then I guess your friend tedward came in to the rescue and started bombarding me with admin PMs, thank him for dying. He prevented me from playing normally.

Dude. You actually played dumb as to whether you're allowed to remove people's PDAs when arrested and called it powergaming.

[tedward1337]

As requested. Take a look http://pastebin.com/wWvmQrET

[UtterNewbie]

Dude. You actually played dumb as to whether you're allowed to remove people's PDAs when arrested and called it powergaming.

I did not, I removed Jebs PDA and put it into a locker along with potential items to break out with, afterwards bomb exploded so I didn't get to strip the other prisoner. In fact had I not been spammed by the admin I would have paid more attention to what's going on and would have done things a lot faster. You realize you can't physically move and type a response at same time in this game right?

[QuartzCrystal]

Dude. You actually played dumb as to whether you're allowed to remove people's PDAs when arrested and called it powergaming.

I did not, I removed Jebs PDA and put it into a locker along with potential items to break out with, afterwards bomb exploded so I didn't get to strip the other prisoner. In fact had I not been spammed by the admin I would have paid more attention to what's going on and would have done things a lot faster. You realize you can't physically move and type a response at same time in this game right?

You did not remove my PDA at any point. You had buckle and cuffed both of us and left us long enough for JR to unbuckle, uncuff and order bombs, twice.

EDIT: Sorry, you said knowing PDAs are uplinks is metagaming, which is nuts to hear from a player as experienced as you.
[17:09:28]ADMIN: PM: UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): I'm supposed to metagame pdas being uplinks?

[UtterNewbie]

You did not remove my PDA at any point. You had buckle and cuffed both of us and left us long enough for JR to unbuckle, uncuff and order bombs, twice.

EDIT: Sorry, you said knowing PDAs are uplinks is metagaming, which is nuts to hear from a player as experienced as you.
[17:09:28]ADMIN: PM: UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): I'm supposed to metagame pdas being uplinks?

Jebs PDA was in the locker, as confirmed even by ted in admin PMs in next round. I didn't get to remove the other suspects PDA. Check logs yourself for me stripping his PDA. Note that the order of events may have been different as dealing with 2 lawyers, 2 syndicate suspects and 1 admin all the while bombs go off in your vicinity is quite demanding.

I still don't understand what of this situation warranted a round long interrogation that ruined any chance of a normal round I had and on top of it all a warning for not doing my job as security.

[leibniz]

There was no warning added to the notes from what I see.
I do not know if they intend to do it later or not.

[UtterNewbie]

"[17:25:19]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman)->UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam): This is your only warning on this, do your job next time."

Hilariously both of the suspects turned out to be syndicates.

[QuartzCrystal]

"[17:25:19]ADMIN: PM: Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman)->UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam): This is your only warning on this, do your job next time."

Hilariously both of the suspects turned out to be syndicates.

Last I'll post, but I think Ted was referencing the fact that you allowed a prisoner to bomb the brig twice.

[UtterNewbie]

Last I'll post, but I think Ted was referencing the fact that you allowed a prisoner to bomb the brig twice.

That's what happens when someone spams me with bwoinks as I try to wrestle several things at the same time.

[Aurx]

Looking over the provided logs, Tedward1337 came off as very hostile and accusatory for no apparent reason in the exchange of messages. Additionally, demanding answers from a player DURING a tense situation is just horribly shitty to do. I'd sure as hell not be able to effectively do anything while getting hassled like that.

[Timbrewolf]

If I could weigh in on this as an admin that wasn't involved at all:

Let's talk about some facts-

Our player characters have knowledge of all the game concepts. When you see someone standing in the hall holding a brick of C4, you know immediately that guy's holding an illegal item only a specific type of antagonist can have. Just like you know someone jamming a proboscis into someone is a changeling. You've got him red-handed

But when that guy holding C4 points to someone else and says "He's a Double Agent!" is when things get murky. It's quite possible. Double Agents are a thing, and you know that they know eachother's identities. Once upon a time a Changeling you caught and detained might have similarly try to bargain with you telling you the identity of another Changeling in exchange for some kind of freedom or just out of spite (though now that hivemind has been nerfed it's a lot less likely).

This is where we get into a grey area, because there have been times when people have incinerated others on the words of round antags and been right and everything has been okay. And there have been times when people have done the same thing and have been wrong and been banned. And that's REALLY no good because we don't want to create some kind of lottery where you can run up to someone just standing in the hall and beat them to death FNR...but be okay because it turned out they were an antagonist.

If we rewind this whole happening to before the back-and-forth in adminpm's, back to when Pow Ergam was standing there deciding who to arrest, there's a question we don't really have a concrete answer to that we need to figure out before we can judge whether they handled the situation correctly and whether the admins were right in pursuing it to the degree they did:

Is it metagaming for security to listen to antags testifying against other potential antags?

Once we answer that, this all becomes very simple.

If yes, then UtterNewbie was perfectly fine to do what they did and this entire situation becomes a rather gross example of how sometimes admins can persecute Sec to the point of complete and total paralysis. And potentially there should be some kind of reprimand or punishment for that.

If no, then it's UtterNewbie's fault and a secban is warranted, or potentially a permaban for metagaming if it turns out that this is a constant trend.

That's the black and white version of it. The facts. If we could push all the rules aside and speak personally, I think everyone involved comes out of this looking worse for the wear no matter what. I think in terms of having a fun game that is fun for people to come play everyone goof'ed bad.

Even if we did decide it was okay for people to confer with antags UtterNewbie still needs to learn to stop playing on our server like they're recording some kind of arrest record speedrun video.

Even if we did decide it's not okay and that you should get involved OOC when something like this happens, the language and tone on the part of Tedward is not a voice we typically want to use when talking to players, especially when they're very obviously busy with something pressing IC.

I'm not officially a headmin yet and I'm not saying anything in that capacity. If this argument is still raging next week that might change. But otherwise just as a admin dude I think this is one of those shitty situations that just sometimes happens and everyone is kinda wrong. It would be better if we could remove the personal element from it and just talk about setting a precedent for the future. Just talk about the parts that built this situation and not live inside this argument.

[tedward1337]

First off I would like to apologize for this whole thing, I did fuck up by distracting a player in the midst of a situation that took their full attention, particularly a member of security. I will not make this type of mistake again. I would also like to apologize personally to you, utternewbie, looking back I was an asshole, and I can honestly say that was not my intent. I have learned from this situation and will maintain a more neutral and professional tone when dealing with players, and secondly I would like to agree with An0n when he said

I think everyone involved comes out of this looking worse for the wear no matter what. I think in terms of having a fun game that is fun for people to come play everyone goof'ed bad.

I had goof'd pretty bad, and I will make sure nothing like this happens again. Sorry this affected your game, my only intent was to resolve a difficult situation. Being a trialmin I'm still learning from my mistakes and like I said before I fully intend to learn from this one.

[UtterNewbie]

Is it metagaming for security to listen to antags testifying against other potential antags?

I appreciate your input but at least get the situation straight if you try to write out hypothetical outcomes. From my point of view there was one "antag", the one responsible for the C4 found in hands of a guy at HoP line. That's as far as I managed to get in the case before being bwoinked. At no point did I "listen to an antag" testifying against another.

Even if we did decide it was okay for people to confer with antags UtterNewbie still needs to learn to stop playing on our server like they're recording some kind of arrest record speedrun video.

Again, get the situation straight. What are you even trying to point out here? Use run intent instead of walk when arresting someone? Recite rights on arrest while being unable to move as I type? As a guy holding a C4 to politely put it down?

First off I would like to apologize for this whole thing, I did fuck up by distracting a player in the midst of a situation that took their full attention, particularly a member of security. I will not make this type of mistake again. I would also like to apologize personally to you, utternewbie, looking back I was an asshole, and I can honestly say that was not my intent. I have learned from this situation and will maintain a more neutral and professional tone when dealing with players, and secondly I would like to agree with An0n when he said

I had goof'd pretty bad, and I will make sure nothing like this happens again. Sorry this affected your game, my only intent was to resolve a difficult situation. Being a trialmin I'm still learning from my mistakes and like I said before I fully intend to learn from this one.

As as said in admin pms, I realize you're a trialmin. I only made this so you realize it too, which you did. I won't hold it against you. I just wish someone compiled a guide for "common mistakes" that new admins make. There were many recently from many new admins, and in this case I would even say blame also lays with whoever made you a trialmin and didn't explain the basics.

[QuartzCrystal]

I'd still like to determine whether UtterNewbie left the PDA on JR (which he then used to order bombs and bomb the brig twice) because Ted was distracting him, or if it's because he thought it was metagaming.

[UtterNewbie]

I'd still like to determine whether UtterNewbie left the PDA on JR (which he then used to order bombs and bomb the brig twice) because Ted was distracting him, or if it's because he thought it was metagaming.

In order I remember:
I quick searched all visible items on both: backpack, pockets, box. This in order to quickly eliminate one suspect in case something was found and not waste time of the other guy.

After this turned out without results, I moved on to scan the C4, at this point I was already being bwoinked to hell. At some point during the PMs and after scan turned out nothing useful, I started to locker items one of the prisoners had that could be used to break out so I can remove him from bucklecuff. I was distracted and unable to focus on doing my job so the other prisoner managed to unbuckle and do his thing.

It is not my first time playing sec, in fact I primarily play sec, handling 2 prisoners is easy. It was made unmanageable by the bwoinks.

This is just to humor your inquiry, which in the end has absolutely zero relevance to what this complaint is about. If you believe it has, please explain why it is relevant. Even if we imagine all admin intervention away, and there is only one officer "not doing his job" by forgetting a PDA, is this grounds for anything or merely a straw for you to hold on to?

I understand your position, you were antag and you were on the wrong place at the wrong time so you got arrested and ended up exploding. If you wish to punish me for arresting you please do go ahead and make a ban request on my name for "not doing my job". This topic is not for that.

[QuartzCrystal]

So you forgot the PDA, not that you think it's metagaming, despite saying this to Ted.

Listen, I just thought it was nuts that a prisoner managed to blow up the brig twice by using their PDA to order bombs. Even more nuts that an experienced player like you allowed this to happen, then you said it would be metagaming.

[UtterNewbie]

So you forgot the PDA, not that you think it's metagaming, despite saying this to Ted.

I won't respond to you further if you insist on making things up. The only thing related to metagaming I said throughout this entire thread and admin PM conversation was this:

[17:09:28]ADMIN: PM: UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): I'm supposed to metagame pdas being uplinks?
[17:13:38]ADMIN: PM: UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): there are many types of uplinks, I try not to metagame

Note I will not repeat myself about what I did during the ordeal regarding PDA, reread if you wish so. Futher, if you want me to start stripping every brigged prisoners PDA immediatelly because uplink, then I will start also stripping radios because they can be uplinks.

Listen, I just thought it was nuts that a prisoner managed to blow up the brig twice by using their PDA to order bombs. Even more nuts that an experienced player like you allowed this to happen, then you said it would be metagaming.

I agree it was absolutely nuts. And the perpetrator already apologized, his reputation took a hit and I'm sure he'll try his hardest not to be shit in the future. I consider it resolved.

If you don't then make a ban request for me arresting you. As antag. Being arrested. Ahelping. While being an admin. :^)

[QuartzCrystal]

As An0n3 said, everyone knows what uplinks are. It is standard to remove someone's PDA when they are accused or suspected of being a traitor, THAT is how you goof'd. You either left the PDA on JR because of Ted or because you decided that you won't powergame and you'll decide to leave the PDA on a suspected traitor because apparently that'd be too metagamey for you.

Yes, Ted has apologized, but your reasoning for the two bombings happening is that Ted was distracting you, while at the same time you're claiming that even if Ted wasn't distracting you, you would have left the PDA on the guy still. You can't have both of these reasons.

EDIT: Actually surprised nothing along the lines of this are in the roleplay rules, which seems like an oversight.

[UtterNewbie]

As An0n3 said, everyone knows what uplinks are. It is standard to remove someone's PDA when they are accused or suspected of being a traitor, THAT is how you goof'd. You either left the PDA on JR because of Ted or because you decided that you won't powergame and you'll decide to leave the PDA on a suspected traitor because apparently that'd be too metagamey for you.

Yes, Ted has apologized, but your reasoning for the two bombings happening is that Ted was distracting you, while at the same time you're claiming that even if Ted wasn't distracting you, you would have left the PDA on the guy still. You can't have both of these reasons.

I removed Jebs PDA and put it into a locker along with potential items to break out with, afterwards bomb exploded so I didn't get to strip the other prisoner. In fact had I not been spammed by the admin I would have paid more attention to what's going on and would have done things a lot faster. You realize you can't physically move and type a response at same time in this game right?

And we're done here. You're making things up, not reading what I write and you don't even care enough to check the actual logs you have access to. At no point did I claim I would leave PDAs on them. You ran out of straws to grasp and have nothing to stand on.

I'm beginning to think you should have a complaint on your name too, for adminhelping "being arrested for no reason!!1" while you weren't even permabrigged and were just being investigated. You should know better as an admin, in fact you should be an example for trialmins like ted to look up to.

[QuartzCrystal]

You just quoted yourself as saying you try not to metagame PDAs being uplinks. You had put us both in our cells and removed my backpack and put it in the locker and left me for an additional while with my PDA before coming back in to grab that and a few other things off me. You were outside both our cells as JR had time to unbuckle, uncuff and then place C4 on the wall.

As I said in my post, I adminhelp'd because I falsely thought the clown was metagaming and calling me a double agent, not because of you arresting me. I'm just trying to point out that you claimed part of the reason you didn't take away JR's PDA was metagaming, which has no bearing on whether or not someone was distracting you. I'll just blatantly ask: If Ted had never messaged you, would you have removed both our PDAs upon arresting us?

[UtterNewbie]

you claimed part of the reason you didn't take away JR's PDA was metagaming

This never happened. Reason was I never got to it because a bomb interrupted me. Check the logs of me stripping Jebs PDA. Which is what I quoted myself, and what I said in ahelps. Stop trying to make things up.

I'll just blatantly ask: If Ted had never messaged you, would you have removed both our PDAs upon arresting us?

Yes. Because none of you had any incriminating items on you and both were still suspect of being syndicate. Not to mention how much faster this would have been had I not need to converse for 30minutes(!!) in ahelps about a routine investigation.

[Timbrewolf]

I appreciate your input but at least get the situation straight if you try to write out hypothetical outcomes. From my point of view there was one "antag", the one responsible for the C4 found in hands of a guy at HoP line. That's as far as I managed to get in the case before being bwoinked. At no point did I "listen to an antag" testifying against another.

You said yourself that you arrived at the scene to see a person holding C4, and that was your reason for arresting them. That person, JR, then yelled that Jeb was a "Double Agent", which you obviously recognized as a type of round antag because you then arrested Jeb too.

At no point did I "listen to an antag" testifying against another.

So now you see how you did, when you arrested Jeb because JR (while holding a brick of C4) told you to. In very specific language calling him a "Double Agent" outted himself as an antag while also attempting to out Jeb.

Again, get the situation straight. What are you even trying to point out here? Use run intent instead of walk when arresting someone? Recite rights on arrest while being unable to move as I type? As a guy holding a C4 to politely put it down?

Speaking in general terms of your playstyle, both in this round and beyond, your play2win sensibilities are causing a lot of UNFUN for lots of other players and, having observed you in game, you're on the fast track to crashing into:

Rule 3

This is a roleplaying game. The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. Being an asshole, who ruins other player’s roleplay experience, just to win, is considered a ‘play-to-win’ style of playing. You can and will be banned for this playstyle. Be considerate of other players’ experience.

[Timbrewolf]

You just quoted yourself as saying you try not to metagame PDAs being uplinks. You had put us both in our cells and removed my backpack and put it in the locker and left me for an additional while with my PDA before coming back in to grab that and a few other things off me. You were outside both our cells as JR had time to unbuckle, uncuff and then place C4 on the wall.

As I said in my post, I adminhelp'd because I falsely thought the clown was metagaming and calling me a double agent, not because of you arresting me. I'm just trying to point out that you claimed part of the reason you didn't take away JR's PDA was metagaming, which has no bearing on whether or not someone was distracting you. I'll just blatantly ask: If Ted had never messaged you, would you have removed both our PDAs upon arresting us?

There's no rule that a Security officer has to strip all the goods off a suspect. It's obviously highly recommended in certain situations. When someone was arrested holding a TC-purchasable only item (the C4), this is one of those situations, but again it's not a rule. Sec is expected to look out for the wellbeing of their prisoners somewhat (eg. moving them to another area if the brig becomes open to space) but in this case the situation escalated very quickly, from zero to being exploded. It's not as if Utternewbie was intentionally helping someone plant C4 on you. Through momentary incompetence (probably due to a flood of adminpm's) that person was given the opportunity and took it on their own. Remember:

Rule 2

You are playing a game where you are not fully in control of everything. You will be put into situations beyond your control, which will result in some rounds being ruined for you. Man up and deal with it. However, if you are obviously griefed, be sure to report it to administrators by using the ‘adminhelp’ verb.

Do you really think this was an intentional move where Utternewbie purposely arrested you and put you in a place where another antagonist could then blow you up?

If that's really what you think happened you should be looking for evidence of metacommunication between JR and Pow Ergam because they would have to be chatting outside the game to setup this master plot.

Do you see how ridiculous this sounds?

[QuartzCrystal]

Do you really think this was an intentional move where Utternewbie purposely arrested you and put you in a place where another antagonist could then blow you up?

What? My entire issue is that UtterNewbie claimed it would be metagaming to know someone's PDA could be their uplink. I took this to mean that they wouldn't be doing this no matter the situation. I clearly asked this and they clearly stated they would have taken the PDA if Ted was not distracting them. I took him saying that knowing that PDAs are uplinks is metagaming as something that undermines his claims that Ted was the reason the PDA was used to order two bombs. That's all. I also pointed out that I thought we had somewhere buried in our rules an explanation as to what security members know or don't know about traitors, but we don't.

[Timbrewolf]

Do you really think this was an intentional move where Utternewbie purposely arrested you and put you in a place where another antagonist could then blow you up?

What? My entire issue is that UtterNewbie claimed it would be metagaming to know someone's PDA could be their uplink. I took this to mean that they wouldn't be doing this no matter the situation. I clearly asked this and they clearly stated they would have taken the PDA if Ted was not distracting them. I took him saying that knowing that PDAs are uplinks is metagaming as something that undermines his claims that Ted was the reason the PDA was used to order two bombs. That's all. I also pointed out that I thought we had somewhere buried in our rules an explanation as to what security members know or don't know about traitors, but we don't.

But how is any of that actionable? Are you trying to accuse Utternewbie of not metagaming enough? Purposely playing dumb in this situation to get you exploded?

I'm really having trouble seeing the point of pursuing this whole situation surrounding the PDA any further.

If you're hunting for a rules infraction I think when Utternewbie threw you into a jail cell because a man holding a brick of C4 told them to is one of those rare actual cases of Sec arresting someone FNR.

[QuartzCrystal]

-snip-

I'm not saying it is, my point was is that if UtterNewbie was claiming he doesn't metagame that PDAs are uplinks, then he couldn't then claim that Tedward is to blame for the bombings, as they would have quite possibly happened whether Ted messaged him or not. But he clarified that he would have removed the PDA if not distracted, that's all.

[UtterNewbie]

You said yourself that you arrived at the scene to see a person holding C4, and that was your reason for arresting them. That person, JR, then yelled that Jeb was a "Double Agent", which you obviously recognized as a type of round antag because you then arrested Jeb too.

In the commotion I did not realize it was in fact JR who called out Jeb at being a double agent. The chat log was moving fast and I only read "Jeb is syndicate" or something along those lines. The line was full of people and there was a frigging clown in HoPs seat doing god knows what, I didn't really care at that point to sift through names of people present and just got out with the 2 suspects thanks to the engineer, the chat was moving fast and I had more on my hands than to sift through chat log to see what the name of the guy who called it out was.

[16:58:05]ADMIN: PM: UtterNewbie/(Pow Ergam)->Tedward1337/(Richard Aultman): the guy in purple had a c4, and others claimed jeb was syndicate

So now you see how you did, when you arrested Jeb because JR (while holding a brick of C4) told you to. In very specific language calling him a "Double Agent" outted himself as an antag while also attempting to out Jeb.

I did not even consider the possibility of them being double agents until the point one blew the other out with a bomb. Hindsight is amazing and looking at things from a birds eye instead of someone in the action is completely different. As I said several times now, I did not know both were antags until after round end, I did not know who was the guy responsible for C4 until he threw a bomb at the other guy, and I did not even realize he was called out to be a double agent instead of syndicate. You cannot look at a situation after it happened and claim what the parties involved knew at the time.

Speaking in general terms of your playstyle, both in this round and beyond, your play2win sensibilities are causing a lot of UNFUN for lots of other players and, having observed you in game, you're on the fast track to crashing into Rule 3

Please do provide me with examples where any of such behavior happened in this incident or even in several weeks, and how if you do actually manage to find something does it relate even remotely to this admin complaint.

I find it HILARIOUS that you and quartz are trying to turn a legitimate admin complaint against the player making the complaint.

[Timbrewolf]

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're not absolved of a situation in which you acted poorly because you were the first person to complain about someone else also acting poorly.

So let me get this straight. You're saying:

You didn't know the name of the person you stunned and arrested until you were in the brig.
You didn't recognize this person as the person yelling that Jeb was a double agent.
You don't know what a double agent is.


...despite:


Mousing over JR to have to stun and cuff him, which also outputs text into your log.
The cry that Jeb was a double agent appearing in your log soon after, accompanied by a speech bubble over the person you were cuff dragging.
Upon hearing a claim that someone was a double agent, you knew to immediately arrest both parties.
One of whom had done no visible wrong, was completely unarmed, and made no attempt to resist arrest.

I find it equally HILARIOUS that you are trying to claim that you don't know what these meta-mechanics are and that they didn't guide your actions when your ingame behavior perfectly mimics those of someone who knows exactly what they're doing up until the adminpm barrage begins.

[UtterNewbie]

You didn't know the name of the person you stunned and arrested until you were in the brig.

Wrong. I said I didn't know who said Jeb was syndicate.

You didn't recognize this person as the person yelling that Jeb was a double agent.

Correct. I did in fact misread and only knew that someone called Jeb being a syndicate. Not even double agent. It's almost the first thing I even said in admin PMs.

You don't know what a double agent is.

Wrong. I never claimed or even said that anywhere.

I find it equally HILARIOUS that you are trying to claim that you don't know what these meta-mechanics are and that they didn't guide your actions when your ingame behavior perfectly mimics those of someone who knows exactly what they're doing up until the adminpm barrage begins.

I never claimed not knowing of meta. My behavior ingame was taking in 2 suspects that were involved with a C4, and someone yelling Jeb is syndicate. That's the end of what I seen from my point of view. The fact they were double agents was known to me only after round ended.

The moment I arrived on the scene I only seen Jeb being pacified on a table and JR holding a C4 in a crowd. I assumed that the crowd pacified Jeb and since someone even called him a syndicate (which is what I misread, they actually said double agent according to you), I took both in as both were suspect.

Hell I said this about a dozen times already here and in PMs, are you even reading what I write?