MAKE THE UK GREAT AGAIN

[Timbrewolf]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36615028

Discuss

[ColonicAcid]

Shit in every conceivable way.

Pound has dropped 10% and will continue to drop until it reaches about 1.15 to the dollar, for a total of 30%. FTSE has lost a couple of hundred billion as well in the past 24 hours. As I've said, me and all the under 30s will now pay for the stupid and shortsighted decision by our country's good old seniors. Franky Boyle put it best, "It's great to see our country united, but unfortunately it's united by hate.". Scapegoats are the name of the game in this campaign.

It's also worth to note that this will now trigger both an Irish Referendum for reunification and also an scottish referendum due to both of these states being wholly Pro-EU.

David Cameron sought to reconcile and renegotiate one union, but in the end, he ended up breaking apart two.


Oh yeah, kinda related, if you wanted to go to a holiday to the UK/Europe and you're from America, now is the time to pay for all the shit. It's dirt cheap and it's going to get cheaper for the next 48 hours until the Bank of England injects high quality capital into the system. Buy all your shit from Amazon.co.uk or start bulk buying forex sterling currency in 24-48 hours to sell later. It'll be worth it.

[Lumbermancer]

Good bye UNITED Kingdom. Scotland goes independent. Northern Ireland joins Ireland. Wales migrates to New Zealand.

[Timbrewolf]

Did I miss another vote on the different members of the UK further splitting up?

If anything the sudden slap in the face of their currency plummeting should be a solid wake-up call that you dumbasses need to work together from now on.

[Lumbermancer]

Scots and Irish voted to stay. And since there's a referendum precedent already...

[ColonicAcid]

They won't happen yet. We've still have to negotiate if anything will actually happen with the EU. For all we know the EU could reform everything and we all go back to being a great big quasi-nation economic state. Or nothing happens as the politicians come to sense with that in this world we can't survive without the European Economic Zone and it's a far better deal to be a part of the EU and be able to veto laws than just being a part of the European Economic Area and having zero say in any laws ala Norway and Switzerland.

But if there is a total split there will be a referendum as ALL areas of Scotland voted in the majority to remain and most of all the areas in Northern Ireland voted to remain in the EU as well.

Wales weirdly voted to leave, even though their entire infrastructure is currently based on EU funding and without it they will become even more of a shithole than it currently is.

[Timbrewolf]

I have a Welsh friend who is completely dumbstruck by the whole thing. It's through them that I mostly learned about the situation at all.

[Lumbermancer]

Well sure the referendum is non-binding. I'm talking hypotheticals.

[Timbrewolf]

So how does the EU react to this?

Probably not going to be super happy when they've been giving funding to support the UK and then suddenly the UK nopes out. Is it can be wars?

[DemonFiren]

War? Hah, no.

Worst case, they'll give benefits to the UK for when they're inevitably trying to Switzerland themselves.
Best case, they tell them to piss off and enjoy their fucked economy in order to discourage other nations from leaving.

[ColonicAcid]

EU markets are crashing, they're drawing a line in the sand currently saying no renegotiation are going to occur and that they appreciate the British people's decision and they will begin preparations for an Article 50.

Now what I really want the EU to do is to just completely block Britain from any sort of deals ever and watch them choke on their own pride. That would be greatly appreciated. Regardless of what occurs, no renegotiation would also force London to stop being the financial capital of Europe and I would wager that we would see a HUGE exodus of business from London into continental Europe.

[XSI]

The EU won't do that. Germany exports a shitton to the UK and we all know who rules the EU

They would never allow their own economy to get fucked just because of EU pride

[DemonFiren]

You know we also export a shitton to everywhere else, right?

[Incomptinence]

rip uk

[Anonmare]

I'm on the fence about Scotland leaving.

On the one hand, no more scots to leech off of our budget. But on the other hand, having a failed state right next to you and messed up aesthetically-pleasing borders. Hmm... Tough call.

[ohnopigeons]

It's amusing but it's not really a big deal. First of all it's just a referendum, not the actual act of leaving itself. EU isn't democratic.

Second of all, even if the UK were to leave, it's not really that big a deal either. Notice how everyone is screaming about how the BRITISH POUND and not the EURO is dropping in price? (Instead of getting 0.67 pounds for my 1 USD, I get 0.73 pounds! Wow, that's an entire 0.06 pounds! Filthy rich!) EU is primarily a fiscal union, and the UK never really played a part of that ANYWAYS. Also the UK doesn't really benefit from infrastructure projects directly seeing as they're on a separate landmass.

Anyways Britain has always been stirring up shit in the EU and if they leave both parties will benefit.

[Incomptinence]

On the one hand, no more scots to leech off of our budget. But on the other hand, having a failed state right next to you and messed up aesthetically-pleasing borders. Hmm... Tough call.

You already have a failed state right next to you, you're standing on it.

[Anonmare]

On the one hand, no more scots to leech off of our budget. But on the other hand, having a failed state right next to you and messed up aesthetically-pleasing borders. Hmm... Tough call.

You already have a failed state right next to you, you're standing on it.

Not anymore, we just left the EU.

[ColonicAcid]

No we didn't.
We won't properly leave the EU, if at all, until a couple of years from now.
A lot of shit has to be negotiated, we're still in the EU for a minimum of 2 years.
Also ohnopigeons please stop saying the things you are saying. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The EU is not a mainly fiscal zone, it's a fucking economic free trade area. That is what keeps it afloat, the Euro is a byproduct of that but it is in no way a necessity that keeps the EU afloat. And as I've previously said, alot of areas in the UK are dependent on direct EU contributions to their infrastructure. Alot of universities receive EU funding. The NHS receives both EU funding and also European experts.

This is extremely far reaching, our entire government also largely takes the EU into account when it's making policies, thus even our policymaking body will need to be changed.

[Incomptinence]

Looks like by EU standards Scotland was a mid liner before brexit.

I'm sure they would love the territory.

[Timbrewolf]

I feel like the UK saw the US getting ready to vote Trump in and said

BETCHA WE CAN FUCK OURSELVES UP FIRST

[ohnopigeons]

I feel like the UK saw the US getting ready to vote Trump in and said

BETCHA WE CAN FUCK OURSELVES UP FIRST

Please, Trump is hardly worse than Clinton. She pretty much has the full support of neoconservative Republicans

[K-64]

Or England and Wales did, at least. The alcoholic countries had the booze-filled insight that maybe alienating ourselves from our closest trade partners may not be a good idea. But of course those votes aren't worth a fart in a bag when England is involved.

[Incomptinence]

When Scotland and north Ireland rejoin the eu it will sort of be like a spanner around a big old nut.

[XSI]

You know we also export a shitton to everywhere else, right?

Only gets better for the export businesses now then
A low value currency is great for exporting businesses, as economics news shows everywhere keep saying, so I assume there is some truth to that

As for the EU, the part everyone hates is the political one. The one that insists on writing the rules for everyone and the one that wants a united European military. Nobody minds the trade stuff, people like that. They don't like being told what to do by an organisation that is neither elected nor has to deal with the consequences of their actions.

That's what people vote over, mostly. Since it's the most obvious part of the EU. Trade is much more subtle

[ohnopigeons]

The alcoholic countries had the booze-filled insight that maybe alienating ourselves from our closest trade partners may not be a good idea.

Please. Leaving the EU does not equate to "alienating yourselves from your closest trade partners". You can still trade with members of the EU without being in the EU. Stop with these false dichotomies.

As for the EU, the part everyone hates is the political one. The one that insists on writing the rules for everyone and the one that wants a united European military. Nobody minds the trade stuff, people like that. They don't like being told what to do by an organisation that is neither elected nor has to deal with the consequences of their actions.

That's what people vote over, mostly. Since it's the most obvious part of the EU. Trade is much more subtle

The political union is the most important part of the EU, since without it the fiscal union is impotent.

[Anonmare]

My mood is literally uncorruptible and there is nothing that will make me think leaving the EU was a bad decision tbqh.
Hopefully the other countries decide to exit as well, we are the first domino that hit the bullseye and will make the whole thing come tumbling down like a house of cards. Checkmate.

[ColonicAcid]

Didn't know that people were so wanting to be sidelined in both historical and economic turns.

What do you think the commonwealth will save you from being the sick man of europe? As I've said, if we leave the EU we will stop being of any financial importance. Fucking Ireland will be more financially important than us.

Stop drinking the Nigel and Boris kool aid, it'll rot your brain, and stop blaming immigrants for all your problems as well, that's the easy way out and I work far harder than majority of my English colleagues and pay my taxes just as well as them.

[Cik]

i have no idea what the end result is going to be, but it was fun to watch

amusing/10

[Anonmare]

I have literally never mentioned immigrants once tbqh fam. I just don't want to be run by a non-democratically elected form of government or to have my taxes used to constantly bail out countries out of financial mistakes of their own design (Greece).
The EU is a tumour, Brexit is the chemo.

[K-64]

I'm just pissed off that despite having every county in a remain majority, we're still going to get dragged down because of the fuckwits down south. It is the perfect demonstration that the whole "Oh, but Scottish votes matter" bullshit that was being peddled during the independence vote was just that; bullshit.

[ohnopigeons]

Didn't know that people were so wanting to be sidelined in both historical and economic turns.

To be honest you've already been sidelined historically, EU or not.

What do you think the commonwealth will save you from being the sick man of europe? As I've said, if we leave the EU we will stop being of any financial importance. Fucking Ireland will be more financially important than us.

Wrong. Your bankers and financial system will continue screwing people and countries around the world for decades if not centuries, EU or not.

[Incomptinence]

XSI you are talking about the european commission right?

Still seems more democratic that the fucking house of lords.

[XSI]

The political union is the most important part of the EU, since without it the fiscal union is impotent.

You what
The trade shit has existed since WW2, the political union shit has existed only a few decades

Specifically, the few decades where things started going very wrong and people grew to hate the EU. It's almost like trade is good and grows friendships, and attempting to force a political union over a large amount of countries who all have different interests and ideals is bad destroys friendships

[XSI]

XSI you are talking about the european commission right?

Still seems more democratic that the fucking house of lords.

That's like saying the sahara desert has more water on it than the moon. Yeah, it's true. But it's still not the ocean it was advertised as and people want to see

--
Double post!

[ohnopigeons]

You what
The trade shit has existed since WW2, the political union shit has existed only a few decades

Specifically, the few decades where things started going very wrong and people grew to hate the EU. It's almost like trade is good and grows friendships, and attempting to force a political union over a large amount of countries who all have different interests and ideals is bad destroys friendships

Exactly. You don't need the EU for trade. The EU was specifically a project to turn European states into a single superstate. In such a group, individual states will have to follow common rules. How do you get them to follow said rules without overriding their political sovereignty? This is why the political union is important.

I suggest reading this article.

[XSI]

The problem I, and many others have with the EU is that it took the trade stuff and is now using that- A thing designed to ensure Europe would never be at war again and for nations to prosper, as a bargaining chip for their own political agendas. (Which coincidentally risks tensions and rising nationalist groups, potentially war if things go bad enough)

We had common rules for the trade stuff, as it was a trade deal. Establish a common standard, common rules, and then every country signed it and thus committed to following these rules. As individual sovereign nations. Without any sort of forced political union. That's what people want to go back to, since it was the thing they always wanted

[Lumbermancer]

The fact is that EU provides a lot of benefits, mostly in taxation and paperwork area. Meaning that trade from outside of EU with EU is more expensive.

[ohnopigeons]

The problem I, and many others have with the EU is that it took the trade stuff and is now using that- A thing designed to ensure Europe would never be at war again and for nations to prosper, as a bargaining chip for their own political agendas. (Which coincidentally risks tensions and rising nationalist groups, potentially war if things go bad enough)

We had common rules for the trade stuff, as it was a trade deal. Establish a common standard, common rules, and then every country signed it and thus committed to following these rules. As individual sovereign nations. Without any sort of forced political union. That's what people want to go back to, since it was the thing they always wanted

Let me reiterate. The EU is not a trade union. It is a fiscal union, and a political union to support that fiscal union.

Establish a common standard, common rules, and then every country signed it and thus committed to following these rules.

This takes too long. Getting unanimous agreement between 18 countries is a huge pain in the ass and would make little progress if any. It's a matter of practicality.

The fact is that EU provides a lot of benefits, mostly in taxation and paperwork area. Meaning that trade from outside of EU with EU is more expensive.

Those benefits are a result of cost savings from standardization and subversion of a country's political sovereignty by the EU. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[ColonicAcid]

Except the UK isn't part of the European Fiscal Compact so your argument is kinda moot.

[XSI]

>This takes too long.

Seriously, it's worked fine for almost 50 years before some dipshit decided they wanted to change how things worked to make a fiscal and political union.
People don't want this, they just want to trade like they always had in the past. And the EU gets flak because it's fucking with people

[ohnopigeons]

Except the UK isn't part of the European Fiscal Compact so your argument is kinda moot.

So why the fuck bother with the EU at all? When UK joined, your PM said that your country would accept the euro after it met a bunch of near-impossible "economic tests", but with the implicit understanding that the UK would one day join the fiscal compact one day in the future.

>This takes too long.

Seriously, it's worked fine for almost 50 years before some dipshit decided they wanted to change how things worked to make a fiscal and political union.
People don't want this, they just want to trade like they always had in the past. And the EU gets flak because it's fucking with people

The EU isn't democratic.

[Anonmare]

Thread Theme:-
[youtube]O2p4N7XrpV8[/youtube]

Rest In Pieces European Union GG no re

[Lumbermancer]

Stop with the sovereignty meme, nobody forced you to join EU. Everything was agreed on beforehand. You agreed on shit, you disagreed and decided to opt out from different shit (Schengen, EMU, AFSJ, Human Rights, Social Chapter).

If you weren't sovereign you wouldn't get to a have referendum.

[Timbrewolf]

He's a big guy

For EU

[ohnopigeons]

Stop with the sovereignty meme, nobody forced you to join EU. Everything was agreed on beforehand. You agreed on shit, you disagreed and decided to opt out from different shit (Schengen, EMU, AFSJ, Human Rights, Social Chapter).

If you weren't sovereign you wouldn't get to a have referendum.

I'm not British/UK in any shape or form.
The political union is far from complete. The EU was based off the premise of "fiscal union first, political union second" which is pretty much the wrong way to go about it, causing all the problems it has caused.
Referendums are a meme, the EU is in no way obligated to follow the referendum's results.

[ColonicAcid]

Except the UK isn't part of the European Fiscal Compact so your argument is kinda moot.

So why the fuck bother with the EU at all? When UK joined, your PM said that your country would accept the euro after it met a bunch of near-impossible "economic tests", but with the implicit understanding that the UK would one day join the fiscal compact one day in the future.

Because in terms of international relations the EU gives us a huge national diplomatic clout to totter around with in addition to all the trade laws that the EEA gives us. Being in the EU allows us to vote for those laws/veto them whilst being just in the EEA would mean we would have to consent and that would be it.

Britains exports absolutely fuck all. Our industry is dead and tourism and financial sectors are the only thing keeping us afloat. Financial sectors that are intrinsically linked with the EU. Suprisingly, the industrial people that did want us to leave were the little exports we have, some vehicle companies such as JCB. That was it. Nigel keeps talking about us corresponding with the Commonwealth again but for what? Will we import fucking hinduism from India? VB and holdens from fucking Australia?

[Lumbermancer]

Referendums are a meme, the EU is in no way obligated to follow the referendum's results.

No one is obliged to anything, that's beside the point. The point is that if UK (the government) wanted, they could instantly cut all ties with EU just like that, defacto leaving the EU. Today.

But they won't do that, not because they are not sovereign, but because it would be destabilizing to UK. And because when they decided to join EU they agreed to work within the system where the political process must be obeyed.

[ohnopigeons]

Because in terms of international relations the EU gives us a huge national diplomatic clout to totter around with in addition to all the trade laws that the EEA gives us. Being in the EU allows us to vote for those laws/veto them whilst being just in the EEA would mean we would have to consent and that would be it.

The EU does not give the UK diplomatic clout, it gives the EU diplomatic clout. It's true that being in the EU would allow the UK to sabotage influence it for its own interests from within but you can't keep that going forever, eventually you'll have to concede on points you don't like. And if you don't like that (which half of you people don't) then don't be in the EU.

[Incomptinence]

Of course not colonic, holden is ceasing car production in Australia next year.

Now what flavour of piss would you like your stubbies in?