[Isratosh]Antag Favoritism, Badminery

[Yakumo_Chen]

So I was in a lowppop Tatorling round, and rolled traitor. I started doing research but had to take a shit, but when I came back I was DNA Swapped to Terry McFall and I was a Ratavar Cultist. Figured badmins but whatever. I get to work on researching posibrains for borgs after doing my objective.

I wanted a personal healer borg and I'm still a traitor with a PDA, so I PM admins if I have to pay attention to cultshit

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PM to-Admins: since I'm a tator, what takes priority here
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: Let's go with traitor
-- Administrator private message --
Admin PM from-Isratosh: But just don't kill cultists I suppose

Admins gave me the go-ahead, I'm building my borg and have an awakened posibrain and then the radiation event hits, so I duck into maint.

The real Terry Mcfall is there and I am talking to the posibrain. Terry is a cultist so I just ignore him. Don't complete borg yet because I want to hack it in peace.

Suddenly Terry pulls out an armblade and kills me. I complain in deadchat as I am wont to do. I don't ahelp because it's only been a minute since my last one.

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DEAD: Parsee Mizuhashi (died as Terry Mcfall) asks, "ADMINS YOU TOLD ME NOT TO KILL OTHER CULTISTS BUT THE LING CAN????????"
DEAD: ADMIN(Isratosh) says, "lings are a different story"

Admin basically tells it's allowed despite being a cultist the same as I am, contradicting the statement I was told.

Terry goes on to basically murderbone with no repercussions, still a cultist and killing other cultists.

I sit dead for the whole rest of the round with no recourse, and Isratosh basically afk'd. Techno eventually came on (Isratosh was only admin before) and basically just told me 'shit happens', which I can at least accept, but I find it a little unfair Terry got favoritism and I didn't get any compensation despite the unfair ruling.

[DrWoofington]

Happened to me too, the ling killed me, while he was Marc Kaur. Thats fucking bullshit, when you become a team antag, you should ACT like a team antag.

[smittn]

genome eating monster from space =/= regular joe turncoat

IMO though I'd just rule traitor proceeds over cult but w/e

Also I was OG Terry and I transform stung you and like 4 other people. Then one human'd a borg and got hit with some pretty rough hindsight about everyone being Terry.

[DrWoofington]

You became a team antag.
Act like one.

[Yakumo_Chen]

The borg literally had laws allowing you to hack him because he was part of the same team antag thing you were, otherwise it would have been an asimov borg and would have resisted subverting because it watched you kill a human and be a ling.

[Saegrimr]

Yeah this is a really awkward grey area that almost never comes up.

I'm not really sure what you hope to accomplish with a complaint about this.

[DrWoofington]

Make it so a policy is added regarding getting team antagged as a lone antag, maybe?
For example, a lone antag become a team antag when team antagged, so he CAN'T kill the cultists, so there are no smartasses saying 'genome eating monster from space =/= regular joe turncoat'
Also, that ling heavily ruined my cult round which made it IMPOSSIBLE for us to win, literally. Not enough people to even get to SCRIPTS.

[smittn]

You became a team antag.
Act like one.

That's just like, your opinion man. Obviously we don't see eye to eye on lings.

The borg literally had laws allowing you to hack him because he was part of the same team antag thing you were, otherwise it would have been an asimov borg and would have resisted subverting because it watched you kill a human and be a ling.

You don't even know what actually happened. I just locked it on the cyborg debug and changed its laws manually. Ratvar's law is 0 anyway so you can't really dodge that easily. I did not 'exploit' its cult status to change its laws.

[DrWoofington]

You were CULTED.
You became a TEAM ANTAG.
The cog above your head means you are a TEAM ANTAGONIST.
You should NOT straight up go and murderbone the entire cult, even if you are some ' genome eating monster from space '.
You ruined a cult round, you did not even let us progress to SCRIPTS.
We had ZERO MEANS OF DEFENSE AGAINIST YOU.
You just wanted to ruin our round, or murderbone, nothing else.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Yeah this is a really awkward grey area that almost never comes up.

I'm not really sure what you hope to accomplish with a complaint about this.

I'm complaining because apparently lings get special treatment by an admin while I was also a round antagonist that had gotten culted and told the opposite of what the ling was allowed to do. I got no help from the admin and the admin failed to explain himself with a proper answer. Terry was allowed to murderbone whereas I had no intention to and wasn't even allowed to because of the admin ruling I received.

Had I been aware Terry had even been a ling I would have been unable to fight back against him due to his cult status in the first place unless I had been given time to actually ask an admin for a different ruling.

I basically got fucked out of having a proper antag round due to admin shenanigans and rulings while the other lone antag is allowed to with no real justification and just spends the round murderboning and ruining a team antag round. I'd like for something to be done with the admin that caused this problem as well.

[smittn]

>cult round
it was traitor/ling, actually.
>zero defense
You cultists looted the armory and half of you had all access
>ruin our round
I mean, I'm a ling, and cult ruined plenty of other peoples rounds sooo

I feel this is more about me than an actual admin complaint. What did Isratosh even do wrong? not respond to one of your ahelps?

[DrWoofington]

Yeah this is a really awkward grey area that almost never comes up.

I'm not really sure what you hope to accomplish with a complaint about this.

I'm complaining because apparently lings get special treatment by an admin while I was also a round antagonist that had gotten culted and told the opposite of what the ling was allowed to do. I got no help from the admin and the admin failed to explain himself with a proper answer. Terry was allowed to murderbone whereas I had no intention to and wasn't even allowed to because of the admin ruling I received.

Had I been aware Terry had even been a ling I would have been unable to fight back against him due to his cult status in the first place unless I had been given time to actually ask an admin for a different ruling.

I basically got fucked out of having a proper antag round due to admin shenanigans and rulings while the other lone antag is allowed to with no real justification and just spends the round murderboning and ruining a team antag round.

Also, Isratosh made me clock cult in exchange of traitor, so you could thank me for ruining your proper antag round!
Also, Terry ruined my proper cult round.
There may have not even been enough people to summon RatVar in the start, he made it worse by killing off everyone.

[DrWoofington]

>cult round
it was traitor/ling, actually.
>zero defense
You cultists looted the armory and half of you had all access
>ruin our round
I mean, I'm a ling, and cult ruined plenty of other peoples rounds sooo

I feel this is more about me than an actual admin complaint. What did Isratosh even do wrong? not respond to one of your ahelps?

It is said in the topic what he did wrong, antag favoritism.

[Yakumo_Chen]

What did Isratosh even do wrong? not respond to one of your ahelps?

basically told me you were allowed to murderbone and ruin a cult round where as I couldn't, then afk'd afterwards and refused to help me.


While I am pretty salty you ruined my round, it's more that that Isratosh basically condoned it while disallowing anyone else to.

[TechnoAlchemist]

It's worth noting that the cult was a result of a TC trade with (I assume) one of the people complaining here, having cult forced upon lings/traitors should allow for them to continue being lings traitors.

In some ways I understand a ling continuing to be a ling, and a traitor avoiding killing other cultists but still pursuing their objective.

If we've learned anything it's that TC trades like these are a clusterfuck and should either be hands off in terms of policy until datum antags comes up, or shouldn't be done at all.

[Isratosh]

I swapped an antag out on request on a round where there was only 2 other antags, said a couple things later, then afk'd and eventually left. My rationale for the "lings are a different story" quote was as another forum user mentioned above, they are body-hijacking aliens from space. I originally administrated a baystation server, and so my opinion on those lore matters are from there. I don't believe there are any policies in place that dictate antags like that, so I went with my best judgement.

basically told me you were allowed to murderbone and ruin a cult round where as I couldn't, then afk'd afterwards and refused to help me.
While I am pretty salty you ruined my round, it's more that that Isratosh basically condoned it while disallowing anyone else to.

You guys were different antags. You were a traitor, he was a changeling. As for the last part, you and the original cultist were the only people I even spoke to that round. The "don't kill cultists" was something I said so as to avoid chaos and things like this. I wasn't making any huge judgements.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Lore-wise, you could say that a ling could get away with it. Mechanically, we're both lone antags, with similar goals. The only difference is a the selection of abilities we have. If we're both on the same team antag role as well, we should be subject to the same policies.

You can't tell me I can't kill team mates to 'avoid chaos' when you blatantly let the ling do it.

I ahelped it because it was absolutely an issue I thought I would get in trouble for, whereas the ling just ignored any policy regarding team antags and went ahead and did whatever the fuck he wanted.

Team antagonist policy is pretty much directly stated in the main rules, and should be followed regardless of whatever bullshit 'lel lore' excuse you think you can come up with.

also

I don't believe there are any policies in place that dictate antags like that, so I went with my best judgement.

>Admin that doesn't know the main rules of the server

[Tornadium]

Either make team antagonists take 100% priority over everything else or remove the ability to convert lone antags.

Situations like this are cancerous.

[Saegrimr]

>Admin that doesn't know the main rules of the server

>Thing that literally never fucking happens normally

Contain your asspain for a moment, oh no your traitor round got fucked by a ling due to an arguably bad call.
Consider directing your attention to maybe making a policy thread on how multiple antag types are handled since we currently DO NOT HAVE THIS but might in the future.

[Zilenan91]

Normally antags here can do whatever they want, so saying that one antag isn't allowed to kill their own team because of admin stuff and then turn around and say that another one can is inconsistent and stupid

[TheNightingale]

If they're both antags simultaneously, they should have to follow the rules of both simultaneously:
* You can't backstab your team
* ... unless your solo antag objectives tell you to (e.g. "absorb the headrev")

[Wyzack]

Making an administrative call like that based on lore that virtually no one ever agrees on is kinda iffy, but isratosh did apologize so i am not sure what else you think is gonna happen

[Not-Dorsidarf]

99% of admincomplaints are basically just thinly-veiled attempts to get people to agree the admin was being a dick anyway.

[Jacough]

Making an administrative call like that based on lore that virtually no one ever agrees on is kinda iffy, but isratosh did apologize so i am not sure what else you think is gonna happen

Eh, just take it as a sign that maybe we should make a simple policy around this kind of situation? Throw up an ingame or forum poll over whether or not converted lone antags should be allowed to kill their teammates and toss a policy on the rules page based on the results.

[Alex Crimson]

The team antag should override the ling stuff, really. He couldve done both objectives without harming his team members, no? Unless he has an objective to kill a friendly cultist.

Seems like the problem is with the player, not the admin.

[Aloraydrel]

What makes a ling override cult status? If you are going for fluff cultists/ratvar servants are brainwashed and obey narsie/ratvar. while lings are just aliens who suck out dna and disguise themselves.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Thats a good point - even Xenos can be converted to the cult, which is hilarious

[Saegrimr]

I'm gonna start a policy thread on this, since this is long since derailed.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7134
There we go, please use this. If there's any actual remaining discussion to be had about a complaint against Isratosh then have at it.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Isratosh has been fired forever, this thread has run its course if you have any input questions or comments take it to the policy thread.

jk i don't have any mod abilities in this board