[Armhulen] KeyboardCreature - deathsyringe of warden

[KeyboardCreature]

Byond account and character name: KeyboardCreature (Kat Neoki)
Banning admin: Armhulen
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Banned from game
Ban reason and length: Shot the warden with a deathsyringe as an accident, apparently not knowing it was a deathsyringe, when they were aiming to kill the hos with that same syringe. Either you did know and you're lying, or you're trying to kill the hos with a random syringe you found on the ground. Either way, accidental murder of the warden. The ban is for a day.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2017-06-24 00:07:42 (Server Time)
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Probably Sybil


Your side of the story: I wasn't an antagonist, but I had a legitimate reason to try to kill Jovan, a security officer. One of my routines is that I always keep a self-defense weapon because I never like to go down without a fight. This time, I used a syringe filled with chemicals. It's my signature mixture of Diethylamine, Iodine, Phosphorous, and Hydrogen, frozen to below room temperature. In the chance that the weapon is misfired or is used against an innocent, it will not kill, the worst that it can do is send to orange health and set the person on fire, good enough to incapacitate, but unfit for murder. I believe that the round was extended. No murders had been taking place. No breaches in space. The station lasted for so long that we had a friendly ninja on board. Everything was peaceful. Despite this, Javon was abusing his power and blatantly ruining the round for everyone by permabrigging people for minor offenses. After a series of events, I'm arrested by Jovan for tresspassing into Brig (I simply walked in), my weapons are taken away, and I'm shot by my own syringe gun before I could explain anything. Jovan leaves me to burn. Despite the protest of the crew, Javon goes against orders and smashes all of the chem dispensers on the station to prevent any chance of dangerous chemicals. Medbay protests because they ran out of medications. The crew protests because the cyros are only filled with the base chem. People really hate this guy and are actively trying to murder him. Some guys make a borging machine in arrivals and we have a borg party. Javon takes care of it by blowing all borgs up. Probably nearly half of the crew is dead because of that stunt. I'm permabrigged for attempted murder of Jovan (which is true), but I escape and grab a random syringe in permabrig hallways. I try to shoot Javon but accidentally hit the warden. Warden explodes, Javon doesn't save him either, I get bwoinked for murder of warden.


Why you think you should be unbanned:

I believe that my accidental killing of the warden was justified because it was unpreventable. Javon put me in a corner in the permabrig halls, I needed to act fast. It was impossible for me to attempt any other course of action. Without any weapons, I grabbed the closest thing, a random syringe gun on the floor (I didn't know this was my specific syringe gun). Armhulen believes that I could have checked the contents of the syringe before I fired it. I had no time to check the contents of this syringe to see if it was actually my syringe. Javon was aiming his taser right at me and I needed to act in the moment. Therefore, this syringe was the only option available to me and my using of it was completely out of my control. Whether the syringe was chloral, clf3, or beepsky's smash didn't matter. It was the only option. The warden walked into the line of fire and was shot down. My part of the warden's death was unpreventable because I couldn't have done anything to stop the warden from walking in front of the syringe as it flew across the screen. However, his death was preventable on Javon's end. He had time to save the warden but chose to permabrig me instead and leaves the warden to die. My syringe is perfectly safe otherwise.

Therefore.

Even if I knew the contents of the syringe, which I did not, I still would have fired it because I had no other choice. Trust me, if I had a better weapon, I would have used it.
Even if I had perfect aim, which I did not, the warden would still have been hit by the syringe because he walked in front of Javon. His getting hit was unpreventable by me.
Even if the warden was not hit, my attempted murder of Javon is fully justified because Javon has been abusing his security privileges. If someone was acting like an antagonist, they should be treated like one.
Even if I had tried to purposefully kill the warden, the syringe is not deadly with adequate medical care. He was surrounded by many officers as he burned to death. A simple fire extinguisher would have saved his life. An epipenwould have let him walk again.

The attempt at Jovan's life was justified. The accidental death of the warden was unpreventable by me. The weapon that I used is harmless. This is the only time in the game that I felt that I was not at fault for an admin remark or a ban. Can I get unbanned, pls?

[Armhulen]

I think it was okay at that point to kill the hos, and it's not a two day ban because of that. But the warden was not okay, if you're running around with deathchems you best hope you don't miss. It's unjustified murder, and that's a day.

[KeyboardCreature]

Well, I agree that it would not be ok if I was running around with deathchems shooting at people. However, murder, by definition, is to "kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation". I argue that the circumstance puts in the crime of manslaughter, that is, the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.

I should explain again. I did not have the chemicals on me when Jovan was arresting me in the Brig. I simply found the syringe gun on the floor at the time of the crime. I believe that the circumstances that led to the warden's death led to his killing. As in, the death of the warden was a tragedy, but it was unavoidable by my end and preventable on the other end.

In fact, let us do this by law. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Space_Law If we follow the rules of space law, my crime is a major "manslaughter" sentence. "To unintentionally kill someone through negligent, but not malicious, actions." A major crime "carries a service at the Labor Camp, with a 500 point target or a five minute brig sentence." The crime of manslaughter carries a relatively tiny amount of consequence compared to the crime of murder.

In addition, the chemicals in my 10u syringe have proven to be almost completely safe in standard circumstances. A normal syringe holds 15u, I only put 10u of the incapacitating chemical to eliminate the chance of death. The only way to die on 10u of this chemical is purely though burning, which can be easily stopped with a fire extinguisher.

I understand your position. I wouldn't want people running around, shooting deathchems at officers, and claiming that it was by accident either. However, the syringe was not meant to kill (therefore it is not a deathchem), the weapon was not chosen voluntarily (therefore the intent was not malicious, even if it was a deadly weapon), and the death of the warden was accidental. The syringe gun was basically taped on my arms at that point. The choice wasn't to fire, or not to fire. The choice wassn't switch or not swich. It was the only ranged weapon, the only singular choice for me to take that would bring about the least possible damage for the greatest benefit to the crew.

Think of it like this.
Kat Neoki is a security officer during a xenomorph infestation. She spots a queen and gives chase. Kat fires her laser. The xenomorph leaps behind a crewmember and escapes alive, unfortunately, the unlucky assistant is hit by the beam. It incapacitates him. For one reason or another, there's also a breach nearby and the assistant is slowly sucked out. In a twist of fate, Kat is arrested for murder as the assistant is screaming for help. Nobody steps up to help and the assistant is slowly spaced in front of the watching crew. At this moment, would you ban her? In trying to accomplish her task, she accidentally spaced a passerby through a series of unlikely coincidences. What are the chances that the assistant would run in front of a xenomorph? What is the chance that a breach was nearby, ready to gradually suck the assistant out? What are the chances that he dies in front of the crew, loudly yelling for help? Would you arrest her? In this situation, there is simply no fault to be assigned. It was not the fault of the assistant that he accidentally ran into a beam. It is not the fault of the station that there was a random breach nearby to suck him in. It is not the fault of the xeno that the assistant ran in front of the laser. And also, I don't believe that it is the fault of the officer that an unforeseeable obstacle would get her banned.

This incident mirrors the hypothetical scenario. This situation is also a one-in-a-million. The potential gain for the crew was massive, the death of Jovan would be accompanied with parties in the bar. The warden getting in the way was unforeseeable and unpreventable. The death was preventable by other crewmates. In a game of faults, there is not a fault to be had.

Or think of it like this.
If you were the same officer, chasing after that queen, knowing that a single laser beam might incapacitate. You get a clear shot. You set the mouse over the queen's terrifying sprite. You could just feel that the next click could be the one to incapacitate, allowing the crew to finish her. The crew counts on you. With a single click, you can end all of this. In a split second, you ready your weapon, you hover over the left mouse button. In a split second, you realize that you might finnally end this.

Then.

You don't fire.

[Cobby]

That mix wouldn't make someone explode though. I'm not even sure it would kill. The syringe in perma must not have been the one you made.

Is there something missing from this story? I can't really see someone getting banned for an actual misfire when they were trying to aim at someone who was being an alleged pain.

[KeyboardCreature]

It would set someone on fire, and I'm pretty sure the syringe was the one I made. Diethylamine, Iodine, Phosphorous, and Hydrogen combines to make a small meth explosion. With 10u there were 2.5u of Diethylamine, Iodine, Phosphorous, and Hydrogen in my syringe. I dunno, from my perspective, I'm completely in the clear. I don't think anyone deserves to be banned for an honest mistake such as this one. It's purely by coincidence.

Armhulen, maybe you saw something different? Maybe you misunderstood something? From my point of view, this was perfectly fine. Maybe you could relay your account so I can see what's on your end. From the looks of it, you're thinking that I was running around with the syringes? Jovan stripped me of my backpack when he put me in Brig so I had to use what was in Perma halls. I was the girl hiding in the lockers. Honestly, I can probably survive the day off, but I'll never go down without a fight. I've no intention of letting this on my record, especially for something that I don't believe that I deserve.

[Nilons]

The syringe he picked up in perma I assume was chloral with exploding being a colourful phrase and actually anon3 amendment or whatever here, first degree murder is defined as premediated with intent, second degree is heat of moment, manslaughter is accidental. None of these matter on tg because kills aren't divided into sections that way but you still took a player out of the round to kill a different player who was valid. If someone killed you the same way and got away with it because they meant to kill the guy next to you it's still pretty upsetting I'm sure. What I think armhulen was getting at it that if you're going to take someone out of the round as a non sec non antag because they're valid and a dickhead don't fucking miss, because it's not fair to the player who's round is now over because you HAD to kill the HoS

Clearing up the definition of murder thing this is not a shitpost and opinions came after

[Armhulen]

I like what nilons said, lets go with that.

Also, I have no clue why you're talking about spacelaw considering it's an IC suggestion and it holds no value out of that.

[KeyboardCreature]

I don't think there's fault in a misfire. If someone shot me with my own syringe by accident, I would be perfectly content with it. After all, it rarely kills. Chances are, I would be extinguished and be injected with a medipen, dragged to medbay and be healed in thirty-seconds. In the chance of it killing me, I still would be pretty ok with it, to be honest. It's a common mistake, with an engine as laggy as Byond, you can't expect even God to be 100% accurate. I mean, if someone teamkilled you by accident in CS:GO, you wouldn't be too upset, would you? I would really only be angry on multiple attempts. Nevermind, scratch that, CS:GO is too difficult to teamkill on, you actually have to fire multiple rounds, in SS13 a single misclick can be pretty deadly, so it makes it even easier to accidentally teamkill. Suppose my syringe gun was filled with a secret traitor chem that instantly gibs. In that case, there is such an easy chance of ruining someone's round that I wouldn't even use it at all. I've taken every reasonable precaution. The game is just set up to alow for funny and unexpected kills. I don't think you can seriously admin all the instances of accidental killings. If so, you might as well ban the engineers if they accidentally set up the SM wrong and murdered everyone. Going by kills, that would be at least a ten day ban.

But this is all fluff now. It really doesn't matter what the syringe contained. The simple defense is that the kill was not my own. I was put into a situation where the only possible way to win was to use a random syringe on the ground that I didn't know was mine or not. If I had my choice, I would grab a taser and stunned all of the people around me, then shoot Javon with a laser, but as it was, the only ranged weapon was the syringe gun. Why then, is his death my fault? The space law part was to highlight a vital difference between murder and manslaughter. Just as in real life you don't charge serial killers with the same crime as you charge truck drivers, NT considers intent as a variable in the punishment. In the same, universal way, I believe that is it right to consider the unmalicious intent of the accused over the accidental death of a preventable tragedy.

There has to be a line where the value of the possible kill does not outweigh the possible loss. I don't think I've passed this line. Chances are that the warden got defibed and went back to the round in less than two minutes anyways. The risk of the loss was minimal; the reward was great. I don't know why you wouldn't take that shot.

If you wouldn't take that shot, then would you use lasers to fend off a rev greytide, despite the fact that there could be a non-rev in the mix? Can you honestly say that you wouldn't shoot a queen xenomorph despite the fact that you could accidentally shoot behind her, hitting one of her nests, accidentally injuring a player? You wouldn't throw a nade into a clock cult base because there might be a chance that a nonconverted might be hiding somewhere? Or would you not fire your compact shotgun as a bartender when a traitor comes at you with a sword? Should you be scared of getting banned if your wide shots accidentally hits a low-health assistant out of your field of vision and kills him? There is a line where risk and reward collide. Every single admin has a different threshold where it goes "too far". But I believe that even these hypotheticals have already gone much further than I ever did. I didn't use lasers, I didn't use nades, I didn't use bullets. I used a perfectly safe mix that only incapacitates.

Just for clarification. The syringe was filled with 2.5u of Diethylamine, Iodine, Phosphorous, and Hydrogen. This mix actually explodes, I'm not even kidding, it's super robust at stunning. I'm really surprised that not many people know about this already.

[Armhulen]

I'm really doubting this was an explosion syringe, syringes near perma are usually the execution ones. I suppose I could check on the logs, I'll do that. Then, well, I guess we'll see. I really don't know which round number this was so this might not be easy finding it.

[KeyboardCreature]

I saw the explosion. I'm almost certain that it was my syringe. I don't know another chemist who makes these syringes as regularly as I do. Nearly every round, I've killed antags with my weapons. I've protected this station pretty well. Funny story, a few rounds before this one, I actually got a medal from another HoS for protecting the station by killing the wizard and a traitor mine. I expected the same of this round but got killed by Javon when I came into Brig to announce myself.

I think Javon put my stuff in the lockers in the permabrig hallways for some reason. I don't know why, that's a pretty bad place to put potential contraband. He must be new to security, I escaped from him like three times, lol.

Found it! Round 72300!

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... und-72300/

Here's Javon destroying chemdispensers:

[22:49:36]SAY: Billy Herrington/Gravelore : no more chem work
[22:49:38]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:49:38]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:49:43]EMOTE: *no key*/(Runtime) : <b>Runtime</b> wags its tail.
[22:49:43]EMOTE: *no key*/(monkey (741)) : <b>The monkey (741)</b> scratches.
[22:49:44]SAY: Billy Herrington/Gravelore : We fucked
[22:49:44]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:49:44]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:49:44]SAY: Manuel Wilo/armhulenn : LETS GO
[22:49:44]EMOTE: *no key*/(gubbuck) : <b>The gubbuck</b> trills.
[22:49:45]SAY: Irma Vep/AquaRei : Thanks for assuming it was me and insulting me though.
[22:49:45]SAY: Angelina Engleskampf/Cairath : Security guard, are you fucking retarded?
[22:49:46]SAY: Irma Vep/AquaRei : Cock sucker
[22:49:47]EMOTE: *no key*/(gubbuck) : <b>The gubbuck</b> pinches the gibs.
[22:49:47]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : what is this
[22:49:49]SAY: Golem/Deirun : GET INTO THE SHUTTLE
[22:49:49]EMOTE: *no key*/(gubbuck) : <b>The gubbuck</b> pinches the gibs.
[22:49:49]SAY: Garret Green/GreyMime : LOCK IT
[22:49:49]EMOTE: *no key*/(guthen) : <b>The guthen</b> pinches the gibs.
[22:49:49]SAY: Garret Green/GreyMime : BEHIND US
[22:49:50]EMOTE: *no key*/(purple baby slime (864)) : <b>The purple baby slime (864)</b> jiggles!
[22:49:51]SAY: Akish-Aleeto/fantasticfwoosh : ow
[22:49:51]SAY: Ripley Wilson/Andorian_Cabler : what the fuck
[22:49:51]SAY: Medibot/ : I knew it, I should've been a plastic surgeon.
[22:49:52]SAY: The Clown/Nabski : Javon quit that
[22:49:52]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:49:52]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:49:54]EMOTE: *no key*/(gubbuck) : <b>The gubbuck</b> pinches the gibs.
[22:49:54]EMOTE: *no key*/(guthen) : <b>The guthen</b> pinches the gibs.
[22:49:54]SAY: Angelina Engleskampf/Cairath : You can't make those chemical dispensers out of machine frames
[22:49:55]SAY: Akish-Aleeto/fantasticfwoosh : Oh good
[22:49:55]SAY: Kristopher Eastman/Eastwardrope : Not everyone is here
[22:49:56]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : hey
[22:49:57]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : wait
[22:49:57]SAY: Alice Ferrous/SirTophat : ATTENTION STATION SHITCURITY IS DESTROYING CHEM SORRY IF WE DONT HAVE THE MEANS TO HEAL YOU ANYMORE
[22:49:57]SAY: Damion Wolfe/Z71silverado18 : this is unnecessary
[22:49:58]SAY: Kristopher Eastman/Eastwardrope : FUCK
[22:49:58]SAY: Opatieel-Pojeel/McRex : holp
[22:49:58]SAY: Garret Green/GreyMime : LOCK IT
[22:49:59]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:49:59]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:49:59]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : can we have that?
[22:50:00]EMOTE: *no key*/(monkey (302)) : <b>The monkey (302)</b> jumps!
[22:50:01]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : for RnD?
[22:50:01]SAY: Angelina Engleskampf/Cairath : Break that at your own fucking expense.
[22:50:02]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : or botany?
[22:50:03]EMOTE: Chaznoodles/(Javon Gronko) : <b>Javon Gronko</b> sighs.
[22:50:04]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : OOH
[22:50:04]EMOTE: Zack The Zapper/(Lube Skyhonker) : <b>Lube Skyhonker</b> gasps!
[22:50:04]SAY: Sarah Price/Pandaintoast : rude...
[22:50:05]SAY: Ripley Wilson/Andorian_Cabler : what the hell is going on
[22:50:05]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : Officer, you fuck.
[22:50:05]SAY: Kat Neoki/KeyboardCreature : STOP HIM.
[22:50:05]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:50:05]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:50:05]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : NIIIICE
[22:50:06]EMOTE: Zack The Zapper/(Lube Skyhonker) : <b>Lube Skyhonker</b> gasps!
[22:50:07]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : I LIKEE
[22:50:07]SAY: Unknown/xxproxx10 : ?
[22:50:07]GAME: Sunoplyrus/(Sumo Kapana) splashed (thrown) Holy Water at (134,157,2).
[22:50:09]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : The chemist was making deathchems.
[22:50:09]SAY: William Obepmah/TGxSingularity : wew
[22:50:09]SAY: Flint Shaner/Noahnoah55 : clown
[22:50:09]SAY: Manuel Wilo/armhulenn : Do not lock it
[22:50:10]SAY: Akish-Aleeto/fantasticfwoosh : i found cactus
[22:50:12]SAY: Billy Herrington/Gravelore : SPACE HIM
[22:50:12]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : THIS STONE ISS
[22:50:12]SAY: Manuel Wilo/armhulenn : They need to leave!
[22:50:13]SAY: Flint Shaner/Noahnoah55 : give my shit back
[22:50:13]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[22:50:13]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[22:50:14]SAY: Opatieel-Pojeel/McRex : holp ples
[22:50:14]SAY: Khalil Schofield/Fessay : fucks sake javon
[22:50:14]SAY: Kliment Petrenko/IndonesiaArmy : lol
[22:50:14]SAY: purple baby slime (864)/ : Lonely...
[22:50:15]SAY: Damion Wolfe/Z71silverado18 : what the fucdk
[22:50:15]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : PREEETTY
[22:50:15]SAY: Lube Skyhonker/Zack The Zapper : Hi there!
[22:50:16]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : The chemist was making DEATHCHEMS, Khalil.
[22:50:16]SAY: Nice Child/Oogtarded : You mean Captain?
[22:50:17]SAY: Kat Neoki/KeyboardCreature : PROVE IT MOTHERFUCKER.

Here's Javon blowing up all the borgs:

[23:48:33]SAY: Eve Hybrid/Ispiria : Javon, why hell you blew all this borgs?
[23:48:34]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[23:48:34]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[23:48:34]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : HELP
[23:48:34]SAY: Walter Kifer/DoctorMad : I was breaking into the Vault
[23:48:35]SAY: John Trustworthy/Tarktheshark : Breaking into the vault to steal the nuke core.
[23:48:35]SAY: Colton Noton/Oafficial : i don't think anything we do is going to stop her
[23:48:36]SAY: Hal-Hul/xxproxx10 : i am here
[23:48:37]SAY: Smitty Werben/Not megatron : This suit blends in really well with the floor.
[23:48:37]SAY: Unknown/Deitus : whew laddie
[23:48:37]SAY: Unknown/nate1012345 : WHERE AM II
[23:48:39]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : Rogue AI.
[23:48:39]SAY: Walter Kifer/DoctorMad : Ahem,b ullshit
[23:48:40]SAY: Eve Hybrid/Ispiria : Anticipate of rogue?
[23:48:41]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[23:48:41]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[23:48:41]SAY: Opatieel-Pojeel/McRex : I cannot resist as I have no body.
[23:48:42]ACCESS: Login: Jjia from -censored(ip/cid)- || BYOND v511
[23:48:42]ACCESS: Mob Login: Jjia/(Jjia) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
[23:48:43]SAY: Irma Vep/KeyboardCreature : JAVON is shitsec.
[23:48:45]EMOTE: *no key*/(green adult slime (196)) : <b>The green adult slime (196)</b> lights up for a bit, then stops.
[23:48:45]EMOTE: *no key*/(cat) : <b>The cat</b> lies down.
[23:48:46]SAY: Opatieel-Pojeel/McRex : I will comply for the time being.
[23:48:46]SAY: Walter Kifer/DoctorMad : Tell him about the nuke being out of rnage
[23:48:46]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : permabrig her in a cell with the shutters down.
[23:48:48]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[23:48:48]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[23:48:48]SAY: Unknown/Z71silverado18 : where are we
[23:48:48]SAY: Jesus Mendel/Dionysus24779 : Not rogue...
[23:48:49]SAY: Colton Noton/Oafficial : How did you get out?
[23:48:49]SAY: Smitty Werben/Not megatron : The helmet does, at least.
[23:48:49]SAY: Eve Hybrid/Ispiria : I have now MMI brains say they're not were rogue
[23:48:49]SAY: Irma Vep/KeyboardCreature : It's pretty obvious.
[23:48:50]SAY: Walter Kifer/DoctorMad : I mean range
[23:48:51]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : Er.
[23:48:51]EMOTE: *no key*/(cat) : <b>The cat</b> lies down.
[23:48:52]SAY: goat/ : eh?
[23:48:52]SAY: Medibot/ : Hey, Javon Gronko! Hold on, I'm coming.
[23:48:53]SAY: Smitty Werben/Not megatron : We're back on the station.
[23:48:54]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[23:48:54]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[23:48:54]SAY: Issac Riker/Frontline03 : gh
[23:48:56]ACCESS: Mob Login: Qbmax32/(Max Capp) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[23:48:57]SAY: John Trustworthy/Tarktheshark : What the fuck is he reambling about
[23:48:57]SAY: Walter Kifer/DoctorMad : You heard it too right
[23:48:58]SAY: Smitty Werben/Not megatron : Back into the tunnels, c'mon.
[23:48:59]SAY: morph/marcusroland : What happen
[23:48:59]SAY: Eve Hybrid/Ispiria : MMI brain don't have laws and don't need lie for being rogue
[23:48:59]SAY: Unknown/loqoman : HELLO
[23:49:00]SAY: Unknown/Pizzatiger : is the AI rogue?
[23:49:00]EMOTE: *no key*/(Runtime) : <b>Runtime</b> walks around.
[23:49:01]SAY: Unknown/loqoman : BRAIN?
[23:49:01]SAY: Unknown/Z71silverado18 : ahhh
[23:49:03]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Vault
[23:49:03]GAME: Radiation pulse with size (1, 4) and severity 40 in area Syndicate Infiltrator
[23:49:05]SAY: Javon Gronko/Chaznoodles : He was in a radsuit when he was in Science, due to the Misc. Research.
[23:49:05]SAY: Smitty Werben/Not megatron : Also, for the shotgun.
[23:49:05]SAY: Eve Hybrid/Ispiria : They weren't rogue and you blew them like jackass

Here's me trying to shoot Javon and hilariously missing and getting banned:

[23:55:14]ATTACK: Irma Vep(keyboardcreature) fired at Javon Gronko(chaznoodles) with The syringe Prison Wing (NEWHP: 97) (100,177,2)
[23:55:14]ATTACK: Irma Vep(keyboardcreature) shot Bartholomew Mckendrick(notmegatron) with The syringe REAGENTS:diethylamine (2.5) iodine (2.5) phosphorus (2.5) hydrogen (2.5) (NEWHP: 78.4) (99,178,2)

I was disguised as Irma Vep, the dead HoP. How I managed to get his PDA is a long story.

As you can see here, I tried firing the weapon at Javon Gronko but it hit Bartholomew. They were standing only a single tile away so it's clear that I didn't mean to hit Bartholomew.

This is my first time using public logs so tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

Going by server rule, what specific rule did I actually break?
From what I'm reading of rule 1 precedents (You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.) it was perfectly fine to try and kill Jovan.

Also, Security Policy & Precedents, states that "While it is up to the discretion of the security player, lethal force may be used on a mob of players trying to force entry into the brig. Additionally, lethal force may be used immediately on anyone trying to enter the armoury, is in the armoury, or is leaving it". I would argue that this is a situation that might put innocent players at risk. Using lethals against a mob or a person just exiting the armory might result in an innocent player dying, yet TG rules permits it.

If security is held to a higher standard than the crew, then why is security iallowed to take actions that might injure crewmembers and I can't? If the possibility of a crew member dying is minimal compared to the benefit of the action (self-preservation, killing a xenomorph queen, beating back an army of revs, ect) TG rules explicitly permits it based on the digression of the player.

[Armhulen]

First off thanks for finding logs, that's awesome of you

The kill fell under Rule 1 Precedent 1, but...

1. It was your mix not the lethal injection
2. You did actually try to shoot the hos
3. The hos is a dick.

I'm gonna lift this, and the note. Thanks for appealing

[KeyboardCreature]

Thank you for the lift!