[Scones] Letting a condom be a condom

[Demonbane]

Byond account and character name: Adminbane, Ethan Larson
Admin: Scones
Time incident occured: ~11:30pm, PT
Detailed summary: So it was a slow round, as normal, when a Captain (Bandito De Mantenimiento) arrives. This Captain then proceeded to attack the CMO with the compact defib. I shot him with that sweet neurotox, and he scampered off. I managed to save the CMO (for anyone who doesn't know, being attacked with a defib causes massive oxyloss), and the Captain kept the defib. I went back to my lab to make some synthflesh when the Captain throws in a flashbang. Then he threw in another. Then he threw in a smoke grenade. I had had enough, so I started whipping up some chloral hydrate. He returns fully suited up, and I fire away anyway. Of course, he shoots me and the CMO, and drags the CMO (Lilah) away. I decide I'm going to save her, so I whip up some fluacid to melt his gear, and some thermite to bust into the brig. I didn't intend to kill the Captain, just to melt all his nice things. When i get there the brig was full of metal, and I of course get dunked, and there's some dude named Sewer King, an atmos tech, there. He takes me into a room and yells at me a bit, then they give me some NO2 to breathe. We both end up being perma'd, and that's when I contacted Scones. Scones said the Captain apologized, and then that was that. I tried reasoning with him, but his mind was made up.

It should be obvious to anyone that this Captain deserves at least a temporary jobban, but because he apologized for defibbing the CMO and nearly killing her, I guess everything he did was okay in scone's eyes. A Captain's job is to watch over the station, not try to kill a head, "apologize" (I personally didn't see this happen), then try to fuck with a chemist who's trying to make synthflesh. That is what is called dereliction of duty, and that normally nets a jobban. Sure, I'll take the perma, whatever, but he definitely should've been punished in some way over this, and Scones should be talked to as well. Maybe that kinda shit flies on Sybil, but on Basil being a gigantic condom of a Captain is generally frowned upon, especially in a lowpop round.
Seriously, there was about 5 of us alive on the entire station, and he took 2 out of the game after blatantly baiting them.

[Scones]

The Captain told you and the CMO on two separate occasions that he didn't know the defib gave heart attacks now. It's a new feature that appears in pretty obscure circumstances, so I personally believe them.

He was trying to heal the CMO when you shot him with a Neurotoxin(?)/Morphine syringe. He was literally feeding them Salbutomol (Which you should know, as a Chemist player, heals the massive oxyloss).

He messes with you a bit. You try to shoot him, and he decides to take the CMO instead of you.

You try to Thermite into the Brig and melt the CAPTAIN's gear off with an acid spray bottle. He promptly tazes you and puts you in perma.

In my eyes, it was a misunderstanding that escalated. You performed the final step of the escalation that got you sent to forever jail when you not only tried to thermite in, but then ACID the Captain. Regardless of your intents, fluacid spraybottles are pretty universally taken as intent to kill.

[Demonbane]

Like I said, I heard nothing about no apology. If he did for the defib, why did he proceed to lob grenades into my lab after? Why did he set up the brig to be a death house? Why was Sewer King with him? I think these two were from Sybil and were metaing to fuck with Basil.

[Scones]

Like I said, I heard nothing about no apology. If he did for the defib, why did he proceed to lob grenades into my lab after? Why did he set up the brig to be a death house? Why was Sewer King with him? I think these two were from Sybil and were metaing to fuck with Basil.

It's all a conspiracy against Basil.

I'll happily hear other admin's opinions on this, but I'm sticking with this being valid. It's pretty IC.

Why did you Neurotoxin/Morphine the Captain while he was giving the CMO salb? You were three tiles away from him.

[Vekter]

I should note that using acid in a bottle in any capacity is a bug and is covered under exploit abuse.

[Demonbane]

It's all a conspiracy against Basil.

I'll happily hear other admin's opinions on this, but I'm sticking with this being valid. It's pretty IC.

Why did you Neurotoxin/Morphine the Captain while he was giving the CMO salb? You were three tiles away from him.

Because he tried to kill the CMO? I didn't want a shit Captain in the medbay.

[Demonbane]

I should note that using acid in a bottle in any capacity is a bug and is covered under exploit abuse.

Since when? I've been doing it for years.

[Demonbane]

In the end, instead of randomly throwing grenades into medbay, why didn't the Captain just arrest me? It's obvious he came in intending to be a massive shitter, and while that's fine for something like an assistant, if you're a Captain I believe you're expected to be somewhat decent, and not actively fuck with people's jobs. If he would've just arrested me, I'd have been fine.

[NikNakFlak]

Vekter please stop being retarded and join #adminbus so I can explain the acid thing to you. It was an exploit for a certain time, but was no longer after an acid refactor done by Phil

[Scones]

No reason to have an argument we already had in PMs.

Looking for another admin's opinion on this.

[Lilah]

Apology or not, it's not like he did anything really legitimate. Also, the apology was weak. He apologized to me in the middle of causing trouble for me and acting like a fool. What?
When he nearly killed me, I ASKED for the defib back multiple times, and he refused to communicate or do anything else. From that point, he starts throwing flashbangs around, dragging himself into the disposals, throwing smoke bombs, and causing general mayhem. I warned that I was going to get the defib back somehow. He was proving to be enough of a shitter already, so at that point, I don't think anything he's doing is legit.

Anyway, he disables me, drags me into sec (With me asking what he's doing multiple times and I'm getting no answer from him), brings me into the security office, buckles me to a chair, puts the shutters down and starts working with his bud "Sewer King" who is helping to randomly cause trouble as well ("I'm the second captain here!). From there, they say, "We're going to have a little fun with you", puts a mask and NO2 on the guy next to me, and they get bored when I just decided to ghost. So they pulled everything off of my body and threw me out of sec. From there, the "captain" decides to ghost because he can't mess with anybody anymore.

I don't think its unfair to request of the admins a temp jobban for some guy who was shitting around and causing trouble. I don't think it's "elitism" to want to have a decently peaceful and fairly "orderly" experience while playing on a usually quiet server. If the dude was an assistant, I would have been flustered, but I would have brushed it off. Don't take captain to screw around and be an asshole.I don't think he was justified in his shitting just because we decided to try and put a stop to it.

[Vekter]

Vekter please stop being retarded and join #adminbus so I can explain the acid thing to you. It was an exploit for a certain time, but was no longer after an acid refactor done by Phil

Whoop, my bad.

[TheNightingale]

I have a feeling this would make a good ban request against the Captain. Just putting that one out there.

[TheLongbowMan]

The problem I see with this is when you do thermite into the brig and then spray the captain with acid, it kind of removes your credibility for this being an OOC issue.

[Steelpoint]

Doesn't the Captain have ultimate authority to do whatever he wants on his station?

Sure, he's a dick but he's the sole person on board that has the right to be a dick.

[imblyings]

Dereliction of duty and what the captain did isn't really banworthy. The only factor I am concerned about is the fact that it was lowpop bagil, and my understanding of bagil at those times is that it's vulnerable to grief and it additionally demands a certain level of cooperation and sportsmanship to make the round enjoyable. If any action had to be taken, it'd be barring the guy from only bagil command/sec positions but the most that will happen is probably just a note on the guy in case there's a pattern of him doing this during lowpop bagil.

>steelpoint

He can be to an extent but it doesn't stem from any sort of formal OOC right, more from an IC 'might makes right' principle.

[onleavedontatme]

This belongs in ban requests if anything. I'm not going to punish an admin for not banning someone when we've been pushing for more things to be resolved IC/less bans.

I'm not saying what the captain did was fantastic, and maybe he does deserve a jobban, I just don't think this belongs as an admin complaint.

I'll leave it open in case another headmin has a different opinion though.

The only factor I am concerned about is the fact that it was lowpop bagil, and my understanding of bagil at those times is that it's vulnerable to grief and it additionally demands a certain level of cooperation and sportsmanship to make the round enjoyable. If any action had to be taken, it'd be barring the guy from only bagil command/sec positions but the most that will happen is probably just a note on the guy in case there's a pattern of him doing this during lowpop bagil.

This is a fair point as far as the captain deserving a ban goes. I know people don't want to admit we're basically two separate servers by enforcing rules differently, but different players and different playstyle is the reality of things.

EDIT: I'll look at the logs of the exact conversation they had later as well just to make sure of all this.

[Demonbane]

I guess I'll also file a ban request, I just can't believe Scones would completely handwave this incident.

[peoplearestrange]

I don't think Scones's actions warrant any kind of official complaint, they're opinion was that it was an IC issue, maybe that wasn't the case but I don't see any abuse of power or bad admining as such anywhere along this argument.
What comes across to me is an incredibly bitter response when they didn't get their way in an ahelp. Next time if you want a second opinion in game either ask for it or join #supportbus on IRC and ask another admin for help.

I would also add, as has been for a little while, as soon as you take any OOC issue in to your own hands IC (i.e. seeking revenge, in this case thermite/polyacid) you forfit any ahelp action. If you were truly affected by this you should have stayed where you were, let the admins deal with it and carried on the game as normal.

[Hibbles]

Doesn't the Captain have ultimate authority to do whatever he wants on his station?

Sure, he's a dick but he's the sole person on board that has the right to be a dick.

Intervening just to say that this isn't correct. The Captain still has to follow the laws IC as much as any member of the crew, and OOC is still held to the rules of not being a jerk on purpose.

Because otherwise the Captain could make wearing blue a death penalty offense at the start of the round. And even if you think that would be epic, funny, or lead to more interesting gameplay, it wouldn't the seventeenth time it happens.

[cultist-chan]

The thermite thing and the neurotoxins make it a problem. If a person should be making any type of request it would be the CMO. This sounds like IC escalation.