[Saegrimr] Nayeli Wood - ruining traitor round

[UtterNewbie]

Byond account and character name: Nayeli Wood
Admin: Saegrimr
Time incident occured: Sybil, round about 5 minutes before this post
Detailed summary:

I was a double agent botanist, spent ENTIRE round making enough biomass to produce approximately 100 monkey cubes, with intention to block off escape hallway for people trying to escape. I released them in a hallway, there was a minor lag after they got sprayed on water and spawned. Afterwards it didn't lag at all. Seconds after I receive a bwoink from Saegrimr telling me I'm going to crash the server. He then deletes all my monkeys, wasting an entire round of effort and preparation effectively ruining my traitor round.

100 monkeys is nowhere near enough to crash or even lag the server. With the amount of admin complaints and drama around his trigger happy admining I'm surprised he made it past trialmin, this is not what an admin should behave like.

[Hornygranny]

You can walk freely through monkeys while using help intent. Your plan wouldn't have accomplished anything.

[UtterNewbie]

You can walk freely through monkeys while using help intent. Your plan wouldn't have accomplished anything.

That's completely besides the point. It's akin to deleting a singularity that a traitor worked hard to release then arguing "but it stayed in engineering".

If this is legit then I want a list of approved traitor actions that won't waste 30 minutes only to be removed because x admin is on. I want Saegrimr deadminned for his constant misbehavior evident from dozens of complaints and incidents he's in, including this one. He actively looks out for opportunities to abuse his power.

[scaredofshadows]

Mass introduction of monkeys can definitely slow down the server.

Why did you want to spawn 100 monkeys in the escape hallway as a double agent? This action can be interpreted by some as an attempt to crash the server.

[UtterNewbie]

Mass introduction of monkeys can definitely slow down the server.

Why did you want to spawn 100 monkeys in the escape hallway as a double agent? This action can be interpreted by some as an attempt to crash the server.

Did you even read the first post?

The only instance where mob spam ever crashed server to my knowledge is when wizard events x5 caused thousands of mice to spawn, even that wasnt crash just massive slowdown followed by round reset. Around 100 monkeys are not even noticeable aside from the first minor lag when they spawn. Atmos or singularity will cause more server strain than this did, I don't see them being deleted.

[Stickymayhem]

I have personally had to del all monkeys when someone monkeycubed over a hundred of them due to the horrendous lag. It happens and Saegrimr's response was absolutely acceptable.

It would have begun lagging if they were left much longer due to, I think, their effect on atmos processing. Antags are specifically not allowed to crash the server.

[UtterNewbie]

There wasn't horrendous lag. There was a tiny lag spike the moment they spawned. You are making it up.

Nobody was trying to crash the server. Again it takes thousands of mobs to slow it to unplayable levels. and you will sooner die of boredom than make it crash with monkeys. Not around 100. There's at least 100 of mobs thanks to high player count and map mobs already, double that is not even noticeable. Stop lying.

[scaredofshadows]

There wasn't horrendous lag. There was a tiny lag spike the moment they spawned. You are making it up.

Nobody was trying to crash the server. Again it takes thousands of mobs to slow it to unplayable levels. Not around 100. There's at least 100 of mobs thanks to high player count and map mobs already, double that is not even noticeable. Stop lying.

I think the point here is that there wasn't a very good reason for subjecting the server to a possible crash or having the master controller stop firing due to the 100 monkeys spawning in at once.

[UtterNewbie]

I think the point here is that there wasn't a very good reason for subjecting the server to a possible crash or having the master controller stop firing due to the 100 monkeys spawning in at once.

They did not spawn at once, it took 3 lockers to get at least that many. So it was 3x spawn.

The incident occurred after the fact they were spawned and everything was fine, this was mere admin abuse from whoever is responsible.

Mobs don't crash the server in such low amounts, otherwise you would be having daily crashes due to admins spawning oh so funny clown bombs.

Even if it did slow down, which it did not - such slowdowns are caused by a myriad of antag actions such as bombs, plasma fires and singularities. There was absolutely no reason to ruin everything I worked on for the entire round.

[scaredofshadows]

I think the point here is that there wasn't a very good reason for subjecting the server to a possible crash or having the master controller stop firing due to the 100 monkeys spawning in at once.

They did not spawn at once, it took 3 lockers to get at least that many. So it was 3x spawn.

The incident occurred after the fact they were spawned and everything was fine, this was mere admin abuse from whoever is responsible.

Mobs don't crash the server in such low amounts, otherwise you would be having daily crashes due to admins spawning oh so funny clown bombs.

Even if it did slow down, which it did not - such slowdowns are caused by a myriad of antag actions such as bombs, plasma fires and singularities. There was absolutely no reason to ruin everything I worked on for the entire round.

Do they spawn in dozens of bombs, plasma canisters or singularities?

[Hornygranny]

Clowns are simple mobs and have negligible overhead, unlike monkeys.

[NikNakFlak]

I will note that I myself have had to delete traitors singularities specifically because they lagged the server to the point where it was unplayable. I messaged the traitors and notified them that I deleted their work and they were fine with it. If it lags the server and makes it difficult for other people to play badly enough, deleting is always justified. Also noting, taking from experience when another admin accidentally spawned 500 statues, the server most certainly lags much much before a 1000 of a mob. The statues were deleted immediately after the mistake had been made, because the lag was that bad. Admins can see the master controller at all times and when a section jumps, it lags. Machine jumps when the singularities go to town, Air jumps when mass bombings happen (or meteors), and mob jumps when massive amounts of mobs spawn. When these numbers jump (and mob does when anything close to 100 are spawned), the server lags.

[MrStonedOne]

And a point, simple mobs are much easier then normal mobs.

living carbon mobs breath in air, put out co2, have a life() that ticks every second that is hundreds of lines long checking health, consuming reagents, getting hungry, vision, etc.

Humans, Monkeys, slimes, non-apc alien, are on that list.

Monkey's life() is 200 lines, related things that are called in life make up in additional 300 lines.

So 500 some lines of code, called every second, 100 times, = 50,000 lines of code. ran every second. For a prank that wouldn't have even worked.

And you expect the admin to get reprimanded for putting a stop to that?

[Ikarrus]

Aran tested this and spawned some 1000 monkeys and we were only at 0.3 delay for Mob. It was hardly noticeable in-game. At 100 monkeys there's virtually no difference to how the server is usually.

A lot of the admins' fear appears to be unfounded.

[Aranclanos]

100 monkeys don't lag the server, 1000 start making some 10~ CPU rise. I don't mind Saegrimr deleting the monkeys, he was thinking for the best of the server and all the rest of the players, while the OP is only thinking for himself. But I'm annoyed at people talking stuff without knowing here. These images are from sybil, not a local server. 100 monkeys on each turf inside of those 1x1 cells.

tg masterrace baby

[Saegrimr]

Neat, that's good to know however i'm still running off what was immediately observed which was 1: Tons of monkeys being spawned in the hallways colliding with everything 2: Significant stuttering (on my end at least) of movement while a ghost. 3: Everything going back to normal once the monkeys were deleted.

If I was wrong to assume based on those three happening then I apologize.
No action was taken against the two botanists other than just PMing them "Hey this is looking like its going to crash the server"

[NikNakFlak]

With that image taken into account, 500 statues still lagged the server to shit on artyom one day. It may have changed, they may be different mobs, but it looks like I was wrong when it comes to monkeys, and I apologize.

[UtterNewbie]

I don't mind Saegrimr deleting the monkeys, he was thinking for the best of the server and all the rest of the players, while the OP is only thinking for himself.

Thanks for the testing. I knew for a fact that monkeys did not lag the server and stated it many times here and in the ahelps, since I seen monkey spam many times before in game. There was no intent to lag the server and it did not lag the server, the only "for myself" thinking I did was related to sabotaging crew escaping by monkey spam, playing my role as an antagonist. Which I think is much more fun for everyone than murderboning or bombing things.

Anyway I'm satisfied with how this was resolved.

[Aranclanos]

With that image taken into account, 500 statues still lagged the server to shit on artyom one day. It may have changed, they may be different mobs, but it looks like I was wrong when it comes to monkeys, and I apologize.

Well hostile mobs are a lot different, because they search for targets all around them, I welcome anyone to test it -on a local server- and play around with these kind of things, here:
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station
There's a button mid-right of that page stating 'download ZIP', you have to compile it with dream maker and then open it with dream deamon, remember to add yourself to the admin.txt before running dream deamon so you have buttons.

[Spacemanspark]

I've already tested this kind of thing, it lags horribly if you have a hundred hostile mobs running around, even on local. And heaven forbid you have another one hundred of a different type of hostile mob (Ex. Syndicate vs Xenomorphs.) next to the first one hundred. It's horrendous.

[Stickymayhem]

Atnos processing isn't even taken to account on umsimulated turfs on centcom, and space may be simpler than it interacting with the actual station, so I would recommend running another test on the actual station.

I've personally seen 100-150 monkey cubed monkeys bring the server to a crawl until they were deleted but it may have been combined with other factors.

[Hibbles]

I feel the need to specify that this complaint isn't enough to take action against Saeg. At worst, he was wrong about an issue of server crashing. Next time find a different plan to do. This isn't like a traitor releasing the singularity and us deleting it, this is like a traitor introducing a potentially-crash-inducing script into Telecoms or doing some exploit and having us delete that. Even if it wouldn't crash us because TG stronk, it's an understandable concern and you'd really regret it if we weren't so keen on preventing the game from fucking up.