[Ausops] (4 Merged threads)

[Tornadium]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Well, consensus among those admins posting here seems to be - and correct me on that - that you're not awful for any one specific action that is bannable, but for the sum total.

Except in the ban reason it was justified with my "history" which should have been wiped out because every ban or job ban I had was overruled because the bans were utter shit and based on admin lying to try to get them to stick.

So how can bans where I did nothing wrong, were based on lies and overturned be used against me?

This is entirely based on me not rolling over and eating shit and accepting the previous bans I got. That was made perfectly clear last night. Certain admins are pissed at me because I didn't drop the issue and harbor that grudge.

The other two headmins are confused and don't think I should be rule 0'd as do other admins. I at least want a fair accounting and for Loller and Jordie to talk to Ausops before you just close this shit again.

[Tornadium]

Ok. since I can apparently ask the same question in 3 different trheads without anyone taking the effort to give a decent answer:

Can we PLEASE finally discuss why Tornadium was banned in the first place for a misread forum post?

There is no answer that's the thing.

Ausops and Saeg in particular have been hunting for a reason to drop a perma on me for a while now and have been pretty open about doing it.

Loller is perplexed by the ban and wonders why of all things this triggered a rule 0. I hadn't been playing in the last week or so, so I can't imagine anything I did ingame triggered this kind of response. Most other people read my post for what it was, pointing out that you can't police a system based on witness testimony.

Hell even J_Madison and Oranges acknowledged it had fucking nothing to do with the post, Just what people could forcefully interpret to justify a ban that they wanted for a long time because I didn't roll over and accept getting wrongfully banned.

[Tornadium]

Ausops, For fuck sake don't lock this one.

Of course Ikarrus posts this because he finally got the ban he wanted from 2012.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ad#p140305

[imblyings]

>I've never had a legit ban or note honest
>all those bans were based on lies by boogeymen admins
>I'm innocent and not a detriment to tg why would you ever think this
>Hey

You should have been reperma'd the moment you put admins through bullshit that you've been perma'd in the past for, when dealing with your validhunting ban earlier. Nobody really wants to deal with your shit, I had to do it then because I'm dumb enough to take the role of headmin and these things eventually end up on my plate.

>cptant
>listening to Tornadium's posts
>taking them seriously
>thinking Tornadium is self-aware enough to realize why he's being rule 0'd
>actually taking his blatant lies towards all his bans being overturned to be fact

No the more you let him talk, the messier this mess gets. It's the kind of problem you simply eject from a community, instead of letting it fester. MSO/other headmins are free to take me off the txt but they should think twice before unbanning him.

[imblyings]

Ausops, For fuck sake don't lock this one.

Of course Ikarrus posts this because he finally got the ban he wanted from 2012.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ad#p140305

have a (You)

[Tornadium]

>I've never had a legit ban or note honest
>all those bans were based on lies by boogeymen admins
>I'm innocent and not a detriment to tg why would you ever think this
>Hey

You should have been reperma'd the moment you put admins through bullshit that you've been perma'd in the past for, when dealing with your validhunting ban earlier. Nobody really wants to deal with your shit, I had to do it then because I'm dumb enough to take the role of headmin and these things eventually end up on my plate.

What fucking perma are you referring to?

The permaban I got from Saeg after Scones intentionally lied about me metagaming antag items to try to get a ban to stick because he got mad that he lost as an antag?

We went through every single ban I had and they were ALL shit (With regards to the security bans).

Edit : To clarify NikNak went through the DB for my old bans. I never had a perma prior to that to my knowledge at least none that I was ever told about. The only bans I'm aware of are the security horseshit fest that was decided that ALL of the bans were utter horseshit.

Especially since you know the perma was based on LIES.

>cptant
>listening to Tornadium's posts
>taking them seriously
>thinking Tornadium is self-aware enough to realize why he's being rule 0'd
>actually taking his blatant lies towards all his bans being overturned to be fact

No the more you let him talk, the messier this mess gets. It's the kind of problem you simply eject from a community, instead of letting it fester. MSO/other headmins are free to take me off the txt but they should think twice before unbanning him.

Are you serious?

> People might actually read what he is saying and come to the conclusion that we are wrong
> Quick better lock everything and ban before that happens.

What the fuck kind of headmin are you?

[imblyings]

i locked this

[MrStonedOne]

Locking your own admin complaint is not ok mkay?

[peoplearestrange]

I've merged these 4 topics. Next time ask a forum admin or global mod to reopen the topic. We'll happily do so if you wish to add something. It helps to keep stuff in one place to make it easier to reference and see as a whole. You can even mention it was close in your reply etc.

[Screemonster]

Well, consensus among those admins posting here seems to be - and correct me on that - that you're not awful for any one specific action that is bannable, but for the sum total.

Kinda this. Every FNR thread turns into a tl;dr circular shitstorm in which he's incapable of acknowledging even the slightest error and every time anything is brought up in which anyone has even the slightest justification for people being pissed off at him he moves goalposts faster than the FIFA world cup construction crew. That old thread where he got emagged as a borg and immediately murderboned after being explicitly instructed not to is a great example.

While no one single incident is permaban-worthy (and that forum post is reaching a bit) if I was in the admins' shoes I'd have tossed him in the "toxic player" pile long ago. It's what rule 0 is for.

[Shaps-cloud]

I remember I told tornadium to chill out with some shitcurity or something once in deadchat and he told me to shut the fuck up and called me a stupid cunt, really really not sad to see him go

[Tornadium]

Well, consensus among those admins posting here seems to be - and correct me on that - that you're not awful for any one specific action that is bannable, but for the sum total.

Kinda this. Every FNR thread turns into a tl;dr circular shitstorm in which he's incapable of acknowledging even the slightest error and every time anything is brought up in which anyone has even the slightest justification for people being pissed off at him he moves goalposts faster than the FIFA world cup construction crew. That old thread where he got emagged as a borg and immediately murderboned after being explicitly instructed not to is a great example.

While no one single incident is permaban-worthy (and that forum post is reaching a bit) if I was in the admins' shoes I'd have tossed him in the "toxic player" pile long ago. It's what rule 0 is for.

See how can I possibly defend myself against posts like this.

Those bans would never have been lifted unless I didn't do anything wrong. You clearly haven't read those threads because in quite a few I admit to being wrong about aspects of the situation.

So because I genuinely didn't do anything worthy of a ban or a job ban in the vast majority of sec bans I'm therefore incapable of acknowledging wrongdoing? So even when I'm actually correct and that I didn't do anything wrong, I'm being a dick for not being able to see that I was wrong for something I didn't do?

What the hell man.

I remember I told tornadium to chill out with some shitcurity or something once in deadchat and he told me to shut the fuck up and called me a stupid cunt, really really not sad to see him go

If I recall right you were being a cunt in OOC about something to someone, I called you out for being a cunt. You turned on admin mode and said something like you shouldn't say that because I'm an admin.

At which point I didn't care because you were being a cunt.

That's the only time I can remember saying anything like that to you.

If you can dig up what you're talking about in the logs it would be appreciated, Kinda hearsay until then.

[peoplearestrange]

Jesus christ dude, you need to step away from the computer for a bit, you're taking this way to personally. I mean obviously its a ban about you, but your taking as if we're degrading your actual real life person or something.

I think you need to chill out before you reply to this thread otherwise you might actually end up getting band off the back of the extreme bitterness coming from these threads right now.

[Tornadium]

Jesus christ dude, you need to step away from the computer for a bit, you're taking this way to personally. I mean obviously its a ban about you, but your taking as if we're degrading your actual real life person or something.

I think you need to chill out before you reply to this thread otherwise you might actually end up getting band off the back of the extreme bitterness coming from these threads right now.

Well when people throw lies and exaggerate in an attempt to slander am I just meant to ignore it?

[peoplearestrange]

No, of course not, thats not what I was suggesting. I was suggesting you read, you take in, you think, you wait. Then you reply in a calm and adult manor that will make people think about what they said and maybe change their minds. Rather than just reacting out of anger, which will probably only cause anger in return and further the drama.

[Shaps-cloud]

It wasn't a lie, iirc you were screaming about something in deadchat and I told you to chill out, then you flipped out on me. I was going to have dropped a short ban on you then and there but I knew you would throw a massive fit over it, just like you're doing now. I'd pull up the logs to show it but like fuck am I wasting time looking through a month of logs to show another example of your attitude when this thread sums it up so well

99.9% of the playerbase gets by just fine without causing massive shitstorms every month or so and getting multiple headmins to agree on rule 0 banning them. Maybe there's not some massive conspiracy out to get you, and the problem is just you

[Tornadium]

It wasn't a lie, iirc you were screaming about something in deadchat and I told you to chill out, then you flipped out on me. I was going to have dropped a short ban on you then and there but I knew you would throw a massive fit over it, just like you're doing now. I'd pull up the logs to show it but like fuck am I wasting time looking through a month of logs to show another example of your attitude when this thread sums it up so well

99.9% of the playerbase gets by just fine without causing massive shitstorms every month or so and getting multiple headmins to agree on rule 0 banning them. Maybe there's not some massive conspiracy out to get you, and the problem is just you

Two things,

I'll go look it up now. If I recall right you were being a serious cunt about something, Hence why I called you a cunt.

As for multiple headmins agreeing on anything, Loller and Jordie don't agree, they don't get why this is what triggered a Rule 0 ban. Also this shitstorm was caused by me making a post that disagreed with Ausops about a bit of policy, I didn't do anything to cause this.

[Screemonster]

See how can I possibly defend myself against posts like this.

Those bans would never have been lifted unless I didn't do anything wrong. You clearly haven't read those threads because in quite a few I admit to being wrong about aspects of the situation.

This is the thread I was referring to.

You argued to the last, until the thread was locked and you got slapped with a silicon ban, that you dindunuffinwrong despite literally everyone else in the thread telling that what you did was, in fact, a dick move. You argued subsection and clause of the rules while ignoring the bigger picture that whether there's a rule against it or not, it was still detrimental to people's enjoyment of the game.

I don't want to drag that thread up again, but this is an example of someone pointing at one example of you being a problem, and you immediately point at some other thread as an example of you being unfairly treated as if that somehow means the example actually being cited doesn't count.

[Tornadium]

See how can I possibly defend myself against posts like this.

Those bans would never have been lifted unless I didn't do anything wrong. You clearly haven't read those threads because in quite a few I admit to being wrong about aspects of the situation.

This is the thread I was referring to.

You argued to the last, until the thread was locked and you got slapped with a silicon ban, that you dindunuffinwrong despite literally everyone else in the thread telling that what you did was, in fact, a dick move. You argued subsection and clause of the rules while ignoring the bigger picture that whether there's a rule against it or not, it was still detrimental to people's enjoyment of the game.

I don't want to drag that thread up again, but this is an example of someone pointing at one example of you being a problem, and you immediately point at some other thread as an example of you being unfairly treated as if that somehow means the example actually being cited doesn't count.

And we had a discussion after that thread, Where it came out that it was less about what I did and more that I had pissed off enough people "getting out" of my previous bans (The ones in particular was the one where Scones was intentionally lying to keep me banned). I was encouraged to just take the ban or it'd cause a massive shitstorm in adminbus. Not every admin agreed with that decision. Some were actually about to quit if I didn't get hit with a ban, again a few select admins were encouraging just outright lying again and fabrication of logs to make ANYTHING they could stick.

So yeah you can probably understand why I was a littlebit pissed off during that.

[TheNightingale]

Undoubtedly some of the things you did shouldn't have resulted in bans (which is why they were overturned). However, you still did the things (they might not have been ruled banworthy after analysis, but they still happened) - and whilst placing one straw on a camel's back is fine... well, the last drop makes the cup run over. The cup is a metaphor for the ban, and the drops are the things you've done.

The ban itself is valid, since Rule 0 is literally just "I can ban you because even though you haven't broken the other rules, you're still a bad player", and evidence has been cited proving this (whether or not you believe the evidence is up to you).
What isn't valid is Ausops' reaction to your appeal and the admin complaints. Closing them is just immature - nobody is above reproach, not even the headmins. Whether or not the ban is okay, it's not okay to close your own admin complaints. That's called abuse of power, and it's not a good thing.

[Tornadium]

Undoubtedly some of the things you did shouldn't have resulted in bans (which is why they were overturned). However, you still did the things (they might not have been ruled banworthy after analysis, but they still happened) - and whilst placing one straw on a camel's back is fine... well, the last drop makes the cup run over. The cup is a metaphor for the ban, and the drops are the things you've done.

The ban itself is valid, since Rule 0 is literally just "I can ban you because even though you haven't broken the other rules, you're still a bad player", and evidence has been cited proving this (whether or not you believe the evidence is up to you).
What isn't valid is Ausops' reaction to your appeal and the admin complaints. Closing them is just immature - nobody is above reproach, not even the headmins. Whether or not the ban is okay, it's not okay to close your own admin complaints. That's called abuse of power, and it's not a good thing.

Yeah I get that, I can however still dispute it and argue my side of this.

Considering the ban was dropped with my notes cited as evidence I feel that it's still a fucking awful ban. The constant attempts to lie and fabricate excused to ban me, the attitude and actions of a select few admins in particular greatly contributed to what went on.

That's mostly why I'm even bothering to argue about it, Yeah all that shitstorm a few months ago made me look bad but I was the only one who looked bad. Not the people lying, not the people being sarcastic, not taking anything I said seriously, banning me so I couldn't defend myself etc.

You tell me how you would react if you had to beg one admin after another to go check logs to prove my innocence when 4-5 others would do everything possible to stop that happening, How would you react if people banned you, shit talked you and called you out for lying the instant you start trying to talk to someone?. Would you react well to it? I certainly didn't.

I just don't think it's fair that I'm held 100% accountable for what happened. I tried being civil a bunch of times and other admins did too. The select few, that being the people who have already spoken in the threads so far didn't even try. Not once.

[Jacough]

You tell me how you would react if you had to beg one admin after another to go check logs to prove my innocence when 4-5 others would do everything possible to stop that happening, How would you react if people banned you, shit talked you and called you out for lying the instant you start trying to talk to someone?

I'd do the nonautistic thing and go find another server to play on and get a fresh start instead of constantly crying and throwing tantrums to get back in a server where I'd probably be facing all that shit all over again in the near future.

Then again I pretty much exclusively play on here and haven't had that problem with a single admin in the time I've been here. Not even with Uhangi when he was an admin even though I remember there being some resentments between us. Maybe it's because I'm not constantly acting like I'm the victim whenever I get called out on something and actually hold myself accountable for my own actions when I do fuck up.

[Tornadium]

You tell me how you would react if you had to beg one admin after another to go check logs to prove my innocence when 4-5 others would do everything possible to stop that happening, How would you react if people banned you, shit talked you and called you out for lying the instant you start trying to talk to someone?

I'd do the nonautistic thing and go find another server to play on and get a fresh start instead of constantly crying and throwing tantrums to get back in a server where I'd probably be facing all that shit all over again in the near future.

Then again I pretty much exclusively play on here and haven't had that problem with a single admin in the time I've been here. Not even with Uhangi when he was an admin even though I remember there being some resentments between us. Maybe it's because I'm not constantly acting like I'm the victim whenever I get called out on something and actually hold myself accountable for my own actions when I do fuck up.

Having played on TG since 2010, I haven't had constant issues up until August.

My issues are also with a select few people.

[TheNightingale]

Jacough is right. Play on Bay (or Polaris), it's genuinely a pretty nice place. The administration is firm, and people don't misbehave as Securi--
... wait... okay, maybe Hippie or Goon, but the advice still stands. Your best hope for appealing the ban is to get positive character references from admins on other servers - people to vouch for you, "Hey, this guy is cool, let him play".

What do you think happened in August that started the chain of issues?

[Tornadium]

Jacough is right. Play on Bay (or Polaris), it's genuinely a pretty nice place. The administration is firm, and people don't misbehave as Securi--
... wait... okay, maybe Hippie or Goon, but the advice still stands. Your best hope for appealing the ban is to get positive character references from admins on other servers - people to vouch for you, "Hey, this guy is cool, let him play".

What do you think happened in August that started the chain of issues?

I already kinda went through it.

I pissed Scones and Saeg off by not backing down and accepting a ban that was unfair and kinda shitty.

Then they tried to make bans stick that were increasingly based on people misrepresenting what happened, lies and exaggerations in order to make things stick. Culminating in outright lies and presentation of edited logs when they tried to perma me.

[lollerderby]

This is probably less about the saegrimr/scones stuff and more about the silicon ban and the the dayban for killing the guy with the paper, and more specifically about how you dealt with them on forums.

Either way, rule zero ban, I'm locking and denying this complaint. Other one can stay open if anyone is particularly outraged about ausops closing his own complaints.