Bottom post of the previous page:
peoplearestrange wrote:I want to ask a question to Oldman as a 3rd party to all this. What was the reasoning for the "lizard racism", what did you hope to add to the round an peoples enjoyment by inciting and possibly sparking a violent reaction?
What I mean is surely you can see that such IC hateful actions are likely to cause a pretty terrible reaction? You strike me as someone intelligent so I assume you did this to stir the pot of the round, to keep things fresh. If so you realise this is why we have antags, its also why admins are also GM's, to stop rounds becoming stale. So why, being non of these things, did you feel you needed to make others game miserable simply for your own enjoyment? Because that is essentially what it boils down to, your fun at the expense of someone else's.
Though to keep this balance I'd also like to point out to Saegmir that you have become some what of a Tyrant. And in some situations this is needed, but giving people time to either talk themselves out or further into their ban should be used more. I understand it can be frustrating when dealing with people who make your life as an admin difficult, but you can't just slap-dash away problems so quickly without consequences. It makes you seem cold for a start.
You two obviously grind against each other, so I'd suggest any future issues with Oldman probably should be redirected to another admin. Not to avoid punishment, but to avoid personal feelings in any issues.
Enjoyment: Greytiding is fun and there's always something hilarious about a bunch of unarmed idiots getting the better of our heavily armed and armored security force. For security: It's all the fun of hunting down antags without any of the risk, you build camraderie in the security force (as opposed to everyone just wandering off to their department and you don't even remember who your fellow officers are), and you get to live out your authoritarian fantasies while crushing the tide under your jackboot.
It's a flavor of IC entertainment that even the best GM's can't hope to match. It almost always has to be done early because within 10 minutes most of the greyshirts will have suicided or gone braindead.
I also doubt it made anyone's game miserable, there were just as many pro-lizard or anti-racist comments in radio, security rallied around their lizard members, and actual conflict between the crew and security was limited to about 3 assistants and 5 security members. There was no damage to the station, nobody was seriously injured, no high value items were stolen, and the inconvenience to security was roughly on the same level as a janitor who doesn't put up signage (aka most rounds).
I know when I "fight" the tide I usually just walk out of the brig with my hands empty, let them push or slip me a few times, and just keep walking until they get bored. Old greytide would invariably involve smashing open the brig, looting anything that wasn't bolted down, stripping, hurting, or even killing officers... The current version of greytide is so muted and weak that flat out ignoring them is often the best strategy since they can't escalate to violence/major theft/sabotage and are limited to a few actions that barely qualify as harassment or assault. Yet despite the complete and utter lack of serious consequences for security, admins still insist on cracking down out of some automatic reflex. Even in these threads many players and admins continue to act as thought the current version of greytide bears any resemblance to the stuff that existed years ago. In this instance the HOS didn't even want to perma me (he posted in the appeal thread too) and yet Admins feel like this is such a grave offense that intervention is necessary for medium-level crimes. When the admin reaction to a crime is over 100x what the victims felt was appropriate punishment, then maybe, just maybe, the admin intervention was not appropriate.
Like I said before, I don't view this as fun at anyone's expense as long as rules are followed. As security I enjoy tidebusting if I'm not dealing with a greater threat, and as an assistant I was listening to radios to make sure we didn't keep messing with officers if a blob/wizard/traitors/etc. started attacking as well.
