Faiths and religions

Munchlax · Post by **Munchlax** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:57 am #39939

maybe, dunno
nobody cares tho

Incomptinence · Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:24 pm

If you want a god. Make one.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:22 pm #39950

im p. sure maths is the leading force behind mathematics, physics, biology and logic.

p. sure.

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:19 pm #39998

I have a friend who is such a hipster/contrarian or whatever he legit believes Scientology might be based in fact.

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:56 pm #40012

Kraso · Post by **Kraso** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:46 pm #40022

Violaceus wrote:I believe that God is a force of mathematic, physics, biology and especially logic, he is basically all laws of the universe.

Not some old bearded guy from sky.

Am I right?

remember kids, don't feed satan

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:03 pm #40037

:filiahat:

QuartzCrystal · Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:12 am

Violaceus wrote:I believe that God is a force of mathematic, physics, biology and especially logic, he is basically all laws of the universe.

Not some old bearded guy from sky.

Am I right?

Possibly, but current evidence would point to no.

Kavaloosh · Post by **Kavaloosh** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:44 am #40715

everyone i know is lutheran

guess where i live

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:10 am #40743

Vatican City

Kraso · Post by **Kraso** » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:13 pm #40887

Kavaloosh wrote:everyone i know is lutheran

guess where i live

Ethiopia

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:41 pm #41118

Violaceus wrote:What evidence

Null hypothesis, Occam's razor, etc

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:52 pm #41132

Mostly because he did not believe faith was open to logic or reason, he wouldn't have considered his principle relevant to God's existence.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:53 pm #41133

gott ist tott

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:58 pm #41211

>I'm only non catholic (or christian at all) i know
Most religions are retarded and talking about them is even more retarded.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:09 pm #41237

>dislike religion because it has so big holes in it that i'm suprised people don't see them
>ur retard

This is literally why religion is worst thing to talk about.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:38 pm #41244

it's 30% nationwide.

If kot lives in some small little village or a small town the catholic rates can go much higher than 30%.
I know, since I was born in some backwater rural village that while nowadays Portugal only has 18% regular mass attendance nationwide there was pretty much >90% attendance in the village.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:44 pm #41257

a pleasure im sure.

Kavaloosh · Post by **Kavaloosh** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:46 pm #41275

Violaceus wrote:Thanks god I live in most enlightened region of Poland

>he lives in poland

InThePooPoo · Post by **InThePooPoo** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:00 am #41295

poland is like the shittiest country to be patriotic about
like honestly people from south africa have more to be proud of

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:16 am #41306

lol you could have said like, syria
south africa has actually been relevant within the past 50 years

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:30 am #41318

getting rid of apartheid

Kavaloosh · Post by **Kavaloosh** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:55 am #41325

Violaceus wrote:
InThePooPoo wrote:poland is like the shittiest country to be patriotic about
like honestly people from south africa have more to be proud of
like what?

it's okay violator, i live in poland too

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:38 am #41333

[youtube]buL9GsYvKWY[/youtube]

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:46 am #41337

thanks johnny 5

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:30 am #41379

can we start posting fedoras yet

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:49 am #41386

I think all religions were originally a guide to a certain philosophy and simple rules to live your life by so you can be healthy and happy. If you study e.g. Islam, it's not all about beating wives and getting virgins when you die, it's basically a guide to living a good life - here's how to keep yourself hygienic, here's how to remind yourself of being thankful every morning, midday and evening about being alive. At some point people might've asked "why should I do this?" and they got told "else you'll suffer" (meaning most likely that you won't remember to be thankful and start being a whiny bitch about life in general), and in Christianity that thing got mixed up with "you'll suffer after your death... unless you give us money", and since then it's a more of a huge money business.

I think most of the biggest things you can learn from life can be learned from the simplest facts: I will die. All of this is temporary, this keyboard and this screen are slowly rusting etc.

It's weird how most Christians have heard "god is everywhere" and "heaven is within you", but still talk about "going" to heaven after they die, and god "watching" you, pointing upwards, etc.
And the most funny thing is about Christianity's forgiveness and acceptance which is HIGHLY emphasized, "god forgives everyone - except gays and other religions, that is!".

Snake2512 · Post by **Snake2512** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:04 am #41387

kosmos wrote:I think all religions were originally a guide to a certain philosophy

Sorry kid but thats technically incorrect if you look at St. Augustine. Christianity was originally NOT a philosophy, it was because of this reason that St. Augustine went around trying to merge Plato's teachings that didn't conflict with Christianity. In today's world most of the Catholic's teachings are heavily influenced by what Plato taught etc

also

>Christianity
>money business

MUUUUM THE BIG BAD CATHOLICS BEAT ME UP AGAIN, yeah there was corruption right through the catholic church at one point but today the Catholics are responsible for a large portion of charities around the world.

If you aren't religious you are a massive pleb who THINKS he knows what hes talking about, but in reality you don't. And I swear to God if any of the following are said even once through this thread, I will shoot you

>religion is the biggest killer
>religion opposes science
>god hasn't done anything for me so y shuld i do sometin 4 him??????????

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:16 am #41389

Snake2512 wrote:-snip-

I don't know if you're intentionally looking to have a fight here, but sorry if I got you worked up, that wasn't my intention. My interpretation of philosophy might be technically too vast, I haven't studied the subject or anything, these are just my own experiences.
You targeted only my first paragraph and ignored the two last ones, which were something I wanted to have more emphasis on. Especially the middle one, do you have any opinions about that?

Just trying to switch the subject from "my view of religion is better than your view of religion!" to "peace & love & spirituality & being human, niggas".

Snake2512 · Post by **Snake2512** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:03 am #41402

kosmos wrote:
Snake2512 wrote:-snip-
I don't know if you're intentionally looking to have a fight here, but sorry if I got you worked up, that wasn't my intention. My interpretation of philosophy might be technically too vast, I haven't studied the subject or anything, these are just my own experiences.
You targeted only my first paragraph and ignored the two last ones, which were something I wanted to have more emphasis on. Especially the middle one, do you have any opinions about that?

Just trying to switch the subject from "my view of religion is better than your view of religion!" to "peace & love & spirituality & being human, niggas".

Nah im just a bit aggressive is all sorry m8.

Right lets see

'It's weird how most Christians have heard "god is everywhere" and "heaven is within you", but still talk about "going" to heaven after they die, and god "watching" you, pointing upwards, etc.
And the most funny thing is about Christianity's forgiveness and acceptance which is HIGHLY emphasized, "god forgives everyone - except gays and other religions, that is!".'

I'm not too sure what you mean by your first sentence, but it simply sounds to me like a cultural thing/saying. However for your second one It varies from which version of Christianity we are talking about here, the Protestants, Orthodox and Catholics views what God sees as acceptable is all different. In terms of 'God doesn't like gays' the Catholic Church teaches while homosexuality is a religious sin, it is not a moral one and you can repent for it. If we are going by the New Testament (old testament is for punks and jews) then Homosexuals can be forgiven if they do not practise homosexuality after they have asked for forgiveness. In terms of 'other religions' our new Pope has said that the Lord will allow those who preach other religions to be forgiven, as long as they repent for their sin the same acceptance and forgiveness is extended.

I'm no priest so I am going off my Catholic education and the current statements made by our Pope.

'I think most of the biggest things you can learn from life can be learned from the simplest facts: I will die. All of this is temporary, this keyboard and this screen are slowly rusting etc.'

Those are the words of a certain philosopher I can't remember the name of, so it can't really relate to spirituality if that makes sense.

' If you study e.g. Islam, it's not all about beating wives and getting virgins when you die, it's basically a guide to living a good life - here's how to keep yourself hygienic, here's how to remind yourself of being thankful every morning, midday and evening about being alive. At some point people might've asked "why should I do this?" and they got told "else you'll suffer" (meaning most likely that you won't remember to be thankful and start being a whiny bitch about life in general), and in Christianity that thing got mixed up with "you'll suffer after your death... unless you give us money", and since then it's a more of a huge money business.'

The first half about Islam is true, they did write out the laws an Islamic person should live their life like. However the second part is a ambiguous and a misrepresentation of the Catholic Church, as it seems you only focused on a certain period. It makes it look like you've been watching too much cartoons or are stuck in the 1400s.

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:26 am #41429

Snake2512 wrote:If you aren't religious you are a massive pleb who THINKS he knows what hes talking about, but in reality you don't.

A+ argument.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:54 pm #41480

Violaceus wrote:No, you are retarded because you stated that you don't know non-catholics.

- only 30% of population reguralry visists church
- this percentage is much lower in younger generations where dominant opinions are "fuck church" and "I don't care"

Therefore, assuming you have 100% accurate knowledge of people you know, you live in clerical school or you don't know anyone outside your basement.

Yeah, maybe only 30% of people visit church every sunday or whatever. But a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more still says they're catholics. And while they can not give a shit about tradition, they still belive in God, and that makes them christians.

Violaceus wrote:nope

He forgives people that confess and generally do something. He just doesn't throw forgiveness at everyone, there is a reason why sinners go to hell according to Bible.
But, IMHO we shouldn't beg God for forgiveness, he should beg us.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:20 pm #41486

Violaceus wrote:You have literally zero idea of actual catholic doctrines.

Hell is empty.

Wikipedia wrote:The Roman Catholic Church defines Hell as "a state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed." One finds themselves in Hell as the result of dying in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love, becoming eternally separated from Him by one's own free choice immediately after death.

Yup.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:41 pm #41494

Violaceus wrote:I don't think wikipedia is more accurate than what said bishop Edward when I was talking with him

>Something that is checked by thousands of people, including Christians, proably some theologians too and is protected so it was not vandalized must be false because some bishop said so

Man, i know this thing, i can see logic behind it but Bible says literally that non-belivers go to hell (while also saying that Jesus died for EVERYONE) so, you know, it doesn't really make sense. Not to mention that tradition says that people go to hell if they have even a single mortal (big one) sin.

EDIT:
John 8:24
John 6:44
Exodus 32:33
Also final judgement proves Jesus didin't saved everyone.
Matthew 25:31-46

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:49 pm #41522

Kot wrote:He forgives people that confess and generally do something. He just doesn't throw forgiveness at everyone, there is a reason why sinners go to hell according to Bible.
But, IMHO we shouldn't beg God for forgiveness, he should beg us.

You get more self-righteous with every post, I swear

Kot wrote:Man, i know this thing, i can see logic behind it but Bible says literally that non-belivers go to hell (while also saying that Jesus died for EVERYONE) so, you know, it doesn't really make sense. Not to mention that tradition says that people go to hell if they have even a single mortal (big one) sin.

EDIT:
John 8:24
John 6:44
Exodus 32:33
Also final judgement proves Jesus didin't saved everyone.
Matthew 25:31-46

Jesus did die for everyone, though. Some people don't want to be saved and some people don't live for him, and I shouldn't have to explain that that won't get you into heaven.

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:35 pm #41538

Maccus wrote:
Kot wrote:He forgives people that confess and generally do something. He just doesn't throw forgiveness at everyone, there is a reason why sinners go to hell according to Bible.
But, IMHO we shouldn't beg God for forgiveness, he should beg us.
You get more self-righteous with every post, I swear

Yeah, proably. I'm open to discuss stuff though.

Maccus wrote:Jesus did die for everyone, though. Some people don't want to be saved and some people don't live for him, and I shouldn't have to explain that that won't get you into heaven.

That's is how it was stated in Bible, though it also differs from person to person (and from one part of Bible to other). Officialy church says you need to convert before you die (even if Pope wanted to say something else), but some tell that God asks you if you belive in him after you die. And you would have to be literally 101% retarded to say no to him in face, of course if he exists (at least in the way he is portrayed, because if you consider some things it appears he is not as good as in popular opinion).

Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

InThePooPoo · Post by **InThePooPoo** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:53 pm #41542

Kot wrote: Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

Most people believe (myself and most of the Lutheran Church included) that you are most likely given a final chance to repent at the gates of heaven. I'm absolutely certain that people who are misguided1 or acting for a misguiding cause2 such as the men you mentioned are (can be) forgiven. If they weren't, there'd be a lot of African kids in hell.

1: Atheists or otherwise nonbelievers
2: The Crusades

Kot · Post by **Kot** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:13 pm #41546

Kot wrote:But some tell that God asks you if you belive in him after you die. And you would have to be literally 101% retarded to say no to him in face, of course if he exists.

InThePooPoo wrote: Most people believe (myself and most of the Lutheran Church included) that you are most likely given a final chance to repent at the gates of heaven. I'm absolutely certain that people who are misguided1 or acting for a misguiding cause2 such as the men you mentioned are (can be) forgiven. If they weren't, there'd be a lot of African kids in hell.

I am aware of that but for some reason i was always told that you need to get to a priest before you die or won't be let in heaven because of sins. Never really got into that one though so i'm unsure.

InThePooPoo wrote: 1: Atheists or otherwise nonbelievers
2: The Crusades

Wut?

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:12 pm #41582

Kot wrote:Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

I highly doubt that and would like your source.

“I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.” — Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:24 pm #41585

i dont really believe in any religion, but i also dont put any thought into that either. so i guess im kind of an apatheist? idk
IMO whatever religion you believe in is the one that is true to you, and if you follow your religion to become a good person, thats good on you
for me i just dont like the idea of one faith dictating my life when there are so many that conflict with eachother, it just doesnt make sense to me to have to pick one when they're all equally ambiguous

Maccus · Post by **Maccus** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:17 am #41635

I think they call that agnostic

InThePooPoo · Post by **InThePooPoo** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:26 am #41649

I'd like to state fully and clearly, that this is a terrible topic to debate if you ever want to have friends, by the way.

nsos · Post by **nsos** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:32 am #41652

what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

Kavaloosh · Post by **Kavaloosh** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:33 am #41653

nsos wrote:what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

told

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:02 am #41669

Maccus wrote:I think they call that agnostic

nah cause its not that i dunno if theres a god or whatever
i know i dont believe in a religion, i just dont really care

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:00 am #41740

InThePooPoo wrote:I'd like to state fully and clearly, that this is a terrible topic to debate if you ever want to have friends, by the way.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:37 pm #41775

Snake2512 wrote:
kosmos wrote:It's weird how most Christians have heard "god is everywhere" and "heaven is within you", but still talk about "going" to heaven after they die, and god "watching" you, pointing upwards, etc.
I'm not too sure what you mean by your first sentence, but it simply sounds to me like a cultural thing/saying.

I mean the way people talk about things.
The easiest way (and a very popular way) to understand heaven and hell is that they're "some places located somewhere", but (I had to look it up) Jesus himself said that kingdom of God is within you. I think this should be taken very literally, they're inside our mind.

In my opinion the words can be changed from heaven --> enlightenment and hell --> suffering. They're right here, right now. Your choice. If you're not satisfied about your current situation, you're in hell. If you're truly content about your situation, you're enlightened. And suddenly this becomes something very similar to Buddhism. But this is just my view on this, to make sense out of a prophet's words.

Snake2512 wrote:
kosmos wrote:I think most of the biggest things you can learn from life can be learned from the simplest facts: I will die. All of this is temporary, this keyboard and this screen are slowly rusting etc.
Those are the words of a certain philosopher I can't remember the name of, so it can't really relate to spirituality if that makes sense.

How is this all of a sudden some incomprehensible spirituality and not similar to religions? These are the simplest observations of our existence, I'm quite sure you can at least partly relate.
And sure, some philosopher must've said that sometime, but the point was that anyone of us can see these facts: No one has lived forever, everything slowly breaks if given enough time, death of my body is extremely certain, losing all my wealth, property and stuff.

What can I make of these simple things? Well, why hoard money to myself if I'm going to lose it? Why be angry at someone if we're both going to be dead very soon (in a wide perspective)? Should I take things seriously? Why hold up an ego?

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:43 pm #41792

Just as a note, I am not overly religious myself, but I am a Russian Orthodox and wear a cross pretty much every day.

Now, for me at least religion isnt really all that much about god himself, but rather the culture and tradition behind all the beliefs. If you have ever been inside some churches and monistaries in Russia they are absolutely fucking beautiful. Religion to me is a lot about trying to find out what other people believe and think about. Have I been inside a Catholic church besides any conservative Orthodox christian probably telling me Id burn in hell? Yep I have. Would I go to a mosque, a buddhist temple, or attend a hindu ceremony (which goes back like 10,000 years holy dicks)? Fuck yes I would. Besides probably not believing in any of those beliefs I still respect them and want to learn more about them, because they often define cultures. I have nothing against atheism, but if you think you can learn much about a culture or a country without learning about it's religion you are pretty much wrong.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:34 pm #41804

nsos wrote:what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

friends r wat makes the world go round

they like make a dent in the space time fabric and shit and then we fly around it like a marble or something i dunno

Rumpelstiltskin3 · Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:49 pm

I'm an Atheist. I hate the idea of a God, and believe that men themselves are the superior being. We have created civilization, language, writing, technology, and have dominated almost every species known.A man is god to all it creates and destroys.