[JOBBAN and Note Appeal] Zack24 v. Derrick Chamberlain

[Derrick Chamberlain]

BYOND account: Whiskey_oneone
Character name: Derrick Chamberlain
Ban type: Role Ban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Staff Officer, Pilot Officer, Chief Ship Engineer, Ship Technician, Requisitions Officer, Medical Doctor permanently - Held red disk as a CSE in LV624, when talked to on why they did so, said "Yes", and disconnected. When he reconnected 3 minutes later, asked again for a reason they said "Does it need explanation? Playing objectives. Also this has not been an issue in all that time when I see other people doing it constantly." Seeing others do it isn't an excuse. Has been permabanned from CMO a year ago for frontlining. Feel free to appeal this all shipside perma role-ban at the fourms if you feel this is unfair. viewforum.php?f=70
Time ban was placed: 2022-12-14 02:40:04
Round ID in which ban was placed: 18323
Your side of the story: I was playing a late night CSE roll. The map was LV-624, and I decided that I would help the marines by fortifying at Bar, at the time that was red disk. We were on LZ2, and this was not very far, and has been done plenty of times in the past with no issues. I was solo, and set up cades along the walls and doors that were most vulnerable, and did my best with the limited resources I had available on my person. As time proceeds and the round advances. The marines are stagnated with their push at research just below medbay as there was a hell maze north of their position. I was watching the map and keeping command updated on my disk status. At this some time has elapsed and I was still running the disk unimpeded in my task. When out of no where two runners and a drone (Or vice versa) began to besiege Fort Chamberlain (Bar outpost) seeing as I was alone, and very much unaware of what the xenos had said or what they had planning, I presumed that I was in for a T3 surge that would no doubt see the end of me. I started to make call outs that I need a small team and I needed backup. I was holding my own for now, a runner attempted to enter, did successfully, but I fought them off with little trouble. As I had at the time thought was an impending swarm. I held out for a little bit before deciding that it was in my best interest, and seeing the unphased marines not acknowledging my call to arms, to flee and retreat back to FOB. However not before the drones and the runners decided that they wanted a piece of Derrick before I ran. They ambushed me and I managed to fight off 2 out of the three xenos before the last one ran off and I was able to leave my fort. (I fell back into it at some point as it was the only place that had cades close by) Around this time when it was clear and still not knowing if the rest of the hive was coming or not. I fled back to the FOB, where I was then BWOINKED by Zack24 and the rest was history.
Why you think you should be unbanned: Why do I think I should be unbanned? The severity of the offense and punishment that was dealt to me was extremely overhanded. I find it confounding as to why I was punished so harshly that I was completely removed from the ability to play command, save for FCDR. I think the punishment was overzealous, and it did spark some debate at the time whether or not the rules should stay in place. I think even the admin in question that dealt the ban could agree that the punishment was overzealous. The conduct and the actions that took place in the round at the time of the incident I just find it incredibly hard to argue that I was front lining simply for holding a fortified position and xenos just happen to attack, not once had I pursued the xenos into the hive, into the cave.
References of good conduct: *Just a job ban*

[Derrick Chamberlain]

Attached below is the events as they transpired at the time of playing.

[Zack24]

Hello, thank you for appealing your jobban, I'll write out the rule that was broken here.

Rule 5 Precedents #4.

4. Shipside roles should not deploy if their departments are not being taken care of. They should not leave their departments completely abandoned either. If they wish to deploy, they must get permission from their higher-ups as per the chain of command (see precedent 3), and are not allowed to leave the FOB while deployed.
The Chief Ship Engineer and Ship Technicians are given some leniency, they are allowed to deploy to the FOB to aid in reinforcing it. Similarly, the Chief Medical Officer and Medical Officers are also given some leniency for performing FOB surgery. However, neither should be leaving the FOB regardless of reasoning. The following is a list of the shipside roles: Staff Officer, Pilot Officer, Chief Ship Engineer, Ship Technician, Requisitions Officer, Chief Medical Officer, and Medical Officer.

You may, argue the point of your actions not being front lining, unfortunately the crux of the issue is the act of leaving the fob at all. The rules give 0 leniency on leaving FOB, only giving leniency to deploy to fob reinforce it without the need of having to ask for permission from a higher up.

All of your shipside roles were banned due to the lack of trust of you following this rule at all, no improvement has been shown throughout your time up to this ban, and your reference of good conduct needs to be properly set if you have any.

If there is nothing else, you may appeal again with the usual after 1 month period. I will be locking and moving this topic after 2 days.

[Derrick Chamberlain]

Except that that rule is so inconsistently followed and applied all around. And even at the time I had a headmin in game (Lewd) as command have me move to a front and reinforce it as a seocndary FOB. an FOB is not just the LZ it can be anywhere if you have the materials and the means to make it happen. Which I did. granted it was minimal, however I will argue we have seen various minimal FOBs that work and early on usually CSE has only what they had coming in and have to make due until requisitions can and will send supplies. And if I had the tad and build that place up it would have been fine, but what if it left without me? Now I am stuck there as I was before am I still breaking the rules? I was behind cades I was not actively persuing xenos into caves or deep into the hive. I was remaining within and near my cades in the very same manner that I would be if I was at the FOB, which doing the math I was closer to the FOB than the actual front line was to the FOB. You can have forward FOBs and I have seen CSEs and STs deployed to those without tad, or the tad just up and left. My biggest annoyance is the inconsistent applications of the rules and the absolute heavy handed nature of the ban dispensed when all you had to do was tell me to F-OFF back to FOB, as many other admins did. I just sounds good and just hung out at FOB the rest of the OP.

[Derrick Chamberlain]

Hello, thank you for appealing your jobban, I'll write out the rule that was broken here.

Rule 5 Precedents #4.

4. Shipside roles should not deploy if their departments are not being taken care of. They should not leave their departments completely abandoned either. If they wish to deploy, they must get permission from their higher-ups as per the chain of command (see precedent 3), and are not allowed to leave the FOB while deployed.
The Chief Ship Engineer and Ship Technicians are given some leniency, they are allowed to deploy to the FOB to aid in reinforcing it. Similarly, the Chief Medical Officer and Medical Officers are also given some leniency for performing FOB surgery. However, neither should be leaving the FOB regardless of reasoning. The following is a list of the shipside roles: Staff Officer, Pilot Officer, Chief Ship Engineer, Ship Technician, Requisitions Officer, Chief Medical Officer, and Medical Officer.

You may, argue the point of your actions not being front lining, unfortunately the crux of the issue is the act of leaving the fob at all. The rules give 0 leniency on leaving FOB, only giving leniency to deploy to fob reinforce it without the need of having to ask for permission from a higher up.

All of your shipside roles were banned due to the lack of trust of you following this rule at all, no improvement has been shown throughout your time up to this ban, and your reference of good conduct needs to be properly set if you have any.

If there is nothing else, you may appeal again with the usual after 1 month period. I will be locking and moving this topic after 2 days.

To be fair how can I show improvement when you have quite literally taken ALL command roles save for aux command and FC, and I was away for almost a year from the game. It would be physically impossible since it was permanent.

[Derrick Chamberlain]

To that end what did I do to break Captain rules? So SO, I played those with the sole intention of never leaving ship. Yet I was so flagrantly blanket banned on that behalf.

[Derrick Chamberlain]

I recall you also were very weakly justifying that it was not fortified because of an uncaded window, which sure, however I was not fully kitted and I was more concerned with the big points of egress and would later address it, if I was still there for much longer. And regardless it was only weak to a runner at the time. Does using wood to fortify the LZ not make it a proper FOB? It makes it weak for sure.

[Derrick Chamberlain]

I am going to go ahead and guess I am not going to get any further correspondence in this matter as you are resolute in your judgement of the heavy handed ban. I would definitely appreciate something.

[Zack24]

To accelerate things, I will answer your posts in order.

1. The complaint on the inconsistent following and appliance by admins, along with the examples you gave under the appliance of Lewdicifer's decision is much better discussed in the proper discord channel or the policy forum subtopic.

Forum: viewforum.php?f=67
Discord: https://discord.com/channels/4985696460 ... 6442822715

Otherwise, most of your post speaks of hypotheticals, and you had never mentioned such arrangement/prior judgement given to me in the ticket we had.

(Image of ticket here.)

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Opening the image up in a separate tab by clicking it, will fix any quality issues.
If people are confused or wondering what are the notes in question, it was referring to his previous permaban on CMO, along with a week ban, and 2 month difference between an older ban on Synth. (The ban is obsolete and removed, but kept as a note to denote repeat behavior.) This current ban has a year difference from CMO ban. (2021-10-28, 2022-12-24)

2. I would be amenable to allow captain & RO to be removed from the roles that were set to rolebanned, as for your inactivity I think I would return the question to you, how can you show us improvement if you were away for almost a year? Regardless I'll leave it at that.

3. Refer to 2.

4. You are referring to a conversation on discord, where a player had asked for the general reason of your ban. (Which you replied to 2 months later.) As for the later half of the post, I have recorded the entire event, the details are not lost on me.


Question: https://discord.com/channels/4985696460 ... 9755346974
If any of the images above or below have quality issues, click on the image to have it opened up in a separate tab.
(Image of question)

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Delayed reply: https://discord.com/channels/4985696460 ... 8059470898
(Image of delayed reply)

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Window comment in question: https://discord.com/channels/4985696460 ... 9185219684
(double image of both the discord reply and a better look of the screenshot.)

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To give a proper resolution to this appeal, What will happen is as follows.

Your bans will be edited to remove Captain, and RO off the list.
Discussion on the rule on that was broken will either continue in Forums or #Policy on discord.

Refrain from continuing this forum conversation if the served paragraph or sentence has no capability in affecting your appeal in a major way. If there is nothing else, this topic will be closed after 2 days yet again.