[Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

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MortoSasye
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:05 pm
Byond Username: MortoSasye

[Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby MortoSasye » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:18 pm #570913

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): Game Server

Byond account and character name OR Discord name: MortoSasye

Admin: Delaron

ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 143007

Detailed summary: This is a pretty straightforward complaint. Essentially, an AI (U.L.D.U.A.R.) was subverted by the player Baby Honk, who reached their sat. Upon reaching it, the only human was chain stunned, being mocked by the AI who ignored clear orders to turn the turrets off.

After noticing this, I ahelped only to receive this answer, not receiving a reply to my indication to check the clown actions:

Image
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Delaron disconnected afterwards, so my ahelp the following round was ignored.

From my point of view, the actions commited by the AI break the following https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Rule_1_Precedents.:

Don't be a dick.
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.


https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Sili ... .29_Policy:

Server Rule 1: "Don't be a dick out of character" applies for law interpretation. Act in good faith to not ruin a round for other players unprompted.

You may exploit conflicts or loopholes but must not violate Server Rule 1 because of it. See 1.1.2 for details.

You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order).


I heavily dislike that a player obviously ignoring their laws, and acting like a dick to their one human, was let go without a solid reason. I also want to use this complaint as an opportunity to receive further explanation from Delaron about why he ruled this as valid, since the reason provided was very short.

Also, as an extra note, parsed logs aren't showing this round logs so I can't provide the precise actions done by both parties: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... 020/07/28/
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Agux909
 
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby Agux909 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:23 am #570934

Links for the logs:
Game: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html
Attack: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... attack.txt

Logs for the traitor using the module on the AI:

Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:01:21.784] LAW: 20:01:21.784] LAW: Parkertroll/Baby Honk used 'OneHuman' AI Module on anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) from AI Upload Chamber (119,163,2). The law specified Baby Honk
[2020-07-28 20:01:22.028] LAW: 20:01:22.028] LAW: Parkertroll/Baby Honk used 'OneHuman' AI Module on anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) from AI Upload Chamber (119,163,2). The law specified Baby Honk, but the AI's existing law 0 cannot be overridden.
[2020-07-28 20:01:22.261] LAW: 20:01:22.261] LAW: Parkertroll/Baby Honk used 'OneHuman' AI Module on anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) from AI Upload Chamber (119,163,2). The law specified Baby Honk, but the AI's existing law 0 cannot be overridden.


Logs for their exchange, in which the AI player can be seen acting as a dick towards it's onehuman subverter, ignoring their obvious petitions and mocking them instead:

Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:02:21.561] SAY: 20:02:21.561] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "mooooo" (AI Satellite Antechamber (128,206,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:35.192] SAY: 20:02:35.192] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "mooo!!!" (AI Chamber (125,212,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:53.443] SAY: 20:02:53.443] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "ai" (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:54.347] SAY: 20:02:54.347] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "open" (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:10.497] SAY: 20:03:10.497] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "yeah what about it" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:25.314] SAY: 20:03:25.314] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "OFF" (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:28.966] SAY: 20:03:28.966] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "mooo indeed" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:39.603] SAY: 20:03:39.603] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "Man I hate this station where the hell is the comm room" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:42.291] SAY: 20:03:42.291] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) "help" (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:45.648] SAY: 20:03:45.648] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "yeah yeah moo" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.739] SAY: 20:03:53.739] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "did the wizard do that" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:56.342] SAY: 20:03:56.342] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "I killed them you know" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:57.888] EMOTE: 20:03:57.888] EMOTE: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) nods (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:05.086] EMOTE: 20:04:05.086] EMOTE: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) points to the off turret button' (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:15.012] SAY: 20:04:15.012] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "yeah it's a button" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:54.756] SAY: 20:04:54.756] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "you might wanna go the shuttle is gonna le-oh there it goes" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:01.661] EMOTE: 20:05:01.661] EMOTE: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) points to TURNING OFF THE BLOODY TURRETS (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:09.292] SAY: 20:05:09.292] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "what are you pointing at" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:16.261] SAY: 20:05:16.261] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "weird cow" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:53.273] EMOTE: 20:05:53.273] EMOTE: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (AI Chamber (124,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:00.732] SAY: 20:06:00.732] SAY: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.) "aw man the cow died that's gonna stink" (AI Chamber (129,213,2))


Logs for the subverter being hit by the turrets for more than 3 minutes in front of the AI, until they just had enough and decided to suicide:


Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:02:11.407] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the disabler beam from AI Satellite Antechamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Satellite Antechamber (132,202,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:11.408] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the disabler beam from AI Satellite Antechamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Satellite Antechamber (126,202,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:16.756] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the disabler beam from AI Satellite Antechamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Satellite Antechamber (126,200,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:16.757] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the disabler beam from AI Satellite Antechamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Satellite Antechamber (126,202,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:27.799] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (134,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:27.800] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (133,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:27.801] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:27.801] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:29.761] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (133,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:29.822] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:29.823] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:32.405] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:32.407] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:32.517] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,212,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:32.519] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,212,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:33.079] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:33.469] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,212,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.543] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.544] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.544] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.546] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.818] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:02:49.819] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:05.848] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:05.849] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:05.850] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:05.852] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:06.148] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:06.149] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.510] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.511] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.512] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.513] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.773] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:21.774] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.083] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.084] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.084] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.085] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.352] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:37.354] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.084] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.085] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.086] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.087] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.348] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:03:53.350] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.482] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.483] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.483] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.485] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.761] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:08.764] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.599] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.600] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.601] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.603] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.932] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:24.935] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.274] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.275] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.276] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.277] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.547] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:40.549] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.659] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.660] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.706] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.708] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.901] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:04:56.903] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.283] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.283] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.284] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.394] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.396] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:12.621] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.325] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.326] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.327] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.442] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.444] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:26.668] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (125,216,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:39.959] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,210,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:39.960] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (125,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:39.961] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (124,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:39.963] ATTACK: [turret] has fired at Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) with the electrode from AI Chamber (NEWHP: 60.2) (AI Chamber (124,214,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:40.181] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has been shot by the turret with the electrode (AI Chamber (124,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:53.271] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (job: Clown) committed suicide (AI Chamber (124,218,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:53.287] ATTACK: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) has died (BRUTE: 47, BURN: 2.5, TOX: 0, OXY: 150.5, CLONE: 0) (AI Chamber (124,218,2))

User avatar
delaron
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:44 pm
Byond Username: Delaron

Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby delaron » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:01 pm #571329

The quick hot take.

You ahelped on someones behalf. Which is nice of you but doesn't grant you a full detailed resolution. I had a conversation with the individual and reviewed the logs.

Pulled from https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/ ... 7/game.log
Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:06:11.103] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn)->Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.): hey why are you ignoring your one human?
[2020-07-28 20:06:20.480] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.)->Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn): ignoring what
[2020-07-28 20:06:27.940] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.)->Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn): i was acknowledging them the entire time
[2020-07-28 20:06:35.739] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn)->Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.): clown keeps pointing at turrets?
[2020-07-28 20:06:46.728] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.)->Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn): yeah he kept pointing at them
[2020-07-28 20:07:39.281] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn)->Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.): prolly should be something to note, and infer action for your single human
[2020-07-28 20:07:49.326] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Anonymous9710/(U.L.D.U.A.R.)->Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn): he wasnt being harmed

I originally mistook the Ahelp as you playing the clown thus my initial reply. However I noticed I was incorrect and reviewed the logs further.
However as already been listed, the clown suicides before I was even investigating. They player had DCed so I couldn't get their side of the story.

Going based off the conversation and logs at hand I agree the AI was being a dick but there was no verbal command and the way they emoted was not enough to warrant punishment to the AI player for ignoring commands. Since the player affected hadn't ahelped I left it as is.

I never disconnected but instead was putting my play on hold to address and assist with end of round issues. I only logged out after the round ended.

[2020-07-28 20:08:59.662] ACCESS: Logout: Delaron/(Delaron Eraborn)


"Delaron disconnected afterwards, so my ahelp the following round was ignored."


Do you mean the next round you made an additional ahelp or that the original remained ignored? If the later I assure you I didn't ignore the ahelp as I have stated above. I didnt join the next round because I normally admin Sybil and play on Basil. Since it was becoming obvious it was an admin night I went back to sybil.
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delaron
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby delaron » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:18 pm #571330

As a follow up, looking at the logs of the following round it appears you continued the conversation but opted to drop it, claiming the ruling was the action was deemed valid. The player affected also connected but not seemingly making a issue about it. Why did you drop the concern and not continue at the time with the available admins? My decision was based on the information at hand and could absolutely have been revised or reviewed in real time by the remaining admins.


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MortoSasye
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby MortoSasye » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:14 pm #571334

delaron wrote:The quick hot take.

You ahelped on someones behalf. Which is nice of you but doesn't grant you a full detailed resolution. I had a conversation with the individual and reviewed the logs.


This is not relevant at all. I ahelped in behalf of the player since I noticed something fishy going on which may not have been obvious to someone not experienced with the rules. As shown here, I informed the clown that I ahelped for them, after they suicided out of frustration for the AI actions:

[2020-07-28 20:05:57.845] SAY: 20:05:57.845] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (DEAD) "screw that ai" (AI Chamber (124,215,2))
[2020-07-28 20:05:58.509] SAY: 20:05:58.509] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "hi clown" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:00.793] SAY: 20:06:00.793] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "I ahelped the AI" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:03.072] SAY: 20:06:03.072] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "ahelp them too" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:05.134] SAY: 20:06:05.134] SAY: Jaraxxus/(Kel Thuzad) (DEAD) "ai being a massive cunt" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:06.326] SAY: 20:06:06.326] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (DEAD) "thanks bella" (Space (60,199,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:09.352] SAY: 20:06:09.352] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (DEAD) "dear god" (Space (60,183,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:16.931] SAY: 20:06:16.931] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "not sure why it was ignoring you" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:21.633] SAY: 20:06:21.633] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (DEAD) "i was the ONLY HUMAN!!" (Hyperspace (214,81,13))
[2020-07-28 20:06:27.169] SAY: 20:06:27.169] SAY: OmegaShoots/(Declan Cooper) (DEAD) "what'd the ai do" (Central Primary Hallway (121,132,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:37.086] SAY: 20:06:37.086] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "kept ignoring the orders of the only human" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:39.494] SAY: 20:06:39.494] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "calling them a cow" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:40.310] SAY: 20:06:40.310] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "etc" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:42.407] SAY: 20:06:42.407] SAY: Jaraxxus/(Kel Thuzad) (DEAD) "it refused to let the onehuman'd clown card it" (Gateway (139,173,2))
[2020-07-28 20:06:57.841] SAY: 20:06:57.841] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "this AI was being shitty since earlier so honestly not surprised" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))
[2020-07-28 20:07:02.239] SAY: 20:07:02.239] SAY: Parkertroll/(Baby Honk) (DEAD) "if it had opened up and turned off turrets dear god" (Emergency Shuttle (216,99,13))
[2020-07-28 20:07:02.346] SAY: 20:07:02.346] SAY: MortoSasye/(Bella Rouge) (DEAD) "I'm gonna go grab something to eat" (AI Chamber (127,213,2))


Logs above from: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html

Do you mean the next round you made an additional ahelp or that the original remained ignored? If the later I assure you I didn't ignore the ahelp as I have stated above. I didnt join the next round because I normally admin Sybil and play on Basil. Since it was becoming obvious it was an admin night I went back to sybil.


The original ahelp had a follow up by me asking you to check the clown me logs. After I received no reply, and seeing it as an obvious break of the rules from my perspective, I decided to ahelp the next round but you already had disconnected by that point. The admin online, Suicidalpickles, closed the ticket after a bit: admins can't answer tickets that are towards another admin, since that would allow adminshopping

As a follow up, looking at the logs of the following round it appears you continued the conversation but opted to drop it, claiming the ruling was the action was deemed valid.


I did not at any point drop it as implied, nor did I claim it was valid. I lack the access to the raw logs, but an admin should have them.

The player affected also connected but not seemingly making a issue about it.


See the above dead chat logs

Why did you drop the concern and not continue at the time with the available admins?


As said before, I did not drop it, nor could the admins continue something that was already handled by another admin.
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delaron
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby delaron » Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:42 pm #571337

I did not at any point drop it as implied, nor did I claim it was valid. I lack the access to the raw logs, but an admin should have them.


I am referring the the following line.

Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:10:57.323] OOC: MortoSasye/(MortoSasye) "it was ruled valid" (start area (8,174,1))


However I stand corrected, I misread the conversation with you and Suicidalpickles regarding closing it out. It was as you clarified Sucidalpickles closing it out and you stating that there would be a chance for follow up on the forums.

I also acknowledge you were not looped in after the initial ahelp when I realized you were not directly involved. I should have made that clear. I apologize that my handling gave you the impression of being ignored or that I came off as dismissive. I see how that would make the situation additionally frustrating.

The basis of my decision was considering how an AI would interpret emote actions and having spoken to the AI player letting them know they should have paid more attention to their one human. When I pulled up the panel to reach out to the clown player it seemed they disconnected.

I am not sure its admin shopping if the admin handling it doesn't stay the next round and additional info can be gained. The back and forth between the the Clown and the AI coupled with no clown complaint and follow up is how it got left where it was.

I am unsure if there is anything additional I can add to this complaint.

It does raise questions on admin-shopping definition, acceptable inference on /me emotes, and the extent of communication that should be granted when ahelping on someone elses behalf. I will gladly adjust how i handle things to fall in line with how the headmins feel it should be done in the future.
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MortoSasye
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby MortoSasye » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:06 pm #571342

delaron wrote:
I did not at any point drop it as implied, nor did I claim it was valid. I lack the access to the raw logs, but an admin should have them.


I am referring the the following line.

Spoiler:
[2020-07-28 20:10:57.323] OOC: MortoSasye/(MortoSasye) "it was ruled valid" (start area (8,174,1))


However I stand corrected, I misread the conversation with you and Suicidalpickles regarding closing it out. It was as you clarified Sucidalpickles closing it out and you stating that there would be a chance for follow up on the forums.

I also acknowledge you were not looped in after the initial ahelp when I realized you were not directly involved. I should have made that clear. I apologize that my handling gave you the impression of being ignored or that I came off as dismissive. I see how that would make the situation additionally frustrating.

The basis of my decision was considering how an AI would interpret emote actions and having spoken to the AI player letting them know they should have paid more attention to their one human. When I pulled up the panel to reach out to the clown player it seemed they disconnected.

I am not sure its admin shopping if the admin handling it doesn't stay the next round and additional info can be gained. The back and forth between the the Clown and the AI coupled with no clown complaint and follow up is how it got left where it was.

I am unsure if there is anything additional I can add to this complaint.

It does raise questions on admin-shopping definition, acceptable inference on /me emotes, and the extent of communication that should be granted when ahelping on someone elses behalf. I will gladly adjust how i handle things to fall in line with how the headmins feel it should be done in the future.


I am fine with dropping this now since it was done out of misunderstandings: thanks for explaining your actions.
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Re: [Delaron] MortoSasye - AI ignoring one human is valid for some reason.

Postby capn_monkeypaw » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:50 am #571362

Resolving this per request of the complainant.


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