Lathe Economy Codenut
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- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
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Lathe Economy Codenut
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/65795
Lathe tax. I... don't see how this helps anything. Honestly. I'm confused, bewildered, and baffled. What purpose does putting a tax on lathe items serve? I just see this leading to science and engineering never upgrading anything(even worse than it is now, somehow), engineering not building anything new, assistants resorting to heavier tiding instead of doing autism projects, etc.
Also the idea that non-mapper/spriter/coder opinions have zero value and don't matter is a shit take, this stuff directly affects us. Even if the guy's a chode. @JFW
Lathe tax. I... don't see how this helps anything. Honestly. I'm confused, bewildered, and baffled. What purpose does putting a tax on lathe items serve? I just see this leading to science and engineering never upgrading anything(even worse than it is now, somehow), engineering not building anything new, assistants resorting to heavier tiding instead of doing autism projects, etc.
Also the idea that non-mapper/spriter/coder opinions have zero value and don't matter is a shit take, this stuff directly affects us. Even if the guy's a chode. @JFW
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Bawhoppennn
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Arcane made a marketing mistake by not calling it a LATHE TITHE
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DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
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<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
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- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I can already see a round where coins get dumped into a blob but we can't afford to bring more welders so we just die. I'm saying this as a good thing btw.
- Mothblocks
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
And what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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- Nabski
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
RIP conveyor belts any anything else you need to bulk print.
Did they change .357 ammo to be single shot per print? If so (Insert tf2 heavy meme).
Did they change .357 ammo to be single shot per print? If so (Insert tf2 heavy meme).
- bastardblaster
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
People don't care about vending machines because there's only like three items in them worth buying that are scattered across different ones. If you want people to use Cargo you have to actually put shit people would WANT in cargo. Adding a way to bypass R&D with exhorbiant amounts of cash would definitely encourage people to want to make money. Imagine being able to buy a crate of AEGs as sec for... ten to fifteen thousand. Or a full medibelt of advanced surgery tools for five thousand. Stuff that would make it feasibly hard to kit out the entirety of your department or the station purely via money, so that R&D isn't useless, but also allowing people to get a jumpstart on things if they're economically minded, or if they get ignored by R&D.
The other alternative is adding cargo exclusive shit, which is what WTs and Thermal Pistols are, but WTs got removed and thermal pistols aren't exactly very desirable. The biggest issue is going to be making shit people want without breaking the game in half. All this is gonna lead to is people just fuckin' letting the station go to shit if it gets blown up and never doing upgrades, along with shit like the CRAB-17 now absolutely decimating the station. Be a nukie and buy 2 or 3 crabs and wipe the crew's entire budget, then they can't print shit or buy shit at cargo.
The other alternative is adding cargo exclusive shit, which is what WTs and Thermal Pistols are, but WTs got removed and thermal pistols aren't exactly very desirable. The biggest issue is going to be making shit people want without breaking the game in half. All this is gonna lead to is people just fuckin' letting the station go to shit if it gets blown up and never doing upgrades, along with shit like the CRAB-17 now absolutely decimating the station. Be a nukie and buy 2 or 3 crabs and wipe the crew's entire budget, then they can't print shit or buy shit at cargo.
- massa
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:20 am
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
TRAADERRRRRRRSSSSS PLAYED BY PEOPLE AND THEY SELL GOOD SHITMothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
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- Location: AI Upload
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
It is one shot per print, yes
1) Like Yulice said, people don't spend money because there's nothing worth buying. The only semi-relevant vendors on the entire station are Medical's various vendors, the botanist's seeds, some of the crap chefs need, the Sec vendor, and the YouTool - which is mostly only important for buying crowbars.Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
2) We could just remove the economy and return to 2014 monkey The economy/paycheck stuff is a system of changes that, as someone who missed all the stepwise implementation, feels like it makes things a lot more involved for little real gain.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
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- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Well, there goes half my clown gimmicks.
I'll miss being building my own autolathe and using it to outfit a butter-on-a-stick stand in the vacant commissary.
I'll miss being building my own autolathe and using it to outfit a butter-on-a-stick stand in the vacant commissary.
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- Itseasytosee2me
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
- Byond Username: Rectification
- Location: Space Station 13
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
AI LAW 2 PRESS THIS BUTTON FOR ME SO I DON'T LOSE MONEY!
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
-
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Uploading Law 4: Losing money is harmful to humans.
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
>mfw the AI deconstructs all lathes and vending machines on the station, along with the cargo and vault consoles
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
- Byond Username: The Wrench
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I’m not sure, but making the game more tedious to play isn’t the way to do it. We’re in a hyper post scarcity future, why the hell would NT charge people for the tools to do their job. This is just going to cuck autism projects and disincentive repairs.Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
- The Wrench
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:06 am
- Byond Username: The Wrench
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
My question is, how does this make the game any better?
Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:32 pm all you godamn do is whine and complain come up with ideas, stop bitching for christs sake.
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I thought economy already was a success because:
1. Money is a fun RP prop
2. Money can be used to buy l33t gear from vending machines
3. People would actively trade money in-game for reasons 1 and 2
Ask not what the game can do for arconomy- ask what the acronomy can do for the game.
1. Money is a fun RP prop
2. Money can be used to buy l33t gear from vending machines
3. People would actively trade money in-game for reasons 1 and 2
Ask not what the game can do for arconomy- ask what the acronomy can do for the game.
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- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Wait doesn't this mean we'll have at least 5 CRABS every roundstart, which now are indestructible by the way, and noone will be able to buy/print anything at 5 minutes into the round?
Last edited by Agux909 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
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- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Like many of the bad PRs, it fails to answer "why?" Okay, you want players to interact with the economy more. You want things to cost money and people to care about money more. Attaching the economy to lathes is a good way to do this. But hold on - why? Why do we need more of an economy in the first place, how does it improve the player experience? It simply adds tedium, like experisci, which I believe no sci players enjoyed.
No one plays SS13 for the economy. It's nice being able to create items that you need for something without having to do boring, menial tasks like collecting 4 bottles of pepperspray and then shipping a bounty cube for an extra 100 credits to buy, what, tools?
No one plays SS13 for the economy. It's nice being able to create items that you need for something without having to do boring, menial tasks like collecting 4 bottles of pepperspray and then shipping a bounty cube for an extra 100 credits to buy, what, tools?
Spoiler:
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
why the fuck SHOULD the economy matter? what sounds remotely fun about that whatsover? why do the coders keep adding more tedium to the game?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
- Itseasytosee2me
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
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- Location: Space Station 13
Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I'm very much of the opinion that if we want a complicated, interesting, and fun economic system then we are going to have to throw out everything money-related and start over.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- Mothblocks
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
To be clear, I don't actually like economy at all, but if you were to "make the economy matter", how do you do it aside from either adding more powerful items to the game, or altering what's free?thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:54 pmwhy the fuck SHOULD the economy matter? what sounds remotely fun about that whatsover? why do the coders keep adding more tedium to the game?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- massa
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Add more items to the game (they can be powerful, combat in this game is fun and is why people play it!), add player controlled traders (all the races could be good for this) who gatekeep access to these things for whatever goal of theirs like killing eachother in an arena or some shit. kind of like friend pirates, some of which can be hostile to eachother?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:27 amTo be clear, I don't actually like economy at all, but if you were to "make the economy matter", how do you do it aside from either adding more powerful items to the game, or altering what's free?thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:54 pmwhy the fuck SHOULD the economy matter? what sounds remotely fun about that whatsover? why do the coders keep adding more tedium to the game?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Power social interactions and tension instead of doing weird numerical cbt
- CMDR_Gungnir
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Lathe Tax is the worst idea I've ever heard. 10 credits per item is, right now, absolutely horrendous, after the change goes through and money values are lowered? That's fucking insane. This will have a drastic effect on the game and not in a good way.
- CDranzer
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Don't care still gonna buy jackboots and military jacket roundstart
- Kendrickorium
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- Archie700
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
viewtopic.php?t=31389&p=635682
Put legitimate complaints on the actual thread
Put legitimate complaints on the actual thread
- Vekter
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I feel like you shouldn't be allowed to complain about this if you don't read the PR/hack.md.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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- Thunder11
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
We're tried improve, several times now. Perhaps it's time to give remove a shot...Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:27 amTo be clear, I don't actually like economy at all, but if you were to "make the economy matter", how do you do it aside from either adding more powerful items to the game, or altering what's free?thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:54 pmwhy the fuck SHOULD the economy matter? what sounds remotely fun about that whatsover? why do the coders keep adding more tedium to the game?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Expand what's available at cargo. I recently tried to purchase a lizard from cargo for a gimmick and they are not purchase-able.Mothblocks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:27 amTo be clear, I don't actually like economy at all, but if you were to "make the economy matter", how do you do it aside from either adding more powerful items to the game, or altering what's free?thomanthewise5404 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:54 pmwhy the fuck SHOULD the economy matter? what sounds remotely fun about that whatsover? why do the coders keep adding more tedium to the game?Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:44 pmAnd what is? We can't just keep adding a bunch of more items in hopes that people who haven't bought them will buy them, and people already don't care about vending machines.Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:37 pm If you wanna make the economy matter, gatekeeping lathes ain’t the way to do it.
Economy should be used to gain sparce but weak items.
Things like batteries, materials, livestock.
TG has a library of literally 1000s to 10,000s of items and cargo barely touches most of them.
Gating items behind cash barriers is the ultimate feel bad experience.
Also I am really worried about how this will interact with upgrades. It takes a lot of materials to upgrade even one job. I suspect if this pr goes through upgrading will become a lot rarer. Even now some departments never get upgraded.
Taxing won't compel players to use economy, they will just avoid it.
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
After playing a few rounds with the PR testmerged, i can confirm that it fucking sucks. The "lathe freedom protests" of 2547 will forever be remembered as a dark day in Nanotrasens history.
- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
If you want people to desire moneys to spend moneys add gachashit machines that dispense obnoxious cosmetics and waifu cards and make them carry over to future rounds.
- iwishforducks
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
We have an entire trading card game, I just don't remember if persistence exists in any capacity or notSuper Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:40 am If you want people to desire moneys to spend moneys add gachashit machines that dispense obnoxious cosmetics and waifu cards and make them carry over to future rounds.
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Tactical_Game_Cards
- Super Aggro Crag
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
NOTArcaneDefence wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:51 pmWe have an entire trading card game, I just don't remember if persistence exists in any capacity or notSuper Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:40 am If you want people to desire moneys to spend moneys add gachashit machines that dispense obnoxious cosmetics and waifu cards and make them carry over to future rounds.
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Tactical_Game_Cards
WAIFUS
- Timberpoes
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Biddle Lathes.
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
Could be fine but components and sheets should be cheaper. It cost me 10 credits to print a single plasma glass sheet from the cargo protolathe as a cargo technician, which is too much. Materials ejected from protolathes don't cost and neither do materials ejected from the ORM. It should probably be made consistent with the price being brought down to something more reasonable like 1 cr per sheet.
Encouraging people to conserve materials is a good idea, though.
Encouraging people to conserve materials is a good idea, though.
- Vekter
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I brought this up to Arcane in Discord last night, they said they'd look into it.cacogen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:23 pm Could be fine but components and sheets should be cheaper. It cost me 10 credits to print a single plasma glass sheet from the cargo protolathe as a cargo technician, which is too much. Materials ejected from protolathes don't cost and neither do materials ejected from the ORM. It should probably be made consistent with the price being brought down to something more reasonable like 1 cr per sheet.
Encouraging people to conserve materials is a good idea, though.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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- Bawhoppennn
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Re: Lathe Economy Codenut
I'm sad nobody liked my pun
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
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