[Ausops] (4 Merged threads)

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:21 pm #140032

EDIT: I've merged the 4 threads to keep everything in one place (so people don't have to skip between them all to reference things).
In future if an admin locks a thread but you need to add/want to reopen a topic ASK A MOD OR ADMIN to reopen it. You don't need to remake the thread, you can even mention it was locked. But multiple threads on the same topic are confusing. Cheers ~ PAS

Byond account and character name: Tornadium - Multiple Names
Admin: Ausops
Time incident occured: 12:15PM GMT
Detailed summary:

Locked my appeal post : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5390

Not bothering to even speak to me about it. I make a post that to sum it up says administrating random searches is impossible because a lot of people lie and you will ban too many innocent players and gut security if you try to enforce administrative policy on people who claim random searches.

Apparently with my "History" this is the final straw.

What history? I had two notes in two years, one of them was me admitting to a mistake and taking a ban for it. Then the security clusterfuck a few months back where every single ban was overturned and it was even proven that ADMINS were lying in order to get me banned due to personal dislike.

You think I'm an angry, confrontational and vindictive person, Well sorry to say if you speak to people in the manner you speak to people you can't be surprised if people react in the same way with you. Of course I'm confrontational, I'm sorry that me wanting to directly deal with something instead of pussyfooting about it makes me unsuited to play on this server.

I'm remaking my appeal, You're basically just banning me because you personally don't like me.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:32 pm #140043

too bad. Rule 0.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:38 pm #140046

Trying to get a hold of MSO or someone.

Previous Complaint here : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5391

Appeal 1 : https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... =34&t=5390
Appeal 2 : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5392

I mean honestly? Is this how headmins are behaving now?

Closing complaints made about them and appeals with no discussion or justification?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:40 pm #140047

Your appeals are being closed for a reason. It would be a good idea to stop.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:41 pm #140048

Saegrimr wrote:Your appeals are being closed for a reason. It would be a good idea to stop.

No they have not,

The reasoning for my ban has not been made clear. I made a post that everyone can clearly see is talking about attempting to admin random searches. I did nothing at all to warrant a permanent ban.

My complaints are getting locked too with a simple "No". Are admins even allowed to close complaints about themselves?

I mean honestly?

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:43 pm #140049

Not to be an ass, but closing a complaint that is against yourself before anyone can even reply just doesn't make any sense.

edit: I would also like to point out that I still find it hasn't been made clear at all what this "final straw" was that keeps being referenced.

TheNightingale · Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:43 pm

The original post wasn't saying that Tornadium lies to admins about random searches, it was saying that people can lie to admins about random searches. That Tornadium is one of them wasn't stated.

Even if the ban is valid under Rule 0, it'd probably be best to keep the complaints open so it doesn't look like an abuse of power - and as a Rule 0 ban, he can complain about it.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:45 pm #140051

TheNightingale wrote:The original post wasn't saying that Tornadium lies to admins about random searches, it was saying that people can lie to admins about random searches. That Tornadium is one of them wasn't stated.

Even if the ban is valid under Rule 0, it'd probably be best to keep the complaints open so it doesn't look like an abuse of power - and as a Rule 0 ban, he can complain about it.

I'm not sure how any of this is valid under role 0 since I didn't do anything. The trigger was me calling the idea of trying to regulate something which is based entirely on the witness testimony of both parties retarded. It will always been the officers word against the other person.

I don't see how that is me being a dick, that's just stating a fact.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:49 pm #140052

CPTANT wrote:Not to be an ass, but closing a complaint that is against yourself before anyone can even reply just doesn't make any sense.

edit: I would also like to point out that I still find it hasn't been made clear at all what this "final straw" was that keeps being referenced.

The post I made in the policy discussion was the "final straw".

Not sure what exactly is wrong with that post.

Tsaricide · Post by **Tsaricide** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:51 pm #140053

>locking your own admin complaint

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:26 pm #140061

Seems I was also per-emptively banned from Support Bus before I even tried to join it.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:56 pm #140079

good point tsar but nothing will come of it because even if I am deadminned and tornadium reinstated with full apologies by the rest of adminbus, it won't matter to me. That being said, he's not a player that should have been taken off his first perma in the first place.

Go do something else.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:01 pm #140081

imblyings wrote:good point tsar but nothing will come of it because even if I am deadminned and tornadium reinstated with full apologies by the rest of adminbus, it won't matter to me. That being said, he's not a player that should have been taken off his first perma in the first place.

Go do something else.

I was never perma'd before the recent security issue. The permaban I received was because admins LIED in order to try to get a permaban to stick.

The way you are handling this is a joke to be honest, You're banning me literally because I disagreed with you in a policy thread.

You still haven't even told me why a post that everyone can see isn't against the rules or did anything wrong suddenly makes you think it's okay to permanently stop me playing on the server.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:02 pm #140082

don't care, I haven't lied, you've been rule 0'd, goodbye.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:03 pm #140083

imblyings wrote:don't care, I haven't lied, you've been rule 0'd, goodbye.

I've been rule zero'd because I DISAGREED WITH YOU IN A POLICY THREAD.

Seriously?

Are you trying to justify a permanent ban because I made a post that disagreed with your rationale? The ban reason was where you lied because this has nothing to do with how I play the game.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:12 pm #140088

I'm assuming I'll have to go directly to MSO about this?

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:15 pm #140094

-snip-

Sorry double post.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:48 pm #140136

Goodbye tornadium, see you on singulo

like puunches you got rule zeroed because nobody likes you.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:56 pm #140141

oranges wrote:Goodbye tornadium, see you on singulo

like puunches you got rule zeroed because nobody likes you.

What about me making a policy discussion post about how enforcing search policy is a bad idea a rule 0 issue?

Like is that really how we want TG to be portrayed? Disagree with a headmin and you get permabanned for highlighting issues with his idea?

Makes absolutely no sense, especially when my so called History is an influencing factor of notes that SHOULD have been removed.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:07 pm #140142

you don't even seem to understand and thats sad

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:10 pm #140143

oranges wrote:you don't even seem to understand and thats sad

What's sad?

I didn't do anything at all worthy of getting permad. Hell I didn't do anything worthy of ANYTHING happening, the post I made was in no way dickish it was simply stating a fact.

The ban was based on me making a post that didn't break rule 0, the bans that were used as justification should have had their notes removed because they were ruled as horseshit bans. They weren't like shortened or whatever they were straight up removed because they were bad bans.

The ban wasn't even triggered by anything. He literally just decided he didn't like me and banned me. Last I checked headmins don't just perma people because of personal dislike. Nothing I did was dickish, I did nothing that broke rule 0 and I didn't do ANYTHING ingame to warrant a permanent ban from the server.

Edit : Bad Grammar.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:12 pm #140144

Tornadium wrote:
oranges wrote:
don't do anything at all worthy of getting permad

Yep.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:14 pm #140145

Zilenan91 wrote:
Tornadium wrote:
oranges wrote:
don't do anything at all worthy of getting permad

Tornadium wrote:
oranges wrote:
don't do anything at all worthy of getting permad

Tornadium wrote:
oranges wrote:
don't do anything at all worthy of getting permad

Tornadium wrote:
oranges wrote:
don't do anything at all worthy of getting permad

Yep.

Typing on a phone is hard, Thanks for pointing that out lol.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:16 pm #140147

I find it hard to believe you missed my point.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:17 pm #140150

Zilenan91 wrote:I find it hard to believe you missed my point.

What was it? That I said don't do anything rather than didn't do anything?

I clarified that I didn't actually do anything worth of action anywhere, forums or ingame to trigger this ban. Its like someone takes a personal dislike, person has no issues and doesn't do anything and suddenly gets tacked with a perma because they felt like doing it.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:20 pm #140155

Holy shit you're so fucking dense

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:20 pm #140156

Zilenan91 wrote:Holy shit you're so fucking dense

Then please, explain it.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:54 pm #140167

Ok we all know Tornadium has been a PITA more than once.

But perma banning him when the direct cause is someone misreading a forum post of him in policy discussion is kinda sad.

Screemonster · Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:57 pm

CPTANT wrote:Ok we all know Tornadium has been a PITA more than once.

But perma banning him when the direct cause is someone misreading a forum post of him in policy discussion is kinda sad.

Quoting from singulo (bad idea I know)

>>61363
No it was the one where he says you can just lie to admins when asked why you randomly searched a guy and make up a bullshit excuse because no one can prove you did not have that bullshit reason
I assume he finally got banned for that bullshit because he constantly lies when questioned why he permabrigged / killed someone as security
See: That one time where he killed a guy he thought was a cultist for having a paper - that paper did not exist and he lied about it being there because he knew admins can't prove the paper did not exist, due to the way the logging works
tl;dr he lies to admins because they can't prove he's not due to the way stuff is logged + posting about lying to admins to make up a bullshit reason to search someone because they can't prove you wrong = long overdue perma

Whether this is entirely accurate or not, a post that could be taken as encouraging sec players to just lie to admins whenever they get bwoinked because the admins can't prove anything one way or the other is a pretty poor idea.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:58 pm #140170

Oh yeah, I won't deny I can be an asshole. Everyone can be an asshole.

Can we at least be clear that this ban is because someone felt there was enough justification to completely misinterpret and exaggerate what I said in a forum post in order to justify and ban they have wanted for a long time?

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:02 pm #140171

Screemonster wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Ok we all know Tornadium has been a PITA more than once.

But perma banning him when the direct cause is someone misreading a forum post of him in policy discussion is kinda sad.
Quoting from singulo (bad idea I know)

>>61363
No it was the one where he says you can just lie to admins when asked why you randomly searched a guy and make up a bullshit excuse because no one can prove you did not have that bullshit reason
I assume he finally got banned for that bullshit because he constantly lies when questioned why he permabrigged / killed someone as security
See: That one time where he killed a guy he thought was a cultist for having a paper - that paper did not exist and he lied about it being there because he knew admins can't prove the paper did not exist, due to the way the logging works
tl;dr he lies to admins because they can't prove he's not due to the way stuff is logged + posting about lying to admins to make up a bullshit reason to search someone because they can't prove you wrong = long overdue perma
Whether this is entirely accurate or not, a post that could be taken as encouraging sec players to just lie to admins whenever they get bwoinked because the admins can't prove anything one way or the other is a pretty poor idea.

Oh wow.

Really? I make a post pointing out something that someone had to point out and because it's me I get perma'd because people want to assume I lie to admins?

Why on earth would I actively come out and say "Oh yeah I lie to you, you can't do anything. Sucks huh?". Any reasonable human being would read what I said and understand the meaning. It is next to impossible to police a policy on random searches because people lie.

Saying that I was actively fucking encouraging that behavior after calling it bullshit is quite a stretch.

With regards to that singulo post, That's a gross oversimplification.

The dude also did have paper, that came out a day or two later. So there wasn't actually any lies being told there. I made a mistake after seeing two dudes be shifty and one of them had paper in their hand. I ate a ban for that. No lies were told at the end of the day and that was proven.

It's somewhat hilarious how I'm now being accused of constantly lying when admins DELIBERATELY lied about what I did in an attempt to make a permaban stick.

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:49 am #140215

Tornadium wrote:Oh yeah, I won't deny I can be an asshole. Everyone can be an asshole.

Can we at least be clear that this ban is because someone felt there was enough justification to completely misinterpret and exaggerate what I said in a forum post in order to justify and ban they have wanted for a long time?

Yeah but you're an asshole all the time. He already rule zero'ed you even if the original reason was BS, please just go nice and quiet into that good night.

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:18 am

lmao bye tornadium, see you on the other side brother.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:40 am #140249

I'm a fan of dubs and there has never been a better chance to score dub dubs, one for appeals and one for complaints.

I will reiterate though, that this is just me. I'm quite sure other admins will never have to resort to what I'm doing now, nor would they break standards to do so.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:32 am #140284

Well time for round 3.

Other admins and the other two headmins even agree you shouldn't be fucking closing your own admin complaints dude.

So kindly stop doing it. Get one of the other two to close it if they really want to but considering how perplexed they are about this ban they'll probably at least think about it before they do it.

Previous Complaint here : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5391
Previous Complaint 2 Here : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5394

Appeal 1 : https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... =34&t=5390
Appeal 2 : viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5392

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:36 am

please go

onleavedontatme · Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:38 am

Tornadium wrote:shouldn't be fucking closing your own admin complaints dude.

Fine I'll do it then

EDIT: Nevermind they stole my mod powers

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:43 am #140288

Why are you so desperate to close this?

I went into IRC and last night and spoke to a bunch of people and everyone is perplexed as fuck as to why I'm getting rule 0'd.

Even the other headmins said that the post wasn't worthy of a Rule 0.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:47 am #140289

You know at this point you might just be better off finding another server to play on until things cool down a bit.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:57 am #140292

Jacough wrote:You know at this point you might just be better off finding another server to play on until things cool down a bit.

I'd like to find out what this is actually about to be honest about it.

This is the flimsiest rule zero that I've ever seen. Neither headmin to my knowledge understands or agrees with it and several admins acknowledged that it's basically just down to Ausops and his group of friends personally not liking me.

The post I made wasn't even a bad post or a dickish post.

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:15 am

I don't think the post is the issue at all

The ban reason itself is that you're just not a good player

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:15 am #140297

There's a point where you need to learn to just fuck off.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:17 am #140298

TechnoAlchemist wrote:I don't think the post is the issue at all

The ban reason itself is that you're just not a good player

Based on what though?

This ban was not triggered by anything I did ingame. All of the so called "Bans" I had were overturned because they were shit so there is absolutely nothing wrong with my ingame conduct.

If another headmin is even perplexed as fuck as to why this is happening I think it warrants more than a "nope, lock".

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:24 am #140299

Well, consensus among those admins posting here seems to be - and correct me on that - that you're not awful for any one specific action that is bannable, but for the sum total.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:25 am #140301

Ok. since I can apparently ask the same question in 3 different trheads without anyone taking the effort to give a decent answer:

Can we PLEASE finally discuss why Tornadium was banned in the first place for a misread forum post?

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:27 am #140302

DemonFiren wrote:Well, consensus among those admins posting here seems to be - and correct me on that - that you're not awful for any one specific action that is bannable, but for the sum total.

Except in the ban reason it was justified with my "history" which should have been wiped out because every ban or job ban I had was overruled because the bans were utter shit and based on admin lying to try to get them to stick.

So how can bans where I did nothing wrong, were based on lies and overturned be used against me?

This is entirely based on me not rolling over and eating shit and accepting the previous bans I got. That was made perfectly clear last night. Certain admins are pissed at me because I didn't drop the issue and harbor that grudge.

The other two headmins are confused and don't think I should be rule 0'd as do other admins. I at least want a fair accounting and for Loller and Jordie to talk to Ausops before you just close this shit again.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:29 am #140303

CPTANT wrote:Ok. since I can apparently ask the same question in 3 different trheads without anyone taking the effort to give a decent answer:

Can we PLEASE finally discuss why Tornadium was banned in the first place for a misread forum post?

There is no answer that's the thing.

Ausops and Saeg in particular have been hunting for a reason to drop a perma on me for a while now and have been pretty open about doing it.

Loller is perplexed by the ban and wonders why of all things this triggered a rule 0. I hadn't been playing in the last week or so, so I can't imagine anything I did ingame triggered this kind of response. Most other people read my post for what it was, pointing out that you can't police a system based on witness testimony.

Hell even J_Madison and Oranges acknowledged it had fucking nothing to do with the post, Just what people could forcefully interpret to justify a ban that they wanted for a long time because I didn't roll over and accept getting wrongfully banned.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:30 am #140304

Ausops, For fuck sake don't lock this one.

Of course Ikarrus posts this because he finally got the ban he wanted from 2012.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ad#p140305

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:37 am #140308

>I've never had a legit ban or note honest
>all those bans were based on lies by boogeymen admins
>I'm innocent and not a detriment to tg why would you ever think this
>Hey

You should have been reperma'd the moment you put admins through bullshit that you've been perma'd in the past for, when dealing with your validhunting ban earlier. Nobody really wants to deal with your shit, I had to do it then because I'm dumb enough to take the role of headmin and these things eventually end up on my plate.

>cptant
>listening to Tornadium's posts
>taking them seriously
>thinking Tornadium is self-aware enough to realize why he's being rule 0'd
>actually taking his blatant lies towards all his bans being overturned to be fact

No the more you let him talk, the messier this mess gets. It's the kind of problem you simply eject from a community, instead of letting it fester. MSO/other headmins are free to take me off the txt but they should think twice before unbanning him.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:39 am #140310

Tornadium wrote:Ausops, For fuck sake don't lock this one.

Of course Ikarrus posts this because he finally got the ban he wanted from 2012.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ad#p140305

have a (You)