[Zxaber] Aspirine - maxcaps

[Aspirine]

Byond account and character name: Aspirine, Nickolas Briner
Banning admin: Zxaber
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server
Ban reason: Attempted to max-cap a wizard, and managed to breach the main halls and kill two unrelated people. Has prior warnings about using explosives against antags as a non-antag.
Ban length: 2 days
Time ban was placed (including time zone): Approximately 19:50 EST on July 11
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil

Round ID: 112906

Your side of the story:

I made single-tank maxcaps as atmos. The "fuse" on them once you start the reaction by mixing the gases is around 6 seconds real-time before they go off. I heard over the radio that the wizard was killing a lot of people (the wizard was indeed murderboning throughout the round right up until his / her death), so I went to have a look and was within a few tiles of the wizard above the science foyer, near botany. I started mixing the gases and rushed at the wizard, but he set up a barrier as he ran northwards past the kitchen, preventing me from giving chase despite having a live bomb in my hand. I started going through gateway maint, but that slowed me down and the maxcap went off only after the wizard was long gone. I was gibbed at the epicentre of the explosion, as I was dragging along the maxcap trying to find a place to get rid of it. I believe the two casualties were in the bar or kitchen, near the periphery of the maxcap explosion, but I'm not certain.


Why you think you should be unbanned:

To my recollection I have two prior warnings about using maxcaps against antags (and one month-long ban that I deserved for using maxcaps during an announced extended round, but I do not believe that that is relevant to this particular case). The first was when I tried to maxcap a nightmare / shadowling, and the second was when I maxcapped and killed a nuke op near arrivals somewhere in the area east of the arrivals sec checkpoint, to my recollection. With regards to the nightmare I was warned to be careful about maxcapping an antag whose death would not end the round, and with regards to the nuke op I was warned that the maxcap was too close to arrivals. In a round a long time ago I used a single-tank bomb to maxcap a wizard, ending the round. I received no warning for that.

Although my use of the maxcap was highly ineffective, I don't think I breached server rules by detonating it. There was a serious threat to the station in the form of a wizard who was killing everyone, and I recall several rounds in the past where part of the crew's response to a wizard is for science to hand out TTVs in order for people to try to suicide bomb the wizard. Some of those TTVs are handed out with timers with the idea that the suicide bomber activates the TTV and then rushes at the wizard. Even if the wizard takes him down with a stun, the bomb will still go off. If I had succeeded with my maxcap, I would have successfully ended the round by killing the wizard, who was a major threat to the station.

In my view attempting to maxcap the wizard is not wrong, breaching the main halls and causing collateral damage as a result is, while highly regrettable, to be weighed against the scale of the threat to the station (a wizard trying to kill everyone he sees), and my prior warnings about using explosives against antags do not have any bearing on this particular case since the conditions related to those prior warnings are different from the facts of the matter here.

It's a 2-day ban that I'd be perfectly happy to sit out, but I would like some clarification in order to figure out how I should change my conduct in the future.

[Gigapuddi420]

Weapons of Mass Destruction (like max caps and detonating bags of holding) have been covered in policy and are listed in the Headmin Rulings page of the rules wiki.

Weapons of Mass Destruction to counter antagonists - An example of this is suicide bombing a wizard or BoH bombing the cult base. If use of the weapon does not win the round for your side immediately after, then it is grief and will be treated as such by admins.

Here's the thread the page lists and typically admins follow this policy where non-antag bombings need to finish the round or you are liable for the damages caused.

[Aspirine]

Oh, I had no idea. Thanks for the quote of the wiki. That's enough for me to be satisfied with regards to my particular case. I'm not too sure about that discussion you posted though; in my view there are still some ambiguities especially around dealing with the cult. I'll see everyone in 2 days.

[Gigapuddi420]

The link I posted is of the Headmin (at the time the policy was made) ruling the policy I quoted. The rest of the thread linked is just the discussion around it. Our rules page has a link to a list of previous headmin rulings where I quoted the ruling you were likely banned under.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Headmin_Rulings

[zxaber]

Hello, thanks for stopping by.

Outside of headmin intervention, I am going to leave this ban in place; as Gigapuddi helpfully explained, max-capping an antag is a dangerous game and if you don't end the round, you're on the hook for what it does. The two-day ban represents the two people inadvertently killed by you.