[TheBibleMelts] Watchulookinat gorilla note appeal

[Casings]

BYOND account:[Casings]

Ban/note type (Check what applies):
() - Server Ban
(X) - Note
() - Forum Ban
() - Discord Ban

Ban/note length:
Ban/note reason:[On MRP, during a round they rolled spy, immediately began trying to make themselves a gorilla as soon as possible, OOC'ing in IC asking a scientist about the "slime potion that makes simplemobs bigger", and then once becoming a Gorilla, broke their way into botany to steal trays and grow bananas in the main hallway that they used to heal/slip people as needed before delimbing them once provoked. This would have been funnier or more interesting with better RP, but as it was, it just looked like you powergaming and then looking for any excuse you could to punch people limbless.]
Time ban was placed:[2024-09-12 03:05:39]
Server you were playing on when banned:
Round ID in which ban was placed:[ Round 237622 ]

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):
(X) - The ban/note is factually incorrect
() - The ban/note is not against the rules
(X) - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh
() - I was permabanned and I want another chance

Why should this appeal be accepted?:[I was not a midround spy, but a roundstart traitor geneticist, I'm not sure why bible listed me as a spy in the notes. I rolled geneticist traitor, began to comb through my uplink to see what was on discount, didn't see much of interest so I decided to become a gorilla geneticist and not go for the secondary objectives. I had become a gorilla once before this week as a geneticist, and I met a pretty timely death, and a few times before as a gorilla on Terry/Sybil before has led me to similar instances in which I either die to a skilled seccy with a single laser gun, or crew decides gorillas are bad and I get lynch mobbed.
I haven't done xenobio before personally, but I've been around it enough to have seen the wumborian fugu, I just forgot the name at the time, and I didn't know if it would increase my health/strength or just make my icon size larger, so shiftstart I went from genetics to xenobio and asked a scientist who was in xenobiology, I did use the term simplemob which Bible quoted and I 100% agree this was an OOC term and I should not have used it, but at this point I didn't see how combining gorilla + fugu would be a powergaming setup, I just considered the fact that simplemobs don't usually get revived, have harder conventional means of healing, and I wouldn't be able to communicate after my transformation. After asking about the wumborian fugu, I figured it would take too long to get the slimes needed for it, so I thought it would be okay to just grow a few bananas incase my health took a plummet. I injected myself with magilitis, became a gorilla, bought a slipocalypse clusterbang and a syndie soap with my remaining 5 credits, went to the brig and detonated the soap bomb, spent a few minutes slipping people (and then spinning around and pointing at them, not attacking them, just slipping them) went to botany, broke the table and windoor, and started growing bananas. I accidentally broke the wall with Botany's APC trying to get the tools in the back to grow said bananas, so I had to wrench the 3 banana trays I had planted, and dragged them into the hallway. After tending to my banana plants, I just sat near the trees/wandered the halls for the majority of my round. At this point most of the crew had seen me including security, and nobody was declaring me a lethal threat. I walked near engineering and an engineer named Sam Gibson started attacking me without a single word said, and running wildly, I fought him back and he began yelling "gorilla bad." I spaced him afterwards because I didn't want him reviving and having the entire crew attack me for no reason when he had done so without so much as a word. I resumed wandering the halls with a banana peel/soap in tow, slipping various crew and going on about my business, and then a random "Big Game Hunter" with a plasma rifle and a combat knife arrived, which I'm assuming was an adminspawn. I attacked the big game hunter, assuming obviously what was going to happen to me considering I was big game, and was assisted by a moth who critted them/I delimbed the hunter and tossed him out the airlock as well. I went back to my trees oncemore, not thinking crew was lethally intent on me, and then ran into two people using wheelchairs/legs disabled, one male and one female, I forget their names. I unbuckled the female from her wheelchair and buckled myself in and started slowly wheeling away, figuring that a gigantic gorilla in a wheelchair would be a funny joke, but after stealing the females wheelchair and slowly wheeling away, both of the disabled people began shooting me , Lady with a laser gun and the other man with a M19111. I started punching them after being shot a few times, manage to take down Lady and delimb her, get into a longer fight with her friend and manage to do the same with him. Being as I'm a gorilla attacking crew, other crew began to attack me/I attempted to fight them back as well and ended up killing I think 2-3 more people ontop of Lady and the other disabled man. I'm promptly dispatched by crew, medical then revives every person I dismembered except the original two, Sam Gibson and the Big Game Hunter.


I wasn't trying to use it in bad faith, I was just trying to have a good geneticist traitor round, and from my point of view, I wasn't doing any long-standing damage except for Sam Gibson who I assumed was trying to round remove me, and the Big Game Hunter, who I could only assume was sent to do the same. I didn't think being a strong gorilla with a few bananas would be a major power gaming strat and that I'd decimate most of the station. My intention was to be friendly for most of the round, and in the end if I COULD get away with, assassinate Widum Boise my main objective target, and escape on the shuttle as a gorilla. I didn't have the plan of going full postal, but things ended up badly. I realize I am fairly new to playing on Manuel, and have spent a majority of my time on Sybil and Terry, but I don't intend to come over in bad faith, I do apologize if the killing got out of hand, but it was never my original intention to just game on people as a gorilla.]

[TheBibleMelts]

hey there thanks for appealing this i had a hard time trying to place where this whole incident felt off and feel like i might have gotten lost in the sauce myself on how i both approached and noted for this first of all i apologize for the inaccurate mentioning of which antagonist you had been assigned on this i believe i just skimmed over your objectives during the investigation and saw what i believed to have been the sillier spy objectives and didn't really have much other cause to check again due to the lack of distinction between traitors and spies so far as our roleplay ruleset is concerned so i will amend that in the note and aside from that bit i feel that i may have gotten off track with the note itself on what exactly it was that i felt was being infringed upon and i think at the core of it i feel like this was just overall below the lack of effort for antagonizing that we hope to see on our mrp servers based on the previous ooc in ic segment and otherwise lack of any efforts made to be entertaining for the crew versus the aforementioned perception that your actions were only in pursuit of only wanting to gain the most mechanical advantages possible via asking about the fugu gland in addition to the growing of the bananas to heal yourself and then utilizing those advantages to delimb and kill anybody who had in my eyes taken the bait to be killed by you by the lowest bar imaginable including people who had not directly harmed or threatened you that i was able to ascertain so i think in conclusion to this note i'd just edit it to only reflect the ooc in ic and that you have been otherwise asked to put more effort into setting up a little more for gimmicks that will yield a lot of death and destruction in terms of making sure that it is entertaining or at least engaging with the other players on the server outside of simply looking like someone trying to gorilla themselves and game as many kills as they can please let me know if these terms are acceptable to you and i will remove references to powergaming from the note and add that you are still attempting to acclimate to the different environment you have found yourself playing in without any explicit ill intention.

[Timberpoes]

Snip nonsense post.

Just because the player cocked up forum formatting by deleting at least one [/b] tag by accident while filling in the template doesn't mean an admin needs to respond in kind. It would have been less effort to edit the OP and correct the accidentally deleted [/b] tags than to make fun of the player for appealing a note with tangible issues. The player also used punctuation. They just suck at formatting long blocks of text. Such is life.

This is not a low effort appeal and it is not a meritless appeal. So your response doesn't impress me. It is fully within your power to ask the player to reformat or trim down their original post to make it a bit easier to read and digest, which is an idea I hope you entertain if you find yourself in a similar position in the future.

From the rules page:

When wanting to cause death and destruction not related to objectives, restricted antagonists may instead rely on extremely relaxed escalation.

They may escalate lethally sooner and with less justification, may use more lethal methods to escalate and may rely on antagonistic reasons for escalating. Such reasons may include escalating against people who are excessively polite or helpful as well as being mean or rude, escalating against groups of people who exclude them or escalating against people who ignore or avoid attempts to communicate entirely.

They have no obligation to treat their victims but escalating over minor issues should not result in the antagonist taking steps to permanently round-remove the other player unless escalation policy would otherwise permit it.

So with the above as my context, when you mention they tried to game as many kills as they could, can you provide a little more insight into how the player's actions breached the relaxed antagonistic escalation?

Or if that wasn't the point you tried to make with your nonsense reply, instead please give some insight into which rules you feel the player caused issues with via their antagonism such that a note is necessary.

On the face of it, geneticist goes big monke and baits fights with bananas sounds like it fits just right on MRP to me. And I wrote the rules on it. So there must be something more about the unique context of this incident that makes it unacceptable enough that we should discourage it on the RP servers?

[Casings]

hey there thanks for appealing this i had a hard time trying to place where this whole incident felt off and feel like i might have gotten lost in the sauce myself on how i both approached and noted for this first of all i apologize for the inaccurate mentioning of which antagonist you had been assigned on this i believe i just skimmed over your objectives during the investigation and saw what i believed to have been the sillier spy objectives and didn't really have much other cause to check again due to the lack of distinction between traitors and spies so far as our roleplay ruleset is concerned so i will amend that in the note and aside from that bit i feel that i may have gotten off track with the note itself on what exactly it was that i felt was being infringed upon and i think at the core of it i feel like this was just overall below the lack of effort for antagonizing that we hope to see on our mrp servers based on the previous ooc in ic segment and otherwise lack of any efforts made to be entertaining for the crew versus the aforementioned perception that your actions were only in pursuit of only wanting to gain the most mechanical advantages possible via asking about the fugu gland in addition to the growing of the bananas to heal yourself and then utilizing those advantages to delimb and kill anybody who had in my eyes taken the bait to be killed by you by the lowest bar imaginable including people who had not directly harmed or threatened you that i was able to ascertain so i think in conclusion to this note i'd just edit it to only reflect the ooc in ic and that you have been otherwise asked to put more effort into setting up a little more for gimmicks that will yield a lot of death and destruction in terms of making sure that it is entertaining or at least engaging with the other players on the server outside of simply looking like someone trying to gorilla themselves and game as many kills as they can please let me know if these terms are acceptable to you and i will remove references to powergaming from the note and add that you are still attempting to acclimate to the different environment you have found yourself playing in without any explicit ill intention.

Well, the whole reason I made the appeal was because I feel like the note was made to make me out to be a bad player, seeking bad engagement or fragging. Even in your reply you say that I was a. Only in pursuit of mechanical advantages. and b.Utilizing these said "advantages" in attempting to "bait" players into lethaling/delimbing with people who had not "directly harmed me or threatened me in any way"


In no way did I think that becoming an easily killable simplemob, that was openly accessible roundstart without any reputation or increased tc to my traitor job role, having some version of healing setup, and maybe even increasing my strength/health capacity, would be powergaming. I was imagining this would be akin to clown spawning clown car, and finding some way to have a better run i.e emagging it through other traitors, or finding an easily accessible way to the SM.

Even during the round and ticket with you, I asked who I had attacked that "did not directly harm or threaten me in any way" but you never informed me, and even in your reply here you say I did but you don't say who I attacked that didn't initially lethal me first, because the only conflicts I remember having whatsoever in this round are the ones I mentioned in the post above
>Sam Gibson attacking me wordlessly
>Big Game Hunter adminspawn sent to kill me (I did attack this one without them engaging me first, believing it to be an adminspawn sent to kill me and am still left wondering whether he was and why an adminspawn would be sent to kill me after I've killed only 1 crewmember)
>The final encounter before my death in which I steal a wheelchair without lethaling both crippled wheelchair user and gimmickly wheelchairing away slowly from them and am then shot in the back with lasers and pistol ammunition, I fight them back, and a few crew join in the fight to help them/attack me.

The only instance in which I killed someone who did not directly harm me or threaten me would be the Big Game Hunter, but I do still believe he was kitted and sent to kill me by admins, nobody let me know afterwards. I did just jump the gun on attacking him after seeing he had a rifle and was named "Big Game Hunter"

If the argument is that I was "baiting" the two legless people into attacking me by stealing their wheelchair, I'd disagree in saying they could have full well avoided shooting an otherwise peaceful gorilla, and the crew who attacked me afterwards because they saw me attacking the crippled people who were shooting me, were chasing me down in circles until I died, I didn't approach any single random person and begin attacking them, or give chase to them.

I shouldn't have used the term simplemob, but I felt like my gorilla gameplay was justified. I really just don't want to buildup an even further history of notes and this seems like a bad one.

[TheBibleMelts]

apologies for the goof formatting in my first reply - going through the attack logs, i think what i saw as you attacking people unprovoked turned out to be me having watched you run into the medbay and attack what looked like several people at random who had turned out to have engaged with you prior - and only one of them, which i believe was a cyborg, was attacked by you without first attacking you during that medbay scuffle.

i think what happened in my head with this was seeing your say logs, noting the OOC way you went about trying to ask about making your gimmick stronger, and then linking it with the actions you took to grow a bunch of bananas to ensure you'd be able to heal yourself through any fights that you got into around them. watching the engagements as an observer, it didn't look much like the type of interactions people look to have on MRP - by all appearances you were just sort of camping out in a main hallway and waiting to left-click people limbless without any real IC reasoning or leadup for this whole setup existing.

for reference, these are the say logs that poisoned the well for me and colored my perception of your intentions in a poor way, combined with your general setup with the bananas/dragging around soap and banana peels to provoke people -

Code: Select all

Line   512: [2024-09-12 02:12:48.067] GAME: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) has gained antag datum �Traitor(/datum/antagonist/traitor).
	Line   535: [2024-09-12 02:12:54.772] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "coffle worperation" (Genetics Lab (168,127,2))
	Line   707: [2024-09-12 02:14:06.511] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) points at the floor (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   722: [2024-09-12 02:14:08.760] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "does the" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   729: [2024-09-12 02:14:10.962] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "slime potion" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   743: [2024-09-12 02:14:14.205] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "that makes simple mobs bigger" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   752: [2024-09-12 02:14:17.026] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "make them stronger?" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   791: [2024-09-12 02:14:28.825] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "do you know" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   805: [2024-09-12 02:14:36.176] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "wot" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   827: [2024-09-12 02:14:40.717] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "I thought there was a slime to make mobs bigger" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   893: [2024-09-12 02:15:01.963] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "yeah" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   923: [2024-09-12 02:15:12.674] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Oh yeah the wumborian fugu" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   933: [2024-09-12 02:15:17.581] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Does that make them stronger?" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   953: [2024-09-12 02:15:27.171] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Or just bigger in size" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1006: [2024-09-12 02:15:40.948] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "hmmm" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1021: [2024-09-12 02:15:46.596] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "hmm!!!!!!" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1035: [2024-09-12 02:15:50.472] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "okay thanks" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))

currently, the note reads

[On MRP, during a round they rolled spy, immediately began trying to make themselves a gorilla as soon as possible, OOC'ing in IC asking a scientist about the "slime potion that makes simplemobs bigger", and then once becoming a Gorilla, broke their way into botany to steal trays and grow bananas in the main hallway that they used to heal/slip people as needed before delimbing them once provoked. This would have been funnier or more interesting with better RP, but as it was, it just looked like you powergaming and then looking for any excuse you could to punch people limbless.

i'd be cool just boiling it down to just the bit on OOC in IC, as well as just requesting that you lean more into setups that don't just look like killbait in the middle of a hallway - at least on MRP where folks are there to ideally engage a little bit more into the story side of things.

[Casings]

apologies for the goof formatting in my first reply - going through the attack logs, i think what i saw as you attacking people unprovoked turned out to be me having watched you run into the medbay and attack what looked like several people at random who had turned out to have engaged with you prior - and only one of them, which i believe was a cyborg, was attacked by you without first attacking you during that medbay scuffle.

i think what happened in my head with this was seeing your say logs, noting the OOC way you went about trying to ask about making your gimmick stronger, and then linking it with the actions you took to grow a bunch of bananas to ensure you'd be able to heal yourself through any fights that you got into around them. watching the engagements as an observer, it didn't look much like the type of interactions people look to have on MRP - by all appearances you were just sort of camping out in a main hallway and waiting to left-click people limbless without any real IC reasoning or leadup for this whole setup existing.

for reference, these are the say logs that poisoned the well for me and colored my perception of your intentions in a poor way, combined with your general setup with the bananas/dragging around soap and banana peels to provoke people -

Code: Select all

Line   512: [2024-09-12 02:12:48.067] GAME: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) has gained antag datum �Traitor(/datum/antagonist/traitor).
	Line   535: [2024-09-12 02:12:54.772] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "coffle worperation" (Genetics Lab (168,127,2))
	Line   707: [2024-09-12 02:14:06.511] GAME-EMOTE: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) points at the floor (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   722: [2024-09-12 02:14:08.760] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "does the" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   729: [2024-09-12 02:14:10.962] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "slime potion" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   743: [2024-09-12 02:14:14.205] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "that makes simple mobs bigger" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   752: [2024-09-12 02:14:17.026] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "make them stronger?" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   791: [2024-09-12 02:14:28.825] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "do you know" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   805: [2024-09-12 02:14:36.176] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "wot" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   827: [2024-09-12 02:14:40.717] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "I thought there was a slime to make mobs bigger" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   893: [2024-09-12 02:15:01.963] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "yeah" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   923: [2024-09-12 02:15:12.674] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Oh yeah the wumborian fugu" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   933: [2024-09-12 02:15:17.581] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Does that make them stronger?" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line   953: [2024-09-12 02:15:27.171] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "Or just bigger in size" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1006: [2024-09-12 02:15:40.948] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "hmmm" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1021: [2024-09-12 02:15:46.596] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "hmm!!!!!!" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))
	Line  1035: [2024-09-12 02:15:50.472] GAME-SAY: Watchulookinat/(Tardigrade Johngston) (mob_3326) "okay thanks" (Xenobiology Lab (162,104,2))

currently, the note reads

[On MRP, during a round they rolled spy, immediately began trying to make themselves a gorilla as soon as possible, OOC'ing in IC asking a scientist about the "slime potion that makes simplemobs bigger", and then once becoming a Gorilla, broke their way into botany to steal trays and grow bananas in the main hallway that they used to heal/slip people as needed before delimbing them once provoked. This would have been funnier or more interesting with better RP, but as it was, it just looked like you powergaming and then looking for any excuse you could to punch people limbless.

i'd be cool just boiling it down to just the bit on OOC in IC, as well as just requesting that you lean more into setups that don't just look like killbait in the middle of a hallway - at least on MRP where folks are there to ideally engage a little bit more into the story side of things.

I would be totally happy with this resolve if it is okay with you and everyone else.

[TheBibleMelts]

after mulling this over for a few days, i'm just going to remove the note altogether - while i don't want game mechanics to work their way into the regular vernacular in ways that can break immersion for other players, i think if all that's all that is left to note here along with the request to not overdo antagonist gimmicks like this, there's not really much that wouldn't have just warrant a verbal request anyway. i'm sorry for over-reading into your intent.

[Dalmationer]

FWIW I was one of the paraplegic players that shot you with a laser after stealing the wheelchair- I don't hold anything against you for that fight, I just have a policy of responding as if attacked when people do that, because it can potentially make you extremely vulnerable. I didn't ahelp it, so i'm fine with it having been handled IC, especially as you were a traitor at the time.