Byond account and character name: angelstarri, Duke Nukem
Admin: Ambassador Magikarp
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: Bagil, Friday 14th 1AM GMT
Detailed summary:
I found myself on playing on Bagil at the time of the incident. I spawned in as the lawyer and did my usual stuff - throw my jumpsuit off, yelled VIVA out in comms for good luck, gott my glasses and my jeans and got to strolling. I picked up some tools from the Primary Tool Storage in Delta, then went to the Cargo Bay to ask for a multi-tool. They didn't respond, so I started banging the airlock and it was then when a player using the identity of Donatello Versus (who on the previous round had harmbatoned me to the point of crit for a VERY minor offense) started tazing me.
(*snip - general radio comms and irrelevant stuff is removed for obvious reasons*)
*knocking on cargo airlock*
Duke Nukem is hit by a disabler beam in the chest!
Duke Nukem is hit by a disabler beam in the right leg!
The supply console is hit by a disabler beam!
You're too exhausted to keep going...
Duke Nukem is hit by a disabler beam in the chest!
Donatello Versus is trying to put handcuffs on Duke Nukem!
Donatello Versus has grabbed Duke Nukem passively!
[Common] Duke Nukem says, "HELP"
Duke Nukem says, "HELP"
Donatello Versus says, "Gotcha"
Duke Nukem says, "WHAT THE FUCK"
Duke Nukem is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Donatello Versus fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem says, "WHAT THE FUCK"
Duke Nukem says, "WHAT DID I DO"
Duke Nukem says, "WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO"
[Security] Duke Nukem says, "HELP THIS DONATELLO FAGGOT IS GRIFFING ME"
Duke Nukem is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Donatello Versus fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem stammers, "Let-t me g-go n-now"
*Donatello drags me to the brig, then to the permabrig*
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me right now what did I do wrong"
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me right now"
You're restrained! You can't move!
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me right now"
Donatello Versus says, "Play stupid games"
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me right now"
Donatello Versus says, "Win stupid prizes"
Duke Nukem says, "What game did I play"
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me what """'game""" did I play"
Duke Nukem says, "Tell me now"
Donatello Versus tries to put the prison jumpsuit on Duke Nukem.
Donatello Versus tries to put the orange shoes on Duke Nukem.
Donatello Versus has thrown the security radio headset.
Donatello Versus locks the brig locker.
Donatello Versus buckles you to the bed!
*initial adminhelp sent here, followed up later*
Donatello Versus asks, "Four or five?"
Duke Nukem says, "Let me go right now."
Duke Nukem says, "I didn't do anything."
Donatello Versus says, "Choose"
Donatello Versus says, "Four or five"
Duke Nukem says, "Let me go right now."
Donatello Versus says, "Four or five bitch"
Donatello Versus says, "Choose"
Duke Nukem says, "Let me go right now."
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus tries to remove Duke Nukem's handcuffs.
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus puts the stunbaton into the security belt.
At this point I'm getting suspicious of an OOC metagrudge, so I call in an admin to resolve the situation. Magi responded asking me for more details, to which the following conversation occurred:
INITIAL ADMINHELP:
PM to-Admins: Donatello Versus is namegrudging me.
Admin PM from-Ambassador Magikarp: What went on, what'd he do to you? Could you elaborate?
PM to-Admins: Last round he harmbatonned me around 10 times, this round he raced to find me, found me banging on an airlock and tased me and threw me in permabrig for absolutely no reason.
While Magi is investigating, I raise a paper to the AI to let me out, which it does; the Warden then comes in and the following happens:
You hold the paper up to the camera...
Duke Nukem has thrown the paper.
Duke Nukem has thrown the pen.
Duke Nukem says, "Jesus christ time dilation"
Duke Nukem says, "Hey warden"
Duke Nukem says, "That faggot Donatello locked me in here for no reason"
Duke Nukem says, "Can I get my shit back please"
Duke Nukem points to the brig locker
Roy Prevatt says, "No."
Duke Nukem says, "Why not"
Duke Nukem says, "Why not"
Roy Prevatt says, "Wait there."
Duke Nukem says, "Why not"
Duke Nukem says, "Why not"
*the warden leaves back to the brig at this point, i'm left walking around the brig hallway*
Duke Nukem has thrown the prison jumpsuit.
Duke Nukem says, "TIME DILATION LEAVE"
You start dumping out the contents...
You need a jumpsuit before you can attach this flash!
You are unable to equip that!
*donatello sees me on the airlocks leading to the permabrig, then gets his taser out and starts firing*
Donatello Versus fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem is hit by a disabler beam in the chest!
Donatello Versus fires the hybrid taser!
Donatello Versus fires the hybrid taser!
*at this point I want to defend myself from pretty bad shitcurity, so I disarm him and shoot him a few times*
Duke Nukem has disarmed Donatello Versus!
Duke Nukem fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem fires the hybrid taser!
Donatello Versus has thrown the flashbang.
Roy Prevatt has been hit by the flashbang.
Duke Nukem fires the hybrid taser!
Roy Prevatt fires the hybrid taser!
Duke Nukem is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Brandon Richers has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Duke Nukem stammers, "WH-HAT T-T-THE F-F-F-FUC-C-CK-K"
Brandon Richers puts the stunbaton into the security belt.
[Common] Hugbox states, "Freon ended"
Duke Nukem stammers, "W-WH-HY-Y IS-S HE SH-HOOT-TIN-NG-G-G ME"
BANG
Your eyes sting a little.
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Brandon Richers puts the stunbaton into the security belt.
Donatello Versus has beaten Duke Nukem in the right arm with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has beaten Duke Nukem in the right arm with the stunbaton!
Brandon Richers is trying to put handcuffs on Duke Nukem!
Edward Sloan has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
You can't hear yourself!
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has stunned you with the stunbaton!
You can't hear yourself!
Donatello Versus has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Edward Sloan has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has beaten Duke Nukem in the chest with the stunbaton!
You can't hear yourself!
Edward Sloan has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Donatello Versus has stunned you with the stunbaton!
Duke Nukem has died at Prison Wing.
At this point I'm very upset at how things turned out, to which I adminhelp again:
ADMINHELP #2:
DEAD: ADMIN(Ambassador Magikarp) says, "you got killed for breaking out of perma which is aight but viva thing's a bit harsh"
DEAD: ADMIN(Ambassador Magikarp) says, "though you shouldve expected it"
Admin PM from-Ambassador Magikarp: It's pretty harsh but at the end you walked into it. You have to understand that if you decide to piss on a hornet's nest, you're going to rile them up. Trying to swat them will only make it worse
PM to-Admins: how the fuck did i walk into it?
PM to-Admins: please explain because i do not fucking understand
DEAD: ADMIN(Ambassador Magikarp) says, "gross oversimplification and the perma was a bit excess yeah but dude what did you expect when you tried to attack sec after being put in perma "
Admin PM from-Ambassador Magikarp: Like I said, you broke out of perma and fucked with sec after you got placed in the brig/perma. Dont be surprised if they kill you at that point. I agree though that the perma was excessive but the same thing would've happened with most other brig sentences and you were asking for it by screaming viva roundstart to try to be funny
PM to-Admins: the fucking AI let me out, and then when i was on the hallway waiting for the warden to come back after asking him for my shit back donatello came blasting in, i defended myself by disarming him and he gets all the right to fucking kill me? are you fucking serious?
Admin PM from-Ambassador Magikarp: Like I said, your perma was excessive but that's where it ends after you tried to tase someone. The nature of combat in this game makes stuns=death
PM to-Admins: get another admin
Admin PM from-Ambassador Magikarp: Sure feel free
At this point I'm pretty upset that the whole issue is dismissed with the excuse of "you were killed because you escaped the brig and tased someone". No, it doesn't work that way - at least I'm pretty positive about it. First off, the initial situation and what derived from it sparked from nothing, which fires against the obvious rule of Don't be a dick. My round experience was completely ruined by a player who was in his more powerful shitcurity mood and was dealt with a pat in the back, to which players being treated by other admins and moderators have been dealt with harshly for less serious offenses.
Second of all, the Security's escalation of force was complete shit, and it shows - responding with harmbatons and death to someone who had walked away from the brig and was naked aside from the taser he got off an officer seconds ago is unacceptable regarding the standards Security supposedly is held to in administrative levels. Like I said, players have been dealt with harshly for less serious offenses, quoting specifically Security Policy & Precedents #1, #3 and #4.
And finally, I find it very upsetting that the issue was just dismissed as just that, and I would have liked for another course of action to have been taken given how the rules are laid out. If every admin can have a different interpretation of them, then what's the point of having them?
Earlier yesterday I asked a couple admins what to do in case someone tried to act like a rev. As you do know, usually people that tide like this break shit or just become a nuisance. You were set to be arrested and I was walking to cargo (my assigned department) when I saw you. They said they could get the shit beaten out of them to get the revelry they wanted.
Since I felt lenient I just tossed you into perma. Note that you knew this would happen, that everyone was warned that admins had ruled this could be retaliated against, and you decided to still poke that hornet nest.
Later on we got reports of a cult or traitor (if I remember correctly) and you had broken out of your cell. I ran back in to leave you inside again, but you decided to escalate it and try to shoot me. Bad move, HoS saw you and frankly everyone was tired of your shit so we just decided to harm baton you. You frankly were being a pain in the ass across various rounds, and you repeated the actions that got you arrested in each.
Show the logs all you want, you screamed Viva first before being arrested.
[Security] Duke Nukem says, "HELP THIS DONATELLO FAGGOT IS GRIFFING ME"
You're a faggot.
Anyways, related stuff: I was the HoS that round. You broke out of perma after being placed there for "inciting a riot", which is defined as trying to start a mutiny. I didn't place you there, but I agreed with the officer's reasoning. After breaking out, you stunned the officer possibly with the intent to kill. We stunned and killed you because perma is the equivalent of execution, just the asimov safe version. So we killed you for breaking out during your perma sentence. Ambassador handled the situation well and so did my officers.
Despite that, i think Magikarp acted appropriately, little evidence to show that it was metagruding, other then him catching you out front of his department (well assigned security department).
Last edited by RescueRanger on Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
After getting brigged you tased an officer that placed you in perma. I already told you I agreed that the perma was in poor taste and was almost about to pm sec about the overkill but are you surprised they killed you after you disarmed them, shot at security, and attempted to break out of perma? I left it as ic because of your ic actions. Though you shouldn't be surprised while faking x antagonist that you are treated like x antagonist as much as i dislike the thought process behind that.
Act like antagonist get treated like one. You acted like a rev, we treated you generously compared to how a real rev would be treated. "VIVA" radio spam is not funny, was never funny, and will never be funny.
So what did they actually /DO/ besides say "Viva", which alone is not warranting of a perma sentence?
Like what was the indicator to Repukan that said "Oh this guy is just a shitler", because I'm not really seeing anything of note that would be comparable to the incident in which I spoke to you in where the pseudo rev actually ended up killing an officer.
They had been doing copious amounts of shit across various rounds. In fact before the round started, they participated in a conversation regarding "How hard would you go on people that fake rev roundstart."
To reiterate, they didn't get arrested for what they did in previous rounds. When they were found and arrested, I saw them with no ID, a sec headset and banging on cargo. Until he spoke I didn't even figure out he was Duke, but was gladly surprised after.
Since heads and sec were busy with something else (can't remember if it was a cult or traitor round) we just gave the rev wannabe the treatment he wanted.
Also I'm gonna go on a bigger tangent here that is only marginally related, but the stupid administration desire of wanting to push metabreaks both icly and oocly leads to entire rounds being sidelined and horrible escalation being spawned because now people can act like a mob antag and expect no retaliation from security. We've had a blob round earlier as well and we had people attacking the captain for no good reason.
If the administration doesn't feel like fixing what is a problem of rampant shitters then don't expect those that have to deal with it to have a saint's restraint. This shit is getting to the point it is right now because it was left to fester and wallow in its own.
D&B wrote:Also I'm gonna go on a bigger tangent here that is only marginally related, but the stupid administration desire of wanting to push metabreaks both icly and oocly leads to entire rounds being sidelined and horrible escalation being spawned because now people can act like a mob antag and expect no retaliation from security. We've had a blob round earlier as well and we had people attacking the captain for no good reason.
If the administration doesn't feel like fixing what is a problem of rampant shitters then don't expect those that have to deal with it to have a saint's restraint. This shit is getting to the point it is right now because it was left to fester and wallow in its own.
Make a policy thread and sort your thoughts. This tangent comes off as a rant and I can't make heads or tails out of what you're actually complaining about. In either case, it doesn't really have much to do with the real complaint so why is it posted here?
D&B wrote:They had been doing copious amounts of shit across various rounds. In fact before the round started, they participated in a conversation regarding "How hard would you go on people that fake rev roundstart."
To reiterate, they didn't get arrested for what they did in previous rounds. When they were found and arrested, I saw them with no ID, a sec headset and banging on cargo. Until he spoke I didn't even figure out he was Duke, but was gladly surprised after.
Since heads and sec were busy with something else (can't remember if it was a cult or traitor round) we just gave the rev wannabe the treatment he wanted.
4. Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
It's possible the perma sentence was too harsh and Magikarp was seemingly about to look into that when you decided to escalate things IC. Of the things that security can be blamed for, automatically jumping to defend themselves when they are attacked is not one of them, especially when they're not expected to listen to you and take your side of the story into account while you try to fight them.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
There's no "it's possible" about it, it's like cremating someone for saying ";g absorbing AI" at roundstart. Which is a shitty joke that got old years ago but that isn't the point. I don't see why the permabrigging issue would be completely dropped after the OP got killed(Security did nothing wrong in killing him).
Because I have second thoughts about requiring security players or any player really, to treat a player griffing as if it was their virginal first time griefing ever and escalate bit by bit rather than just shutting it down right then and there. Obviously this runs into issues where we can't actually trust the playerbase not to take this as an excuse to metagrudge and do worse but maybe, just maybe, angelstarri was in fact being a shitter across rounds and repukan despite his propensity to jump to extremes, was justified.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
or maybe I'm tired of people who might have had a reasonable complaint but jump to handling things IC while an admin is looking into something and then complain when they lose, thinking the rules allow them to hit back when their robustness couldn't. Maybe I'm inclined to view people who get arrested and immediately scream about being griffed in a bad way. I've done some soul-searching just now and I think that's where my attitude to this thread is coming from.
Tricky, because repukan has a history of doing these things and I don't like it because I've had to deal with it. But players who scream viva and then scream about being griffed when arrested don't really have a place on this server either. Sure, magikarp should have pressed on with the matter but I am going to chalk it up this time to inexperience and hope he checks the history of people involved in an investigation because it really is relevant sometimes.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.
