Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

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Kendrickorium
 
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Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Kendrickorium » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:05 am #479138

Post Content:
Byond account and character name: Kendrickorium/Sunshine Day
Admin: Isratosh
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 1245 EST Sybil
ROUND ID HERE: 102515
Detailed summary:

was playing stealth wizard, round was a good 45 minutes in and the shuttle had already been called.
I had been incredibly quiet, helping out the crew, not getting in the way, only killed some shitter that was griefing everyone

then this :

Central Command Update

Due to some political reasons, we have recently been keeping a close eye on the Wizard Federation's movements and operations. As such, we have noticed an increased level of magical anomalies located on your station that seem to be localized around a certain red-haired woman that appears to be working in your security department.

Central Command would like to remind Station Stanford Lab Whiskey that all Wizard Federation agents are hostile to our corporation and need to be removed posthaste.

as the round had been going on for so long and it was low pop, most everyone likely knew exactly who I was since I believe I was the only one with red hair running around in sec gear. I was immediately noticed, went loud and the chaplain found me mid tasing some grey.
so yeah, in short, my playing a stealth wizard felt completely ruined by this guy. the round was literally almost over.

PM to-Admins: wow thats really fucking gay
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: your gimmick is really fucking gay

OOC: Zawo: it became kinda really obvious when admins gave it away

so yeah.



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Isratosh
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Isratosh » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:20 am #479140

You had the entire armory and head of security gear alongside your wizard powers. The AI and its cyborgs were actively helping you and protecting you from the crew. There were only two other members of security and the chaplain to oppose you.
The lame round was not lowpop, and I decided to give you an actual challenge with five minutes left in the hour-long-basically-extended round. You had a large fighting chance, but instead decided to sit in the middle of the hallway and spend your time sending an adminhelp instead of reacting to the changing situation.
This caused you to get dunked.
You were immediately brought to cloning by medical staff and the cyborgs but were too busy writing this complaint to get back into your body (which would have definitely resulted in green-text, if that's what you're worried about).
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Bartholomew Martins

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Kendrickorium » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:25 am #479150

>You had the entire armory and head of security gear alongside your wizard powers.

I had a taser and 2 energy guns. (I had these because LOL ITS A WIZARD ROUND ARM THE CREW) I had only just aquired a bit of the HOS's gear with Knock when you blew me up to the station.

>The AI and its cyborgs were actively helping you and protecting you from the crew.

The AI suspected I was a wizard and I knew of no orders it gave to "protect me" from the crew

>There were only two other members of security and the chaplain to oppose you. The lame round was not lowpop

the entire crew opposes you when they know they can murder the fuck out of you. there were 20 or so people playing, that's pretty lowpop.

>I decided to give you an actual challenge with five minutes left in the hour-long-basically-extended round

I did not ASK you for a challenge
the CHALLENGE was going stealth wizard
ALSO the entire crew and AI at the point you made the announcement was busy dealing with swarmers. perfect for a stealthwiz to complete his objectives.
you basically punished me for NOT murderboning the fucking crew.

from the tone of your reply, it looks like YOU were bored.
I get that rounds are supposed to be fun for players, but you had a multitude of other options you could have used to entertain them, rather than point a giant fucking finger at me and say HEY GO GET HIM.

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Karp
 
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Karp » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:42 am #479153

This isn't going to be actionable dude

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9632&p=254493&hilit=hiding+disposal#p254489

Admins are 100% allowed to act if antags are being boring and aren't doing anything

It sounded like you were boring and the admin did something to stir up the round and make it enjoyable

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Malkraz
 
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Malkraz » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:28 am #479175

Were players actually expressing their boredom with it or was it mostly the admin?
The link Karp gave doesn't really say much about how actionable it is, the only answer that user really got was "take it to complaints/feedback", which is what Kendrickorium did.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Kendrickorium » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:27 pm #479273

Karp wrote:This isn't going to be actionable dude

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9632&p=254493&hilit=hiding+disposal#p254489

Admins are 100% allowed to act if antags are being boring and aren't doing anything

It sounded like you were boring and the admin did something to stir up the round and make it enjoyable


I said above, I COMPLETELY understand that a round needs to be fun for players. The admin could have done many other things to make it interesting, rather than out me to the entire crew with like 5 minutes left in the round.

Malkraz wrote:Were players actually expressing their boredom with it or was it mostly the admin?
The link Karp gave doesn't really say much about how actionable it is, the only answer that user really got was "take it to complaints/feedback", which is what Kendrickorium did.


at the time of centcoms announcement, the shuttle was about 5 minutes away from docking and the crew was battling swarmers

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:04 pm.
Reason: Peanut policy does not cover "my opinion is..."

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:05 pm.
Reason: See above

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Isratosh
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Isratosh » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:46 am #480723

One thing that I had forgotten to mention is that the round type was revealed very early in the game before you ever left the Wizard Den due to you casting a global spell causing brain traumas.

In retrospect, reminding the crew about the wizard's existence without pointing a finger would have been much more tasteful and probably have accomplished a similar effect. To that point I do apologize for rather abruptly ending your otherwise uneventful antagonist round.

Regardless, my stance is that the position of dungeon master permits me to mess with the round in a manner befitting the greater good of the players' (plural) enjoyment. My goal with the announcement was to cause a manhunt or investigation, not to immediately get you killed. Your reaction (or rather, inaction) to the announcement was a surprise to me.

I would appreciate if this could be resolved, however I do understand that this post brings some new information to light that may affect decisions.
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby EagleWiz » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:39 pm #480768

The admins have always been allowed to intervene in the round, especially when the round went on for 45 minutes and had a single antag who spent most of the round not doing anything antagonistic. If an admin messes with peoples antag rolls right after they spawn, or consistently targets the same player that might possibly be actionable, but deciding to remind the crew that wizards are antagonists isn't even remotely out of line. One of the more interesting wizard rounds I've seen was one where centcom was increasingly displeased with the presence of a friendly wizard, and sent in a deathsquad after the crew mutinied by killing the ERT and centcom investigator sent to see what was going on.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:08 pm #480978

friendly wiz are usually solved by sending in more wizards which is less lame of “valid in dorms”

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:26 am #481164

Interfering with the round is fine, interfering with an antag directly by doing a harmful action is not. Successful complaints have been made in the past towards admins who had directly interfered with a player (such as mine viewtopic.php?f=53&t=12648 ), and the admin could have been much less direct in outing a wizard that was otherwise not trying to get outed.

It is not up to the admins to decide if an antag working towards greentext "deserves" it or not, and there are many, many non-direct ways of 'spicing up the round' or even forcing the wizard to be more loud then directly outing him to the crew. Another wizard spawn would have made sense in this instance.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Dax Dupont » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:15 am #481174

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Interfering with the round is fine, interfering with an antag directly by doing a harmful action is not. Successful complaints have been made in the past towards admins who had directly interfered with a player (such as mine viewtopic.php?f=53&t=12648 ), and the admin could have been much less direct in outing a wizard that was otherwise not trying to get outed.

It is not up to the admins to decide if an antag working towards greentext "deserves" it or not, and there are many, many non-direct ways of 'spicing up the round' or even forcing the wizard to be more loud then directly outing him to the crew. Another wizard spawn would have made sense in this instance.


I'd hardly call making an announcement to be a direct harmful action.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:10 am #481780

I would certainly put "making it impossible for the stealth wiz to stealth" on the same category of harm as "extending a mech AIs doomsday timer to a point it is impossible for the AI to maintain it before it dies". Direct interference like this effectively sets a death sentence on the antag.

To also point out it was done for effectively the same reason of "I don't like how you are playing the antag"

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Nervere » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:52 pm #481815

This complaint isn't actionable.
Admins have leeway with how they influence the round as a DM. If the round becomes stale or stagnant, it's within their rights to change or influence how the shift plays out.
Playing as a stealth or friendly wizard is a really boring gimmick for what's meant to be a quick and action-packed round, and we're not going to punish Isratosh for deciding to do something about that.
Normally what's done to friendly or stealth wizards is sending another wizard to kill them - an IC announcement from Central Command announcing your presence on the station is nothing in comparison.

Kendrickorium wrote:PM to-Admins: wow thats really fucking gay
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: your gimmick is really fucking gay

Why did you include this in the OP? Admins are not your punching bags - we expect professionalism but we're definitely not going to punish an admin for snapping back at a rude remark.
We're not going to be upholding this complaint. Isratosh has stated in this thread that he can understand your perspective and will be more mindful in the future, but at the core of this complaint, there is no wrongdoing.
Last edited by Nervere on Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spacing

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby RG4ORDR » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:41 pm #481825

Nervere wrote:This complaint isn't actionable.
Admins have leeway with how they influence the round as a DM. If the round becomes stale or stagnant, it's within their rights to change or influence how the shift plays out.
Playing as a stealth or friendly wizard is a really boring gimmick for what's meant to be a quick and action-packed round, and we're not going to punish Isratosh for deciding to do something about that.
Normally what's done to friendly or stealth wizards is sending another wizard to kill them - an IC announcement from Central Command announcing your presence on the station is nothing in comparison.

Kendrickorium wrote:PM to-Admins: wow thats really fucking gay
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: your gimmick is really fucking gay

Why did you include this in the OP? Admins are not your punching bags - we expect professionalism but we're definitely not going to punish an admin for snapping back at a rude remark.
We're not going to be upholding this complaint. Isratosh has stated in this thread that he can understand your perspective and will be more mindful in the future, but at the core of this complaint, there is no wrongdoing.


Lets consider that antags pretty much have free roam of what they can, do. This guy blended in to the crew, without people caring or noticing. Isn't this want you want to do, pull of your gimmick and have nobody be non the wiser? Who said the antags HAVE to be super disruptive and loud. Even funnier is that he wasn't hiding out in space, locker in maint or some room all barricaded up, he was literally a wizard pretending to be security. Sure the gimmick is boring and not the best but he did it without being caught for nearly an entire round. Isra should've spawned another wizard or another mid-round antag to spice it up, and not out the main antag of the bunch. It'd have the same response if an admin did me like that. What he did was wrong.

If we want to pull straws, does this mean the admin is now allow to state that there are Stealth Ops on the station?
What about them calling out people who are hiveminds. What if I'm a changeling and I'm trying not to get caught doing changeling things, should I be called out by the admins because I'm playing a certain way?

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:50 pm #481826

It's not a binary stealth is bad but when you have Ops loitering for 2 hours you'd push them along too yes.

If a Rev head isn't doing anything you might make other people revs.

As I always say things do not happen in vacuums you can't just go apply things like rules and rulings without looking at full scenario and not just a single aspect of it.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:56 am #481833

Maybe the most retarded ruling I've ever heard.

"Wizards must be loud"

You're taking a watery dump on the creative spirit of the game with opinions like this. What next? Ops must war mode? Traitors must bomb and singulo?

Code: Select all
Playing as a stealth or friendly wizard is a really boring gimmick

Citation needed. Who is the bored party here?
Wizard? Wizard can do what he wants, fuck off.
The crew? They can pussy out any time and call shuttle if they're bored. They know there's a wizard so they have a valid reason.
Ghostchat? >listening to ghost chat. There's three servers, they can hop if they're bored.
That leaves the admins. But why should admins dictate how I have fun? Since when do they decide how I play the game?

Setting the precedent that admins can fuck with and hinder antags that are active and working towards objectives is extremely dangerous and a shitty way to police the game. What's next? Ops doing some oceans 11 shit on station for an hour only for centcomm to announce loudly and in huge letters LOOK OUT CAPTAIN THERES OPS BEHIND YOU because the admins got bored and didn't like their play style? Fuck off.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby wesoda25 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:35 am #481839

Theres a world of difference between wizards and normal antagonists. Wizards are intended to sew chaos of some sort, working towards objectives is up to personal preference. Wizards are NOT supposed to turn the round into secret extended. Wizard rounds, unlike most other traitor rounds, are entirely dependent on the wizard to create any sort of interest in the round whatsoever. If a wizard is unwilling to do this, an admin would be perfectly entitled to actually make the round fun for others involved.

Just because you somehow find enjoyment in your cancer wizard gimmick doesn’t mean others do too, Isratosh was completely in the right for actually making the round fun for other parties involved.

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Re: Isratosh - Kendrickorium (ruined round)

Postby Kendrickorium » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:20 am #481868

Isratosh wrote:One thing that I had forgotten to mention is that the round type was revealed very early in the game before you ever left the Wizard Den due to you casting a global spell causing brain traumas.

In retrospect, reminding the crew about the wizard's existence without pointing a finger would have been much more tasteful and probably have accomplished a similar effect. To that point I do apologize for rather abruptly ending your otherwise uneventful antagonist round.

Regardless, my stance is that the position of dungeon master permits me to mess with the round in a manner befitting the greater good of the players' (plural) enjoyment. My goal with the announcement was to cause a manhunt or investigation, not to immediately get you killed. Your reaction (or rather, inaction) to the announcement was a surprise to me.

I would appreciate if this could be resolved, however I do understand that this post brings some new information to light that may affect decisions.


I understand you are a DM. However, a good DM makes a round fun for ALL players. There was a lot of other things you could have done

Nervere wrote:This complaint isn't actionable.
Admins have leeway with how they influence the round as a DM. If the round becomes stale or stagnant, it's within their rights to change or influence how the shift plays out.
Playing as a stealth or friendly wizard is a really boring gimmick for what's meant to be a quick and action-packed round, and we're not going to punish Isratosh for deciding to do something about that.
Normally what's done to friendly or stealth wizards is sending another wizard to kill them - an IC announcement from Central Command announcing your presence on the station is nothing in comparison.

Kendrickorium wrote:PM to-Admins: wow thats really fucking gay
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: your gimmick is really fucking gay

Why did you include this in the OP? Admins are not your punching bags - we expect professionalism but we're definitely not going to punish an admin for snapping back at a rude remark.
We're not going to be upholding this complaint. Isratosh has stated in this thread that he can understand your perspective and will be more mindful in the future, but at the core of this complaint, there is no wrongdoing.


I included it because it reinforces my point that he might have done this because he was simply bored and unentertained.
i'm also wondering if admins are allowed to play, die- and then admin. I killed one person that round, and if I recall, not soon after, the announcement came. Maybe I'm just paranoid.


a lot of the comments in this thread seem to enforce my reasoning that if an admin wants to make the round exciting, he should do so by other means other than point the finger at the single guy just trying to complete some objectives while fully participating in the round.
the post before this really accurately sums up why I was annoyed at what happened
I'll just say it once more, I feel like I was punished for not trying to murderbone the entire playerbase.


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