Banned for reading open source code?

technokek · Post by **technokek** » Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:02 pm #604813

Bottom post of the previous page:

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:11 pm #604915

joooks wrote:funny how these notes are mostly expired anyway

NOOOO NOTES AREN'T A PUNISHMENT
OLD NOTES ARE MARKED SO ADMINS KNOW WHICH ONES TO PRETEND THEY AREN'T USING TO PUNISH YOU NOOOOOO

chocolate_bickie · Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:15 pm

Coco is the Admin Candidate. What did anyone expect? A reasonable person?

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:25 pm #604917

technokek wrote:
Mickyan wrote:People giving far too much credit to ATH as he's far more selective with his bug reports than you might think as can be observed by how often he's arguing on github whenever there's a PR to fix a bug he likes to abuse, and he will routinely keep exploting bugs even after reporting them

I can't say if the ban was warranted as (sadly tbh) tg has historically been pretty lenient over bug abusing but trying to ruin an event is a compelling argument to get rule 1'd
Can you please tell us how he was
trying to ruin an event
i think many in this thread have trouble seeing this, me included.

if its repeated often enough it becomes truth

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:06 pm #604918

athat got owned, that's what you get for looking at code

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:13 pm #604919

IkeTG wrote:athat got owned, that's what you get for looking at code

no he got banned for talking about event maps in the mapping channel, get it right smdh.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:31 pm #604923

Yeah, as much as "Exploit abuse" should generally be the one thing that is a pretty easy and unambiguous ban

1) Why now, for a history of that, when he didn't do that? Is this really an appropriate tipping point for a rule 0 ban?

2) I'm not even kidding, the "Marth from Melee" thing while grabbing people at a distance is better than a lot of events/prayer responses. Funnier than a laughter demon, more entertaining to the player and crew than stuff like John Mongoose's robotics self-antagging or generic tide, etc.

3) Even if it weren't, the Marth note alleges to be about the naming conduct as part of the joke, NOT the exploit use itself. Is this suitable as evidence in favor of the ban's cause and severity?

When I admemed, my policy with serial problem-players was that there was never a need to stretch on a ban; if they were really a problem player, they would generate a suitable situation for an appropriately long/permanent ban without any need to exaggerate or bend, and rarely a need to rule 0 it.

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:38 pm #604924

terranaut wrote:
IkeTG wrote:athat got owned, that's what you get for looking at code
no he got banned for talking about event maps in the mapping channel, get it right smdh.

shut up you are wrong because you stink i am right because my forehead is gigantic

Flatulent · Post by **Flatulent** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:45 pm #604925

STOP REVEALING QGP RECIPES TO PEOPLE ITS SUPPOSED TO BE SEKRIT KNOWLEDGE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WE WRE GOING TO BAN YOU!!!

wait shit wrong server

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:56 pm #604930

After reading the details behind ATHATH's history of "exploits," the justification for a permaban is even worse than it was before.

That note history really isn't that bad at all - nothing a player wouldn't do with a great knowledge of the game - except for the 1-month ban note. Perhaps if he had actually been in the event and exploited it in some way, a ban (of a finite length) would make sense. But his ban was for... chatting about shortcuts through some of the maps in Twitch chat? And giving away the order of the maps in the event in Discord or something?

It's all just very odd to permaban over. I hope the other headmins overturn it, because it'd be a shame to lose ATHATH to something that, to my knowledge at least, didn't really impact anyone negatively.

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:01 pm #604932

Athath tends to be at odds with the manuelmin/codermin elite just because hes an lrp player/coder that tries to draw from the sandbox nature of this game.
SS13 by design is inherently unbalanced and exploitable and so was the event. Yet there are admins and coders that cant accept that.

This isnt even just coming from me, Athath himself told me "we are not the target audience" after he was banned and he has also previously expressed sadness over other individuals within the codebase telling him that they
are trying to patch the game in order to drive away players like him. (edit) (I dont think the context was specifically for patching bugs)

But right now this isn`t about coder politics this is about TG`s administration. Athath is an asset to the TG community, not a detriment, and every second he spends banned is a failure on TG`s administration.

The only question is which headmin will be the first to channel enough testosterone to overrule the ban.

cSeal · Post by **cSeal** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:06 pm #604935

MooCow12 wrote:Athath tends to be at odds with the manuelmin/codermin elite

Opinion immediately discarded

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:12 pm #604936

cSeal wrote:
MooCow12 wrote:Athath tends to be at odds with the manuelmin/codermin elite
Opinion immediately discarded

Point proven.

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:14 pm #604937

Athath actively combs the codebase looking for exploits and bugs which he then uses while playing, no fucking shit certain people involved in coding want to drive players like him away.

Fishimun · Post by **Fishimun** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:27 pm #604938

we need to get a lot more athaths to contribute to the community or maybe you guys just need to code better lol

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:27 pm #604939

technokek wrote: Can you please tell us how he was
trying to ruin an event
i think many in this thread have trouble seeing this, me included.

The event was clearly designed to be a surprise

Even though code diving already goes against the spirit of it nobody would have cared had he not started spoiling it for everyone else

wesoda25 wrote:Athath actively combs the codebase looking for exploits and bugs which he then uses while playing, no fucking shit certain people involved in coding want to drive players like him away.

I know people that burned out because they were afraid whenever they added something fun ath would find a way to abuse it to ruin the game for someone else

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:48 pm #604941

thread made me realize i could have been a piece of shit this whole time and people would still defend me if i ever got in trouble for it

ATHATH · Post by **ATHATH** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:11 pm #604951

Also, since someone brought up that I had been banned during two previous events:
1. The first of those bans was because I had joined in the mindless rushing towards the gatling taser turrets (manned by players) at the sec outpost alongside a dozen or so other people during one of the summer balls. I thought it was an attraction, to be honest.
2. The second of those bans was put in place for a non-event-related reason and just happened to overlap with the talent show, but I was able to still participate in the talent show while banned by writing up some code for a holodisk that'd display some of my statics reading through a Google Translate'd version of the opening of the bee movie script and sending it to CitrusGender, who added it to the code of the talent show's testmerge PR and was able to get it presented during the talent show.

Rohen_Tahir · Post by **Rohen_Tahir** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:11 pm #604952

Armhulen wrote:thread made me realize i could have been a piece of shit this whole time and people would still defend me if i ever got in trouble for it

Yeah.

Fishimun · Post by **Fishimun** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:15 pm #604953

Armhulen wrote:thread made me realize i could have been a piece of shit this whole time and people would still defend me if i ever got in trouble for it

you were the three branches of government this whole time

BorisvcBorison · Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:21 pm

Armhulen wrote:thread made me realize i could have been a piece of shit this whole time and people would still defend me if i ever got in trouble for it

Armhulen did nothing wrong free him

cSeal · Post by **cSeal** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:29 pm #604957

MooCow12 wrote:
cSeal wrote:
MooCow12 wrote:Athath tends to be at odds with the manuelmin/codermin elite
Opinion immediately discarded
Point proven.

and what was your point exactly? something something coders and manuelmins ruining muh lrp by banning people who do shit like threaten to fucking crash the server? you are deranged

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:43 pm #604959

cSeal wrote:
MooCow12 wrote:
cSeal wrote:
MooCow12 wrote:Athath tends to be at odds with the manuelmin/codermin elite
Opinion immediately discarded
Point proven.
and what was your point exactly? something something coders and manuelmins ruining muh lrp by banning people who do shit like threaten to fucking crash the server? you are deranged

Athath was not permabanned for threatening to crash the server? Nor is that anywhere near similar to what he is actually getting punished for?

You literally just nitpicked the only outstanding note he has and claimed that him doing something that severe is a regular occurrence... And then you projected someone else as deranged?

Finding fun combinations to take advantage of the sandbox and creating memorable rounds is in fact appealing to many of the players on the lrp servers and he tends to play lrp anyway.

My point is people like you have a much different view point from the avg player on sybil/terry and this entire thread shows it.

technokek · Post by **technokek** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:50 pm #604961

Mickyan wrote:
technokek wrote: Can you please tell us how he was
trying to ruin an event
i think many in this thread have trouble seeing this, me included.
The event was clearly designed to be a surprise

Even though code diving already goes against the spirit of it nobody would have cared had he not started spoiling it for everyone else

wesoda25 wrote:Athath actively combs the codebase looking for exploits and bugs which he then uses while playing, no fucking shit certain people involved in coding want to drive players like him away.
I know people that burned out because they were afraid whenever they added something fun ath would find a way to abuse it to ruin the game for someone else

Have you actually read what he did? He posted in the mapping channel that there are spoilers in the code in clear text insinuating that someone should fix that. He did not go around spoiling the event.

Is everyone going to ignore that this even was playtested on terry multiple times before Athath even made his posts?

Post by **Misdoubtful** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:20 pm #604963

technokek wrote:this even was playtested on terry multiple times before Athath even made his posts?

Outstanding

Post by **oranges** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:23 pm #604966

who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass

Tohg7. · Post by **Tohg7.** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:26 pm #604968

I do not think the ban athath suffered was in good faith.

BONERMASTER · Post by **BONERMASTER** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:38 pm #604969

I believe this ban hinges on the unspoken point, that ATHATH does not care who or what gets hurt after their revelation of their discoveries. There are established ways to report bugs, but they instead blatantly show them off in live servers for the entire public to witness. I believe that nobody enjoys having their submitted work torn to pieces and put on display, and it is certainly understandable if coders and administrators do not appreciate to be made fools of.

If ATHATH wishes to have the best chances for an appeal, they should focus on disproving this point, and bring up positive contributions and examples of teamwork with other coders. And I believe, it is very important that they pledge to follow established ways to report bugs and exploits, because it is clear that there are a certain number of people that are very unhappy with their work, and signalling that they will continue to disregard their feelings and walk over them to tear apart their code project will only make the administrators more firm in their decision.

With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

cocothegogo · Post by **cocothegogo** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:54 pm #604971

this is the guy who copied my name?

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:55 pm #604972

oranges wrote:who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass

*muffled sounds* I`m looking for a reason for Athath`s ban to be extended to a perma, its gotta be in here guys I swear.

Because whatever he said on twitch certainly wasn`t it.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:56 pm #604973

Admins denied my post requesting the exploit be clarified since according to coconut, the admin who placed the ban, the exploit in question is, supposedly, just the fact that robotics consoles exist and can blow up cyborgs.

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:57 pm

not sure where i stand on this ban maybe we could compromise and athath could agree to stop being a fuckhead and coco could agree to make it not a permaban

also why the fuck are all these randos suddenly cropping up to defend a guy who gets his fun out of deliberately ruining peoples rounds by combing Shithub for exploits you have 8 posts and 6 of them are in here

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:07 pm #604975

Super Aggro Crag wrote: you have 8 posts and 6 of them are in here

(The other 2 were also because of athath actually, I only made this account because of the thread he made about me and a policy issue)

So ya its 100% of them 9/9

cSeal · Post by **cSeal** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:08 pm #604976

MooCow12 wrote:
Athath was not permabanned for threatening to crash the server? Nor is that anywhere near similar to what he is actually getting punished for?

Ath was permabanned for his consistent behavior- that being intentionally diving through the code to find bugs so he could exploit them on servers to the detriment of other people's experience, this being an example of that

MooCow12 wrote:You literally just nitpicked the only outstanding note he has and claimed that him doing something that severe is a regular occurrence... And then you projected someone else as deranged?

I used the most extreme example to outline how stupid it was that you're blaming this ban on the totally very real manuel cabal that's out to kill lrp servers and not his consistent shittery

MooCow12 wrote:Finding fun combinations to take advantage of the sandbox and creating memorable rounds is in fact appealing to many of the players on the lrp servers and he tends to play lrp anyway.

Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.

MooCow12 wrote: My point is people like you have a much different view point from the avg player on sybil/terry and this entire thread shows it.

speaking as someone whos spent all of their time on this codebase playing basically exclusively bagil/sybil I don't agree with your assessment of the average players mentality, I don't even agree that there is an average mentality when it comes to why people enjoy this game or what their play style exactly is. But its pretty disingenuous to imply that YOURS is the most popular

TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch

cSeal · Post by **cSeal** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:10 pm #604977

Super Aggro Crag wrote:not sure where i stand on this ban maybe we could compromise and athath could agree to stop being a fuckhead and coco could agree to make it not a permaban

I could honestly see him being able to appeal this in like 2-6 months if he just finally realizes that rummaging through the code so you can find bugs to exploit is a bad thing tbh

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:15 pm #604979

iamgoofball wrote:Admins denied my post requesting the exploit be clarified since according to coconut, the admin who placed the ban, the exploit in question is, supposedly, just the fact that robotics consoles exist and can blow up cyborgs.

they were behind glass!!!! you werent supposed to use them!!!!!!!!!! DONT TALK ABOUT IT ITS AN EXPLOIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:17 pm #604980

cSeal wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:not sure where i stand on this ban maybe we could compromise and athath could agree to stop being a fuckhead and coco could agree to make it not a permaban
I could honestly see him being able to appeal this in like 2-6 months if he just finally realizes that rummaging through the code so you can find bugs to exploit is a bad thing tbh

do you realise how much of a tool you are trying to tell someone who dives through thousands of lines of code looking for problems to fuck off because you dont realise that they're an asset? you can literally make a shitton of money with what he's doing and he's doing it for FREE

unless you want to count this

2021-03-10 - Named himself "Marth From Super Smash Bros Melee" as a chef to abuse a bug that let CQC grab from long distances.

as a cost and you aren't willing to pay in which case you aren't only a tool but also the least fun person around

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:34 pm #604982

terranaut wrote: Do you realise how much of a tool you are trying to tell someone who dives through thousands of lines of code looking for problems to fuck off because you dont realise that they're an asset? you can literally make a shitton of money with what he's doing and he's doing it for FREE

This is actually the real reason why I`m defending him the most, its really depressing what Athath has been telling me, he does go through a lot of trouble for SS13 and has a notes document consisting of 590 pages and 112,767 words. (At least that`s what his screenshot of the word count said)

Critawakets · Post by **Critawakets** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:38 pm #604983

its funny looking at admins trying to justify coconut because they have to if they even wanna remain in their position since he's a headmin

bastardblaster · Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:42 pm

yo what if you could do this cool thing using base game mechanics to win in a tournament that is explicitly stated to be unfai-
[CENSORED BY ORDER OF THE CCP MOVE ALONG PEOPLE]

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:52 pm #604986

Armhulen wrote:thread made me realize i could have been a piece of shit this whole time and people would still defend me if i ever got in trouble for it

Per my post, my main contention is that even if he's in need of a perma, I would have done it for things like credibly threatening to crash the server; it's unreasonable to point to the history and say "it's for all of that" when he was to all appearances pointing out an obvious (to him) flaw in the design and discussing a map in the appropriate channel.

If a player is a real long-term problem. All admins have to do. Is wait for the player to actually fuck up and prove it.

XivilaiAnaxes · Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:57 pm

Critawakets wrote:its funny looking at admins trying to justify coconut because they have to if they even wanna remain in their position since he's a headmin

Coco's the admin vote so it's not like you measly players get to tell him to fuck off in the next election anyway.

Fishimun · Post by **Fishimun** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:57 pm #604988

BIG BROTHER JUDGED YOU TO BE A THREAT TO THE CODER COMMUNITY PREPARE TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:58 pm

terranaut wrote:
cSeal wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:not sure where i stand on this ban maybe we could compromise and athath could agree to stop being a fuckhead and coco could agree to make it not a permaban
I could honestly see him being able to appeal this in like 2-6 months if he just finally realizes that rummaging through the code so you can find bugs to exploit is a bad thing tbh
do you realise how much of a tool you are trying to tell someone who dives through thousands of lines of code looking for problems to fuck off because you dont realise that they're an asset? you can literally make a shitton of money with what he's doing and he's doing it for FREE

unless you want to count this
2021-03-10 - Named himself "Marth From Super Smash Bros Melee" as a chef to abuse a bug that let CQC grab from long distances.
as a cost and you aren't willing to pay in which case you aren't only a tool but also the least fun person around

if he wants to code dive to find exploits there's nothing stopping him from running a private server to take evidence of the exploits and sending it to the coders instead of fucking over people on live servers. then when it's fixed he can make a funny little youtube video showing the exploit and how it worked and why it behaved the way it did, that could be pretty entertaining! you could like AND subscribe.

Pandarsenic · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:00 pm

I would also like to add, on reviewing the wizard suicide gimmick and the demonic heart recall gimmick, that these both seem cool as hell, wayyyy fucking cooler than the average loot-the-armory or "haha sleeping carp" murderbones.

iamgoofball · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:03 pm

terranaut wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:Admins denied my post requesting the exploit be clarified since according to coconut, the admin who placed the ban, the exploit in question is, supposedly, just the fact that robotics consoles exist and can blow up cyborgs.
they were behind glass!!!! you werent supposed to use them!!!!!!!!!! DONT TALK ABOUT IT ITS AN EXPLOIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They had the tools they needed to fabricate a robotics console right there. They had a circuit imprinter, they had materials, they could of easily made a robotics console, which I would expect them to know how to do given that they are fucking roboticists.

XivilaiAnaxes · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:04 pm

I expected "BRO YOU EXPLOITED TO MURDERBONE" be something actually kind of obnoxious like getting a gun that instakills everyone in sight.

Literally walking around offering faustian deals is honestly funny as hell - fuck off whoever noted that lmao

iamgoofball · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:04 pm

cSeal wrote: Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.

Can you please clarify what exploit ATH abused to deserve this perma?

cSeal wrote:TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch

Unprofessional behavior from a representative of the server. What is wrong with you?

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:11 pm

iamgoofball wrote:
cSeal wrote: Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.
Can you please clarify what exploit ATH abused to deserve this perma?
cSeal wrote:TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch
Unprofessional behavior from a representative of the server. What is wrong with you?

dont start

Rohen_Tahir · Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:28 pm

iamgoofball wrote:
cSeal wrote: Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.
Can you please clarify what exploit ATH abused to deserve this perma?
cSeal wrote:TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch
Unprofessional behavior from a representative of the server. What is wrong with you?

He's a sigma male.

MooCow12 · Post by **MooCow12** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:35 pm #604998

cSeal wrote:Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: who gets his fun out of deliberately ruining peoples rounds by combing Shithub for exploits

The only time he "abused exploits" to "deliberately ruin people`s rounds" were his murderbone gimmicks, Antags are allowed to "ruin people`s rounds" on lrp so...

Demon heart + recall spell was intended behavior. aka fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game and if this is actually a contribution to why he was banned I should be perma`d aswell right now.

Wiz mindswap + suicide was in fact an exploit but how is it advantageous to regular wizard gimmicks? What sort of "edge" did it give him over just using other wizard powers or just summoning an apprentice to kill and dust whoever he mindswaps with?

The chef cqc exploit from what the note says, did not involve him ruining anyone`s round? He did it as a harmless prank and even opted to not use it against an antag that came for him during that round?

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:46 pm #604999

MooCow12 wrote:
cSeal wrote:Exploiting bugs is not a fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game, its exploiting fucking bugs.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: who gets his fun out of deliberately ruining peoples rounds by combing Shithub for exploits
The only time he "abused exploits" to "deliberately ruin people`s rounds" were his murderbone gimmicks, Antags are allowed to "ruin people`s rounds" on lrp so...

Demon heart + recall spell was intended behavior. aka fun combination taking advantage of the sandbox nature of the game and if this is actually a contribution to why he was banned I should be perma`d aswell right now.

Wiz mindswap + suicide was in fact an exploit but how is it advantageous to regular wizard gimmicks? What sort of "edge" did it give him over just using other wizard powers or just summoning an apprentice to kill and dust whoever he mindswaps with?

The chef cqc exploit from what the note says, did not involve him ruining anyone`s round? He did it as a harmless prank and even opted to not use it against an antag that came for him during that round?

the final cope