[RougeSteampunker] AnalWerewolf - Jobban and Tempban

[throwaway0618]

Byond account and character name: AnalWerewolf - Casimir Wile (Random name)
Banning admin: RougeSteampunker
Ban type: Jobban - Virologist / Tempban 10080 Minutes
Ban reason and length:
Jobban - https://puu.sh/BxORA/8da44b7e97.png
Tempban - https://puu.sh/BxOTD/3027eeb81f.png
Time ban was placed: Unsure. 19/09/2018
Server you were playing when banned: Bagil

Your side of the story:

I was bored of playing regular jobs at the time and I was in a call with friends (who do not play, nor have interest in SS13 let alone any other server, don't worry.), I was talking to them about the hilarious viruses you could make to mess with people and get reactions, this prompted me to ready up as a random name character for the position of virologist with the intention of creating a meme virus to turn people black, make them cough, and maybe stun them a bit too. I detailed this process in-between jokes and laughter with the aforementioned friends. Upon completion of the virus, I infected myself and went about the station spreading it, I soon realized thought, that my health indicator shifted slightly below 100% and that the stuns and forced drop was pretty damn annoying, to which I decided to get to the ORM to get the cure (gold) and give it to the chemist, I told the chemist to make cures and I hung around in lobby while they processed the material I had gave them (6 gold bars, by the way. It's all that was in the ORM.), that's when Sec found me, tased me, and tried to cuff me. They failed and I ran off to the bar where I found another officer and I asked him (while joking around) to protect me, he cuffed me and turned me in, as I was about to be processed a radiation storm hit, and Sec, being shitsec, decided to leave me cuffed to a chair in a rad storm while they hid in theater maintenance watching me. I pleaded to them and asked them not to do this, but I was ignored, I felt like this was unfair and unnecessary, so after they took me to the brig (and I suddenly noticed I had hulk), I decided to get back at them by breaking out and smashing their windows, while deaf, blind, mute, a dwarf, and probably every possible other mutation, so keep in mind if they said something or did something during this time, I would not be aware of it whatsoever. Eventually though, they shot me and killed me.

Why you think you should be unbanned:

So what's the big deal here right? I released a shitty virus, I realized it was pretty shitty, and I tried to my fullest (before being arrested) to cure the virus.
Sec arrested me, left me in a radstorm for no rasin, I retaliate. Fair right?
I release a shitty virus, I try to cure it, I get killed anyway. Fair right?

What I don't get here is what I did that was so deserving of a permanent jobban and a temporary ban for 7 days for releasing a meme virus that turned out to be shittier than I originally thought it'd be, to which i decided to try to actively cure and undo.

Was it a shitty, dickish move to release a virus that (unintentionally) stuns people to such an extend and turns them black? Fuck yeah it was! And I got my just desserts for it.
Additionally, the virus was made to be entirely non-harmful, however, as I was preoccupied at the time, I forgot about the itching symptom, which I accidentally left un-neutered, however, I am unsure whether this symptom even met the threshold to start doing (minimal) brute damage, and either way, I made sure to try to cure the virus.

The banning admin here failed to specify what rule or precedent I broke in admin PMs and in the ban letter, I have genuinely no idea what part of this constitutes rule breaking, and believe I should have been told before receiving both bans.

It is my firm belief that was happened here was an IC issue and covered in the escalation policy section of the rules. I believe this ban was unfair as not only was I not told what I did wrong, but I had very little in the way of discussion with the banning admin, who seemed emotionally charged in the PMs I received. I admit I responded in a snarky manner, but I saw it fit given the context of this whole situation and past interactions with other people who have done the same. I am open to discussion about this in this thread and I am interested to see what other admins think of this. Perhaps there should be more information in the rules detailing what kinds of viruses are able to be released without having to guess, ask an admin constantly, or nudge the line until something happens.

[Dax Dupont]

Perhaps there should be more information in the rules detailing what kinds of viruses are able to be released without having to guess, ask an admin constantly, or nudge the line until something happens.

Please make a policy thead for this question if you seek an answer.

[Arianya]

TL;DR

Spoiler:

Appeal denied on both fronts for what to me looks like an entirely valid punishment for your actions. Rogue is free to remove or change the server ban if they feel your explanation merits it.

Your claim that you were aware you fucked up with the virus is at odds with your comments in the ticket:

Code: Select all

[2018-09-19 23:46:02.315] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: RogueSteampunker/(Lucy Licorice)->AnalWerewolf/(Casimir Wile): Not even considering the fact that you released a grief virus as a nonantag, that has done nothing more but flood the game with coughs and cause people to freeze up with headaches
[2018-09-19 23:46:34.162] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: AnalWerewolf/(Casimir Wile)->RogueSteampunker/(Lucy Licorice): Yeah, IC issue. It was non-lethal.
[2018-09-19 23:47:36.202] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: AnalWerewolf/(Casimir Wile)->RogueSteampunker/(Lucy Licorice): Oh you're trialadmin. That explains things.
[2018-09-19 23:48:37.979] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: AnalWerewolf/(Casimir Wile)->RogueSteampunker/(Lucy Licorice): If you aren't aware. short of making a virus that actually hurts people, you can do whatever as non-antag. This has been done repeatedly in the past by many others.

Source: https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/basil/ ... 9/game.log (won't be accessible to non-admins)

The banning admin here failed to specify what rule or precedent I broke in admin PMs and in the ban letter, I have genuinely no idea what part of this constitutes rule breaking, and believe I should have been told before receiving both bans.

The rules stateth:

Unprovoked grief (occasionally known as greytiding), repeated cases of minor unprovoked grief, and unprovoked grief targeted towards specific players or groups (i.e. metagrudging) fall under rule 1. Admins may follow up on grief with allowing the affected parties to ignore normal escalation policy or measures such as warnings or bans.

While virologists are given some leniency to do things like blackening viruses, Rogue decided (and I agree) that a virus that caused 8,500 cough messages (I sampled some other rounds and the absolute highest I could find was in the 250 range) and was stunning people besides goes beyond that remit. While admins will (and from my reading of the logs, did try) explain to you why what you did was wrong, I also don't expect the admins to have to rules lawyer debate with you in the middle of the round, and I certainly don't expect them to do so while you condescend to them about their rank.

While lethal viruses are obviously no good as a non-antagonist, this isn't the sole qualifier of a bad virus, which includes things like stuns or excessive spam (which makes it harder for the crew to communicate, generally). Regardless of whether you released it accidentally or not, we tend to take a dim view of this in the same way we would take a dim view of accidents with any other dangerous tool like bombs. Your appeal for the jobban is denied in light of these facts.

While being left in the radstorm may well have been good reason to retaliate against the security officers, we've generally frowned on retaliating against a department in general for the actions of one (or two) memebers of that department. That said, it's difficult for me to analyze how much damage you did from just the logs (and I'm tired of filtering through the cough messages), so I'm going to say the appeal of the server ban is also denied, with the caveat that Rogue is free to change/remove this ban if they feel your argument bears merit.