[Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

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HeavenlyPete
Joined: Mon May 16, 2022 5:33 pm

[Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

Post by HeavenlyPete » #641055

note: yes i am deitus though i suppose i have no way of proving it, i dont remember the password for the email i used to register before and i've also long since stopped using the handle Deitus since it was cringey as hell to begin with. in the byond account i made since and in nearly all online accounts i use HeavenlyPete as my handle, so i made a new forum account with this name to appeal the old ban. i may or may not be able to log into tg servers now since i have a new computer/internet/location since i got banned but rather than 1) be dishonest and try to skirt the ban and 2) also risk getting caught anyway somehow, i figured i should just appeal the ban normally. a good chunk of what follows i will be copypasting from my previous appeal thread found here: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=24621&p=525928&hil ... us#p525928
BYOND account: Deitus
Character name: Jonathan Talist
Ban type: server
Ban length: permanent
Ban reason: (typing this out from the previous post's image) broke law 3 as a silicon by asking the crew to order him to suicide, shortly after returning from a silicon ban. this permanent ban is being applied due to the players extensive note history, and should be appealed when they have taken a break and become ready to be a part of our community.
Time ban was placed: 1-31-19 6:39 am according to the screenshot
Server you were playing on when banned: not sure
Round ID in which ban was placed: 101131
Your side of the story: ill just memetext it from what i can remember
>playing as ai
>some person whose name i forget has a history of not liking me
>tries ordering me to do some stupid shit (cant remember what, maybe let into armory or something)
>tell them to fuck off
>they get pissy and yell over radio
>ignore them
>soon find them hacking into sat
>tell borg to stop them
>borg goes up and does nothing
>tell hos
>hos comes in, leaves
>borg deactivates my turrets and allows them in (i think?)
>they card me and put me into a potato
>get 200% mad
>ask someone to order me to kill them over radio
>someone does, i do
>they apparently ahelp cuz they dont get to act smug and keep taunting me
>hulk bwoinks me and we have a personal conversation
>we come to an agreement that it would probably be good for me to take a break from the game
>tells me once i have to come back
so i did
Why you think you should be unbanned: took a break for a long while and recently thought that coming back might be fun, so im here to request the unban as i said.
end of copypaste from last thread.
References of good conduct: i played on /vg/ for a few months i think roughly a year ago (i dont have an exact date) but had to stop due to my work schedule not aligning with when the vast majority of the playerbase was active. i probably shouldnt say this as it would lower my chance of a successful appeal, but as a show of honestly and full disclosure i did receive a few notes and tempbans during that time, mostly due to ai lawyer shennanigans. i tried going on to the /vg/station bans page to find them but apparently the public pages dont go that far back unless i'm missing something. not sure if anyone has contacts with /vg/ and could ask them to look them up, but as i said before i was playing under the name of HeavenlyPete.
anything else we should know: hulk originally said to put some time in other servers and come back in a year back in mid-2019 so its been quite some time since that "time minimum" was met. as i said before the time time in /vg/ was mostly just lawyer stuff afaik (which again, double check), but since that was also some time ago i would hope it doesn't affect my appeal that much.
other notes/potential questions:
>what has changed since then?
a stable job, a house, a mortgage, etc. nothing relevant here but i'd like to think i'm a better person at least. not my call to make.
>what about all your notes and bans?
as i said in the previous thread, many of those bans and notes were questionable at best in my opinion but i never paid them much mind or bothered to appeal them since i didnt think it worth my time. once i saw that it was affecting judgement calls i started to appeal them, but was marked for spam and if i remember correctly put on post approval (not sure). since there's probably no way to go through each one and figure out whether its "legitimate" or not considering the passage of time with the relevant parties and the lack of preserved information/logs, i suppose there's not really anything i can do about them now anyway.
>what about the endgame spoilers?
again as i said in the previous thread, i made that thread as a shitpost in the designated shitposting forum and i dont really think it holds bearing on a server ban. im also 99.99% certain i spoilered the text, but whether or not that makes it any better is subjective.
>how do we know you will be different?
frankly, and again unflatteringly towards a potential successful appeal, all you really have and all i can give is my word that i'll do my best. will i fuck up and get bwoinked? probably, just glancing around the wiki it seems like a massive amount of rules and systems have changed since i left. if i get unbanned i'll read through everything and try to re-familiarize myself with the game, but i'm not going to sugarcoat things and say im going to come out as a shining paragon of a community member. i'll probably trip and fuck up, but hopefully i can get back into the groove of things as a better player than before.

sorry for the essay, ill keep a tab of this thread open over the next few days if any clarification is needed on anything.
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Hulkamania
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:42 pm
Byond Username: Hulkamania

Re: [Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

Post by Hulkamania » #641209

I've read your appeal and I'm not ignoring it, I'm just doing some thinking about it.

A few things I wanted to bring up:

Chiefly, I'm not inclined to have much faith that you've improved when you're openly admitting that you're likely going to get bwoinked again when you start playing. If you were to return you would likely be under even more scrutiny than other people due to the kind of history you have. I'm not a fan of using the word "probation" in the context of getting unbanned but it's a fair enough comparison.

Secondly, I appreciate your level of honesty in this appeal and it's not something I've not taken note of.

Lastly, you're still bringing up the idea that the notes don't matter/were placed incorrectly/you got a raw deal etc. If your opinion is still that you didn't do anything wrong in the vast majority of your cases that doesn't give me too much faith that you've grown much.

This isn't an appeal denial, but I want to give you the opportunity to comment on my current impression of the appeal.
HeavenlyPete
Joined: Mon May 16, 2022 5:33 pm

Re: [Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

Post by HeavenlyPete » #641275

sorry for the late reply, as i said before my schedule is very different now so i only just now got home/done with my workout.
i appreciate your willingness to have a discussion and would like to continue it in this thread even after you've made your decision if possible.
i'll answer each of your points, and i apologize in advance for whats likely to be an essay; i just want to be sure my thoughts are as clear as possible, and i appreciate your patience in fully reading through it.
Hulkamania wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 2:08 am Chiefly, I'm not inclined to have much faith that you've improved when you're openly admitting that you're likely going to get bwoinked again when you start playing. If you were to return you would likely be under even more scrutiny than other people due to the kind of history you have. I'm not a fan of using the word "probation" in the context of getting unbanned but it's a fair enough comparison.
I'm likely to get bwoinked not because I'll be playing to get bwoinked, but because of a few things:
1) most generally, everyone makes mistakes and I'm not going to be one of those people that sits in an appeal thread and says "i'll never ever EVER make a mistake again please unban!" im not going to be actively attempting to get bwoinked or trying to get in situations where a bwoink is possible/likely, but saying i'll never be bwoinked ever again in an attempt to curry favor is disingenuous at best.
2) i enjoyed sec, head, and AI roles, and though i dont plan to dive back into them immediately, if/when i do i think we can agree they tend to be roles where interplayer conflict happens more often which can lead to admin investigations. again, i wont be trying to get into such situations on purpose, but generally speaking they tend to be "hot" roles in that regard.
3) as i said, a massive amount of rules and systems have changed since i left. what might have been ok before can cause a ban now. i'd of course read and familiarize myself as best as possible but there will of course be an acclimation period as i get used to an extremely different server and server culture.
Hulkamania wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 2:08 am Lastly, you're still bringing up the idea that the notes don't matter/were placed incorrectly/you got a raw deal etc. If your opinion is still that you didn't do anything wrong in the vast majority of your cases that doesn't give me too much faith that you've grown much.
this brings two big points to mind for me.
firstly, i do fully believe that some of those notes and bans should not have happened. two examples come to mind when i think back to some that i found especially questionable:
-getting headbanned for saying memes with the crew over radio with the reasoning of "heads of staff are supposed to be mature." when i pointed out some things other heads had done in the past and not had anything done to them, i was ignored.
-getting captain banned after a round where warops was declared. sec and i were handing out weapons to the crew when one person broke into the armory and began stuffing their bag with several weapons. we arrested that person since we wanted to arm the entire crew, but they then began to yell over radio about being unjustly arrested during warops. this then saw the crew kill most of sec despite us trying to explain what the guy had done, and i went into hiding in maint with the disc since the crew was actively calling for me to be killed over radio. the ops, of course, found me and won, and many members of the crew ahelped which led to a ban.
as i said in my previous post these are memories from several years ago and are a generalized series of events, the specifics of which i cant remember, so take them with a grain of salt. bans like these do not make up the majority of my bans and notes, but bans and notes are still bans and notes which reflect extremely negatively on a person regardless of validity.
my point for these examples as well as saying many notes and bans were questionable is not to say that i did not deserve any of them (or even most of them) and that they should be ignored; the notes/bans happened as a result of my actions, which i take full responsibility for and did not mean to imply otherwise. what i DO believe, however, is that for a fair chunk of them i could have at least made a case for removal of notes/reversal of bans had i bothered to appeal them, which i rarely (never? cant recall) did until the end, at which point it was too late to make a difference.

which leads me to my second and most important point of this whole novella im writing, also tying in with my reply to your first point as well as my original post for this appeal: anything i do from now on will likely result in a permaban. this is clearly shown with this ban in the first place; usually suiciding as an AI would probably be just a temp job-ban, but with my history it was elevated to a server permaban. with the amount of notes and bans i have, even very minor infractions (even after a probationary period) will lead the investigating admin seeing all my previous notes/bans and thinking that i haven't changed at all. when i said in my previous post that i wont be a shining paragon of a community member, its not because im not going to try, but because even if i were to play flawlessly according to the rules for years, my history from when i was here before will always follow me; that ONE time i eventually fuck up and arrest someone i shouldnt have, or misinterpret an ai law, or whatever else, thats it. bad things will nearly always outweigh the good, and when another bad thing happens sometime (and again, im not going to try and say it never will), that will more than likely just lead to a permaban rather than another note or ban to add to the pile, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since the pile was last added to. as i said before, i gave up my chance to start with a clean slate since i want to show that im willing to take responsibility for my history despite doing so likely making it much, much more difficult to stay.

im getting overdramatic at this point, but again, im just trying to fully communicate what i'm thinking since you're one of the few admins i remember actually being able to have a discussion with rather than just a " *bwoink* you messed up, banned" kind of thing. from what i remember with the original discussion we had before this ban was placed, the thought was this would be more of a "psuedo-perma" where we both agreed i should take some time from the game and come back in the future. nearly three years later i'd like to think i'm ready for another chance, but either way i appreciate you taking the time to genuinely speak with me about it, both then and now.
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Hulkamania
In-Game Game Master
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:42 pm
Byond Username: Hulkamania

Re: [Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

Post by Hulkamania » #642603

I've been flip flopping on this since it was posted and I've come to the decision that I'm going to lift this ban. I don't believe in the entire "probation" concept but I would very much keep in mind your history despite how long its been.

I'm not feeling 100% confident about this, but I feel I would be going back on my word if I didn't unban you, as I did indeed tell you that you should return after a break, and a break it has been.

Rest assured that if I hear any word of misconduct I'll personally come have words with you, but this ban will be lifted.
HeavenlyPete
Joined: Mon May 16, 2022 5:33 pm

Re: [Hulkmania] Deitus - returning after a break v2

Post by HeavenlyPete » #642660

fair enough, thank you for the unban. i wont be logging in right away but when i get around to it i'll ping an admin to tell them who i am and have them migrate the notes or do whatever it is they need to do.
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