Faiths and religions

[Kot]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I don't think wikipedia is more accurate than what said bishop Edward when I was talking with him

>Something that is checked by thousands of people, including Christians, proably some theologians too and is protected so it was not vandalized must be false because some bishop said so

Man, i know this thing, i can see logic behind it but Bible says literally that non-belivers go to hell (while also saying that Jesus died for EVERYONE) so, you know, it doesn't really make sense. Not to mention that tradition says that people go to hell if they have even a single mortal (big one) sin.

EDIT:
John 8:24
John 6:44
Exodus 32:33
Also final judgement proves Jesus didin't saved everyone.
Matthew 25:31-46

[Maccus]

He forgives people that confess and generally do something. He just doesn't throw forgiveness at everyone, there is a reason why sinners go to hell according to Bible.
But, IMHO we shouldn't beg God for forgiveness, he should beg us.

You get more self-righteous with every post, I swear

Man, i know this thing, i can see logic behind it but Bible says literally that non-belivers go to hell (while also saying that Jesus died for EVERYONE) so, you know, it doesn't really make sense. Not to mention that tradition says that people go to hell if they have even a single mortal (big one) sin.

EDIT:
John 8:24
John 6:44
Exodus 32:33
Also final judgement proves Jesus didin't saved everyone.
Matthew 25:31-46

Jesus did die for everyone, though. Some people don't want to be saved and some people don't live for him, and I shouldn't have to explain that that won't get you into heaven.

[Kot]

He forgives people that confess and generally do something. He just doesn't throw forgiveness at everyone, there is a reason why sinners go to hell according to Bible.
But, IMHO we shouldn't beg God for forgiveness, he should beg us.

You get more self-righteous with every post, I swear

Yeah, proably. I'm open to discuss stuff though.

Jesus did die for everyone, though. Some people don't want to be saved and some people don't live for him, and I shouldn't have to explain that that won't get you into heaven.

That's is how it was stated in Bible, though it also differs from person to person (and from one part of Bible to other). Officialy church says you need to convert before you die (even if Pope wanted to say something else), but some tell that God asks you if you belive in him after you die. And you would have to be literally 101% retarded to say no to him in face, of course if he exists (at least in the way he is portrayed, because if you consider some things it appears he is not as good as in popular opinion).

Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

[InThePooPoo]

Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

Most people believe (myself and most of the Lutheran Church included) that you are most likely given a final chance to repent at the gates of heaven. I'm absolutely certain that people who are misguided1 or acting for a misguiding cause2 such as the men you mentioned are (can be) forgiven. If they weren't, there'd be a lot of African kids in hell.

1: Atheists or otherwise nonbelievers
2: The Crusades

[Kot]

But some tell that God asks you if you belive in him after you die. And you would have to be literally 101% retarded to say no to him in face, of course if he exists.

Most people believe (myself and most of the Lutheran Church included) that you are most likely given a final chance to repent at the gates of heaven. I'm absolutely certain that people who are misguided1 or acting for a misguiding cause2 such as the men you mentioned are (can be) forgiven. If they weren't, there'd be a lot of African kids in hell.

I am aware of that but for some reason i was always told that you need to get to a priest before you die or won't be let in heaven because of sins. Never really got into that one though so i'm unsure.

1: Atheists or otherwise nonbelievers
2: The Crusades

Wut?

[Maccus]

Also, afaik, if you die with a single major sin, there is no heaven for you. So did he die for literally everyone? What about all those christian guys who fought in wars and killed someone before they died? They didin't wanted to be saved, huh?

I highly doubt that and would like your source.

“I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.” — Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)

[miggles]

i dont really believe in any religion, but i also dont put any thought into that either. so i guess im kind of an apatheist? idk
IMO whatever religion you believe in is the one that is true to you, and if you follow your religion to become a good person, thats good on you
for me i just dont like the idea of one faith dictating my life when there are so many that conflict with eachother, it just doesnt make sense to me to have to pick one when they're all equally ambiguous

[Maccus]

I think they call that agnostic

[InThePooPoo]

I'd like to state fully and clearly, that this is a terrible topic to debate if you ever want to have friends, by the way.

[nsos]

what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

[Kavaloosh]

what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

told

[miggles]

I think they call that agnostic

nah cause its not that i dunno if theres a god or whatever
i know i dont believe in a religion, i just dont really care

[fleure]

I'd like to state fully and clearly, that this is a terrible topic to debate if you ever want to have friends, by the way.

[kosmos]

It's weird how most Christians have heard "god is everywhere" and "heaven is within you", but still talk about "going" to heaven after they die, and god "watching" you, pointing upwards, etc.

I'm not too sure what you mean by your first sentence, but it simply sounds to me like a cultural thing/saying.

I mean the way people talk about things.
The easiest way (and a very popular way) to understand heaven and hell is that they're "some places located somewhere", but (I had to look it up) Jesus himself said that kingdom of God is within you. I think this should be taken very literally, they're inside our mind.

In my opinion the words can be changed from heaven --> enlightenment and hell --> suffering. They're right here, right now. Your choice. If you're not satisfied about your current situation, you're in hell. If you're truly content about your situation, you're enlightened. And suddenly this becomes something very similar to Buddhism. But this is just my view on this, to make sense out of a prophet's words.

I think most of the biggest things you can learn from life can be learned from the simplest facts: I will die. All of this is temporary, this keyboard and this screen are slowly rusting etc.

Those are the words of a certain philosopher I can't remember the name of, so it can't really relate to spirituality if that makes sense.

How is this all of a sudden some incomprehensible spirituality and not similar to religions? These are the simplest observations of our existence, I'm quite sure you can at least partly relate.
And sure, some philosopher must've said that sometime, but the point was that anyone of us can see these facts: No one has lived forever, everything slowly breaks if given enough time, death of my body is extremely certain, losing all my wealth, property and stuff.

What can I make of these simple things? Well, why hoard money to myself if I'm going to lose it? Why be angry at someone if we're both going to be dead very soon (in a wide perspective)? Should I take things seriously? Why hold up an ego?

[Antonkr]

Just as a note, I am not overly religious myself, but I am a Russian Orthodox and wear a cross pretty much every day.

Now, for me at least religion isnt really all that much about god himself, but rather the culture and tradition behind all the beliefs. If you have ever been inside some churches and monistaries in Russia they are absolutely fucking beautiful. Religion to me is a lot about trying to find out what other people believe and think about. Have I been inside a Catholic church besides any conservative Orthodox christian probably telling me Id burn in hell? Yep I have. Would I go to a mosque, a buddhist temple, or attend a hindu ceremony (which goes back like 10,000 years holy dicks)? Fuck yes I would. Besides probably not believing in any of those beliefs I still respect them and want to learn more about them, because they often define cultures. I have nothing against atheism, but if you think you can learn much about a culture or a country without learning about it's religion you are pretty much wrong.

[ColonicAcid]

what the fuck are friends shut up you fucking hippie

friends r wat makes the world go round

they like make a dent in the space time fabric and shit and then we fly around it like a marble or something i dunno

[Rumpelstiltskin3]

I'm an Atheist. I hate the idea of a God, and believe that men themselves are the superior being. We have created civilization, language, writing, technology, and have dominated almost every species known.A man is god to all it creates and destroys.

[Kot]

doubts

I have a bit of trobule since i don't have any religious books near myself, but i'll try to get a quote in English. It's actually something i thought about before (God forgives, but if you die without telling some priest what you did, you fuckd) and i took it as just another hole in Christian beliefs. Also, you know, there might be a reason why all kinds of protestants exist.

tradiiitiooon

Kinda similar, while I really dislike some beliefs, stuff that Bible tells me, I really like how Christianity shaped (Polans) history

I'm an Atheist. I hate the idea of a God, and believe that men themselves are the superior being. We have created civilization, language, writing, technology, and have dominated almost every species known.A man is god to all it creates and destroys.

Humanity FUCK YEAH!

[miggles]

tip your fedora harder kot, i dont think the ladies have noticed your class yet

[nsos]

[deathhoof]

*tips mitre*

[Rumpelstiltskin3]

>"Atheist"
>more like "atheist"

*Greentexting out of 4chan*

[Snake2512]

It's weird how most Christians have heard "god is everywhere" and "heaven is within you", but still talk about "going" to heaven after they die, and god "watching" you, pointing upwards, etc.

I'm not too sure what you mean by your first sentence, but it simply sounds to me like a cultural thing/saying.

I mean the way people talk about things.
The easiest way (and a very popular way) to understand heaven and hell is that they're "some places located somewhere", but (I had to look it up) Jesus himself said that kingdom of God is within you. I think this should be taken very literally, they're inside our mind.

In my opinion the words can be changed from heaven --> enlightenment and hell --> suffering. They're right here, right now. Your choice. If you're not satisfied about your current situation, you're in hell. If you're truly content about your situation, you're enlightened. And suddenly this becomes something very similar to Buddhism. But this is just my view on this, to make sense out of a prophet's words.

I think most of the biggest things you can learn from life can be learned from the simplest facts: I will die. All of this is temporary, this keyboard and this screen are slowly rusting etc.

Those are the words of a certain philosopher I can't remember the name of, so it can't really relate to spirituality if that makes sense.

How is this all of a sudden some incomprehensible spirituality and not similar to religions? These are the simplest observations of our existence, I'm quite sure you can at least partly relate.
And sure, some philosopher must've said that sometime, but the point was that anyone of us can see these facts: No one has lived forever, everything slowly breaks if given enough time, death of my body is extremely certain, losing all my wealth, property and stuff.

What can I make of these simple things? Well, why hoard money to myself if I'm going to lose it? Why be angry at someone if we're both going to be dead very soon (in a wide perspective)? Should I take things seriously? Why hold up an ego?

Well, if we want to hit the real deep ends of philosophical discussion then technically you can only prove that you exist, in the words of Rene Descartes 'I think therefore I am'. Remember, philosophy and religion are still different, the only religion that is inherently a philosophy is Buddhism I believe. AS you said for your first part it is your opinion, I can't really argue with an opinion as you just think this is what the Lord/prophet meant. As for the very last part the answer is very simple, you want wealth because you are human, you feel anger because you are human, you take life seriously because you are human and you maintain some sort of ego because you are..... you guessed it human. Since you are thinking right now, you can prove that you are human.

I'm an Atheist. I hate the idea of a God, and believe that men themselves are the superior being. We have created civilization, language, writing, technology, and have dominated almost every species known.A man is god to all it creates and destroys.

And God created man, to think we are the be all and end all is a very shallow thought. If we want to look at the history of Earth and the universe we are very insignificant.

[Skorvold]

Religion is necessary for low and high functioning societies. A lot of people would do whatever they want if they didn't believe there was an afterlife.

[ColonicAcid]

I don't understand people who say that "it's not really that I believe in god its just that without religion we would be a barbaric species."
Uh? Okay?
So every human doesn't have the self control and the moral right and wrong to know that maybe killing a person is bad not because the big fairy in the sky is going to send him to eternal damnation but because yknow, it's not a good thing to do? As I've said before in this thread, gott is tot. There is no need for a god as a central figure for moral rights because we have a centralised court system. We know that if we kill that person we will go to prison and prison is bad. I'm not being le fedora tipper here since idgaf if you follow a god but saying that we humans at this current day and age require a god is pretty dumbfounded.

[fleure]

I don't understand people who say that "it's not really that I believe in god its just that without religion we would be a barbaric species."
Uh? Okay?
So every human doesn't have the self control and the moral right and wrong to know that maybe killing a person is bad not because the big fairy in the sky is going to send him to eternal damnation but because yknow, it's not a good thing to do? As I've said before in this thread, gott is tot. There is no need for a god as a central figure for moral rights because we have a centralised court system. We know that if we kill that person we will go to prison and prison is bad. I'm not being le fedora tipper here since idgaf if you follow a god but saying that we humans at this current day and age require a god is pretty dumbfounded.

I'm of the opinion that morality is not innate or absolute. I'm sure there have been societies in human history that have decided murder is a-ok and truly believed that, and not lasted very long. A civilization flourishes when it isn't killing the people who make it up or withholding all resources from those who can or do contribute to it. For whatever the source of today's dominant religions and faiths code of altruism and compassion, it's their ethical code that has allowed for civilization to develop. It's "memetic selection" as much as genetic. We are at our point today where we can say killing a person is bad because that idea has kept us going as a civilization and culture for so long.

But as I said, I don't think there is an absolute moral code. What one society thinks is goodness is going to differ to another, and in the pursuit of resources and expansion, that can only lead to one thing. Despite all the talk of turning the other cheek, might makes right.

[kosmos]

Well, if we want to hit the real deep ends of philosophical discussion then technically you can only prove that you exist, in the words of Rene Descartes 'I think therefore I am'. Remember, philosophy and religion are still different, the only religion that is inherently a philosophy is Buddhism I believe. AS you said for your first part it is your opinion, I can't really argue with an opinion as you just think this is what the Lord/prophet meant. As for the very last part the answer is very simple, you want wealth because you are human, you feel anger because you are human, you take life seriously because you are human and you maintain some sort of ego because you are..... you guessed it human. Since you are thinking right now, you can prove that you are human.

I don't know what the technicality here is, but in my opinion: we don't know anything, we can't know anything, we can't prove anything. Religion and philosophy are both a way to look at the world, so I see them inseparable.
And yes, "I" (because I is the ego, only an illusion of myself comprised from the past & future, nothing to do with the present, and in reality, doesn't exist at all in this very moment) want money because I'm human, we have a tendency to grow an ego, but does that mean I should really devote my life to gain money, or realize that it's something only ego wants and will ultimately not satisfy its need? No. To truly realize there's a chance we won't be here tomorrow gives the ultimate freedom of that ego shit. And all that can be seen from a simple fact: everything I see, perishes, if given enough time. This is what I was aiming for.

[Kavaloosh]

why don't we go back to fighting about standing or sitting while wiping your ass like civilized people

[nsos]

my dick long but painfully thin

[miggles]

>"Atheist"
>more like "atheist"

*Greentexting out of 4chan*

[Incomptinence]

Faith/Place Tract: Unlimited Good Works.

[Vekter]

If we can't have this thread without being civil, we won't have it at all.

[Maccus]

Do you expect anyone to be civil on a thread about religion? Look at how we reacted to a thread about the imperial system.

[Perakp]

I like hanging out with religious folks, they are well-mannered, honest, helpful, welcoming, friendly, all round good people.

Except in the army there was this higher ranking dude that decided we had to read our soldier's manual on planting landmines or w/e while the others were doing church-service, so we didn't get special treatment just because we weren't part of the church. What a waste of time.

[miggles]

43 days left until Mythmas!
And I still can't believe how many retards worship an imaginary deity and/or some idiot philosopher that claimed he was one 2000 years ago. I have deduced however that since idiot is higher than retard on the mental disabilities scale, religious people must have been outsmarted. So go ahead and waste your money on stupid gifts that will be returned. Raise your electric bills by attempting to make your house look like the Manhattan skyline at night. Oh, and please gorge on turkey and ham making yourselves fatter and fatter all the while spending time with relatives that you don't contact the rest of the year and couldn't give two shits about besides. As for me, I'll be right here laughing at all of you for doing so.

[Steelpoint]

snip

Someone got a lump of coal for Christmas.

[miggles]

no didnt you read my post its called mythmas and its dumb obviously
it was invented by a guy 20000 years ago and he was dumb cus he said to be nice to people

[Kraso]

ateism

nice meme

I award you the golden fedora of ateism