[CrimsonVision]Tunderchief et al-Fluking an Ops round

[Tunder]

Time incident occurred: Approximately 6:45PM EST

Crew Major Victory
The Research Staff has saved the disc and stopped the Cyber Syndicate Operatives!
The syndicate operatives were:
Madeppymage was Frank FLUKE FLOPS (died)
Skyglazer was Emilio FLUKE FLOPS (died)
UndisputedOfTheEast was Jim FLUKE FLOPS (died)
The-White-Crayon was Rube FLUKE FLOPS (died)
Tunderchief was August FLUKE FLOPS (survived)
Srifenbyxp was Dick Dick (survived)

From what I have been told by Razharas(although given the immediate coverup that followed I can't be sure of what happened), CrimsonVision spawned Srifenbyxp as(EDIT: Apparently it was a single Operative AI mob directly in front of the HOP Office, which is somehow even less responsible as it actively blows the round without any chance of subterfuge) a single Operative on a 50+ crew station soon after round start during a normal Nuke Ops round to go murderbone, supposedly without so much as checking the actual roundtype, which is likely bullshit as I have never heard of this happening in all my years of being here. As it happened to be an actual Nuke Ops round, the single admin-spawned operative was quickly caught after an abortive murderbone, the crew was armed, and the shuttle was called before the actual operative team ever set foot on the station.

The worst part was not that it happened, but that after the round ended, a few of the admins and coders who were present(specifically ThatSlyFox) actively attempted to conceal this event in front of the playerbase, and posted in OOC calling the operatives who had walked into a nest of vipers 'fluke ops' even though it had been a member of the administration who actively decided to derail the round for them in the first place.

CrimsonVision has yet to apologize to anyone involved, and should not be given the ability to meddle with rounds if he/she cannot be bothered to so much as check the roundtype before hitting buttons.

[Remie Richards]

Correcting your blatant inaccuracies here.
Srifenbyxp was not involved, It was an AI, specifically /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/syndicate/ranged/space.

Already explained my case to you, I didn't see the round type, so the only fuck up here is me not seeing the round. Trying to spin it that I or the other admins/coders has lied to you on this matter is not going to help you, there was no concealing of any sort. I didn't check the round type, for whatever reason, I'm not going to blame it on this but I've spent 90% of my time on Basil, where nukeops doesn't pop up, which leaves ling and traitor.

Didn't apologise because you yourself said the apology wouldn't make a difference, if you belittle the apology before it's given it doesn't get given.

[Tunder]

Correcting your blatant inaccuracies here.
Srifenbyxp was not involved, It was an AI, specifically /mob/living/simple_animal/hostile/syndicate/ranged/space.

Already explained my case to you, I didn't see the round type, so the only fuck up here is me not seeing the round. Trying to spin it that I or the other admins/coders has lied to you on this matter is not going to help you, there was no concealing of any sort. I didn't check the round type, for whatever reason, I'm not going to blame it on this but I've spent 90% of my time on Basil, where nukeops doesn't pop up, which leaves ling and traitor.

Didn't apologise because you yourself said the apology wouldn't make a difference, if you belittle the apology before it's given it doesn't get given.

I like how you were waiting for the post to do some damage control.

You ruined the round, and you had Razharas largely speak for you. I don't accept proxy apologies.

[Vekter]

Oh, okay. Remie is Crimson. TIL.

This was a pretty big fuckup, Remie. Why spawn the fake op in the first place? You guys aren't supposed to be spawning mobs and shit without asking us anyway, last I checked.

[Remie Richards]

Then Vekter your check is outdated, unless things have changed, the stance was that coders could do anything admins could so long as it didn't ruin the round, this was SoS's stance, An0n3 to my knowledge made no changes to this and MSO hasn't spoken about it all to my knowledge.

Tunder, I didn't wait for the post to do "damage control" where as in this case it's more corrections given you've gotten parts wrong as I've already explained, I did the same "damage control" in PMs on the server, When I spoke up to you you decided to keep talking to Razharas instead, so that one is on you I'm afraid (And Razharas's apology (while not needed) came from him, there was no provocation)

[Tsaricide]

Pretty sure one of the coders (wj or raz) got in shit when they kept spawning a bunch of stuff.

I agree with Vekter though.

[Vekter]

Then Vekter your check is outdated, unless things have changed, the stance was that coders could do anything admins could so long as it didn't ruin the round, this was SoS's stance, An0n3 to my knowledge made no changes to this and MSO hasn't spoken about it all to my knowledge.

Tunder, I didn't wait for the post to do "damage control" where as in this case it's more corrections given you've gotten parts wrong as I've already explained, I did the same "damage control" in PMs on the server, When I spoke up to you you decided to keep talking to Razharas instead, so that one is on you I'm afraid (And Razharas's apology (while not needed) came from him, there was no provocation)

Fair enough. I'm willing to say this was just a mistake. Truth be told, the ops kinda fluked regardless, so...

[RG4]

Then Vekter your check is outdated, unless things have changed, the stance was that coders could do anything admins could so long as it didn't ruin the round, this was SoS's stance, An0n3 to my knowledge made no changes to this and MSO hasn't spoken about it all to my knowledge.

Tunder, I didn't wait for the post to do "damage control" where as in this case it's more corrections given you've gotten parts wrong as I've already explained, I did the same "damage control" in PMs on the server, When I spoke up to you you decided to keep talking to Razharas instead, so that one is on you I'm afraid (And Razharas's apology (while not needed) came from him, there was no provocation)

Fair enough. I'm willing to say this was just a mistake. Truth be told, the ops kinda fluked regardless, so...

It's VERY easy to fluke when the entire station is alerted before you even leave the syndie base, isn't it?

[Stickymayhem]

I've got a personal gripe with coders doing eventy things but remie has been pretty much flawless in all the time I've seen them on the server, and has run and assisted in some pretty great events.

This is clearly a mistake that any admin would get shit for too. Frankly it is in no way indicative of their usual use of their rank and I'm happy to resolve this as a reminder to be careful.

This was clearly a mistake, but it's their first and ultimately a fairly minor one.

[Tunder]

Spawning a pug or a friendly space carp is one thing, spawning hardsuited Operatives on a Nuke Ops round or bloblings at round start of a Blob round is simply not cool, it ruins the round by removing the element of surprise that is absolutely necessary in order for the antag to have a fighting chance, and for the round to be enjoyable as a whole.

Frankly, the idea that an Operative mob which is very rarely used was spawned directly in front of a crowded HOP office during an Ops round is far too coincidental for comfort.

Then Vekter your check is outdated, unless things have changed, the stance was that coders could do anything admins could so long as it didn't ruin the round, this was SoS's stance, An0n3 to my knowledge made no changes to this and MSO hasn't spoken about it all to my knowledge.

Tunder, I didn't wait for the post to do "damage control" where as in this case it's more corrections given you've gotten parts wrong as I've already explained, I did the same "damage control" in PMs on the server, When I spoke up to you you decided to keep talking to Razharas instead, so that one is on you I'm afraid (And Razharas's apology (while not needed) came from him, there was no provocation)

Fair enough. I'm willing to say this was just a mistake. Truth be told, the ops kinda fluked regardless, so...

This is entirely subjective, and the fact was that our entire plan, which revolved around sneaking into the station undetected, was made unsalvageable by the entire crew arming up and actively looking for 'Nuke Ops' through no fault of our own. We would have subverted the AI and had it kill comms while the Secborg stuncuffed and delivered the Captain and disk to us.


I didn't bring this up to get anyone penalized, I pointed it out because of how toxic the defensive response by the administrators and coders who were present was, which seems to be par for the course these days.

[Hibbles]

I didn't bring this up to get anyone penalized, I pointed it out because of how toxic the defensive response by the administrators and coders who were present was, which seems to be par for the course these days.

You're a major reason for the toxicity, Tunder, and you have been for an astounding length of time.

If you have a problem with it, try addressing the plank in your own eye before the mote on others'. Your belief that you Need to act like a jerk to be heard is proven literally false by all the people around you in these very subforums who don't act like you and

Spoiler:

who are still heard regardless

And the reason I'm addressing this whereas I wouldn't bother with others is I know you're not doing it on purpose, or just to be a jerk. But please please please consider what I've said.

[Tunder]

I didn't bring this up to get anyone penalized, I pointed it out because of how toxic the defensive response by the administrators and coders who were present was, which seems to be par for the course these days.

You're a major reason for the toxicity, Tunder, and you have been for an astounding length of time.

If you have a problem with it, try addressing the plank in your own eye before the mote on others'. Your belief that you Need to act like a jerk to be heard is proven literally false by all the people around you in these very subforums who don't act like you and

Spoiler:

who are still heard regardless

And the reason I'm addressing this whereas I wouldn't bother with others is I know you're not doing it on purpose, or just to be a jerk. But please please please consider what I've said.

HBL, you of all people should know that if I wasn't so vocal I would've been strung up based on poor investigation and personal opinion a long time ago. I hold the administration to a standard, and I call it as I see it, and while I may come off as heated if I get bwoinked for seemingly innocuous actions or I cop an unfair ban, that's frustration talking and I'm not typically a jerk unless the situation calls for it. I'm not going to pretend that coders and admins covering in OOC for somebody who ruined a round is acceptable. If it was a mistake, okay, mistakes happen, but the reaction to that mistake from your side of the field was iffy at best. Admins who ruin a round should have to deal with the same OOC walk of shame that Fluke Ops do, it's only fair.

That's all, you can close this thread now.

[Steelpoint]

This whole situation seems to stem from a lack of understanding basic administration functions.

From the small time frame I was a trialadmin I would always check the game type when the round started before anything actually happened. This is so that I knew what was going to happen and I could adjust my administration accordingly.

Yet in this case it appears Remie took the action to spawn in a NPC nuke op, which would logically lead to the crew calling the shuttle and defending the nuke disk, during a nuke ops round.

That is the worst possible time to spawn in a NPC nuke op to make the round appear to be a nuclear round and it completely screws over not only the nuke ops but also the entire round.

[Stickymayhem]

I had a chat with them and this is resolved.

If they want to run events they'll be doing so with admins for the next few weeks so they have the opportunity to pick up some of the good habits we teach our trialmins.

As for the toxicity: I believe firmly that admins should be polite to players who are polite to them. This isn't a service job and they don't have to be pleasant to unpleasant people. Ultimately you are playing on a game or server where people treating each other like shit, good-naturedly or not, is common-place and acceptable.

There are of course limits, such as in the pasikonik doctrine and adminPMs. No one wants to ask you about a situation politely and get "FUCK YOU CONSPIRACY NIGGAS" right back.

Being a jerk in-character is fine to a point, but being a jerk out of character is not welcome at all.