[BeeSting12] Melanie Flowers - gib me 4norai, answers own ah

[NanoCyborg]

Byond account and character name: Mine: OyVey37, Sergius Radonezh
Admin: BeeSting12, Melanie Flowers
Time and Server(Bagil or Sybil) incident occurred: 8:15ish PST, Bagil
ROUND ID HERE: 79278
Detailed summary: Two complaints :
1. Griefing/killing me for no reason.
I was a janitor and was walking around back to my janitorial closet in .. MetaStation. As I was walking back in, I don't recall why, maybe to get water or something these two people, Melanie Flowers (BeeSting12) & Caitlyn Rose (Vexint) followed me in with spears in their hand. Mind you, they were rounding the corner from the left side (library, HoP, etc) so they weren't actually able to see me do anything when I was mopping (I was near the big station sign by the front of the bridge or the start of the sec area). They followed me in, and Melanie started to attack me, and got me on the ground, got me into I think crit. Melanie then said to the friend, when she asked why I was being killed "Because uh ... Well haven't got that far." "He's probably a rev though, so it's okay". And then they proceeded (and at this time I was already ahelped to see what was going on) drag me around and eventually I died. You can make up your mind what happened here but from what I can see here, he didn't know whether I was a rev or not, and he couldn't see me mopping so I can't actually see why he killed me, let alone attacked me.
Screenshots : (Before and right at the start) https://feen.us/9jh3lk48fp3qjdvsznu8hti ... zx63yk.png (Middle of it) https://feen.us/o2xwxlnz2r8j85dxyrl8kpk ... xpdk6m.png (After I was critted and on the ground in the closet) https://feen.us/bx3tjhq6fhghurir3qqzeag ... bdo98f.png

2. Answering his own ahelp to gloat and make fun that nothing actually really happened to him.
I was in an ahelp conversation with CitrusGender, a trial admin, and they had eventually gotten to the end of the conversation by saying it was handled. I was wondering what it was and I was a bit pissed sounding so I can understand if this Citrus fellow might have gotten mad. But, BeeSting decided to but in and essentially gloat that he got off with effectively nothing. I asked what was it that happened to him since Citrus said he got handled and BeeSting12 said, "The player involved got a stern talking to." (me now: "Good meme" "xd") "ecks dee". Seems pretty unprofessional of an admin to say that and pretty fucked considering (in my eyes of course) he just got away with breaking rules that would get people banned for multiple days in the minimum.
Screenshots : https://feen.us/9pybh7u1yi2bqxxj54tf994 ... s82uz9.png

[BeeSting12]

Number one is a ban request. I just told you that I got a stern talking to, which I did. Once you said "Good meme xd", I figured you were joking. As would most reasonable people. So I responded with an "ecks dee" as well.

[BeeSting12]

If you were wondering about the kill justification:
>see janitor mopping clean floors in the hallway
>janitor has spear
>corner janitor in closet
>stab him to death

Basically, wetting floors and waiting to pop the first officer that slips is a super obvious revolutionary tactic. I saw right through it and murdered you before you got someone. I'd also like to say that gloating was not my intention. I legitimately did get a stern talking to, and I'm sure that's what CitrusGender would've done with anyone besides me.

My kill was valid either way. You were doing a super obvious rev tactic and got dunked for it. He only said I was walking on thin ice because he didn't see the situation and could only go off of logs, and not what it looked like.

[NanoCyborg]

Number one is a ban request.

It wasn't persay a ban request, it's more of y'know... a complaint. I'm also, unless I'm blind, not seeing where a ban request (if it was one) is not valid for this area of the forum.

I just told you that I got a stern talking to, which I did. Once you said "Good meme xd", I figured you were joking. As would most reasonable people. So I responded with an "ecks dee" as well.

Aren't really supposed to reply to an AH regarding you to my knowledge. Added on to that, and of course this is subjective on both sides, I felt that wasn't a response (the first part) that was just stating the fact that you got a stern talking to. Seemed, to me of course, as a snide comment but of course you might have meant it earnestly. That's why I responded with "Good meme xd", obviously I was pissed in the prior chat (which since you were responding to it I assume you can read) I was responding sarcastically because I took that as a backhanded remark.

If you were wondering about the kill justification:
>see janitor mopping clean floors in the hallway
>janitor has spear
>corner janitor in closet
>stab him to death

Basically, wetting floors and waiting to pop the first officer that slips is a super obvious revolutionary tactic. I saw right through it and murdered you before you got someone. I'd also like to say that gloating was not my intention. I legitimately did get a stern talking to, and I'm sure that's what CitrusGender would've done with anyone besides me.

My kill was valid either way. You were doing a super obvious rev tactic and got dunked for it. He only said I was walking on thin ice because he didn't see the situation and could only go off of logs, and not what it looked like.

Not really true, but of course this is your word v mine.
1. You couldn't see me mopping, you were literally rounding the corner by the time I was going to my closet.
2. I had a spear, true.
TIL holding a spear and walking into my own janitorial closet with no one there = valid reason to kill me

[cedarbridge]

Number one is a ban request. I just told you that I got a stern talking to, which I did. Once you said "Good meme xd", I figured you were joking. As would most reasonable people. So I responded with an "ecks dee" as well.

This is fairly correct. I'd have to look over the logs since one trial giving another trial a "stern talking to" sounds a bit vague without context.

In the second issue 1) You said you spoke with Citrus. Thus the ahelp'd issue was responded to by an admin that was not BeeSting12. That means he did not answer his own ahelp or handle his own issue because he is not CitrusGender. 2) Do we need to have the "this is not Applebees" discussion about admin professional conduct again? Since when did responding to a lame ahelp "Good meme xd" with an equally silly "ecks dee" rise to the level of sanctionable action? I don't think it does and has no reason to become.

[NanoCyborg]

Number one is a ban request. I just told you that I got a stern talking to, which I did. Once you said "Good meme xd", I figured you were joking. As would most reasonable people. So I responded with an "ecks dee" as well.

This is fairly correct. I'd have to look over the logs since one trial giving another trial a "stern talking to" sounds a bit vague without context.

In the second issue 1) You said you spoke with Citrus. Thus the ahelp'd issue was responded to by an admin that was not BeeSting12. That means he did not answer his own ahelp or handle his own issue because he is not CitrusGender. 2) Do we need to have the "this is not Applebees" discussion about admin professional conduct again? Since when did responding to a lame ahelp "Good meme xd" with an equally silly "ecks dee" rise to the level of sanctionable action? I don't think it does and has no reason to become.

I don't know what the "this is not Applebees" discussion is, if you could clue me in that would be cool. The response "ecks dee" isn't really the "gloating" part, it was the prior response. I can understand how someone could take it either way.

If you could refer me to where it says in the rules for this part of the forum to not say anything relating to a "ban request" that'd also be cool. Because I'm not seeing it in the rules part of this section of the forum.

[CitrusGender]

Right. So right off the bat: let me make it clear that I know both parties in this instance so I did everything in my power to give the most neutral ruling as possible. Also note that this was during a rev round where I have over 10 ahelps on highpop bagil where I was basically by myself with a drunk Sven13. As for the actual ruling, essentially I was told by Bee that the hallway was slipped by them purposefully and that he saw them with a spear during a rev round causing them to kill them along with their friend. From what I could tell, this was a really hectic situation that ended up with them dying during a rev round.

As what I was told by Nano, they said basically they were attacked as a revolutionary while inside of their custodial closet (which is when I orbited them). I talked to Bee about it since I was a bit skeptical about him killing someone for having a spear as a non-antag, non-security player. Since they ended up being an antag, it appears that his suspicions were right. Still, I did have a very long conversation with Beesting afterwards in regards to my concern with his murder. I made sure to be as unbias as possible in this situation and I feel as if I would have made the same ruling whether or not it was an admin or not.

[NanoCyborg]

I talked to Bee about it since I was a bit skeptical about him killing someone for having a spear as a non-antag, non-security player. Since they ended up being an antag, it appears that his suspicions were right.

Not to just nitpick but, being right for the wrong reasons doesn't mean he was right.

[BeeSting12]

By "This is not Applebees," he is just saying that we are not wait staff forced to cater to your every need. Sure, we're held to a bare minimum of professionalism, but we don't have to suck every player's dick simultaneously.

I'll go ahead and pull logs. I forget the exact round ID, some of it happened in asay and some of it happened in ahelps.

Basically, he said I was walking a thin line with it or something similar. It was pretty ambiguous on whether it could be valid or not.

My opinion is that it was very obvious you were making a slip trap so you could poke officers with your spear. I wasn't 100% sure, hence me saying ICly- He was probably a rev. I felt my justification was enough to kill you, if it wasn't then I wouldn't have killed you.

Ban requests go to the ban requests forum, which was locked because Kor decided it was a waste of time for everyone involved to argue over a guy who got taken out of a game for thirty minutes and then arguing for a week about it. (I agree with him.) I'm pretty sure you can't make ban requests against admin characters in the admin complaint forum- It's just for administrative complaints such as #2, but I may be wrong on that.

[BeeSting12]

Round ID 79278 if anyone wants to look for themselves. Next round is when I tell them that I got a stern talking to.

Starting at the beginning of the ticket that he adminhelped, lines of irrelevant emote/say/admin logs are omitted here in between:
[04:02:40]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #3: OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): Am I being killed by griefers or traitors. - heard by 2 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
[04:03:15]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): You are being killed by nonrevolutionaries: yes. Do you know why he situation happened like this?
[04:03:31]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh)->CitrusGender/(Ian Smith): No you fuck. They just walked into my custodial closet and attacked me down
[04:07:17]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): Uh, appearantly you were slipping floors and you had a spear on you. That lead to him murdering you for that reason.
[04:07:48]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh)->CitrusGender/(Ian Smith): He murdered me because I was holding a spear? Wow dude, good reason. That's complete bullshit, he literally even told his autistic friend he had no reason to kill me "because I might be a rev so its k"
[04:09:25]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): When did he say that?
[04:10:36]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): Still, were you slipping floors though?
[04:11:11]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh)->CitrusGender/(Ian Smith): I was doing my job near the front of the station, infront of the bridge / sec. They came around the corner and didn'T see me doing anything so that's not a reason. and here is the pics, https://feen.us/o2xwxlnz2r8j85dxyrl8kpk ... xpdk6m.png https://feen.us/bx3tjhq6fhghurir3qqzeag ... bdo98f.png
[04:14:50]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->OyVey37/(Sergius Radonezh): Alright, I am talking to them right now.
Round ends at this point.

Starting when CitrusGender bwoinked me:
[04:04:47]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith)->BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers): Hey bud, could you tell me what happened with the janitor back there?
[04:05:02]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers)->CitrusGender/(Ian Smith): He was slipping floors and had a spear, fairly obvious rev tactic.
[04:07:06]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers)->CitrusGender/(Ian Smith): Surprise, he was a rev
At this point, I die and readmin. The "surprise he was a rev" was from when I got flashed later on and saw his body.

Asay logs that are relevant to this complaint, check time stamps to see what I'm responding to:
[04:10:28]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : I did say that I didn't have very good proof ICly, Citrus (108,166,2)
[04:10:43]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : It was still enough reasoning to make me want to stab him to death (142,166,2)
[04:11:08]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith) : Whew (100,166,2)
[04:11:38]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : Sounds about right, what he posted (127,141,2)
[04:12:03]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith) : Bee, cmon man. You can't murder someone for doing their job. (100,166,2)
[04:12:18]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CitrusGender/(Ian Smith) : How chaotic was the situation? (106,142,2)
[04:12:28]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : Not that chaotic (108,149,2)
[04:12:38]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : I did it because he was slipping floors and had a spear. (108,145,2)
[04:12:46]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : You can't tell me that's not an obvious rev tactic (121,145,2)
[04:13:47]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(Melanie Flowers) : Seriously though. Answering ahelps on rev rounds? (154,136,2)
Round ends.

[04:15:01]GAME: Antagonists at round end were...
[04:15:01]GAME: Revolutionarys: Penny Vonks(Your Neighbors Obnoxious Cat), Jakob Fugger(Puterking), Terrel Lord(Golfer45), Terrell Wilkerson(Atomic1fire), Richard G. Boderman(Tgdice), Explores-The-Unknown(RandomBystander), Cara Mull(Newworldblues3), Gary Logue(Raickoz), Caitlyn Rose(Vexint), Chewy Duwang(Scoopscoopscoo), Dylan Anderson(Dylan_12), Aaden Clark(Helios1), Kraflador Ghemrik(Ishfi), Allegra Rize(Chocodemon), Soothes-The-Wound(DrPillzRedux), Bob Workingman(SpagettKing), Vinny Lagoste(Rancereya), Jamison Rockefeller(Kholdgrave), Honkerton(OsmiumTrioxide), Lillith Stugz(NoH8OnlyLove), Goodwin Polson(Boba_Fett12), Melanie Flowers(BeeSting12), Richardo Zamenhof(Leer10), Sergius Radonezh(OyVey37), Cayden Briggs(Berice), Malachi Stough(Venomsnek), Willard Barrels(Suede Falcon), Ethan Dank(RawChaos).
Proof that he was in fact a revolutionary.

Next round, round ID 79280

Asay logs relevant to the situation:
[04:16:49]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CitrusGender/(CitrusGender) : Whew (8,174,1)
[04:16:57]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : tbh answering ahelps on a rev round is a waste of time (8,174,1)
[04:17:01]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : for everyone involved (8,174,1)
[04:17:30]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: CitrusGender/(CitrusGender) : Alright. Be a little bit more careful about it all man. That is REALLY cutting it close. (8,174,1)
[04:17:37]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Exalted12/(Exalted12) : yeah fuck that (8,174,1)
[04:17:41]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Exalted12/(Exalted12) : rev rouidn aheklps (8,174,1)
[04:17:46]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Exalted12/(Exalted12) : jesus christ im too durnk f (8,174,1)
[04:17:50]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : wew (8,174,1)
[04:17:59]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : Alright so let me put it this way (8,174,1)
[04:18:02]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : You see a janitor mopping a clean floor (8,174,1)
[04:18:13]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : He was a spear and he runs into his closet, right next to said floor (8,174,1)
[04:18:35]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : Do you a) Do nothing? b) kill him or c) Find the nearest rev head and ask him to convert you. (8,174,1)
[04:19:42]ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12) : kek (8,174,1)
That's the last of ahelp logs relevant to this situation.

Ticket that oyvey opened:
[04:18:15]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(CitrusGender)->OyVey37/(OyVey37): Alright. The situation has been handled.
[04:18:27]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(OyVey37)->CitrusGender/(CitrusGender): What happened?
[04:18:55]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(CitrusGender)->OyVey37/(OyVey37): It has been handled.
[04:18:59]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(OyVey37)->CitrusGender/(CitrusGender): i.e. nothing
[04:19:06]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: CitrusGender/(CitrusGender)->OyVey37/(OyVey37): whew lad
[04:19:17]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(OyVey37)->CitrusGender/(CitrusGender): js
[04:19:38]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12)->OyVey37/(OyVey37): The player involved got a very stern talking to
[04:19:46]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(OyVey37)->BeeSting12/(BeeSting12): good meme
[04:19:54]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: OyVey37/(OyVey37)->BeeSting12/(BeeSting12): xddd
[04:19:58]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: BeeSting12/(BeeSting12)->OyVey37/(OyVey37): ecks dee
OyVey37 logged out shortly afterwards.

[Okand37]

I would say that the exact specifics of the in-game situation doesn't really matter as it doesn't relate to their administrative actions. You can't make a formal player complaint in the forums against a player for something they shouldn't do, and the same goes for administrators.

Moving on. If you're being aggressive to an administrator in adminhelps it is very likely they will joke or be aggressive back-while this isn't exactly suggested, we're just volunteers and some level of leeway is generally allowed.

An administrator shouldn't use asay as a means to discuss something in adminhelps as it makes it less convenient/proper for logging purposes. Regardless of their personal opinions, an administrator shouldn't respond to the individual in their own adminhelp as an admin is not allowed to deal with their own situations-likewise. Returning to the above, while an administrator is by no means required to be "nice" (although I would personally ask they do act in at the least a neutral manner) I don't think it was necessary for the comment to be made as it does come off as abrasive, but I don't really think its worthy of an admin complaint.

[BeeSting12]

Okand37 was correct in that I probably shouldn't have used asay to communicate with Citrus, but beside the point. I meant no malice by what I sent you in admin PMs, nor did I mean to gloat that I got out of following the rules because I didn't get out of following the rules, and I wasn't shown preferential treatment because I'm an admin.

[imblyings]

Poorly but still somewhat justified kills infact do not get bans for multiple days but usually a note, unless the player is really bad. If I'm understanding beesting right, you were a janitor with a spear who wet a floor and hid right next to it. During rev that's pretty good justification, more than I had sometimes.

As for the second thing, complaining about a ecks dee reply when you say good meme xd is silly.