Darkgenerallord

[Jembo]

Post Content:
Byond account and character name: Jembo - Josh Morris
Admin:Darkgenerallord
Bagil 2017-07-10 04:06:36 | 2017-08-01 02:45:32
Detailed summary: I noticed a trend with my last two interaction with Darkgenerallord that he likes to hold some people to the rules while not others. I normally wouldn't make a complaint as I rarely have time for ss13 but I had other friends who still play complain about how he admins.

2017 -07 - 10
On this event two players that were piggieback riding attempting to break into science. Myself and a fellow scientist closed the shutters as they continued to break the window leading inside. Eventually the HoS ran in, to help himself to science goods and the two ran inside making a mess of everything. I told them to leave and the HoS attempted to remove them but was called off to deal with something else. I at the time was spamming disarm on them in an attempt to help him remove these people. One of them began to hit me with a pottedplant, so I returned the favor as I tolerated them in the lab long enough. At this time I was only punching the person who began to assault me, to which I picked up a fire extinguisher and got into a long drawn out brawl with him. The chaplain who also find his way into science kept bibling him to full health while I was beating on him. I at this time did not attacked the chaplain, or the other person as they weren't harming me. The other scientist eventually got the guy into a choke hold and held him down for me to finish him off. To which the chaplain began to null rod me, so seeing as he was helping the person trying to potentially kill me and now attacking me I finished him off. Another note that the chaplain didn't do anything like disarm me, or heal me during the fight he just kept healing the person I was attacking for attacking me. I end up killing the chaplain and the piggieback rider then begins to start punching me so I give them the same treatment. I was going to borg them after doing this as I didn't want to remove them from the round, yet I feared if I cloned them they'd just try to get revenge on me.

Darkgenerallord then starts to get into an argument taking no a neutral stance but one where I was guilty of murdering three players who weren't doing anything wrong. I told him they broke into my department and made no attempt to leave, sec left and was too busy to handle other situation so I had to take care of it myself. He seemed completely determined to wanna ban me for defending myself in my workplace. So I explained to him what happened, while shooting information about events that he didn't witness but made assumptions. The chaplain didn't do anything wrong, he was trying to deescalate the fight and drag the guy away for example . Which didn't happen at all during the fight, he only healed my attacker over and over again making it that much harder to deal with him. Then he said that I couldn't borg them that it was going too far and that I had to clone them. Which doesn't make any sense as these people entered my work place and started attacking me I have no obligation to get the cloned just so they can get revenge. But I conceded that fact and rebrained and began to take them all to genetics to get cloned. The whole event left a sour taste in my mouth, as I know I didn't do anything wrong and was still being treated as the badguy. He ended up leaving me with a note, and told me to go to the forums if I wanted it removed.

I do not have logs of these events.


2017-08-01 02:45:32 OOC in IC

Though the round people were screaming on the radio as well as to each other that it was OPS, as well as traitor, and ling. Being that I actually found traitor items, as well as witnessed a changeling eat someone. I responded on the radio it's not OPs. It's traitors and lings. This ended up with a long drawn out admin ping from Darkgenerallord which in my own eyes didn't lead anywhere, as I'm sure they'll agree. My main complaint with this is that a ton of people were doing this throughout the round yet throughout the admin ping he confessed only to messaging me and one other person about it. I view that as complete bullshit, if you're going to hold something to a standard you need to hold the whole server accountable. Then the argument went to the other people didn't break the rules you broke them because of your phrasing. To which I have full round logs and can show every single person who broke that rule that he decided to ignore. Regardless this whole situation seemed like nitpicking about something that people on /tg/ have been doing for as long as I can remember. :g absorbing the AI, AI's rogue blow the clown, so on and so on.

Common] Luck says, "Im rev"
[Common] Kerbin Fiber says, "VIVA"
[Common] Madra Tossilan says, "ITS A TRATORLING MEME"
[Common] Luck says, "Im ling"
[Common] Madra Tossilan yells, "OPS!!"
[Common] Helen Weinstein yells, "OPS CONFIRMED SHIT!!"
[Common] Adolf Hitlerstien says, "I doubt it is ops"
That's an implanter (EMP).
[Common] Madra Tossilan says, "OPSS"
[Common] Madra Tossilan yells, "ITS FUCKING OPS!!"
[Common] Maxwell Vill says, "Ops"
[Common] Luck says, "WE HAVE NO PS"
[Common] Luck says, "Ops"
[Common] Josh Morris says, "It's not ops"
Josh Morris says, "It's not ops"
[Common] Josh Morris says, "We got traitors and lings"
Josh Morris says, "We got traitors and lings"
[Common] Chen says, "HAYTHEM TRAITOR"

And his response to me pointing this out
PM to-Admins: And not the player who screamed OPS? which is meta information and throwing away from the round type
PM to-Admins: Because I ICly saw someone with traitor gear, an IMP injector, as well as ICly saw someone eat someon a changeling
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Darkgenerallord: You are allowed to know all of the antagonists. You are not allowed to refer to the round type directly, which is what I took action on.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: And when someone responds with WE have OPS that's not refering to a game mod directly?
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Darkgenerallord: 'We have operatives' is referring to "We have nuclear operatives on board', more or less. 'It's ops' is referring directly to the round type.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: And what would the short term word for Nuclear Operatives be?
PM to-Admins: And isn't that still refering to the game mode Nuclear Operatives?
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Darkgenerallord: It's like saying 'there's a revolution' instead of 'it's rev'. One is saying there are revolutionaries on board, the other is /directly referring to the gamemode/. I'm sorry, I'm just following policy.
Click on the administrator's name to reply.
PM to-Admins: So you're complain isn't about people calling out game modes, it's about people calling out an aberviation of a game mode.
PM to-Admins: There is 0 difference between the two and letting one slide while not letting the other is a joke.

[oranges]

considering it's bannable to say its cult or its rev, this should also be bannable right?

[Jembo]

2. If you are not an admin or directly involved with the complaint (You are the guy who was banned, you saw what happened, you were his victim, etc.) then do not post in the complaint.

[Darkgenerallord]

Okay, let's start this off. I don't have logs for the first thing, so we may just have to go off memory, but there might be a less horrible way to find logs than just going through every round that day?

The first situation started with Sawyer Glover (QM I think), Sam Hyde (Chaplain.), and John, the assistant. They follow somebody in, Sawyer throws a potted plant at the HoS, HoS tasers them, HoS leaves. You begin hitting Sawyer with a potted plant (or an extinquisher? I think it was extinquisher due to the note), not asking them to leave, etc. Eventually you beat down Sawyer to crit, neither of the other two interfere. Sam starts to biblethump Sawyer once it's made clear you're not just critting him - I think you kept hitting him past crit, to like -50 HP or so. He does this a couple times, you run at him (?), he hits you with a null rod once. You beat him to crit, continue beating past crit, the assistant (John) steps in. As far as I remember it was a couple disarms, a couple punches. You beat him to crit, beat all three of them to death.

1. You started the fight, you never asked them to leave, etc.

2. If you had just critted them and tossed them out to Medbay, this probably wouldn't have been a problem. The overescalation note was due to the fact you started the fight without any warning, never asked them to leave, and when you subdued all of them, you instead just tried to borg them all after beating them to death.

Most of this is based off the details in the note itself, as well as my memory on it.

For the second situation: I have seen game admins and other trial admins PM to not say 'IT'S REVS' etc. Similarly, :g absorbing the AI /is/ something that is PMable for OOC in IC. I only dealt with what I saw (Namely you two) due to juggling both servers and multiple tickets. I eventually resolved the ticket and just placed the note because it didn't seem to be going anywhere, and moved on to what I viewed as higher priority tickets, since I was juggling around five or six tickets, at the time. I was more or less just dealing with what was ahelped, or I noticed while clicking in.

[ohnopigeons]

2. If you are not an admin or directly involved with the complaint (You are the guy who was banned, you saw what happened, you were his victim, etc.) then do not post in the complaint.

THE AN0N3 AMENDMENT IS IN EFFECT

Adding to/adjusting the definitions so that players can post in a thread regarding something they weren't involved in, IF IT IS TO BRING UP/POINT TO/HIGHLIGHT a rule, precedent, or piece of evidence that was missed that is relevant to the situation.

This does NOT include:
"This happened to me once and I didn't get banned for it" or the reverse "This happened to me once and I got banned for it."
"My opinion is…" or "I feel like…"

This WOULD cover:
"Rule 3 says…"
"These admins have always allowed…"
"Actually in the logs it says…"

This would allow players who are invested in the rules, have the experience, and can conduct themselves well to advocate in threads.

[Jembo]

Okay, let's start this off. I don't have logs for the first thing, so we may just have to go off memory, but there might be a less horrible way to find logs than just going through every round that day?

The first situation started with Sawyer Glover (QM I think), Sam Hyde (Chaplain.), and John, the assistant. They follow somebody in, Sawyer throws a potted plant at the HoS, HoS tasers them, HoS leaves. You begin hitting Sawyer with a potted plant (or an extinquisher? I think it was extinquisher due to the note), not asking them to leave, etc. Eventually you beat down Sawyer to crit, neither of the other two interfere. Sam starts to biblethump Sawyer once it's made clear you're not just critting him - I think you kept hitting him past crit, to like -50 HP or so. He does this a couple times, you run at him (?), he hits you with a null rod once. You beat him to crit, continue beating past crit, the assistant (John) steps in. As far as I remember it was a couple disarms, a couple punches. You beat him to crit, beat all three of them to death.

1. You started the fight, you never asked them to leave, etc.

2. If you had just critted them and tossed them out to Medbay, this probably wouldn't have been a problem. The overescalation note was due to the fact you started the fight without any warning, never asked them to leave, and when you subdued all of them, you instead just tried to borg them all after beating them to death.

That is incorrect I was spamming disarm on the person clubbing me with a plant in my own department. Secondly they broke a window to try breaking in earlier and we had to put the shutters down to keep them out. Then after Sawyer started attacking me, he never once made an attempt to escape or to de-escalate the situation even though he was trespassing and he hit me with a plant for disarming him. You would have 100% banned me if I attacked any of them first in the logs I am certain of that. Also yes, when people break into my department make a mess and respond to disarms with assault I'm going to make sure they don't kill me and do XYZ to me after I'm dead. The reason that this is a double standard is the QM shouldn't of been breaking windows outside of science, shouldn't of came into science and shouldn't of attacked me for trying to remove him with disarms. The only reason I even have this note is because I was robust enough to defend myself from people who were grey tiding.

[Qbopper]

Reading through the OP, I don't want to comment on the rest of the complaint, but regarding the OOC in IC - you will 100% lose this argument and it's best you don't even try to file a complaint over it. It has always been and will continue to be policy that you can't OOC in IC, and yes, "it's ops" or "it's revs" counts. Judging by your PM logs, I can see that you're one of the many people who doesn't understand the problem, so I'll try to break it down

"it's revs" = "it [the game type of the round] is revs [the game type revolutionaries]"

"there are revs" = "there are rev(olutionarie)s on the station"

same with ops

"it's ops"/"it's not ops" = "it [the game type of the round] is ops [the game type nuke ops]"/"it [the game type of the round] is not ops [the game type nuke ops]"

"there are ops"/"there are no ops" = "there are nuclear operatives on the station"/"there are no nuclear operatives on the station"

Do you see the difference? One of these is clearly not like the other, and they both use the short forms of the antag type. The issue isn't over the abbreviation - literally no one cares about that - it's the fact that you are directly addressing the fact that this is a videogame and the gamemode IC. You can think it's a retarded rule that makes no sense if you really refuse to listen, but it's something that everybody has to abide by, and it's always been this way.

For the second situation: I have seen game admins and other trial admins PM to not say 'IT'S REVS' etc. Similarly, :g absorbing the AI /is/ something that is PMable for OOC in IC.

I just realized that you're technically right about absorbing the AI being OOC in IC, but it makes me laugh every time I see it

[bman]

I was John, all I did was ride on the back of the QM who barged into science and memed on Sloan with a potted plant, so Sloan tased him and gave him a fiery harmbaton . Sawyer got dropped so I went off him and kind of stood on my own watching the fight (they still hit me though wew), after Sawyer was critted the robo/scientist (forgot) INSISTED on killing the guy and even hit me every time I approached to try and go drag him to go to medbay, then the chap interfered so he killed the chap, I fought after that but I was already weakened so rip (oh yeah I was also John Diagonal so it's hard to punch while in that state)

I disconnected then came back and found out that he fucking brained everyone including the chap, I waited for a while during which he did nothing so I just ghosted and left to go play somewhere else.

basically one guy provoked him so he went to extreme lengths to kill this dude to the point of killing anyone who tries to stop him (hell i was gonna just drag him and leave), then debraining everyone involved wew.

[Darkgenerallord]

I went and got the logs.

You disarmed once, grab the potted plant, and then started hitting John. Sawyer starts hitting back, Sam starts healing you. Eventually Sam starts healing Sawyer for some reason, you eventually crit him while also taking a couple swings at John Diagonal. John didn't actually fight in any way at this point. Sam avoids healing Sawyer once he hits crit, but you keep swinging the extinguisher and he hits you with a null rod once. You crit Sam for this, and then John starts punching a bit after. You eventually crit John, and then beat the three of them to death and go off to Robotics to debrain them.

So yes, you did start the fight, and you did not tell them to leave in any way. I was watching at least the very beginning of this, as far as I could tell all they did was hit the HoS with a potted plant HoS once or twice and then you started swinging. You mentioned another scientist chokeholding them but I'm fairly sure that's logged, and I'm not seeing anything relating to it.

[bman]

I can testify that the other sci chokehold thing happened.

edit: just to be fair for all parties involved

[Darkgenerallord]

Fair enough, just wasn't seeing it in the logs. Might be a bug?

[bandit]

More seriously addressing the complaint: In a lot of cases where "admins are punishing me for this but X, Y and Z did it too!" it's not that admins are deliberately treating you differently but that the admins simply did not see it. Chat goes incredibly fast and it is easy to miss instances of OOC in IC as they don't exactly jump out at you from the scroll. To catch it you either have to be paying very close attention to the chat and doing nothing else, or someone else has to ahelp it.

[NikNakFlak]

All that bullshit OOC in IC meme roundstart stuff is literally such cancer.
Iteq is one of the worst offenders for this and has been warned multiple times and banned in the past for it but it looks like he hasn't learned a single thing from these.

[John_Oxford]

>banning someone for spoofing a antag

there is no precedent for that, thats a sole instance

[kevinz000]

>banning someone for spoofing a antag

there is no precedent for that, thats a sole instance

please don't comment on this unless you actually understand the situation because i already can tell you do not.

[Jembo]

I don't know D&B

[D&B]

What did he mean by this

[Jembo]

So just a few points I'd like to clarify on these logs don't include any environmental damage I.E. To the Science department, choke logs, or alt click dragging logs. They also don't include any talking by MMI's or borgs. But they do contain my reply to them breaking the windows outside of science to get inside.

SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: Hey
2897 [03:37:59] 126,58,2 EMOTE: (purple baby slime (845)): The purple baby slime (845) bounces in place.
2898 [03:37:59] 100,104,2 SAY: Cristin Matthews/Names Are Hard: ow!
2899 [03:37:59] 89,68,2 EMOTE: DMaillo/(Sam Hyde): Sam Hyde gasps!
2900 [03:38:00] 111,104,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: Cut that out

They didn't respond, and even though we closed the shutters to prevent them from entering they both came inside anyway after breaking the windows. I clearly didn't want them in science but that didn't stop them from wordless entering.

3037 [03:39:16] ATTACK: Josh Morris(jembo) disarmed Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with removing the potted plant (NEWHP: 68)

Another note I was on disarm intent as this is my first combat log for the round. Another note this is exactly what I was witnessing happening to the HoS from two silent players inside my department.

2916 [03:38:11] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) attacked Tam Lin(borisvanmemes) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91)
2917 [03:38:12] 111,104,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: That's rude2925 [03:38:15] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) attacked Edward Sloan(beesting12) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 94)
2926 [03:38:15] ATTACK: Dom Johnson(bombpants) fired at Vaarsuvius Weatherwax(subie) with The electrode Research and Development (NEWHP: 77.5)2928 [03:38:16] 111,106,2 SAY: Vaarsuvius Weatherwax/Subie: SCYAR NILA VAULT
2929 [03:38:16] ATTACK: Dom Johnson(bombpants) fired at floor with The electrode Research Division
2930 [03:38:17] 114,109,2 SAY: Sam Hyde/DMaillo: Wizard rnd
2936 [03:38:21] 115,100,2 SAY: Dom Johnson/Bombpants: wiz sci
2938 [03:38:21] 112,100,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: Valut
2939 [03:38:22] 112,100,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: He's at the v ault
2940 [03:38:23] 130,128,2 SAY: Tam Lin/Borisvanmemes: i do have a gun
2944 [03:38:27] 111,100,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: He went to the vault
2949 [03:38:29] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) attacked Sam Hyde(dmaillo) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 85)
2956 [03:38:32] 111,100,2 SAY: Josh Morris/Jembo: He teleported to the vault
2961 [03:38:36] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) attacked Edward Sloan(beesting12) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: GRAB) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88)
2962 [03:38:37] ATTACK: Dom Johnson(bombpants) attacked Dom Johnson(bombpants) with potato battery(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 94.75)
2965 [03:38:38] ATTACK: Dom Johnson(bombpants) attacked Dom Johnson(bombpants) with potato battery(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 91.75)
2969 [03:38:39] ATTACK: Edward Sloan(beesting12) shot Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with The electrode (NEWHP: 88)
2970 [03:38:39] ATTACK: Edward Sloan(beesting12) fired at floor with The electrode Research and Development
2979 [03:38:45] ATTACK: Edward Sloan(beesting12) attacked Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 78)
2982 [03:38:46] ATTACK: Edward Sloan(beesting12) attacked Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 68)
3002 [03:38:55] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit Edward Sloan(beesting12) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 80.2)
3005 [03:38:57] ATTACK: Edward Sloan(beesting12) fired at floor with The electrode Research and Development
3009 [03:38:59] ATTACK: BE.BOOP(runian) flashed Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with The flash (NEWHP: 68)
3010 [03:39:00] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit BE.BOOP(runian) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 86.5)
3012 [03:39:01] 111,102,2 SAY: Edward Sloan/BeeSting12: reee
3015 [03:39:03] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit Edward Sloan(beesting12) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 72.4)
3018 [03:39:06] 111,102,2 SAY: Edward Sloan/BeeSting12: Where is the wizard
3019 [03:39:06] 214,143,2 SAY: LEGION/Mikeike545: wizard is in the vault

BE.BOOP wasn't a borg but another scientist oddly enough just a heads up. The one who choke held Sawyer later on.

This is what I witnessed before I saw the HoS run off and leave these two wordless plant bashing greytiders in science for anyone but him to deal with. So don't act like this was a simple case of they walked in and I started murdering them. Yes I was on disarm intent, yes I got a lucky disarm and accidentally pick up the full sprite sized plant and was hitting them.

3037 [03:39:16] ATTACK: Josh Morris(jembo) disarmed Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with removing the potted plant (NEWHP: 68)
3042 [03:39:20] ATTACK: Josh Morris(jembo) attacked John Diagonal(basilman) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 80)
3043 [03:39:20] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) disarmed Josh Morris(jembo) with removing the potted plant (NEWHP: 91)
3044 [03:39:21] ATTACK: Josh Morris(jembo) disarmed John Diagonal(basilman) with removing the offhand (NEWHP: 80)
3048 [03:39:23] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) attacked Josh Morris(jembo) with potted plant (Wielded)(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 81)
3052 [03:39:25] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit Josh Morris(jembo) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 68)
3060 [03:39:32] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit Josh Morris(jembo) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 55)
3062 [03:39:38] ATTACK: Sawyer Glover(redlobster) hit Josh Morris(jembo) with The potted plant (NEWHP: 43.3)
3065 [03:39:42] ATTACK: Josh Morris(jembo) attacked Sawyer Glover(redlobster) with upgraded industrial welding tool(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 53)

At this point in the fight we moved from the RnD lab to the internal science hallway that leads to toxins and xenobio. To which we see the chaplain who was just hanging bible me first, must of missed in the the wave of red text of a potted plant slamming into my face. Basically this fight was a complete shit show, Four people running around the hallway two trying to beat each other to death, one trying to heal and then after one of the combatants died trying to kill the survivor with a null rod. I will give credit to John, as well that I did end up hitting him a few times by accident as he was riding piggieback and kept rather close to the fight. But at the end rather than walking off or dragging away the dead which he didn't do or attempt to do. He walked up and started punching me. Nobody said anything during this fight, nobody tried to run away. So why am I being called out as the guilty party.


A few things I'd like to ask, why isn't this an IC issue? Why is borging suddenly bad, it's always been a less popular alternative to cloning but still an alternative. I would of had all three back in the round faster if Dark didn't threaten me that I had to clone them. Why was their bad behavior earlier overlooked completely, which directly lead to my actions.

Reading through the OP, I don't want to comment on the rest of the complaint, but regarding the OOC in IC - you will 100% lose this argument and it's best you don't even try to file a complaint over it. It has always been and will continue to be policy that you can't OOC in IC, and yes, "it's ops" or "it's revs" counts. Judging by your PM logs, I can see that you're one of the many people who doesn't understand the problem, so I'll try to break it down

[Common] Helen Weinstein yells, "OPS CONFIRMED SHIT!!"
[Common] Adolf Hitlerstien says, "I doubt it is ops"
[Common] Maxwell Vill says, "Ops"
[Common] Luck says, "WE HAVE NO PS"
[Common] Luck says, "Ops" [/quote]

I was directly responding to these claims. Why weren't the other people contacted? Dark stated he contacted multiply people over this but in reality only messaged one.

You can think it's a retarded rule that makes no sense if you really refuse to listen, but it's something that everybody has to abide by, and it's always been this way.

That is not correct, as we used to have players yelling valid over the radio at each other. Which was dialed back, just like the l33t speak and other things. People yelling out for the wizard to summon guns so they can be survivors. You're going to have to retrain players to break multi year long habits and in jokes Memes if you will. So 2d spess men can be more immersive? Regardless of the point The issue was I was responding to another player, so why weren't the players I was responding to messaged and only myself?

More seriously addressing the complaint: In a lot of cases where "admins are punishing me for this but X, Y and Z did it too!" it's not that admins are deliberately treating you differently but that the admins simply did not see it. Chat goes incredibly fast and it is easy to miss instances of OOC in IC as they don't exactly jump out at you from the scroll. To catch it you either have to be paying very close attention to the chat and doing nothing else, or someone else has to ahelp it.

In the admin PM's himself, he told me he didn't have an issue with any of the above messages as they were in the proper phrasing which if you're reading the same thing I am they're not, according the rules. But he doubled down on this fact in the adminpms .Also yes there was mild confusion about this phrasing he was bringing up. Especially when I can easily scroll up and see posts like that in my log that he's 100% okay with, but not mine.

As I though some new rule was passed where you weren't allowed to spoil the round type by screaming antagonists types over the radio. As all they told me was it was OOC in IC. Which while correct is vague enough to lead me though the misunderstanding that what he was implying during the argument was you're not allowed to spoil round types over the radio if you don't have IC knowledge. Spoiling the round type would be the same as saying OPS, as it would be saying We have a Nuclear Emergency. As you might not understand this but the game mode isn't Nuke ops or Ops it's Nuclear Emergency. As you can read the admin PMs and see almost the whole conversation is over this misunderstanding.

[BeeSting12]

As the HoS in the first case, I'd like to mention that we had a wizard at that point and I had to deal with it, which is more high priority than two assistants in science that are tossing potted plants. Another precedent we've had to the best of my knowledge is that breaking into a deptartment offers you up to the department's services so I don't see an issue with borging.

[Darkgenerallord]

I still personally believe you overescalated in the name of department defense, but I don't think we're going to get much further by arguing the same points over and over. I'll just wait for a headmin ruling, and if they say I've fucked up, then I fucked up and will act accordingly.

[Owegno]

Another precedent we've had to the best of my knowledge is that breaking into a deptartment offers you up to the department's services so I don't see an issue with borging.

This applies to them breaking in again being thrown out. Not for the first break-in.

You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.

[bman]

edit: deleted post there's too much conflict in the world whatever forget abou it

[imblyings]

Feel welcome to crit people if they break in, mess around, and you've got no reasonable access to stun/cuff gear, and if they succumb while you toss them into a public area where someone can reasonably take them to cloning, that's ok too. Situations vary too much for hard rulings but this is an adequate course of action in a first case department trespass situation. What isn't ok is things like hiding the bodies, removing them from the round permanently, or borging them, unless they're doing something very griffy e.g. opening the plasma canisters in toxins, sabotaging the SM etc.

Madra Tossilan and Adolf et al. could have been talked to by DGL but this by itself isn't actionable.