[Bmon] avaster - ligger escalation policy

[avaster]

When and where this incident occured (Game Server, forums, Discord): game server
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: avaster / monty Kalashnikov
Admin: bmon
ROUND ID HERE IF APPLICABLE: 209335
Detailed summary: i called a lizard a ligger and I was then killed and thrown into a morgue by a gang of lizards with no one to find me easily. i made an ahelp and the admin said that they dont have to treat me because i said ligger to a lizard and only the 'aggressor' is obligated treat someone, however escalation policy states:

If a conflict leads to violence and either participant is incapacitated, the standing participant is expected to make an effort to treat the other

calling a lizard a ligger is not a reasonable excuse to permakill / not treat someone as per escalation policy, regardless of who is aggressing

[EmpressMaia]

I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure MSO said that using slurs opened you up to being valid

[ekaterina]

Ruling in question: viewtopic.php?p=628658#p628658

As per MSO's ruling. A player expressing speciesism is valid for (initially non-lethal) escalation. It is perfectly IC to want to beat up some speciesist asshole. However, if you use speciesism to initiate conflict you can still be punished at an administrative level for winning those fights under the guise of self-defence. Admins should enforce this with the goal of preventing players from being speciesist so that they can "valid" those who respond to it with violence.

[Timberpoes]

Counterpoint: Chat shit, expect to be hit, instead get crit, revival ain't it, don't act like a tit or throw a fit when you're made to sit, simply go and touch grass for a bit.

[Archie700]

Prior to the fight, Monty called a medbay lizard the L word while asking them to open a door for them

Code: Select all

[2023-06-29 23:31:34.195] GAME-SAY: 23:31:34.195] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "yo ligger" (Medbay Storage (149,103,4))

This resulted in the lizard reporting him to the CMO and the CMO asking him to stop and splashing him with some acid that apparently didn't affect him when he lied and refused to apologise

Code: Select all

[2023-06-29 23:46:31.988] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "if you see a roboticist by the name of Monty." (Pharmacy (141,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:35.654] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "don't treat him." (Pharmacy (141,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:37.788] GAME-EMOTE: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) points at Checks-Your-Health (Pharmacy (139,124,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:42.250] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "do what?" (Pharmacy (139,124,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:45.960] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "he called me the L word." (Pharmacy (141,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:52.570] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "what" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:53.942] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "l world.." (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:46:57.285] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "word." (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:06.416] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "I mean" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:13.911] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "just referring to your species?" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:19.361] GAME-EMOTE: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) shakes his head. (Pharmacy (141,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:27.593] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "the bad L word." (Pharmacy (141,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:29.987] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "i see" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:31.759] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "get me" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:34.830] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "a full container" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:35.608] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "of" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:40.172] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "Flourosulfuric acid" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:44.198] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "ill hanle it" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))
[2023-06-29 23:47:45.780] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "handle" (Pharmacy (138,125,4))

Code: Select all

[2023-06-30 00:01:10.284] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "Hey there!" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:10.750] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "no" (Robotics Lab (172,118,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:17.076] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "what do you mean no" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:20.265] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "what do you want" (Robotics Lab (172,118,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:23.017] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "so" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:24.395] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "I heard" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:28.531] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "from an employee of mine" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:33.882] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "that you called him the L word" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:36.318] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "is that true?" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:38.283] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "no" (Robotics Lab (174,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:41.202] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "well" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:45.507] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "I have two people attesting to it" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:50.401] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "Could you" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:52.989] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "go and apologize?" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:54.406] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "at least?" (Robotics Lab (172,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:01:59.340] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "later" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:00.714] GAME-EMOTE: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:04.411] GAME-SAY: SapphoQueer/(Roxy Coveri) (Telepathy to Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov)) "I would apologize." (Research Division (177,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:04.684] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "preferably now" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:08.619] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "im busy" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:12.025] GAME-EMOTE: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) bites tongue (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:14.068] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "I am," (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:16.508] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "being nice" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:17.367] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "so" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:21.158] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "go apologize to my worker" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:26.350] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "alright?" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:27.980] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "whats their name" (Robotics Lab (172,118,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:29.183] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "ill pda" (Robotics Lab (172,118,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:32.431] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "In person" (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:48.620] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "can you not see we have better things to do" (Robotics Lab (174,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:51.192] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "i never called them that" (Robotics Lab (174,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:57.380] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "Look" (Robotics Lab (173,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:02:57.631] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "so im not apologising" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
12:03:00	ATTACK	Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) splashed Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) with Fluorosulfuric Acid (100), (NEWHP: 100)	(175, 118, 4)	Robotics Lab
[2023-06-30 00:03:02.228] GAME: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) has teleported from (Robotics Lab (175,118,4)) to (Robotics Lab (172,120,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:02.803] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "i've been in here" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:05.554] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "the whole" (Robotics Lab (176,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:06.295] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "ime" (Robotics Lab (176,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:15.710] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "so" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:16.374] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "yeah" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:17.447] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "he just" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:18.678] GAME-EMOTE: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) nods. (Medbay Treatment Center (145,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:19.266] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "poinsoned me" (Robotics Lab (176,119,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:23.233] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "where are the other lizards?" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:26.310] GAME-EMOTE: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) points at the floor (Medbay Treatment Center (144,113,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:32.253] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "who was the lizard talking about monty" (Medbay Treatment Center (145,112,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:36.809] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "me." (Medbay Treatment Center (146,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:39.023] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "amazing" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:39.029] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "CMO Just splashed poison on me" (Robotics Lab (175,121,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:40.305] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "i did it" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:43.746] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "he wont do that again" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:45.009] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "so i hope" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:46.908] GAME-EMOTE: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) nods. (Medbay Treatment Center (146,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:49.473] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "thank you." (Medbay Treatment Center (146,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:52.508] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "You are welcome" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:03:56.744] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "it wasnt poison" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:02.008] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "it was water" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:04.853] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "obviously" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:12.119] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "i am" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:15.333] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "definitely gonna be arrested" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:16.544] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "for this" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:17.275] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "but" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:04:18.724] GAME-SAY: Kuzona/(Horsehead Neb) "thats ok." (Medbay Treatment Center (144,115,4))

Later, he called another lizard the L-word, resulting in him getting the shit beaten out of him and declared soul departed.

Code: Select all

[2023-06-30 00:22:10.203] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "That one called Checks the L word" (Medbay Treatment Center (144,117,4))12,4))
[2023-06-30 00:23:56.088] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "What do you expect from a robo like him" (Medbay Treatment Center (148,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:23:57.557] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "let me the fuck  out" (Diner (145,133,4))
[2023-06-30 00:23:57.563] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "3 toxin..." (Medbay Treatment Center (145,107,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:02.263] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "god damn shit  sec" (Diner (145,136,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:09.948] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "open borgy" (Diner (144,141,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:29.831] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "yo ligger here" (Starboard Primary Hallway (165,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:32.798] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Starboard Primary Hallway (167,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:36.241] GAME: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) has teleported from (Starboard Primary Hallway (145,128,4)) to (Medbay Lobby (144,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:36.837] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Starboard Primary Hallway (166,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:37.039] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Starboard Primary Hallway (166,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:37.417] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Starboard Primary Hallway (166,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:38.739] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "take" (Starboard Primary Hallway (167,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:40.148] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Mech Bay (169,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:40.411] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Mech Bay (169,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:40.692] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Mech Bay (169,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:40.858] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) points at the cleaner grenade (Mech Bay (169,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:24:57.823] GAME-SAY: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "cchill ligger" (Starboard Primary Hallway (167,128,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:11.105] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "help" (Starboard Primary Hallway (163,129,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:13.997] GAME-WHISPER: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) "what the fuck" (Starboard Primary Hallway (161,129,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:24.981] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "and there he goes." (Medbay Treatment Center (144,113,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:25.962] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "stop" (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:27.567] GAME-EMOTE: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) nods. (Medbay Treatment Center (146,113,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:28.072] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "calling" (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:28.734] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "Yeah, git 'em!" (Starboard Primary Hallway (146,132,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:32.074] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "me" (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:32.915] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) gasps! (Starboard Primary Hallway (159,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:32.918] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) gasps! (Starboard Primary Hallway (159,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:34.294] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "a" (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:36.920] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "ligger" (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,130,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:38.025] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "yes." (Medbay Treatment Center (148,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:43.261] GAME-EMOTE: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Starboard Primary Hallway (151,129,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:46.060] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-06-30 00:25:50.278] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "HEY!" (Medbay Lobby (146,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:55.596] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "he's dead, leave him alone" (Medbay Lobby (146,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:56.620] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "he called me the L word" (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.023] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at the floor (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.184] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.343] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.545] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.767] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:25:58.869] GAME-EMOTE: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) points at Monty Kalashnikov (Medbay Lobby (149,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:01.913] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "Ah, wait, culls" (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:06.105] GAME: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) started fireman carrying Monty Kalashnikov. (Medbay Lobby (148,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:06.106] GAME: *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) was fireman carried by Culls-The-Leviathan. (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:06.118] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "oh tragic wow" (Medbay Lobby (148,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:06.417] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "Is that the guy who did it before?" (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:08.002] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "departed" (Medbay Lobby (148,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.908] GAME: *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) is no longer owning mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.909] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.930] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (146,121,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:12.994] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "unlucky" (Medbay Lobby (148,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:13.060] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "Yeah..." (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:13.096] GAME: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is no longer being ridden by Monty Kalashnikov. (Morgue (147,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:13.097] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) is no longer riding Culls-The-Leviathan. (Morgue (147,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:17.939] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "He's not the first, so..." (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:21.172] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(cockroach) chitters. (Central Medbay Maintenance (136,107,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:25.876] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "I mean.. you're not the first" (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:27.180] GAME-SAY: Y3LL0WSAUL3ED/(Royce Maildread) "the birthday centcom dudes i guess" (Medbay Treatment Center (148,106,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:28.881] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "Damn shame" (Morgue (150,122,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:29.000] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-06-30 00:26:29.071] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:31.343] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(cockroach) chitters. (Central Medbay Maintenance (136,106,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:31.899] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:26:31.912] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:32.207] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "That asshole was asking for it." (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:34.686] GAME-SAY: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) "one least scum in the world" (Medbay Lobby (145,126,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:38.424] GAME-EMOTE: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) nods. (Medbay Lobby (146,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:39.228] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(cockroach) chitters. (Central Medbay Maintenance (136,107,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:39.935] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "Excuse me, doctor?" (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:41.807] GAME-EMOTE: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) nods. (Medbay Treatment Center (148,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:43.007] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(cockroach) chitters. (Central Medbay Maintenance (135,106,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:43.008] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(cockroach) chitters. (Central Medbay Maintenance (136,107,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:44.005] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "I need a consult" (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:47.727] GAME-ACCESS: Logout: Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars)
[2023-06-30 00:26:47.731] GAME: Fren256[DC]/(Sails-The-Stars) Fren256[DC]/(Sails-The-Stars) is no longer owning mob Sails-The-Stars(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Starboard Primary Hallway (160,127,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:51.242] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "The roboticist met an unfortunate accident." (Medbay Treatment Center (146,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:52.263] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-06-30 00:26:52.330] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:52.898] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "Shhh" (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:53.613] GAME-EMOTE: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) points at Has-No-Pigment (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:53.765] GAME-EMOTE: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) points at Has-No-Pigment (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:58.447] GAME-EMOTE: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) nods. (Medbay Treatment Center (146,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:01.559] GAME-SAY: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) "aaah, alright." (Medbay Treatment Center (146,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:02.613] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:27:02.625] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:27:05.407] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "huh?" (Medbay Treatment Center (148,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:06.434] GAME-EMOTE: Overwatch_voice/(Has-No-Pigment) grins. (Medbay Treatment Center (147,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:11.620] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "got a sec?" (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:14.772] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "uh" (Medbay Treatment Center (148,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:27:16.842] GAME-EMOTE: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) points at Bartholomew Davis (Medbay Treatment Center (147,116,4))
[2023-06-30 00:28:04.723] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "Sorry I'm still a novice... but" (Morgue (147,121,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:12.770] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "I believe this corpse has signs of their soul departing, right?" (Morgue (147,121,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:20.278] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-06-30 00:28:20.346] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Morgue (150,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:22.221] GAME-SAY: ItzRiumz/(Checks-Your-Health) "I think so." (Morgue (150,121,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:24.630] GAME-SAY: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) "Tragic" (Morgue (150,120,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:32.656] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:28:32.672] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:41.003] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-06-30 00:28:41.078] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:42.980] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:28:42.991] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (149,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:28:50.688] GAME-SAY: Doomlolcat/(Dustan Hache) "no!" (Medbay Treatment Center (143,117,4))
[2023-06-30 00:28:55.439] GAME-EMOTE: Korusho/(Khal-Thrask) coughs! (Medbay Treatment Center (142,115,4))
[2023-06-30 00:28:59.123] GAME-COMPAT: ADMIN: Bmon/(Jordan Reay) checked the individual player panel for Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan).

Attack logs of that encounter, including stripping in morgue.

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12:24:20	ATTACK	Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) primed a cleaner grenade at Medbay Lobby (146,126,4) containing: (beaker 1 : ); (beaker 2 : );.	(146, 126, 4)	Medbay Lobby
12:24:20	ATTACK	Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has thrown the cleaner grenade	(146, 127, 4)	Medbay Lobby
12:24:20	ATTACK	Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) threw and hit 1jovemtr00/(Nicklas Winter) with the cleaner grenade (NEWHP: 100)	(146, 127, 4)	Medbay Lobby
12:24:39	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) shoved Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 96)	(167, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:42	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) shoved Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 96)	(169, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:46	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicks Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 96)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:46	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) shoved Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 96)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:47	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) shoved Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 96)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:48	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 96)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:49	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 93)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:49	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 80)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:50	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 80)	(164, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:51	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) punched Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 72.5)	(165, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:52	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 72.5)	(163, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:53	ATTACK	Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) primed a cleaner grenade at Starboard Primary Hallway (163,128,4) containing: (beaker 1 : Fluorosurfactant, 40); (beaker 2 : Water, 40 | Space Cleaner, 10);.	(163, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:55	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 70.5)	(165, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:56	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 53.5)	(166, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:56	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 68.5)	(166, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:57	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 53.5)	(168, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:58	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 45.5)	(168, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:24:59	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 43.3)	(169, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:00	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 37.3)	(169, 127, 4)	Mech Bay
12:25:00	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 25.3)	(169, 127, 4)	Mech Bay
12:25:02	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 25.3)	(169, 127, 4)	Mech Bay
12:25:03	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 23.3)	(169, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:04	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 17.3)	(169, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:05	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 11.3)	(168, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:07	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: 4.5)	(167, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:09	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -1.5)	(164, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:09	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -14.5)	(164, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:12	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -14.5)	(162, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:13	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -16.5)	(161, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:15	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -19.5)	(161, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:15	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -27)	(161, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:17	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -27)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:17	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -41)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:18	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -41)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:19	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -48)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:21	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -53.4)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:30	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -60.4)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:34	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -68.1)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:34	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) got a stun punch with their previous punch Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -81.1)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:37	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -81.7)	(160, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:38	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) grabbed Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) passive grab (NEWHP: -87.7)	(159, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:43	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -89.1)	(150, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:43	ATTACK	Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has died (BRUTE: 204.4, BURN: 0, TOX: 4, OXY: 4.66667, CLONE: 0)	(151, 129, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:25:45	ATTACK	Fren256/(Sails-The-Stars) kicked Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) (NEWHP: -103.1)	(147, 128, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
12:26:13	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) thrown Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) grab from tile in Morgue (147,119,3) towards tile at Morgue (150,119,3) (NEWHP: -125.1)	(147, 119, 3)	Morgue
12:26:17	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the roboticist's jumpsuit.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:17	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the robotics winter coat.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:17	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the skull bandana.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:18	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the welding helmet.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:18	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the diagnostic HUD.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:18	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the science radio headset.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:18	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the black gloves.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:19	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the black shoes.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:19	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the toolbelt.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:19	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of Monty Kalashnikov (Roboticist).	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:19	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is stripping Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the scientist satchel.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:20	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the black shoes.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:20	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the diagnostic HUD.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:20	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the black gloves.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:21	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the roboticist's jumpsuit.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:21	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the robotics winter coat.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:21	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the skull bandana.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:21	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the welding helmet.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:22	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the science radio headset.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue
12:26:23	ATTACK	Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) has stripped Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) of the scientist satchel.	(150, 120, 3)	Morgue

[Chadley]

Per MSO/Headmin Rulings: viewtopic.php?p=628658#p628658

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As per MSO's ruling. A player expressing speciesism is valid for (initially non-lethal) escalation. It is perfectly IC to want to beat up some speciesist asshole. However, if you use speciesism to initiate conflict you can still be punished at an administrative level for winning those fights under the guise of self-defence. Admins should enforce this with the goal of preventing players from being speciesist so that they can "valid" those who respond to it with violence.

In this situation, already they've pushed it. It's for non-lethal unless the person escalates per the logs, Monty was beaten to death without even retaliating. This is already lethal escalation.

Benefit of the doubt. Let's say they DID have the right to go lethal. This is our policy here.

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As a non-antagonist you may begin conflict with another player with valid reason (refusal of critical services, belligerent attitude, etc) OR if it does not excessively interfere with their ability to do their job. Whomever you engage is entitled to respond to your actions. If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action.

However, they weren't. They were dumped in the Morgue by one of the Lizards, which most definitely does NOT comply with the policy.

► Show Spoiler

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[2023-06-30 00:26:06.105] GAME: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) started fireman carrying Monty Kalashnikov. (Medbay Lobby (148,123,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:06.106] GAME: *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) was fireman carried by Culls-The-Leviathan. (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.908] GAME: *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) *no key*/(Monty Kalashnikov) is no longer owning mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/dead/observer) (Medbay Lobby (147,124,4))
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.909] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-06-30 00:26:10.930] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) Client Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) has taken ownership of mob Monty Kalashnikov(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Morgue (146,121,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:13.096] GAME: Britgrenadier1/(Culls-The-Leviathan) is no longer being ridden by Monty Kalashnikov. (Morgue (147,119,3))
[2023-06-30 00:26:13.097] GAME: Avaster/(Monty Kalashnikov) is no longer riding Culls-The-Leviathan. (Morgue (147,119,3))

In the world where Monty was valid, even then, what they did violates it as they've essentially attempted to RR him.

ADDENDUM:

This is Manuel, rules are tighter here.

[Timberpoes]

Chadley is very much correct. The current ruling on this topic is from this discussion during the Rave/Tattle/Nameless term.

They're also correct in that on Manuel, the rules are tighter.

Misdoubtful: Temporary absence

Timberpoes: Do not uphold complaint
People use ligger precisely because they know it negatively impacts other people not just ICly, but OOCly as well.

I don't really care much for the current ruling. Not out of a blatant disregard for the rule of law or anything, but just because I have only limited influence over it as it stems from Host diktat. If I could prohibit its use on our RP servers entirely, I would vote for that in a heartbeat.

So my own approach is to respect the spirit of the ruling, that ligger has historical soul roots in the edgy past of tgstation and that our host wishes for players to have special protections to not be prohibited from saying it IC. But to also respect the right of players to get pissed off at people that use the word so inexorably linked to the word nigger. I have always treated players that use ligger as being simply valid for round removal. Saying it and getting rekt is the most IC of IC issues.

I simply will not uphold any admin complaint where a player on any of our servers drops the ligger word, gets deleted by some players for doing so, then comes crying to admins and gets a big fat IC issue.

Kieth4: Undecided

[Timberpoes - I'm writing this on behalf of Kieth. If you're reading it, it has had his approval.]

Kieth's stance is far more sensible than mine. He quite rightfully is concerned that the ruling is written in one way, but is being enforced in another very different way.

He looked into the facts behind the incident and gave it a lot more thought than I did, and is still somewhat undecided on how this should conclude.

Kieth states that Avaster was given options and RP-friendly solutions IC to resolve this issue such as being asked to apologise and being engaged with on an RP level. They chose not to partake in this exercise, lied and continued doing it. This would tend to suggest that the spirit of RP and MRP was upheld.

He's falling short of genuinely calling it an IC issue and dismissing the complaint on that basis because, very simply, the current ruling on escalation for using ligger doesn't back this result up.

Kieth has expressed an interest in amending the ruling via policy discussion to better align with how the administration tends to approach players using ligger ICly.

MrStonedOne: Host's peanut thread input

MSO gave a take in the peanut thread which I'm popping here for archival purposes.

...

As for the round. I don't see what the fuss is about. Everybody should be happy.

The free speech people should be happy. I kept lame arguments about "effort" and "one letter away" from being used to curtail speech.
and
The Limit speech people should be happy. Somebody who said a nono word and alienated themselves from the people who could save them died because of their hate when one of those people figuratively said they couldn't feel a pulse and declared them doa. Like this is the perfect allegory for racism, how can you be mad?

What's the problem?

...