Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

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TwiggyJrr
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:43 pm
Byond Username: TwiggyJr
Location: Scotland, UK

Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #656988

Round ID:Round ID: 194865

Occurred 22/11/22 - 23:00


Hey,
I’ve been playing on TG Terry station for a few days now. I’ve noticed it’s a little chaotic and there are a lot of “regulars” that seem to do as they want, which doesn’t always impact negatively but does seem to sometimes.
This is one of them.
I have an issue with a complaint regarding an admin.
I was RPing as a Chaplain, admittedly with a joking bible name as "E-girl bathwater" (First time playing chap, wanted a memey name so that I could hopefully recruit people)
I got a follower and we went to recruit more people, they jokingly wanted to add themselves on as "E-boy" water. We went to recruit new people so went to the hop desk. HoS was the hop (didn’t know) and he randomly pointed at my follower and said “Kill him” After he walked up to the Janie and said “Hey cutie” to possibly jokingly RP a scene to get a new follower. I also asked if they wanted to join the religion of “E-girl bathwater”
Janitor was confused, asked “What?” HoS came back and said the same again, “Kill him.” No reason or explanation. He came out, pushed him around, so I did the same, until he brought Iain out to attack him. I killed Iain, and admittedly attacked the HoS as well, but mainly because he was threatening and attacking my “In Character” follower.
I reported to Iain0 who then tried to turn it on me as I broke the rules.
I get critting sec is wrong, but I wanted to defend my follower in character from randomly being attacked / harassed without any reason or arrest or anything.

My original ahelp was a bit shit cause I quickly reported it while I was slightly miffed at the situation. Tried to explain more in the logs /shrug

Rules that I feel were broken during the exchange:
1. Don't be a dick
________________________________________
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.
** had the HoS randomly KoS’d my Follower infront of Jani and set Iain on us.**

2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means.
________________________________________
I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.
** I made a follower, they were my (IC) friend, I teamed up with them.**

Escalation Policy
________________________________________
As a non-antagonist you may begin conflict with another player with valid reason (refusal of critical services, belligerent attitude, etc) OR if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job. Whomever you engage is entitled to respond to your actions. If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action.
Again, I get critting sec was shit, but so was my follower being randomly set upon, aswell as myself for pushing sec over to stop it.

Non-Antagonists Resisting Arrest
________________________________________
Non-antagonists should not harmfully resist or retaliate against valid arrests, but do not have to simply give up and allow the arrest to happen. They may instead non-harmfully escape or avoid the arresting officer in the spirit of the game.
If an arrest is not obviously valid, it follows standard escalation. Resisting or retaliating against arrests without good reason may break Escalation Policy and be handled administratively. Non-antagonist players may lose any OOC and IC protections if they choose this path and should consider ahelping if they believe they did nothing to warrant being arrested.
Follower wasn’t even arrested, again, just got told to be killed.

Rule 1 Precedents
________________________________________
1. Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.
we were just randomly set upon, no reason



State: OPEN Refresh

Opened at: 00:16:41 (Approx 51 minutes and 0.1 seconds ago)


Log:

22:40:24: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn): Got attacked by HoP for no reason while trying to RP chap, and killed by others for defending myself.

22:42:31: PM From Iain0: what does "trying to RP chap" mean?

22:43:32: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: I was playing chaplain, went to HoP desk to get a follower a new ID, we walked up, follower said "Hey cutie" he then pointed at him and said "Kill him." pushed us over and also set iain on us; I killed iain to defend us and then he attacked me so I defended myself.

22:45:06: PM From Iain0: where does you attacking security come into this?

22:45:39: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: The guy that was at the HoP was the one that attacked us if that was security I may have gotten it mistaken?
22:50:27: PM From Iain0: yeah this all looks confusing, seems you were fighting the detective/hos who might have set the dog on /someone else/ who they had issues with, not sure why the dog ends up attacking you, maybe you were in its way and blocking its path, but then you and the other person tag team the seccie i guess and then you get killed probably for that.
22:50:54: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: The guy was a follower of mine, we were recruiting and he just out of nowhere said "Kill him"
22:51:18: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: It was just random killing for the sake of it, no other reason than that

22:51:28: PM From Iain0: sure, maybe there's some context to that you're not aware of, but in terms of you getting attacked for "defending yourself" you seem to have been the one to crit someone first

22:51:55: PM From Iain0: like if you wanna talk about killing for the sake of it, you dispatched the dog, thus causing no further threat to yourself, and yet still went on and crit someone from security

22:52:15: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Because he threatened to kill my follower?

22:52:34: PM From Iain0: okay, so SECURITY threatened to kill your follower and you decide the best side was the one opposing security? how does that work?

22:53:03: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: And why would siding with security for wanting to randomly attack one of my "in character" followers for no reason?

22:53:32: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Is there really just no RP / Gameplay at all apart from "everyone has access to all mechanics, doesn't matter who / what you are?"

22:53:37: PM From Iain0: okay, are you two metafriends or anything or did you just meet? like if i come up to you IRL and go "hi hello i'd like to be your friend" and 20 minutes later the cops wanna shit on me, you're going to attack the cops because you've known me for 20 minutes?

22:54:22: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: No I don't know the guy. But I'm trying to roleplay as a leader of a religion, why would I let Sec attack them for seemingly zero reason. He said one line "Hello cutie" and got set on.

22:54:28: PM From Iain0: ultimately if security are doing things that are not justified, they have to answer to admins. if they're doing something that IS justified and you kill security over it, you're in trouble because... doesn't make a lot of sense you siding against the only people on the station who are /confirmed/ good guys

22:55:20: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: But.. it wasn't justified other than he just said "Kill him". Even Jani was confused, he came back to the desk and just said "Kill him." and walked out to get him. there /was/ no justification

22:55:39: PM From Iain0: the other person has never been out of your sight and has never done anything that might be questionable? 100%?

22:56:29: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Not saying they haven't, but Why should I believe instantly they done something bad because someone said "Kill him" that doesn't sound good to me. If he said "He's a ling" or "He's a syndie" sure. He didn't. He just said "Kill him." - Why is that permissable?

22:56:56: PM From Iain0: he's security, like the real world police they dont have to justify their actions to every passer by, they're empowered to make these decisions

22:57:12: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Plus, to go meta, it isn't the first time people just attack others because its "Memey" or "funny" first time I ever joined the server i got beat up because I was a felinid

22:57:24: PM From Iain0: you literally had a choice between "cant possibly be bad" and "you dont believe they're bad but they could be" and chose to kill the cant possibly be bad person.

22:57:50: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Because why would I just let them get beat up if they're going to join my religion?

22:57:51: PM From Iain0: and sure, i dont really "mind" and no-one complained but you shot the police. and then got beat up for it. so all seems fine to me
22:58:06: PM From Iain0: you really need to read the rules about escalating against security then

22:58:48: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: 1,#Don't be a dick##We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.##Seems like they broke rule one?

22:59:26: PM From Iain0: alright, i guess we're going to have to do this the long way then

22:59:58: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: 2.#I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.##I had an IC reason to team up with them, they were my follower

23:00:59: PM From Iain0: i genuinely dont understand how you think its okay to side against security without a damn good reason, you literally CANT know the person you're defendings back story however SECURITY can NOT be bad and can not be at fault here - and if thet ARE then you should admin help not randomly attack security because there's a chance your friend is a traitor and did something bad, and if you're killing sec to defend a traitor because you have no idea whats going on (and no reason to know) then you're obviously in trouble here, but you seem to think you can just place a random crewmate ahead of security just because you want to

23:01:01: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: 2. This is a sandbox roleplaying game##The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. ##We got attacked for roleplaying

23:01:18: PM From Iain0: no dude, you attacked security, the police. you can get /executed/ for that

23:01:44: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Man this has been handled amazingly. I can see why the server is a free for all

23:02:14: PM From Iain0: yeah, we have a lot of players who think they can just beat up security so that they can do whatever they like. thus everything's a shit hole because security are supposed to be dealing with antags, not non-antags

23:02:36: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Then, back to original question, the fuck did they attack my follower for?

23:03:01: PM From Iain0: that wasn't your original question, your original question was complaining about how you got beat up by the crew after you openly attacked security in full sight (thus looking like a traitor)

23:03:07: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: You can also see I pushed him ALOT and he kept going.

23:03:58: PM From Iain0: as for why security have issue with your friend, no idea, not looked that far, but i also know i have no idea if they did anything, while you just assume they dont, to the point you incapped sec over it

23:03:59: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: If an arrest is not obviously valid, it follows standard escalation. Resisting or retaliating against arrests without good reason may break Escalation Policy and be handled administratively. Non-antagonist players may lose any OOC and IC protections if they choose this path and should consider ahelping if they believe they did nothing to warrant being arrested.

23:04:37: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: There wasn't even an arrest. Just a "Kill him" as far as I can see Iain, I followed pretty much most of those rules

23:05:27: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.##Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.

23:05:49: PM From Iain0: i've read the rules page many many many times, make points rather than quoting it at me

23:06:50: PM From Iain0: oh i see [2022-11-22 22:38:40] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #32) "you want e-girl femboy water?" [2022-11-22 22:38:28] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #8) (EMOTE) points at Unknown [2022-11-22 22:38:27] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #31) "hey cutie" very cool, real, nice "RP"

23:07:10: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: I am making points.##I gained a follower to my religion, I am going to roleplay that and try and get more. ##The sec randomly decides to command the Jani to kill him, to which we both push him away until he sets iain on us. I understand attacking him back was a bit shit but I wouldn't say unjustified in any reason.##I was roleplaying incharacter, I had an in character reason to defend my follower so I did

23:07:17: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Ah yes, the name of my religion means failrp I see

23:07:20: PM From Iain0: no you didn't

23:07:50: PM From Iain0: you escalated to critting a seccie when neither of you had been crit

23:08:08: PM From Iain0: over some super funny femboy RP

23:08:17: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: They attacked us with a dog and went to baton.##Also, he changed his name to that. Not me.

23:08:36: PM From Iain0: who changed whos name to what? new to me

23:08:48: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Sorry, they wanted to be e-femboy

23:10:28: PM From Iain0: yeah. i think going around offering people "e-girl femboy water" is probably suitably OOC or just pretty garbage RP that might even
be in violation of rule 8 or 11, idk, most of our players do significantly better than this as "RP"

23:10:45: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Well for the whole server I have saw next to no RP

23:11:20: PM From Iain0: well, you're missing out, and maybe approaching people like that isn't the best way either

23:11:49: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: So.. just stand back and let random people get killed. Got it, next time it happens I'll be sure to just watchand let it happen

23:12:26: PM From Iain0: anyway, with regard to the original question about the HOP and another crewmate attacking you, this makes IC sense when you see a rando beat up security so tis all good no-one was dying, the only person even crit was the person you crit, but sure, despite being the most violent person here its everyone elses fault

23:13:02: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: I never complained about the other crewmate. I complained about HoS attacking us.

23:13:21: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: I couldn't even kill someone as a ling, me being the most violent person here is hilarious

23:13:32: PM From Iain0: bottom line is, your "friend" offered security "femboy e-girl water" whatever the hell that is, the dog bit them a few times, and then you murdered the dog and crit the HOS. you achieved the most violence for sure

23:13:52: PM From Iain0: sorry, dog bit you due to path blocking i assume

23:14:18: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Nope, he pointed at me so that Iain would go for me, after all I did was push him

23:15:16: PM From Iain0: after you shove stun them yes, initially it's all about your weird friend

23:16:18: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Again, I'm just to let sec beat up the follower I had for no reason? No justification.. like the rule that is on the page?

23:18:17: PM From Iain0: /could/ be super dubious for you, thats my advice here, because you literally cant guarantee that player is good unless you're metacomming, so actually siding against security, if they turned out to be a traitor and then took advantage of you disabling security, would be bad for you. not really sure why i'm spending 30 minutes trying to get you to see the issue here, ultimately you can walk head long into it next time and you can deal with that when/if it happens. with this whole situation its just pretty IC in my opinion, both their actions and yours, but you're the one complaing about getting crit, after critting someone else

23:18:40: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: " Whomever you engage is entitled to respond to your actions. If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action."##I responded - they attacked my follower and myself for no reason.##Again, I get critting sec was shit, but I can swear all these rules seem to have been broken here.

23:19:19: PM From Iain0: doesn't really apply to sec, also i'd argue that your friends actions are likely intended to just bait a response anyway, or would you like to actually explain to me in detail this "RP" of yours about "e-girl femboy water" exactly?

23:20:12: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: The main reason I'm going on is because I've been playing on this server for the most part of the day (Only populated good connection EU server) and it seems to run ammoc. I don't feel like rules are heavily enforced (percievebly) as it just feels like constant chaos from people that I have checked at the end of the round, aren't antags.

23:20:38: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: We were literally going to ask "Do you want to join the religion of E-girl bathwater" - I had no RP further than that, I would take it as it came

23:22:16: PM From Iain0: well, i'm all too aware of the RL threads around "gamer girl bathwater" and what a stupid meme/joke that became, i guess i'm not too surprised if some people are going to react badly to such an interaction so.... also if thats all you actually got for your RP you can literally replace "femboy e-girl bathwater" with "the religion of blue chocolate", because you got nothing more than an RL meme you lifted apparently

23:22:40: PM From Iain0: your zero plans translate perfectly whatever the object

23:23:51: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Yes, They do, so I picked a random meme that popped to my head for the book in hopes the memeyness of it would entice people in. Because like I said; not many people seem to RP on this server, I doubt "default bible name" or something generic would entice people in. I chose a wrong meme, shoot me.

23:24:35: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: I get critting sec was shit, I don't deny that.##But what I'm confused about is how you can deny that the HoS had broken the rules that I showed? I just feel like that's being blatently ignored.

23:26:11: PM From Iain0: yeah, be careful dragging memes in game, there's warnings against this in the server MOTD when you join i think, mostly thanks to among us. ultimately i feel everything that happened here is suitably IC, someone got a few knocks, and you crit someone over it, you took it to a higher level yourself and yet i'm not really that bothered about that either, you've spent far longer arguing about something than you put into planning your "RP" or being healed by medical

23:26:56: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: Because it was also my first time playing chap. I was reading the wiki so I knew what to do SO i could come up with an RP

23:29:19: PM From Iain0: yeah, though you can go sell people the bathwater as random assistants too, its just an RP gimmick, chaplains can be more about divine interactions and stuff, but it is largely just a RP centered role. i dont really mind your gimmick either but its not exactly some high brow RP with a story line, and from a different perspective kinda funny having the dog try bite your friend to chase off the wierdo. nothing really escalated to serious levels until people start getting crit, which you were the first to do

23:30:06: PM From Iain0: and even then everyone got medical attention and as far as i know went on from this event quite normally so... none of its really that significant

23:30:09: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: He threatened to kill him, and no doubt would have arrested us / permad if we killed iain for attacking us?

23:30:48: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: i'll keep in mind if I ever play sec that I can just attack people and claim I have reason; thanks. You let me know that sec get away with it

23:30:51: PM From Iain0: speculation about possible futures that didn't happen are not something i'm going to rule on, the dog can be stopped at any time or in fact quite easily killed, as you did

23:31:15: Reply PM from-TwiggyJr: You were ruling on it, saying that "What if he was a traitor" I had no idea if he was or wasn't, I was defending a follower

23:31:44: PM From Iain0: classic ahelp closer, good luck with that because no admin will take a historical ticket as precedent setting on a future context, you will be evaluated for your actions and clearly "attack people for no reason" is going to get you banned from sec. your friend clearly started this weird interaction with security. but you do you and good luck!

Closed ticket when I called him out on talking about future speculation, which he used on me to say “you’re sure they weren’t a bad guy”

I will repeat, critting sec was shit, but I also reacted as I believe someone would when their friend/follower gets pointed at, a dog set on them with the only justification of "Kill him."
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Timberpoes
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by Timberpoes » #657003

Statbus has a more nicely formatted ahelp template, I've attached it below:

From Ticket #3 during round 194865 on Terry
Ticket opened at 2022-11-22 22:40:24 by twiggyjr
Log:
22:40:24: Ticket Opened by-twiggyjr: Got attacked by HoP for no reason while trying to RP chap, and killed by others for defending myself.
22:42:31: Reply from-iain0: what does "trying to RP chap" mean?
22:43:32: Reply from-twiggyjr: I was playing chaplain, went to HoP desk to get a follower a new ID, we walked up, follower said "Hey cutie" he then pointed at him and said "Kill him." pushed us over and also set iain on us; I killed iain to defend us and then he attacked me so I defended myself.
22:45:06: Reply from-iain0: where does you attacking security come into this?
22:45:39: Reply from-twiggyjr: The guy that was at the HoP was the one that attacked us if that was security I may have gotten it mistaken?
22:50:27: Reply from-iain0: yeah this all looks confusing, seems you were fighting the detective/hos who might have set the dog on /someone else/ who they had issues with, not sure why the dog ends up attacking you, maybe you were in its way and blocking its path, but then you and the other person tag team the seccie i guess and then you get killed probably for that.
22:50:54: Reply from-twiggyjr: The guy was a follower of mine, we were recruiting and he just out of nowhere said "Kill him"
22:51:18: Reply from-twiggyjr: It was just random killing for the sake of it, no other reason than that
22:51:28: Reply from-iain0: sure, maybe there's some context to that you're not aware of, but in terms of you getting attacked for "defending yourself" you seem to have been the one to crit someone first
22:51:55: Reply from-iain0: like if you wanna talk about killing for the sake of it, you dispatched the dog, thus causing no further threat to yourself, and yet still went on and crit someone from security
22:52:15: Reply from-twiggyjr: Because he threatened to kill my follower?
22:52:34: Reply from-iain0: okay, so SECURITY threatened to kill your follower and you decide the best side was the one opposing security? how does that work?
22:53:03: Reply from-twiggyjr: And why would siding with security for wanting to randomly attack one of my "in character" followers for no reason?
22:53:32: Reply from-twiggyjr: Is there really just no RP / Gameplay at all apart from "everyone has access to all mechanics, doesn't matter who / what you are?"
22:53:37: Reply from-iain0: okay, are you two metafriends or anything or did you just meet? like if i come up to you IRL and go "hi hello i'd like to be your friend" and 20 minutes later the cops wanna shit on me, you're going to attack the cops because you've known me for 20 minutes?
22:54:22: Reply from-twiggyjr: No I don't know the guy. But I'm trying to roleplay as a leader of a religion, why would I let Sec attack them for seemingly zero reason. He said one line "Hello cutie" and got set on.
22:54:28: Reply from-iain0: ultimately if security are doing things that are not justified, they have to answer to admins. if they're doing something that IS justified and you kill security over it, you're in trouble because... doesn't make a lot of sense you siding against the only people on the station who are /confirmed/ good guys
22:55:20: Reply from-twiggyjr: But.. it wasn't justified other than he just said "Kill him". Even Jani was confused, he came back to the desk and just said "Kill him." and walked out to get him. there /was/ no justification
22:55:39: Reply from-iain0: the other person has never been out of your sight and has never done anything that might be questionable? 100%?
22:56:29: Reply from-twiggyjr: Not saying they haven't, but Why should I believe instantly they done something bad because someone said "Kill him" that doesn't sound good to me. If he said "He's a ling" or "He's a syndie" sure. He didn't. He just said "Kill him." - Why is that permissable?
22:56:56: Reply from-iain0: he's security, like the real world police they dont have to justify their actions to every passer by, they're empowered to make these decisions
22:57:12: Reply from-twiggyjr: Plus, to go meta, it isn't the first time people just attack others because its "Memey" or "funny" first time I ever joined the server i got beat up because I was a felinid
22:57:24: Reply from-iain0: you literally had a choice between "cant possibly be bad" and "you dont believe they're bad but they could be" and chose to kill the cant possibly be bad person.
22:57:50: Reply from-twiggyjr: Because why would I just let them get beat up if they're going to join my religion?
22:57:51: Reply from-iain0: and sure, i dont really "mind" and no-one complained but you shot the police. and then got beat up for it. so all seems fine to me
22:58:06: Reply from-iain0: you really need to read the rules about escalating against security then
22:58:48: Reply from-twiggyjr: 1,#Don't be a dick##We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.##Seems like they broke rule one?
22:59:26: Reply from-iain0: alright, i guess we're going to have to do this the long way then
22:59:58: Reply from-twiggyjr: 2.#I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.##I had an IC reason to team up with them, they were my follower
23:00:59: Reply from-iain0: i genuinely dont understand how you think its okay to side against security without a damn good reason, you literally CANT know the person you're defendings back story however SECURITY can NOT be bad and can not be at fault here - and if thet ARE then you should admin help not randomly attack security because there's a chance your friend is a traitor and did something bad, and if you're killing sec to defend a traitor because you have no idea whats going on (and no reason to know) then you're obviously in trouble here, but you seem to think you can just place a random crewmate ahead of security just because you want to
23:01:01: Reply from-twiggyjr: 2. This is a sandbox roleplaying game##The purpose of the game is to have fun roleplaying. ##We got attacked for roleplaying
23:01:18: Reply from-iain0: no dude, you attacked security, the police. you can get /executed/ for that
23:01:44: Reply from-twiggyjr: Man this has been handled amazingly. I can see why the server is a free for all
23:02:14: Reply from-iain0: yeah, we have a lot of players who think they can just beat up security so that they can do whatever they like. thus everything's a shit hole because security are supposed to be dealing with antags, not non-antags
23:02:36: Reply from-twiggyjr: Then, back to original question, the fuck did they attack my follower for?
23:03:01: Reply from-iain0: that wasn't your original question, your original question was complaining about how you got beat up by the crew after you openly attacked security in full sight (thus looking like a traitor)
23:03:07: Reply from-twiggyjr: You can also see I pushed him ALOT and he kept going.
23:03:58: Reply from-iain0: as for why security have issue with your friend, no idea, not looked that far, but i also know i have no idea if they did anything, while you just assume they dont, to the point you incapped sec over it
23:03:59: Reply from-twiggyjr: If an arrest is not obviously valid, it follows standard escalation. Resisting or retaliating against arrests without good reason may break Escalation Policy and be handled administratively. Non-antagonist players may lose any OOC and IC protections if they choose this path and should consider ahelping if they believe they did nothing to warrant being arrested.
23:04:37: Reply from-twiggyjr: There wasn't even an arrest. Just a "Kill him" as far as I can see Iain, I followed pretty much most of those rules
23:05:27: Reply from-twiggyjr: Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 hour ban.##Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.
23:05:49: Reply from-iain0: i've read the rules page many many many times, make points rather than quoting it at me
23:06:50: Reply from-iain0: oh i see [2022-11-22 22:38:40] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #32) "you want e-girl femboy water?" [2022-11-22 22:38:28] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #8) (EMOTE) points at Unknown [2022-11-22 22:38:27] AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (Command Hallway (95,129,2)) (Event #31) "hey cutie" very cool, real, nice "RP"
23:07:10: Reply from-twiggyjr: I am making points.##I gained a follower to my religion, I am going to roleplay that and try and get more. ##The sec randomly decides to command the Jani to kill him, to which we both push him away until he sets iain on us. I understand attacking him back was a bit shit but I wouldn't say unjustified in any reason.##I was roleplaying incharacter, I had an in character reason to defend my follower so I did
23:07:17: Reply from-twiggyjr: Ah yes, the name of my religion means failrp I see
23:07:20: Reply from-iain0: no you didn't
23:07:50: Reply from-iain0: you escalated to critting a seccie when neither of you had been crit
23:08:08: Reply from-iain0: over some super funny femboy RP
23:08:17: Reply from-twiggyjr: They attacked us with a dog and went to baton.##Also, he changed his name to that. Not me.
23:08:36: Reply from-iain0: who changed whos name to what? new to me
23:08:48: Reply from-twiggyjr: Sorry, they wanted to be e-femboy
23:10:28: Reply from-iain0: yeah. i think going around offering people "e-girl femboy water" is probably suitably OOC or just pretty garbage RP that might even be in violation of rule 8 or 11, idk, most of our players do significantly better than this as "RP"
23:10:45: Reply from-twiggyjr: Well for the whole server I have saw next to no RP
23:11:20: Reply from-iain0: well, you're missing out, and maybe approaching people like that isn't the best way either
23:11:49: Reply from-twiggyjr: So.. just stand back and let random people get killed. Got it, next time it happens I'll be sure to just watchand let it happen
23:12:26: Reply from-iain0: anyway, with regard to the original question about the HOP and another crewmate attacking you, this makes IC sense when you see a rando beat up security so tis all good no-one was dying, the only person even crit was the person you crit, but sure, despite being the most violent person here its everyone elses fault
23:13:02: Reply from-twiggyjr: I never complained about the other crewmate. I complained about HoS attacking us.
23:13:21: Reply from-twiggyjr: I couldn't even kill someone as a ling, me being the most violent person here is hilarious
23:13:32: Reply from-iain0: bottom line is, your "friend" offered security "femboy e-girl water" whatever the hell that is, the dog bit them a few times, and then you murdered the dog and crit the HOS. you achieved the most violence for sure
23:13:52: Reply from-iain0: sorry, dog bit you due to path blocking i assume
23:14:18: Reply from-twiggyjr: Nope, he pointed at me so that Iain would go for me, after all I did was push him
23:15:16: Reply from-iain0: after you shove stun them yes, initially it's all about your weird friend
23:16:18: Reply from-twiggyjr: Again, I'm just to let sec beat up the follower I had for no reason? No justification.. like the rule that is on the page?
23:18:17: Reply from-iain0: /could/ be super dubious for you, thats my advice here, because you literally cant guarantee that player is good unless you're metacomming, so actually siding against security, if they turned out to be a traitor and then took advantage of you disabling security, would be bad for you. not really sure why i'm spending 30 minutes trying to get you to see the issue here, ultimately you can walk head long into it next time and you can deal with that when/if it happens. with this whole situation its just pretty IC in my opinion, both their actions and yours, but you're the one complaing about getting crit, after critting someone else
23:18:40: Reply from-twiggyjr: " Whomever you engage is entitled to respond to your actions. If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action."##I responded - they attacked my follower and myself for no reason.##Again, I get critting sec was shit, but I can swear all these rules seem to have been broken here.
23:19:19: Reply from-iain0: doesn't really apply to sec, also i'd argue that your friends actions are likely intended to just bait a response anyway, or would you like to actually explain to me in detail this "RP" of yours about "e-girl femboy water" exactly?
23:20:12: Reply from-twiggyjr: The main reason I'm going on is because I've been playing on this server for the most part of the day (Only populated good connection EU server) and it seems to run ammoc. I don't feel like rules are heavily enforced (percievebly) as it just feels like constant chaos from people that I have checked at the end of the round, aren't antags.
23:20:38: Reply from-twiggyjr: We were literally going to ask "Do you want to join the religion of E-girl bathwater" - I had no RP further than that, I would take it as it came
23:22:16: Reply from-iain0: well, i'm all too aware of the RL threads around "gamer girl bathwater" and what a stupid meme/joke that became, i guess i'm not too surprised if some people are going to react badly to such an interaction so.... also if thats all you actually got for your RP you can literally replace "femboy e-girl bathwater" with "the religion of blue chocolate", because you got nothing more than an RL meme you lifted apparently
23:22:40: Reply from-iain0: your zero plans translate perfectly whatever the object
23:23:51: Reply from-twiggyjr: Yes, They do, so I picked a random meme that popped to my head for the book in hopes the memeyness of it would entice people in. Because like I said; not many people seem to RP on this server, I doubt "default bible name" or something generic would entice people in. I chose a wrong meme, shoot me.
23:24:35: Reply from-twiggyjr: I get critting sec was shit, I don't deny that.##But what I'm confused about is how you can deny that the HoS had broken the rules that I showed? I just feel like that's being blatently ignored.
23:26:11: Reply from-iain0: yeah, be careful dragging memes in game, there's warnings against this in the server MOTD when you join i think, mostly thanks to among us. ultimately i feel everything that happened here is suitably IC, someone got a few knocks, and you crit someone over it, you took it to a higher level yourself and yet i'm not really that bothered about that either, you've spent far longer arguing about something than you put into planning your "RP" or being healed by medical
23:26:56: Reply from-twiggyjr: Because it was also my first time playing chap. I was reading the wiki so I knew what to do SO i could come up with an RP
23:29:19: Reply from-iain0: yeah, though you can go sell people the bathwater as random assistants too, its just an RP gimmick, chaplains can be more about divine interactions and stuff, but it is largely just a RP centered role. i dont really mind your gimmick either but its not exactly some high brow RP with a story line, and from a different perspective kinda funny having the dog try bite your friend to chase off the wierdo. nothing really escalated to serious levels until people start getting crit, which you were the first to do
23:30:06: Reply from-iain0: and even then everyone got medical attention and as far as i know went on from this event quite normally so... none of its really that significant
23:30:09: Reply from-twiggyjr: He threatened to kill him, and no doubt would have arrested us / permad if we killed iain for attacking us?
23:30:48: Reply from-twiggyjr: i'll keep in mind if I ever play sec that I can just attack people and claim I have reason; thanks. You let me know that sec get away with it
23:30:51: Reply from-iain0: speculation about possible futures that didn't happen are not something i'm going to rule on, the dog can be stopped at any time or in fact quite easily killed, as you did
23:31:15: Reply from-twiggyjr: You were ruling on it, saying that "What if he was a traitor" I had no idea if he was or wasn't, I was defending a follower
23:31:44: Reply from-iain0: classic ahelp closer, good luck with that because no admin will take a historical ticket as precedent setting on a future context, you will be evaluated for your actions and clearly "attack people for no reason" is going to get you banned from sec. your friend clearly started this weird interaction with security. but you do you and good luck!
23:37:39: Client disconnected
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iain0
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Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:23 pm
Byond Username: Iain0

Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657005

This was a weird ticket from the very start and didn't make a lot of sense, in the end I think I looked into enough stuff to get a pretty good idea of how events played out in total but its far from where I started my investigation here.

The very first line about you getting attacked by the HOP for no reason didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me from a quick scroll through your combat log (plus someone else contributes to your damage), and explicitly stating that you're RPing in an RP game is one of those things that catches my attention, and later on that will show some fruition.

I start by looking over your combat log which is where I always start, all I really see in here is you getting bit by ian (which I at some point mis-conclude is due to you being in the way, I don't think I had the timestamps quite right here), and shoving and critting the detective who has been promoted to the HOS, killing ian, and then a bunch of people crit you. Given your initial question is over why you got critted along with the classic claim of "for no reason", this seems like a fairly typical if confusing ahelp so far, lots of people say "for no reason" and then their combat logs show an obvious reason happening right before. I wish people would just give the actual story rather than blanking over things with "I'm RPing" and "For no reason!".

I ask what you mean by "roleplaying chaplain", and you quote your "follower" - or quote exactly one of the two things they said, the less inflamatory one in fact, though I wont know this at the time, it's enough that I'm more distracted by the oddness of you randomly critting someone in security.

Part of the "chaos" of terry that you talk about involves random people just getting involved in arrests and interfering with sec/command for no reason other than they walked into the middle of a situation. Given how much you've glossed over your own actions so far (the ole claim of for no reason) I'm not getting the best of feelings about this ticket already and want to know all about the important part you didn't mention thus far. I have absolutely no idea why they want to attack your follower still at this point, but generally speaking, if security have an issue with someone there's usually a reason and interfering without knowing whats going on can be bad. I try impress this on you a few times including at the end, but at this point having still not figured out where this all actually started I presume there's some initial flash point between your friend and security, which likely involves some minor crime, and thus you getting involved and critting sec seems weird. I'll maintain this point to the end that you should be very careful about attacking sec and who you're protecting, though in the end none of this is that relevant in the big picture.

So far, where things started hasn't been that relevant, in terms of the ticket as initially expressed, the initial question in the ticket about why you got attacked "for no reason", I felt this had been answered thus far, you crit someone and got crit and this doesn't seem that unexpected, or particularly unexplained, but at this point my search is getting broader and broader and I start to review the logs for your follower.

And this is where my gut instinct about "trying to RP chap" shows that I should have followed that a bit more, your friend doesn't just go up to them and say "hey cutie", they follow it up with "you want e-girl femboy water?". And I guess at this point the entire story starts to fall into place. You're both being weird, possibly OOC ICing about the e-girl bathwater stuff that did the rounds a year or two ago, but I don't feel like I particularly care that much either, and the whole thing just seems like you took something that was kinda weird in the first place and were weird with it. I don't really understand what your "role play" here is either and do ask but you don't seem to have a plan, I figure you'll either be handing out water or expecting some kinda IC reaction to this. Which is what happens.

So at the end of the day, the play out of events that i drew from all this is:

You and your follower go up to the HOP office and offer someone "e-girl femboy water", the other person plays outrage and threatens to kill your follower and sets the dog on em who does a total of ~25 points of damage.
You attack the person for attacking your follower, get the dog set on you, and you proceed to clean up killing both the dog and critting the other person.
You then get crit yourself
Everyone goes to medbay, you succumb for some reason, and then everyone gets healed up and carries on.

And my ultimate conclusion is that its just IC through and through. You get attacked for critting another person, which is escalation of them having a dog bite your follower a few times which is a result of the initial interaction over the "femboy e-girl (bath?)water". I dont have an issue with the dog biting your friend, your friend did not get murdered and I doubt they would have. You decided to attack over this and while attacking security may be questionable in some circumstances, in this situation it all just feels like part of the IC brawl, and your following crit seems fine to me too. I genuinely don't see anything to get that bothered about in all of these events and maybe come up with a less weird gimmick if you don't want negative reactions to it in future. Worship coffee, who could hate coffee?

The only real question seems to be wether its okay to get upset about being offered "e-girl femboy water", and while I wouldn't attack you over this myself it's pretty weird to me and I don't really like it. But also not going to stop you doing it. But I also don't think I care about a little damage being applied over this either. You just escalated the severity and then get crit yourself.

In the end, not a whole lot of any significance happened, the events were over in a few minutes and the ticket and complaint have been far more long winded.

LRP is pretty chaotic at times, you could try MRP, but I'm not really sure what their take on the bathwater RP would be either.

Ultimately I decided I didn't really care enough in either direction, the whole setup was kinda odd, and it just played out as a fight that everyone recovered from quite quickly and moved on. The initial ticket about "why did i get crit by the HOP (and someone else with a broom attacked you)" seemed not that complicated, the full story is just weird. Feel everyone's part in this story is just various forms of IC, and escalation was suitably served by everyone getting prompt medical.




I will also ask that you give more detail in your initial ticket, trying to gloss over things selectively as "for no reason" and "chap RP" only serves to derail me because I'm going to discover these things and assume you've glossed over them for a reason, because this is usually what happens in tickets. If you'd given me more to work with we could probably have gotten through the whole thing much faster, though I'm still not sure I'd have decided this was anything more than IC given what I perceive to be the overall weirdness combined with lack of any significant impact on anyone's round.
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TheSmallBlue
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:55 pm
Byond Username: SmallBlue

Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TheSmallBlue » #657007

Here are the logs related to the complaint that involve TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (OP), AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (The follower), Nowell Petrov (HoS/HoP), and Ian (woof).
Taken from the attack logs and the game logs.

Effie and Halbert meet eachother:
[2022-11-22 22:32:18.989] SAY: 22:32:18.989] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Anyone wish to join the religion of E-girls bathwater?" (Chapel (89,67,2))
[2022-11-22 22:32:26.590] SAY: 22:32:26.590] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "i wann" (Central Primary Hallway (116,143,2))
[2022-11-22 22:32:50.102] SAY: 22:32:50.102] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "where e girl water" (Chapel (92,64,2))

[2022-11-22 22:32:52.542] SAY: 22:32:52.542] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "welcome my child" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:32:57.082] SAY: 22:32:57.082] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Through these teachings" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:32:59.765] SAY: 22:32:59.765] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "you will become one" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:02.533] SAY: 22:33:02.533] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "with the e-girl water" (Chapel (92,62,2))

[2022-11-22 22:33:06.090] SAY: 22:33:06.090] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "hmm..." (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:06.106] EMOTE: 22:33:06.106] EMOTE: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) points at E-Girl Bathwater (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:15.729] SAY: 22:33:15.729] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "i will become e girl?" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:21.681] SAY: 22:33:21.681] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "y..es" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:25.072] SAY: 22:33:25.072] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "hmm" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:26.623] SAY: 22:33:26.623] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "im in" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:36.971] SAY: 22:33:36.971] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "what i need to do" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:54.584] SAY: 22:33:54.584] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "I GOT AWFUL IDEA" (Chapel (92,64,2))

[2022-11-22 22:33:57.251] EMOTE: 22:33:57.251] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) laughs. (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:33:59.146] SAY: 22:33:59.146] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Please child" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:34:00.841] SAY: 22:34:00.841] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "lay it upon me" (Chapel (92,62,2))

[2022-11-22 22:34:08.923] SAY: 22:34:08.923] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "e girl water + femboy e girl water" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:34:15.481] SAY: 22:34:15.481] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Fantastic.." (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:34:23.956] SAY: 22:34:23.956] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "We must get jars of water" (Chapel (92,62,2))

[2022-11-22 22:34:31.439] SAY: 22:34:31.439] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "indeed we need to" (Chapel (92,63,2))
[2022-11-22 22:34:47.838] SAY: 22:34:47.838] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "let me change my appearance then" (Chapel (92,63,2))
[2022-11-22 22:35:05.680] SAY: 22:35:05.680] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "also i need proper dress" (Chapel (92,63,2))

[2022-11-22 22:35:09.260] SAY: 22:35:09.260] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Yes, I will await here." (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:35:13.679] SAY: 22:35:13.679] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "What would you like to wear" (Chapel (92,62,2))

[2022-11-22 22:35:14.796] EMOTE: 22:35:14.796] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) laughs. (Chapel (92,63,2))
[2022-11-22 22:35:26.645] SAY: 22:35:26.645] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "man this sounds funny" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:05.903] SAY: 22:37:05.903] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "here i am" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:07.231] SAY: 22:37:07.231] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "new" (Chapel (92,64,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:11.512] SAY: 22:37:11.512] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "femboy e-girl" (Chapel (92,64,2))

[2022-11-22 22:37:11.612] SAY: 22:37:11.612] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Welcome.. I am just deciding on our holy weapon" (Chapel (92,62,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:21.287] EMOTE: 22:37:21.287] EMOTE: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) points at DeusVend (Chapel Office (85,68,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:32.106] SAY: 22:37:32.106] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "i have no money" (Chapel Office (83,68,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:35.464] SAY: 22:37:35.464] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "all spent on" (Chapel Office (83,68,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:51.762] SAY: 22:37:51.762] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "we also need to go see hop" (Chapel Office (83,70,2))
[2022-11-22 22:37:56.578] SAY: 22:37:56.578] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "to change my card name" (Chapel Office (83,70,2))

[2022-11-22 22:37:59.114] SAY: 22:37:59.114] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Agreed" (Chapel Office (84,68,2))

Confrontation with Nowell:

[2022-11-22 22:38:27.560] SAY: 22:38:27.560] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "hey cutie" (Command Hallway (95,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:28.363] EMOTE: 22:38:28.363] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) points at Unknown (Command Hallway (95,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:29.329] SAY: 22:38:29.329] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Hello janitor" (Command Hallway (96,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:31.330] EMOTE: 22:38:31.330] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:31.530] EMOTE: 22:38:31.530] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:35.116] SAY: 22:38:35.116] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "kill him" (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:38.154] SAY: 22:38:38.154] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "i gotta" (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:40.032] SAY: 22:38:40.032] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "kill him" (Head of Personnel's Office (97,132,2))

[2022-11-22 22:38:40.534] SAY: 22:38:40.534] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "you want e-girl femboy water?" (Command Hallway (95,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:41.533] EMOTE: 22:38:41.533] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:41.697] EMOTE: 22:38:41.697] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Head of Personnel's Office (97,131,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:43.545] EMOTE: 22:38:43.545] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at the carpet (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:44.181] EMOTE: 22:38:44.181] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Head of Personnel (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))

[2022-11-22 22:38:44.266] SAY: 22:38:44.266] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "Would you like to join, the E-gril bathwater religion" (Command Hallway (96,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:44.360] EMOTE: 22:38:44.360] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) laughs. (Command Hallway (95,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:44.404] EMOTE: 22:38:44.404] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Head of Personnel (Head of Personnel's Office (96,133,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:46.595] SAY: 22:38:46.595] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "please let me out" (Head of Personnel's Office (95,133,2))

[2022-11-22 22:38:50.333] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (94,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:51.123] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) kicks AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:51.124] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:52.231] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (94,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:54.323] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) broke grab AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (90,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:56.022] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (91,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.099] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) kicks AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.100] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.667] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (95,127,2))

[2022-11-22 22:38:59.047] EMOTE: 22:38:59.047] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Command Hallway (92,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:59.083] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:59.894] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 93.3) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.169] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed *no key*/(Ian) passive grab (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.448] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.682] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 86.5) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.483] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.617] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) fired a puff of reagents from [floor] with the pepperspray with a range of [3], containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity). (Command Hallway (92,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:01.617] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) fired a puff of reagents from a pepperspray with a range of [3] and containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity). (Command Hallway (92,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.631] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [ticket machine] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:01.632] EMOTE: 22:39:01.632] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) cries. (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.635] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.636] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.939] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (95,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:02.230] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (96,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:02.918] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) kicks Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:02.919] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:03.661] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:04.580] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (92,128,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:04.688] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 76.8) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:05.435] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (92,128,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:07.917] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (92,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:08.696] EMOTE: 22:39:08.696] EMOTE: *no key*/(Ian) stares menacingly at Halbert Vainstein! (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:09.001] EMOTE: 22:39:09.001] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at the floor (Command Hallway (96,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:09.619] EMOTE: 22:39:09.619] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Effie Jihn (Command Hallway (96,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:09.779] EMOTE: 22:39:09.779] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Effie Jihn (Command Hallway (96,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:10.564] SAY: 22:39:10.564] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "my vassel" (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:12.160] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed *no key*/(Ian) passive grab (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:13.540] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 75) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:13.790] EMOTE: 22:39:13.790] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) claps. (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:14.082] EMOTE: 22:39:14.082] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Effie Jihn (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:14.341] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 73.1) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:15.211] SAY: 22:39:15.211] SAY: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "why are you attacking" (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:15.938] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 68.6) (Command Hallway (91,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:16.100] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved *no key*/(Ian) with pushing it (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (92,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:17.542] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 66.4) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:18.082] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 63.4) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:18.344] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 63.4) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:18.515] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved *no key*/(Ian) with failing to move it (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:19.143] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 60.4) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:19.439] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved *no key*/(Ian) with failing to move it (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (94,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:19.958] EMOTE: 22:39:19.958] EMOTE: *no key*/(Ian) stares menacingly at Effie Jihn! (Command Hallway (95,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:20.944] EMOTE: 22:39:20.944] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) laughs. (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:21.658] EMOTE: 22:39:21.658] EMOTE: *no key*/(Ian) barks menacingly at Effie Jihn! (Command Hallway (97,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:22.464] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 58.5) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:23.275] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 51) (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:24.863] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 46.5) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:25.658] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 42) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:26.404] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked *no key*/(Ian) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 2) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:27.276] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 36.8) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:27.308] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked *no key*/(Ian) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 0) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:28.250] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 82) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:29.472] SAY: 22:39:29.472] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "YOU" (Command Hallway (97,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:29.567] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (98,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:29.928] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) has thrown the banana cream pie (Command Hallway (95,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:30.021] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) threw and hit TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with the banana cream pie (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (95,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:31.521] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) stun attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with the police baton (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:32.475] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) kicks TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:32.476] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:33.426] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) passive grab (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:34.398] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:35.349] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) thrown TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) grab from tile in Command Hallway (97,127,2) towards tile at Teleporter Room (97,124,2) (NEWHP: 33.8) (Command Hallway (97,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:35.350] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) has thrown Effie Jihn (Command Hallway (97,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:35.499] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) has thrown the banana cream pie (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:35.559] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) threw and hit Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with the banana cream pie (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:36.923] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:37.791] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) kicks Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (96,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:37.792] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (96,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:38.758] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) grabbed Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) passive grab (NEWHP: 64) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:39.563] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 46) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:39.761] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) grabbed Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 46) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:40.483] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 28) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:41.081] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) resisted grab AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 71.8) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:41.082] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) broke grab Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 28) (Command Hallway (96,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:41.407] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 10) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:42.654] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -3.5) (Command Hallway (97,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:43.595] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -21.5) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:44.680] WHISPER: 22:39:44.680] WHISPER: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "i die" (Command Hallway (99,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:45.546] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) attacked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -39.5) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:45.743] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) into Effie Jihn (NEWHP: -39.5) (Command Hallway (98,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:47.132] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) stun attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with the telescopic baton (NEWHP: 30) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:47.494] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) kicked Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: -39.5) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:47.495] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) got a stun punch with their previous punch Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: -49.4) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:48.310] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) kicks TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 30) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:48.311] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) shoved TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) (NEWHP: 30) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:49.924] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) suffered: Minor Breakage to right leg | Damage: 18 (rolled 51/57.1981) | WB: -10 (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:49.925] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 16.5) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:50.782] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 8.4) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:50.836] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (99,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:52.069] ATTACK: Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with ancient spear (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -2.1) (Command Hallway (100,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:53.243] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))

[2022-11-22 22:39:53.961] WHISPER: 22:39:53.961] WHISPER: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) "hop attacked for no reason" (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:57.187] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) shoved Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (103,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:58.580] EMOTE: 22:39:58.580] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) claps. (Command Hallway (99,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:00.310] ATTACK: Game_And_Glitch3/(Avery Mcfall) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with push broom (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -7.2) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:01.223] ATTACK: Game_And_Glitch3/(Avery Mcfall) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with push broom (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -13.2) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:01.693] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) fired a puff of reagents from [floor] with the pepperspray with a range of [3], containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity). (Command Hallway (103,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:01.693] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) fired a puff of reagents from a pepperspray with a range of [3] and containing /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity). (Command Hallway (103,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:01.718] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [footprints] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (103,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:01.719] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (103,126,2))

[2022-11-22 22:40:02.008] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed Chimpston/(Gay Johnson) with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:02.008] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:02.190] ATTACK: Game_And_Glitch3/(Avery Mcfall) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with push broom (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -19.2) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:02.301] ATTACK: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) sprayed [floor] with the pepperspray which had /datum/reagent/consumable/condensedcapsaicin (1.7u, 1 purity) (Command Hallway (102,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:03.038] ATTACK: Game_And_Glitch3/(Avery Mcfall) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with push broom (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -25.2) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:03.847] ATTACK: Game_And_Glitch3/(Avery Mcfall) attacked TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) with push broom (Wielded) (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -31.2) (Command Hallway (100,127,2))

[2022-11-22 22:40:04.244] EMOTE: 22:40:04.244] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) claps. (Command Hallway (108,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:05.925] EMOTE: 22:40:05.925] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) laughs. (Command Hallway (108,123,2))

[2022-11-22 22:40:07.657] EMOTE: 22:40:07.657] EMOTE: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) gasps! (Command Hallway (101,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:10.635] SAY: 22:40:10.635] SAY: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) "ded" (Command Hallway (101,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:14.522] EMOTE: 22:40:14.522] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) claps. (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:15.832] EMOTE: 22:40:15.832] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) gasps! (Command Hallway (95,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:17.854] GAME: 22:40:17.854] GAME: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) started fireman carrying Effie Jihn. (Command Hallway (104,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:17.854] GAME: 22:40:17.854] GAME: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) was fireman carried by Halbert Vainstein. (Command Hallway (103,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:34.105] SAY: 22:40:34.105] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "i died" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:34.824] SAY: 22:40:34.824] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "to" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))

[2022-11-22 22:40:37.405] EMOTE: 22:40:37.405] EMOTE: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless... (Medbay Central (93,104,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:37.868] SAY: 22:40:37.868] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "randoms i" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))
... (removed Effie switching mob from carbon to observer)
[2022-11-22 22:40:38.996] SAY: 22:40:38.996] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "wish i" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:39.859] EMOTE: 22:40:39.859] EMOTE: AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) claps. (Medbay Central (93,104,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:42.750] SAY: 22:40:42.750] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "got" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))
[2022-11-22 22:40:44.380] SAY: 22:40:44.380] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "dead" (Head of Personnel's Office (96,132,2))


Here the confrontation seems to stop while the ticket in question begins.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by Archie700 » #657014

Per escalation policy
As a non-antagonist you may begin conflict with another player with valid reason (refusal of critical services, belligerent attitude, etc) OR if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job. Whomever you engage is entitled to respond to your actions. If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action.

If you are wronged, you are expected to handle the conflict non-lethally whenever possible, escalating in severity as the conflict continues. As the defending party the rate of escalation increases with you, up to and including violence, while the instigator is always able to respond in kind.

If a conflict leads to violence and either participant is incapacitated, the standing participant is expected to make an effort to treat the other, unless they have reason to believe the other was an antagonist. Once treated the conflict is over; any new conflict with either individual must escalate once again. If you get into a conflict again with that individual, they may be removed permanently from the round.

Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
Relevant:
[2022-11-22 22:38:46.595] SAY: 22:38:46.595] SAY: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) "please let me out" (Head of Personnel's Office (95,133,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:50.333] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (94,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:51.123] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) kicks AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:51.124] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:52.231] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (94,129,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:54.323] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) broke grab AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (90,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:56.022] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (91,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.099] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) kicks AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.100] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) shoved AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:57.667] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (95,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:59.047] EMOTE: 22:38:59.047] EMOTE: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) points at Halbert Vainstein (Command Hallway (92,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:59.083] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:38:59.894] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 93.3) (Command Hallway (92,127,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.169] ATTACK: Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) grabbed *no key*/(Ian) passive grab (NEWHP: 20) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.448] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) shoved Account name contains reserved/(Nowell Petrov) (NEWHP: 100) (Command Hallway (93,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:00.682] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 86.5) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
[2022-11-22 22:39:01.483] ATTACK: *no key*/(Ian) attacked AyeBlinchik/(Halbert Vainstein) (NEWHP: 81.3) (Command Hallway (91,126,2))
The HoS started the fight over a stupid reason and escalated to lethals via Ian.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657018

Well I fluffed my log parsing here, missing out the spaces in a particular ckey so i missed the ordering of the kill threat before the bathwater comment, that said, there's still no actual damage until later on after all this, from ian, with it just being a few shoves off the "hey cutie" comment potentially.

I still don't know that I particularly care given the whole e-gril bathwater or whatever is out on the table by the time anything interesting kicks off, and stuff leading up to crits and recovery largely seems normal escalation, noting you're the first person to crit someone, but I'm fine with that being IC escalation response throughout this whole thing. Ultimately the follower got away most lightly, with the HOS/det being the first to fall and you the second.

I will note I regret getting distracted by the security aspect early on, unfortunately you being crit and claiming FNR and completely glossing over the fact you just had combat with someone else which is almost certainly related, is a pattern in tickets which lead to me digging way too much on suspicions through combat logs, though given the scope of the actual original ticket I largely wasn't that interested in the "follower" initially as I was trying to explain why someone might get mobbed after critting someone working for security, which seemed to be the answer to the initial question. But ultimately what I needed to do was find the "RP" in the chat logs instead. At least for things to make full sense.

In hindsight, I should probably have pulled the whole logs and parsed for 4 ckeys from the start but the question of why they got crit by the HOP and didn't seem to require that depth initially.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657034

My biggest issue here is that the rules seemed to have been totally dismissed even after I quoted them to Iain.

I was attacked, as was my follower for SEEMINGLY no reason, I get its LRP but surely it doesn't mean NO RP.

If I broke the rules im happy to face the consequences but from what I see its your personal take on the " bathwater" that also makes you want to brush it off too, letting personal bias come into play. Thats what miffed me off the most.

Rules dont seem to be upheld, it allows stuff like that to happen.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657035

iain0 wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:35 am unfortunately you being crit and claiming FNR and completely glossing over the fact you just had combat with someone else which is almost certainly related, is a pattern in tickets which lead to me digging way too much on suspicions through combat logs, though given the scope of the actual original ticket I largely wasn't that interested in the "follower" initially as I was trying to explain why someone might get mobbed after critting someone working for security, which seemed to be the answer to the initial question. But ultimately what I needed to do was find the "RP" in the chat logs instead. At least for things to make full sense.
Well the fact he pointed at us , said "Kill him" for, what was in my eyes no reason due to absolutey nothing being stated AND round starting literally 5 mins prior.

I completely understand attacking sec is a killable / perma brig crime. Especially if grey tiding. But as per the rules quoted above, i escalated normally as far as I can see. HoS / Detective did not.

With the rules i posted in my original post I still stand by believing that the HoS broke them and you completely dismissed it and made it out as if I was the issue.

I'll bear in mind to make my reports more in depth for the future, but I will stand by you dismissing me and getting defensive when I explain the situation. You had a bias of what happened in your head and "that was that".
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657041

Thanks for the reply. The whole stuff about security is a red herring in this ticket, a result of me working backwards through events from you being crit "for no reason", by the point i've finished piecing the story together i end up feeling this interaction is more a inter-personal thing and the security side of things doesn't actually matter here. That said I'm not a huge fan of security starting personal drama as it has an occasional habbit of the seccie pulling the whole sec department down on a person or department which only ends badly, but in this case security is only one person as its lowish pop anyway.

There's definately some preconceptions I have when taking this ticket, even before I reply I noted in admin chat "What is #3?", because I've opened your combat log, and saying you were crit "for no reason" doesn't make a lot of sense when the immediately proceeding event is you critting a security officer - I'm pretty sure these two things are connected, while "for no reason" literally means they randomly crit you with no prior events that might explain this. Given we're talking about the HOPs actions at the end of this entire story it doesn't look like there's no context to this.

I also know Gay and Nowell quite well as players, what they don't do is go around attacking people completely randomly and for no reason. Debates can be had about what's a suitable reason or response or level of response but 'for no reason' just isn't how they play.

Typically a couple of tickets will come in a day where someone reports how they got killed "for no reason", and a quick log check will show they're in the armory or something, which prompts questioning on this, and before too long the whole "for no reason" turns into "for this reason" and the ticket ends up IC. Having the ticket and log events being disjointed doesn't make this a good starting point.

My approach to investigative stuff is that I build the objective logs in my mind, then map on what I've been told by the ticket and see how things align, if everything checks out and it looks like a possible rule break I'll bwoink the other party to get the gaps. If it doesn't check out, I'll be questioning the discrepancies until everything there is in alignment and then I'll consider my next move.

So from the very top, both the FNR claim is clearly not FNR, the response to my request around the RP doesn't actually tell me what the RP is which turns out to be relevant, the HOS isn't even mentioned in the ticket but got critted as the obvious counter to the FNR claim, and thus the initial ticket is both very confusing but at the same time I'm pretty sure the HOP crits you because you crit the HOS and killed the dog, even if I don't yet understand why any of this unfolds.

The chain I follow to finally unravel all this is long, as per the original ahelp my initial focus is on your combat logs, and then the HOPs logs, none of whom seem to order ian, and just looking at your logs shows you as attacking the HOS before they do anything to you (the in game log viewer is basically a per player interface, and shows things you do and have been done to you, but given the eventual scope of this event it misses the start of the whole chain and largely launches with you shoving, dog bites and then spearing dog/hos). This leads me on to reading the HOS's logs and eventually this leads me on to reading the followers logs, whereupon I finally get the answer to my question about what the RP is and finally can construct a chain of events in my mind that makes sense.

Is it okay or is it going too far? That's the question, personally I found the interaction amusing, short lived, and with no long term consequences. It also took me about 25 minutes to get through enough of the logs to even understand what was going on here to the point I knew who to question about what, and this means bwoinking the HOP and HOS for their point of view, the random guy with the broom might need checking out if we're going by the book, and there's probably some value in mapping the follower's point of view onto all this, and were I to do that, ultimately how serious was all this and what action would I take?

Spending 25 minutes digging up a meme about drinking e-girl bathwater (which turns you into a femboy?) to understand this case could have been very easily shortcut if you'd explained what the RP was when asked to, the ticket ends being one where I end up having to challenge almost everything that's said to me in terms of information because it's selective and misses out details that I'll consider crucial (HOS, meme), or even technically claims there aren't these details (FNR). It's kinda frustrating dealing with tickets like this, and with the events long long being over and everyone having moved on with presumably no further issues (or I assume they would have been raised over the course of this ticket) it largely seemed like I'd wasted a lot of time getting to the point I'd start a more serious investigation by bwoinking other people, and even then I question if the whole thing is borderline reaction baiting which just makes most of whats going on here IC.

Ultimately I feel the whole meme thing was likely to be an RP that caused some drama, perhaps by design, and that I'd been selectively fed bits of information without being given full context or answers to my questions, then there's the fact that you succumbed in medical, admittedly close to death but this is just another of those things where people choosing to die literally seconds from a stasis bed can be seen as making the whole thing more dramatic by intentionally escalating it from a "i got crit" to "i got killed". I felt a lot of time was unnecessarily wasted over something with limited consequences and debating how much this meme is valid grounds for dog chomping 30 minutes into a ticket didn't really seem like a conversation I wanted to have. To me, it was all just weird enough, and we both spent far far more of our round in this ticket than the events/consequences in this ticket impacted anyone or everyone combined, so I was fairly content to just drop it all as ICish and move on with things rather than dig into long finished events of questionable issue.
Relevant attack.log line wrote: [2022-11-22 22:40:37.405] ATTACK: TwiggyJr/(Effie Jihn) Has succumbed to death with -81.7 points of health! (Medbay Central (93,104,2))
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657042

Again, i still believe they broke the rules.

I never said anywhere drinking the water turned them into an "eboy" the follower did thst themselves. Isnt the whole point of RP, elaborating as you go? I didnt have a plan, couldnt make a plan. I was randomly attacked, as was the follower, for no reason.

I get my original comaplaint was crap because I was angry about what happened, but I even after I explained the rules that I thought they had broken you instantly dismissed my comments and just turned the blame wholey on me.

It also reinforces
there are a lot of “regulars” that seem to do as they want
With you saying
I also know Gay and Nowell quite well as players, what they don't do is go around attacking people completely randomly and for no reason.
Because its quite clearly obvious, they did. Thats exactly what they done no matter how you look at it. Its an abuse of power by a head of department which, to quote the rules to you again, its against.

And other admins on discord agree that anyone abusing new players is against rule 1.

The reason I dragged it on is because you just straight up dismissed me, and built your own picture even after I tried to explain it instead of saying something like "i'll check the logs properly after this, can you elaborate more?" Instead of antagonising me with "so where does you attacking sec come i to this?"

As the logs above show, he said "kill him." And then set iain on us both.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657043

I suppose to edit my original complaint. It's not regarding the situation in game that happened. Its regarding Iains attitude towards it and dismissal of the situation after he made up his own mind.

Edited spelling mistake, on mobile.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657044

I think we have a different interpretation of "for no reason", for me it means events that happen with no possible contextual explanation, griefy murderers who just open up on passers by are the typical (but also kinda rare). You initially use this phrase to complain that the HOP attacked you entirely randomly, and yet this clearly doesn't mesh well with the combat log and leads me to asking where the security attack fits in, because as far as the original ahelp goes, dispelling the "FNR" into a probable reason is the most immediate likely answer, and likely starts to explain why any of this happened (and eventually does).

Similarly claiming nowell's actions at the start are "for no reason" doesn't really fit my use of that phrase, it's part of the interaction between your follower and the gimmick and them. Is it a good enough reason? Fair question, which I've been over before, but its not "no reason".

Nowell tends to play a bit crazy, this aggressive attitude validates your IC perspective even if the dog is not much of a threat and thus events play out, I feel most people have a IC point of view and little of what happens is entirely just randomly enacted. Ultimately it just feels more like a weird interaction all round, plays out in fairly short time and no-one even need have died. Even when I'm initially handling this the whole e-girl bathwater drinking femboy thing feels weird, and given how unimmersed in internet culture I am I don't really know how much weirder it might get. (And I have since done a incognito search out of curiosity, and yeah, not unpredictably it descends into herpes and pee memes apparently, not that this reflects on the intended RP, but more culturally immersed people will have these associations from the memes)

Still feels like the whole thing is somewhat reaction baitey, but after all that time just to get to the bottom of where things started it felt like it already wasn't worth the time invested by us versus any action I might take.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657046

Again, you're just totally dismissing the blatant rules I have shown you that they seemed to have ignored, and you as well.

I quote you
Nowell tends to play a bit crazy, this aggressive attitude validates your IC perspective
I quote the form rules

Rule 1 Precedents

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane
Dont you see how contradictory you are being? I have stated before, im not even annoyed at the IC interaction, im annoyed at your blatant dismissal of the official rules for the servers. You give excuses that seem to "justify" why this happened when it shouldn't have.

I just want to know where the line is actually drawn with the rules since you seem to make them up / abide by them when you want.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657069

I've been over my reasons for dropping the case, but to summarise, by the time I actually understood what was the story was, the events were long over, the ticket took more time than anyone was inconvenienced IC, so much of the information I needed had to be discovered through deeper and deeper log dives despite how much my first question regarding the 'chap RP' should have touched on useful leads. Or the death of the seccie being mentioned before I brought it up. Multiple people were weird here, but everyone seemed to be playing some IC role, the claims of "for no reason" don't seem to be the full story, and everyone was back in the game by 5 minutes later. I don't think anyone is getting banned over this so to me it just doesn't seem worth dragging it out more than it already had been, the IC events of weird meets weird didn't seem to have had any significant impact on anyone's round.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657086

TwiggyJrr wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:51 am My biggest issue here is that the rules seemed to have been totally dismissed even after I quoted them to Iain.

I was attacked, as was my follower for SEEMINGLY no reason, I get its LRP but surely it doesn't mean NO RP.

If I broke the rules im happy to face the consequences but from what I see its your personal take on the " bathwater" that also makes you want to brush it off too, letting personal bias come into play. Thats what miffed me off the most.

Rules dont seem to be upheld, it allows stuff like that to happen.
I still stand by this. Especially that it doesnt feel rules are upheld. Raising to lethals via Iain was an attack, as was his "Kill him." Order was unprovoked after one sentence of "Hey Cutie."
iain0 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:47 am the IC events of weird meets weird didn't seem to have had any significant impact on anyone's round.
As I said before, its the lack of upholding of rules which I feel allows situations like this to happen consistently which, overtime, will impact players rounds like it did mine, thankfully not permanently. However, if I didn't report to admin and he didn't get bwoinked I probably would have been arrested and permad.

If rules arent upheld, chaos ensues and it will in turn consistently affect peoples playtime and general opinion on how these stations run.

I would move to MRP but Campbell is rarely populated meaning it's unlikely to get a round; my ping isn't good on US so at a massive disadvantage.

The lack of upheld rules makes it feel like NRP.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by iain0 » #657094

"I’ve been playing on TG Terry station for a few days now. I’ve noticed it’s a little chaotic"

It's not that rules aren't upheld, I'm on this server for hours pretty much every day, I've seen and dealt with a lot of stuff. In fact I remember talking to you just a few hours earlier that day (or maybe the previous day) about your concerns about people tiding items. I looked over your ticket history and found another ticket that could be taken as 'culture shock' - at the time you even raised this ahelp you'd been playing on TG for about 10 hours and had a few different run-ins with aspects that didn't suit you. Terry is chaotic, but there is definately a line. And this whole bunch of weirdness, 25 minutes after it was all over, wasn't worth persuing further IMO. I feel like at worst I PM everyone and say "be a little less weird".

In the ticket where you talked about people tiding items I suggested that perhaps Terry just wasn't really the style you were looking for, and MRP with its "stay in lane" policies and so on may much better suit your expectations where people probably shouldn't be just pushing through and printing their own stuff for their own things, there's more expectation on people doing their jobs and you being able to ask people to do their job ; much more *actual* role play, while LRP is often more freeform, silly, often comedic (I found some of this exchange, and the comments Nowell makes afterwards lamenting he'll have to wear a vest to be mildly amusing), and certainly chaotic. And it doesn't suit everyones tastes, the desire for something purer to RP was where our MRP servers formed from only a few years ago I guess.

Campbell never 'recovered' from all European RPers migrating to play on Manuel, we do have european RPers, they're just also over there playing on Manuel, so you may not be at such a disadvantage as you think, plus the more RP orientated environment /may/ make the reaction times somewhat less relevant too. Given all that I learned about you in our few interactions plus some either dead chat or OOC I do feel that the style here would better suit you - maybe give it a go for a few hours and see how it feels?

I somewhat question how much of this is pure dissatisfaction with the events here and how much may be an accumulation of dislike for the way the server has played out over the rounds you've been in, like the straw that broke the camels back.

As for you not getting permabrigged or any follow up IC, that was purely their choice. The HOS (who isn't even mentioned in the original ticket) being the 3rd persons logs I read while I'm trying to understand this, before I follow the link from them to the follower (the interaction between these two only being partially explained by you) and is ultimately where I find the weird RP intro between your follower and the HOS (again showing a partial answer when I asked you what "trying to RP chap" meant). As noted, at this point I don't feel the whole situation warrents much action as its all just weird IC stuff that everyone long moved on from. But since I don't pursue it any further (the next step being bwoinking the HOS HOP and probably the follower, and maybe the person with the broom, to ask what their IC perspectives are), they don't get bwoinked at all, and even if I was to have bwoinked them, they wouldn't have gotten bwoinked in a timely fashion to stop you being arrested due to how long i spend reading multiple logs back-tracking the "for no reason". So the fact that everything just stopped after this interaction and everyone went on their normal way is simply how it played out IC between characters without my intervention.
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by TwiggyJrr » #657102

Like I said in multiple posts now, this isn't about the situation that had happened, as is the title of the forum post "ahelp turned to rule dismissal"

Since I seem to not understand what LRP is could you define it for me? Like what is the specific "LRP" policy so when I play I can go "oh that WASN'T against the rules, they were just being silly and acting out because they CAN!" which to add, acting out and attacking others because "My character is insane" is against the rules, weird...

I've seen people take "fun" or "interesting" roles such as roboticist, and suicide at the very start of the game. I understand that the rule applies to more Head roles, but as far as I am also aware, that can be classed as antag rolling because surprise surprise, they only seem to be alive on the rounds where they're an antag.

I am just trying to understand WHAT LRP is defined as so I know exactly what to ignore.

Also, the "culture shock" I got is true yes, being "speciesist" which I now learned isn't against the rules which is fine, awesome, but am I not allowed to do an ahelp when something seems a bit off to me? As far as I've been told from other admins.. "if you don't ask you don't know." So if you're discouraging me from asking when I think something might be wrong, cool. Long rule chaos. Also, coming off that, I also got told if it keeps happening to report it again so... It does seem to break a rule at some point.

And to quote another admin from discord replying to me:
Messing with new players is just a rule 1 offense. Depending on what they do in your department it should apply to most forms of grief.
So surely they DID break a rule, as much as a culture shock as it was?

So I'm going to repeat myself this is not about the ticket, its about what seemed to me rule dismissal:
  • What is LRP?
  • Where are the lines drawn?
  • What counts as just "Crazy character that can attack people for (In my eyes still) no reason" and the definition of it which = ban?
Edit: Regarding the "Culture Shock" I also got told by another player to ahelp it, which THEY ALSO DID so yknow I don't know why you're bringing it up as if it's evidence.
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spookuni
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Re: Iain0 - (not sure of IG name) - ahelp turned to rule dismissal

Post by spookuni » #657291

After much internal discussion we have decided to not uphold this complaint. The series of events presented here - while potentially concerning, are confusing enough even with full log access that we believe it reasonable to veer on the side of ruling in the moment that all is well that ends well (as no one was permanently incapacitated as a result of this altercation) and to declare the fight an IC issue. While the displayed activity by the head of security appears overly aggressive, there is plenty of material in the logs that would support some degree of escalation against a weirdo bathwater selling chaplain-cult, which makes it hard to say definitively that it was direct over-escalation.

Spook: Do Not Uphold
San: Do Not Uphold
Rave: Do Not Uphold - This overall seems like an IC issue, but the "kill him" from security does not appear to be good play
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